is canon eos c500 cinema camera better than Black magic?

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

balckmagicexperiments

  • Posts: 4
  • Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:23 pm

is canon eos c500 cinema camera better than Black magic?

PostFri Nov 16, 2012 8:15 am

Hi, I dnt know exactly, tell me which is the best either canon eos c500 cinema camera or black magic cinema camera for a low budget independent feature film?
Offline
User avatar

Jason R. Johnston

  • Posts: 1615
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:05 am
  • Location: Harlingen, TX

Re: is canon eos c500 cinema camera better than Black magic?

PostFri Nov 16, 2012 8:29 am

They're both fine. The BMCC has a smaller sensor and can't under or overcrank so much, but after that it's superior to the Canon. The other points are moot because it's also far less expensive. I'm still recommending you get a DP for your movie, though.

And if you have $26,000 to spend on a camera then...I don't really know why you haven't just hired a guy to recommend the right camera for the job. Technically, neither camera is actually available right now so, really, if you have to shoot next month I'd say forget about the camera. Let the DP do that. Just approve the budget. You shouldn't be worried about what camera to shoot on, you should be focusing on the tone of your film. 95% of my demo reel is shot with an EOS T2i/550D with a few $25 halogen shop lights from a home improvement store. Get the best DP you can afford, explain the budget and how you want the film to look and let him do his job. A good DP will make decisions and recommendations based on what's best for the film, not his pocketbook. Have $2000 for the camera/genie budget? We'll get an Arri 3-light open face kit and a HVX200 cuz that's the best you can afford for 4 weeks. Keep the crew fed, follow the 12on/12off unwritten rule and let the people do their jobs.

The fact that you're comparing a $3000 camera to a $25,000 camera says a lot.
Jason R. Johnston
Cinematographer • Director • Editor • Thread Killer • Based in Texas
Fifty Oars Motion Pictures
Offline

Costa Louvieris

  • Posts: 343
  • Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:06 am

Re: is canon eos c500 cinema camera better than Black magic?

PostFri Nov 16, 2012 9:16 am

Jason R. Johnston wrote:They're both fine. The BMCC has a smaller sensor and can't under or overcrank so much, but after that it's superior to the Canon.


That's not only what's better on the Canon C500. You have balanced XLR with phantom power, genlock, sync out, SDI AND HDMI out, ND filters built in, T/C IN & Out, and the ability to control the camera from a tablet to name but a few benefits over the BMCC.
Offline
User avatar

Jason R. Johnston

  • Posts: 1615
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:05 am
  • Location: Harlingen, TX

Re: is canon eos c500 cinema camera better than Black magic?

PostFri Nov 16, 2012 10:12 am

It's a $25,000 camera compared to a $3000 camera. Of course it will have more options. The C500 is completely in another league. But for the OP's need for a low budget solution? The BMCC is more than enough. But, again, that's the DP's call.

Personally, I go sync sound, have no need for genlock, no desire to use HDMI, have a mattebox and a lovely set of ND and other filters, and could care less about control via tablet. But, that's just me. The BMCC seems like a great camera for a controlled narrative set situation, and has been shown to be adept at casual shooting. The C500 seems like a great camera too, one that might make a lovely solution for documentary work; in point of fact: all the reasons you mentioned.

Bang for buck, however? Cinema camera, hands down. Tell Canon to drop the C500 to $5000 and I'll change my mind.
Jason R. Johnston
Cinematographer • Director • Editor • Thread Killer • Based in Texas
Fifty Oars Motion Pictures
Offline

Soeren Mueller

  • Posts: 603
  • Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:21 pm
  • Location: Düsseldorf, Germany

Re: is canon eos c500 cinema camera better than Black magic?

PostFri Nov 16, 2012 10:42 am

Please help me out too! Which one is better: a knife, a fork or a spoon! :twisted:
Offline

jevon99

  • Posts: 27
  • Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:17 pm

Re: is canon eos c500 cinema camera better than Black magic?

PostFri Nov 16, 2012 10:44 am

Soeren Mueller wrote:Please help me out too! Which one is better: a knife, a fork or a spoon! :twisted:


I'd say overall the knife is sharper, but the fork has good points too. The spoon has better storage..
Glen Jevon
www.facebook.com/glenjevon
Offline

Costa Louvieris

  • Posts: 343
  • Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:06 am

Re: is canon eos c500 cinema camera better than Black magic?

PostFri Nov 16, 2012 10:57 am

Jason R. Johnston wrote:It's a $25,000 camera compared to a $3000 camera. Of course it will have more options. The C500 is completely in another league. But for the OP's need for a low budget solution? The BMCC is more than enough. But, again, that's the DP's call.

Personally, I go sync sound, have no need for genlock, no desire to use HDMI, have a mattebox and a lovely set of ND and other filters, and could care less about control via tablet. But, that's just me. The BMCC seems like a great camera for a controlled narrative set situation, and has been shown to be adept at casual shooting. The C500 seems like a great camera too, one that might make a lovely solution for documentary work; in point of fact: all the reasons you mentioned.

Bang for buck, however? Cinema camera, hands down. Tell Canon to drop the C500 to $5000 and I'll change my mind.


Agreed, but there were more advantages that you missed when describing the camera which you forgot to add.
Offline
User avatar

Benton Collins

  • Posts: 638
  • Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:03 am
  • Location: Brooklyn, New York

Re: is canon eos c500 cinema camera better than Black magic?

PostFri Nov 16, 2012 11:16 am

jevon99 wrote:
Soeren Mueller wrote:Please help me out too! Which one is better: a knife, a fork or a spoon! :twisted:


I'd say overall the knife is sharper, but the fork has good points too. The spoon has better storage..


Good one!
Offline
User avatar

Michael Sandiford

  • Posts: 285
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:48 am
  • Location: Hereford

Re: is canon eos c500 cinema camera better than Black magic?

PostFri Nov 16, 2012 12:30 pm

Jason, Sneakers pimps 6 underground for your showreel. Nice choice.
Offline

Bill Rich

  • Posts: 292
  • Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:19 pm
  • Location: Los Angeles, California

Re: is canon eos c500 cinema camera better than Black magic?

PostFri Nov 16, 2012 12:56 pm

Jason.. Nice demo reel! That motorcycle shot was very reminiscent of "Easy Rider".. Well done!
Bill Rich
PhotoJournalist/Editor/Producer
Los Angeles, California
Offline

Michael Phillips

  • Posts: 220
  • Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:09 pm
  • Location: Boston

Re: is canon eos c500 cinema camera better than Black magic?

PostFri Nov 16, 2012 1:15 pm

For audio, I would strongly suggest a dedicated audio recording device and a dedicated person responsible for the audio being recorded. So many independent productions have production value issues directly related to audio quality. Having the camera operator also pay attention to audio levels, quality, etc. while managing focus, composition, movement is a lot. If the film is a documentary, run and gun style, then all that gets a pass for the most part. But for anything scripted and time for multiple takes should have separate and dedicated audio processes.

As far as sync, decades of filmmaking worked great with a slate and no timecode sync reference between the two devices. It still works. If you have timecode sync, LTC or jam-sync, then so much the better. Also, please show some love to your editorial team and slate correctly: http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/ ... ike_a_pro/

Michael
Michael Phillips
Consultant
www.linkedin.com/in/phillipsm
Offline
User avatar

Jason R. Johnston

  • Posts: 1615
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:05 am
  • Location: Harlingen, TX

Re: is canon eos c500 cinema camera better than Black magic?

PostSat Nov 17, 2012 4:04 am

Michael, Bill: thanks! I'm old school... :D
Jason R. Johnston
Cinematographer • Director • Editor • Thread Killer • Based in Texas
Fifty Oars Motion Pictures
Offline

Margus Voll

  • Posts: 1092
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:31 am
  • Location: Tallinn, Estonia

Re: is canon eos c500 cinema camera better than Black magic?

PostSat Nov 17, 2012 8:30 am

Modern NLE also will help syncing a lot.

One could make nice clap out of ipad for decent sync for manual syncing.
Margus Voll, C.S.I.

http://www.iconstudios.eu
margus@iconstudios.eu
Insta / Twitter @margusvoll

Resolve 15 W10 (i9-7940x 14c OC @4.4 Ghz, 2x Titan Pascal, 128 gb ram)
Resolve 12.5.4 OSX
BMC 2,5 K
Pocket camera
Offline
User avatar

Marco Solorio

  • Posts: 118
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:40 am
  • Location: Alamo, California

Re: is canon eos c500 cinema camera better than Black magic?

PostSat Nov 17, 2012 9:27 am

Jason R. Johnston wrote:Personally, I go sync sound, have no need for genlock, no desire to use HDMI, have a mattebox and a lovely set of ND and other filters, and could care less about control via tablet.

...

Tell Canon to drop the C500 to $5000 and I'll change my mind.


100% spot on. Bang-for-buck with no disadvantage to image quality, BMCC for indie film is the clear winner.
Offline

Margus Voll

  • Posts: 1092
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:31 am
  • Location: Tallinn, Estonia

Re: is canon eos c500 cinema camera better than Black magic?

PostSat Nov 17, 2012 12:31 pm

for advert work also with bmc expanded image capability when your budget is relatively small.

this is the field i'm looking now to use it.

syncing with dslr has been simple and bmc does not change that just gives you 70 k camera image
on the dslr price range.
Margus Voll, C.S.I.

http://www.iconstudios.eu
margus@iconstudios.eu
Insta / Twitter @margusvoll

Resolve 15 W10 (i9-7940x 14c OC @4.4 Ghz, 2x Titan Pascal, 128 gb ram)
Resolve 12.5.4 OSX
BMC 2,5 K
Pocket camera
Offline

Theodore Prentice

  • Posts: 591
  • Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:56 pm

Re: is canon eos c500 cinema camera better than Black magic?

PostSat Nov 17, 2012 1:32 pm



Have yet to see anything REMOTELY close to this from a BMCC.... yet

"Indie" film means alot more than cheap cameras, bad lighting and poor music choices.
Offline

zareone

  • Posts: 6
  • Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:19 pm
  • Location: Barcelona

Re: is canon eos c500 cinema camera better than Black magic?

PostSat Nov 17, 2012 1:53 pm

Theodore Prentice wrote:https://vimeo.com/43168838

Have yet to see anything REMOTELY close to this from a BMCC.... yet


Give Jeff Cronenweth a Blackmagic Cinema Camera and the production team this short film had, and I bet the final image quality would not be any worse.
Offline

Margus Voll

  • Posts: 1092
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:31 am
  • Location: Tallinn, Estonia

Re: is canon eos c500 cinema camera better than Black magic?

PostSat Nov 17, 2012 2:18 pm

to me it just seems that is the way you use the tools is important not the tools.

yes good tools make your work simpler and faster etc. but does not change the concept of job
and the way it is done.

this was when dslr film was really fresh it was ranted what can been done.
now i see that on this c500 thing.

also i have seen ton of red alexa stuff that looks bad.
so i'd say it s not the camera but the people that make it happen.

bmc gives it to us the ability to get great material on fraction of the cost of alexa lets say
but it dose not change how you make light setup or other aspect of the production or does that ?
Margus Voll, C.S.I.

http://www.iconstudios.eu
margus@iconstudios.eu
Insta / Twitter @margusvoll

Resolve 15 W10 (i9-7940x 14c OC @4.4 Ghz, 2x Titan Pascal, 128 gb ram)
Resolve 12.5.4 OSX
BMC 2,5 K
Pocket camera
Offline
User avatar

Jason R. Johnston

  • Posts: 1615
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:05 am
  • Location: Harlingen, TX

Re: is canon eos c500 cinema camera better than Black magic?

PostSat Nov 17, 2012 9:21 pm

No, the idea of needing to compose and light the scenes in a movie like a movie does not change, thoigh a crew's approach may differ from set to set; but the fundamental nature of any movie is it must be lit and composed, even dogme95 -- a form of cinema verite but with more rules -- still has a narrative-driven visual language. Lght is light. It's how you control the light that seperates the cinematographers from the "cinematographers," if you catch my meaning.
Last edited by Jason R. Johnston on Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Jason R. Johnston
Cinematographer • Director • Editor • Thread Killer • Based in Texas
Fifty Oars Motion Pictures
Offline

Margus Voll

  • Posts: 1092
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:31 am
  • Location: Tallinn, Estonia

Re: is canon eos c500 cinema camera better than Black magic?

PostSat Nov 17, 2012 9:29 pm

oh yes it makes so big difference
Margus Voll, C.S.I.

http://www.iconstudios.eu
margus@iconstudios.eu
Insta / Twitter @margusvoll

Resolve 15 W10 (i9-7940x 14c OC @4.4 Ghz, 2x Titan Pascal, 128 gb ram)
Resolve 12.5.4 OSX
BMC 2,5 K
Pocket camera

Return to Cinematography

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot], Sean van Berlo, timbutt2 and 44 guests