Why BMCC Design looks like that?

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

arabtornado

  • Posts: 14
  • Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:29 am

Why BMCC Design looks like that?

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 8:43 am

I kike the BMCC image quality, it really has a great capabilities, But it's design looks very unprofessional, it even looks like a toy, it's not just my opinion, it's the opinion of many of my friends and reviewers on internet. I think that it's not that hard to make a better design, I'm a 3D artist and i can make much better design than BMCC has easily. well it's a video camera so it will be wise to make it have a look like one, make it looks a little like Red one or Scarlet X or even Sony VG900. with nice matte black finish to give it a professional look. It will not cost the company much money to do so. so i just wanted to know why BMCC design looks very unprofessional like that?
Offline

Margus Voll

  • Posts: 1092
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:31 am
  • Location: Tallinn, Estonia

Re: Why BMCC Design looks like that?

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 8:47 am

No it is cinema camera not video camera :)
Margus Voll, C.S.I.

http://www.iconstudios.eu
margus@iconstudios.eu
Insta / Twitter @margusvoll

Resolve 15 W10 (i9-7940x 14c OC @4.4 Ghz, 2x Titan Pascal, 128 gb ram)
Resolve 12.5.4 OSX
BMC 2,5 K
Pocket camera
Offline

arabtornado

  • Posts: 14
  • Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:29 am

Re: Why BMCC Design looks like that?

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 9:04 am

Margus Voll wrote:No it is cinema camera not video camera :)


lol i know, what i mean it's not still image camera :)
Offline

Costa Louvieris

  • Posts: 343
  • Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:06 am

Re: Why BMCC Design looks like that?

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 9:04 am

Margus Voll wrote:No it is cinema camera not video camera :)


I'm not sure which cinema cameras you have seen, but none that I know of look like DSLR's or TomTom's!
Offline

arabtornado

  • Posts: 14
  • Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:29 am

Re: Why BMCC Design looks like that?

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 9:25 am

Costa Louvieris wrote:
Margus Voll wrote:No it is cinema camera not video camera :)


I'm not sure which cinema cameras you have seen, but none that I know of look like DSLR's or TomTom's!



You are right, there is no digital cinema camera looks like BMCC, and actually the name of "Cinema Camera" doesn't fit the look of BMCC, actually BMCC looks like a large compact still camera but hopefully people can get 12bit raw image from it.
Offline
User avatar

Jason R. Johnston

  • Posts: 1615
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:05 am
  • Location: Harlingen, TX

Re: Why BMCC Design looks like that?

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 9:26 am

RED cameras look like little metal boxes. The One looks like an engine block or something. The Epic and Scarlet both look like boxes until you add the DSMC sude handle, the it looks exactly like a big DSLR or medium format camera. Those Sony cameras either look like boxes or prosumer DV handycams. Genesis, Weisscam and Grass Valley look like ugly ENG cameras...even the Varicams and most CineAltas. Alexa, Delta Penelope actually look like CINEMA CAMERAS...and even the F35 and F65 sortof do with the cumfy shoulder-mount form factor and the recorder/battery bit on the back that looks like a mag. There's nothing wrong with the design of the BMCC unless you feel the need to impress clients with the biggest cameras and lenses and lights because it's all about presence and not about product.
Jason R. Johnston
Cinematographer • Director • Editor • Thread Killer • Based in Texas
Fifty Oars Motion Pictures
Offline

arabtornado

  • Posts: 14
  • Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:29 am

Re: Why BMCC Design looks like that?

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 9:41 am

Jason R. Johnston wrote:RED cameras look like little metal boxes. The One looks like an engine block or something. The Epic and Scarlet both look like boxes until you add the DSMC sude handle, the it looks exactly like a big DSLR or medium format camera. Those Sony cameras either look like boxes or prosumer DV handycams. Genesis, Weisscam and Grass Valley look like ugly ENG cameras...even the Varicams and most CineAltas. Alexa, Delta Penelope actually look like CINEMA CAMERAS...and even the F35 and F65 sortof do with the cumfy shoulder-mount form factor and the recorder/battery bit on the back that looks like a mag. There's nothing wrong with the design of the BMCC unless you feel the need to impress clients with the biggest cameras and lenses and lights because it's all about presence and not about product.


That's strange that you find the cheap look BMCC looks better that Red cameras and Sony VG900 or FS900U :)
Offline

Soeren Mueller

  • Posts: 603
  • Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:21 pm
  • Location: Düsseldorf, Germany

Re: Why BMCC Design looks like that?

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 9:58 am

Man, some folks have strange kinda problems ;)

It's quite compact.. and while it's not perfect I'd take it over something as fugly as the Sony VG900 any day!

RED always seems a little "steampunk" to me =)
Offline

Andrew Deme

  • Posts: 501
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:52 am

Re: Why BMCC Design looks like that?

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 10:02 am

arabtornado wrote:I kike the BMCC image quality, it really has a great capabilities, But it's design looks very unprofessional, it even looks like a toy, it's not just my opinion, it's the opinion of many of my friends and reviewers on internet. I think that it's not that hard to make a better design, I'm a 3D artist and i can make much better design than BMCC has easily. well it's a video camera so it will be wise to make it have a look like one, make it looks a little like Red one or Scarlet X or even Sony VG900. with nice matte black finish to give it a professional look. It will not cost the company much money to do so. so i just wanted to know why BMCC design looks very unprofessional like that?


I for one would be interested in what your design looks like, can you post it ??
Offline

Ryan McCarvill

  • Posts: 63
  • Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:29 am

Re: Why BMCC Design looks like that?

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 10:10 am

All it is is an acquisition device, you add the components to fit how you want it to work. Some cases I want a camera that looks like a DSLR, some cases I want a camera that is under 2k so I can mount it to a ceiling fan, some cases I want a big professional rig so that the layman will take me seriously so I put it on some rails with a matte box. While the BMCC design isn't ideal for all cases it ticks a lot of boxes and is flexible enough to work in most.
Offline
User avatar

Michael Sandiford

  • Posts: 285
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:48 am
  • Location: Hereford

Re: Why BMCC Design looks like that?

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 10:53 am

I like the design, yes it has an almost toy like quality to it that gives it some charm. Big screen, big record button, job done. As with everything though who cares what it looks like. It's all about the images it produces. I won't be buying one as a fashion statement.
Offline

Margus Voll

  • Posts: 1092
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:31 am
  • Location: Tallinn, Estonia

Re: Why BMCC Design looks like that?

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 11:02 am

put any camera to gage and ad stuff and cables you barely see your camera.

How it looks is sooo important if you are one of those iPhone fellows who go to the meeting
and first thing they do is put their phone to the table all to see :) I would keep mine in the pocket.

One could void warranty and paint camera black if it helps to get better images.

In usability for me it seems really reasonable.

On handheld stuff it is really good to have monitor and recorder integrated.
Margus Voll, C.S.I.

http://www.iconstudios.eu
margus@iconstudios.eu
Insta / Twitter @margusvoll

Resolve 15 W10 (i9-7940x 14c OC @4.4 Ghz, 2x Titan Pascal, 128 gb ram)
Resolve 12.5.4 OSX
BMC 2,5 K
Pocket camera
Offline
User avatar

Christian Schmeer

  • Posts: 904
  • Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:07 pm
  • Location: London, UK

Re: Why BMCC Design looks like that?

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 11:29 am

The BMCC looks quite unusual for a video camera, but it certainly does not look cheap. It's an aluminium unibody design. I'd say it looks more like it was designed to go with iMacs/Mac Pros/MacBook Pros.
Christian Schmeer - DP / Colourist
www.christianschmeer.com
www.vimeo.com/christianschmeer
Offline

Jesuan Soriano

  • Posts: 245
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:17 am

Re: Why BMCC Design looks like that?

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 11:36 am

So what does a camera "a cinema camera"??? if you look at panavision, movecam , arri, etc...they all look diferent (same estructure) but different, so which is most a cinema camera? I would think that red is the most cinema camera look alike.. If you think when you have a cinema camera body, what do you see? a box, then you add the mag , lenses accessories,etc. Red looks like that just with digital mags. So I don't think form factor makes it a better camera or a cinema camera....I don't like BMCC because I like bigger cameras or more ergonomic cameras, but image qualitty and features, are just cinema proof.

Jesus.
Jesus Soriano
Offline

arabtornado

  • Posts: 14
  • Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:29 am

Re: Why BMCC Design looks like that?

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 12:01 pm

Actually the camera design is an important thing, so the client take you seriously. my friend told me that he know one which has a client ho ant to shoot a video so he came with his EOS 5D MKII and the client refused to shoot his video with DSLR Camera
Offline

Margus Voll

  • Posts: 1092
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:31 am
  • Location: Tallinn, Estonia

Re: Why BMCC Design looks like that?

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 12:02 pm

maybe this client was aware of the poor quality of eos and it was not the issue of camera design perhaps ?
Margus Voll, C.S.I.

http://www.iconstudios.eu
margus@iconstudios.eu
Insta / Twitter @margusvoll

Resolve 15 W10 (i9-7940x 14c OC @4.4 Ghz, 2x Titan Pascal, 128 gb ram)
Resolve 12.5.4 OSX
BMC 2,5 K
Pocket camera
Offline

David

  • Posts: 321
  • Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:05 am
  • Location: Ohio.... just marginally better than Kalgoorlie

Re: Why BMCC Design looks like that?

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 12:03 pm

This camera draws people like flies when walking around in public. I've never had so many people ask me about a camera. And no one is commenting on it's unprofessional look, rather they think its some kind of NASA looking deal.
David Daniel
Dilettante
Offline
User avatar

Marcel Beck

  • Posts: 311
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:45 am
  • Location: Dubai, United Arab Emirates

Re: Why BMCC Design looks like that?

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 12:51 pm

This is pointless....

the BMC gives me the feel of the ol' Kodak film cameras

Image

and I'd rather have a metal box with outstanding quality than a flashy gold-plated camera shooting VGA
Marcel Beck
Cinematographer & Producer
follow me: @mxbstudios
Offline

Jesuan Soriano

  • Posts: 245
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:17 am

Re: Why BMCC Design looks like that?

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 2:44 pm

Margus Voll wrote:maybe this client was aware of the poor quality of eos and it was not the issue of camera design perhaps ?


ahahahahahhahahahaha

if the client thinks the BMCC isn't professional by its looks, maybe it's client fault. That's why they are clients, because they don't know quite anything bout these things :)

Jesus
Jesus Soriano
Offline

Margus Voll

  • Posts: 1092
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:31 am
  • Location: Tallinn, Estonia

Re: Why BMCC Design looks like that?

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 2:53 pm

Client should worry about the results not the tools imo :)

You do not go to dentist and ask what model drill they have as you demand model X :D
Margus Voll, C.S.I.

http://www.iconstudios.eu
margus@iconstudios.eu
Insta / Twitter @margusvoll

Resolve 15 W10 (i9-7940x 14c OC @4.4 Ghz, 2x Titan Pascal, 128 gb ram)
Resolve 12.5.4 OSX
BMC 2,5 K
Pocket camera
Offline
User avatar

Michael Sandiford

  • Posts: 285
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:48 am
  • Location: Hereford

Re: Why BMCC Design looks like that?

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 2:55 pm

Clients constantly get hung up on the word professional. They and many industry pros seem to think it means copying everyone else. Not getting the job done to a satisfactory result.
Offline

Margus Voll

  • Posts: 1092
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:31 am
  • Location: Tallinn, Estonia

Re: Why BMCC Design looks like that?

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 3:02 pm

some how it shows that if someone offering services can be affected by client comments is not so sure about
their services also and its quality.

client should concern only on result not what you use and how you use it.
some cases it seems like trade secret to me that you probably will not reveal.

maybe some client will come to set and say: "oh you have this ugly old-school camera is it any good?"
lets say we had red one on the set.

this really does not matter if the camera would be pink i think :)
Margus Voll, C.S.I.

http://www.iconstudios.eu
margus@iconstudios.eu
Insta / Twitter @margusvoll

Resolve 15 W10 (i9-7940x 14c OC @4.4 Ghz, 2x Titan Pascal, 128 gb ram)
Resolve 12.5.4 OSX
BMC 2,5 K
Pocket camera
Offline
User avatar

Luke Armstrong

  • Posts: 273
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:43 am
  • Location: London

Re: Why BMCC Design looks like that?

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 3:12 pm

In all seriousness, when you get the BMCC on a set of rails with a follow focus and a mattebox, no one is going to be saying it doesn't look like a cinema camera.

It looks just like the SI-2K mini, and SI-2K's were used on Slumdog Millionaire & many of Danny Boyle's films. Good enough for him (and it looks great). http://www.siliconimaging.com/DigitalCi ... tures.html

Also, an advantage of its unique look as that no one knows what it is! You can go to places where larger cameras are frowned upon and shoot 2k Raw without any hassle!
Luke Armstrong - Digital Compositor
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4274789/
Offline

Eric Santiago

  • Posts: 520
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Why BMCC Design looks like that?

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 4:07 pm

Michael Sandiford wrote:Clients constantly get hung up on the word professional. They and many industry pros seem to think it means copying everyone else. Not getting the job done to a satisfactory result.


The smart professionals sell their creativity and maybe even charisma.
If you have to convince a client that you use Lowell lights and x gear and x deodorant then you've lost the edge.
Offline
User avatar

sean mclennan

  • Posts: 1434
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:28 pm
  • Location: Toronto, ON

Re: Why BMCC Design looks like that?

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 4:19 pm

The shape of the body has a lot more to do than just ergonomics and aesthetics. Just because it doesn't share the same shape and an old VHS camcorder doesn't mean it's a poor design.

At the price point the BMCC lives, I would say it's mostly aimed at DSLR shooters who have "discovered" cinematic production who are looking to upgrade from their DSLRs. (more like stumbled :mrgreen: ) I think that's a fair assumption.

DSLR systems are basically just a capture device. That's it. A sensor that can render a beautiful image and that's about it. Everything you might need/want for a complete system is something you need to add. Its a modular system. Traditional video devices, like the big Sony's, are designed to have everything you need in one body. 300 connectors, built in NDs, a menu with 100 options, viewfinders, massive battery packs, even the shoulder pad is built in! They are very different targets.

Black Magic has stated that their goal was to make a camera that produced the best image possible they could at that price point. So the obvious design choice is modular. Many DSLR shooters already have off camera audio, monitors, rails, etc. So make the best capture device and they can hit the price point they want. I think they hit that sweet spot perfectly!

The BMCC has the same shape and modular workflow as a DSLR. In comparison, RED is also a brick (and modular)...EOS C300 is, well I don't know how you would call it. It's definitely NOT traditional, but it houses many, many connections. Both of those seem to work quite well.

Yes, I can jump into 3DS and carve up a bitching looking design, but what does it do for ergonomics? Usabilty? Heat dissipation? 3rd party add-ons? COST? There are many factors to the design.

Lastly, if your clients are more concerned with your gear than your skill, then you haven't done a good enough job selling your expertise. Your clients should be confident in your ability to deliver a professional product. Henri Cartier-Bresson did a shoot for Vogue with a disposable camera. Shot 12 frames and handed the camera to the clients and said we're done. The photo ran on the cover. You should always be selling yourself, not your gear.
Offline
User avatar

Jason R. Johnston

  • Posts: 1615
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:05 am
  • Location: Harlingen, TX

Re: Why BMCC Design looks like that?

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 6:58 pm

So, yeah: if "cheap" is how you, arabtornado, are defining the lovely quasi-retro machined curves of the BMCC, so be it; I must like cheap-looking cameras, then. Not only do I prefer the body styling over the RED stuff but I also prefer the image quality of the BMCC. The look of the camera body doesn't mean anything. I can do many things with a DSLR and I sell that ability to my clients. When I show up with a T2i and Flolights the only questions I get are related to photography. I have never experienced doubt on a set from anyone based on the gear I use. Once I get my BMCC the technical image quality will improve and serve to give me more options as an artist (and also businessman) and I'll be able to sell that quality, too. Besides, the camera disappears into the rest of the rig, anyway. If a client had a machined-aluminum phobia they'd never see it. If you kids don't like what BMD is doing, go make your own camera and design it any way you want.
Jason R. Johnston
Cinematographer • Director • Editor • Thread Killer • Based in Texas
Fifty Oars Motion Pictures
Offline

David

  • Posts: 321
  • Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:05 am
  • Location: Ohio.... just marginally better than Kalgoorlie

Re: Why BMCC Design looks like that?

PostFri Nov 23, 2012 7:33 pm

Yep, it's an extremely design conscious camera. It fits perfectly with current design aesthetics and the brushed aluminum look means it will not date quickly. Anyone who might have a problem with it's appearance falls into the same category as those that thought the imac could never be used in a professional setting.... and believe me, there were plenty that said that.
David Daniel
Dilettante
Offline
User avatar

Frank Glencairn

  • Posts: 1662
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:07 am
  • Location: Germany

Re: Why BMCC Design looks like that?

PostSun Nov 25, 2012 9:36 am

You can always spray paint it flat black.
Everything flat black on a set, looks instantly pro 8-)
http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/

I told you so :-)
Offline
User avatar

Nikolay Smirnov

  • Posts: 292
  • Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:34 pm
  • Location: Moscow

Re: Why BMCC Design looks like that?

PostThu Nov 29, 2012 9:19 am

Honestly I think it would never caught so much attention with a simple "box camera" design. It was a smart move from BMD to release something to catch an eye.

I thought it was a medium format photo camera when I first saw it. Which I highly like lately.
DoP/Colorist
FADE Post-production
Offline

Adonis

  • Posts: 16
  • Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:24 am

Re: Why BMCC Design looks like that?

PostThu Nov 29, 2012 9:41 am

But things are looking quite good. This run of cameras next week will test the sensor supplier's ability to build sensors without contamination and to also be able to test them correctly so we only get good sensors. If that's all ok then we look like we will be able to move back into production.!
--Adonis
www.lovemyhome.net/business

Return to Cinematography

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Cliff Louiswelle, Mark Wyatt and 77 guests