Clarification of Anamorphic on the Alexa Plus 4:3

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rick.lang

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Clarification of Anamorphic on the Alexa Plus 4:3

PostSat Dec 15, 2012 2:27 am

"Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:44 am

rick.lang wrote:
jevon99 wrote:
4:3 feature request is so you can use anamorphic lenses without cropping..
Anamorphic lenses squeeze the image by a factor of two, thus projecting a 1.195:1 aspect ratio image onto the sensor. When using sensors that are natively 16:9 or even wider, it is necessary to crop the sides, resulting in a much smaller used sensor area and a different angle of view for the lens.



That's not my understanding or how I'd explain it. The anamorphic lens or adapter has a front element or group that acts like a wide angle lens in the horizontal plane, but a normal lens in the vertical plane. So it squeezes the image horizontally giving for example twice the horizontal field of view but a normal vertical field of view. You can use a projector with an anamorphic lens that reverses the effect so on the cinema screen you see a much wider field of view than normally. Or you can expand the squeeze digitally in Resolve or your NLE so your rendered video has the wider field.

If you put a 2x anamorphic on a 4:3 sensor, you end up with a 2.66:1 aspect ratio. If you want to render out to a 2.39:1 widescreen format, yes, you would crop the sides. If you have a 16:9 sensor and a 1.35x anamorphic, then it will expand to a 2.4:1 aspect ratio. Older anamorphics are almost always 2x, hence the great desire to use 4:3 aspect ratio on the sensor. SLR Magic plans to make a 1.35x (or 1.33x) anamorphic designed to be used on 16:9 HD sensors like the BMCC.
Rick Lang
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I quite literally copied and pasted my paragraph explaining it from the Arri Alexa brochure. I'll let you tell them they're wrong then lol
Glen Jevon
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Thanks for explaining your comment was in regards to the Arri Alexa. I think I found the same brochure in this article below. I agree with your original comment as it applied to Arri. But not everyone does that squeezed 1.195:1 image on the sensor, including Arri.

Read a little further and you'll see that the new Arri isn't using that aspect ratio (which made perfect sense if they were only trying to support eventual viewing as 2.39:1 widescreen). The new Arri Alexa Plus 4:3 makes complete use of the optional 4:3 sensor area and then of course could be used to support up to 2.66:1 aspect ratio presumably.
http://www.arrimedia.com/news/view/27/a ... anamorphic

Cheers.
Rick Lang
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Guisphoto

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Re: Clarification of Anamorphic on the Alexa Plus 4:3

PostSat Dec 15, 2012 5:22 pm

2,66:1 is a nice aspect ratio. I think the "cinema anamorphic look" is not only the aspect ratio. Personally, I prefer 2x anamorphic instead 1.3 or 1.5x. Only the 2x (front block, not rear) can produce the oval bokeh and that extreme (and fantastic) deep of field. 1.3-1.5x has all the disadvantages of an 2x anamorphic lens (minimum focus distance, focus precision...) but only one advantage: The 2.4:1 (2.6:1 with a 1.5x like Iscorama) aspect ratio on a 16:9 sensor. I don't think a still photography lens with an anamorphic glass (I think that is the SLR Magic) can bite cinema anamorphic lenses like vintage Lomo Round fronts. Of course, they have not any chance if you compare them with new anamorphics lenses like Hawk. Anamorphic lenses are complex because the focus is not in the spherical lens, it is in the anamorphic block. Maybe it will be cheaper but, apart of the aspect ratio, what other advantage has a 1.3x lens instead a good cinema spherical lens?. Maybe I am in a wrong and SLR Magic anamorphic lens has a good anamorphic block but... think about prices. The cheapest cinema anamorphic lens could be around $3000 (Lomo 30 years old lens) to $30.000 for a new Elite Optica. Take a look at this spanish guys who are developing a very cool anamorphic lens set
http://www.fdtimes.com/2012/04/29/scorp ... me-lenses/

Please BM, we need a 4:3 cinema mode!!!. Do you think that could be possible Rick?
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Alberto
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Jason R. Johnston

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Re: Clarification of Anamorphic on the Alexa Plus 4:3

PostSat Dec 15, 2012 6:22 pm

What is SLR Magic trying to do? Make a proper anamorphic lens or make a screw on/clamp on anamorphic attachment for an aspherical lens? There's already a few of those; I want a proper lens I can own.
Jason R. Johnston
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Re: Clarification of Anamorphic on the Alexa Plus 4:3

PostSun Dec 16, 2012 1:31 am

Jason R. Johnston wrote:What is SLR Magic trying to do? Make a proper anamorphic lens or make a screw on/clamp on anamorphic attachment for an aspherical lens? There's already a few of those; I want a proper lens I can own.


I agree a true anamorphic lens is the best solution but new anamorphic lenses seem to be beyond the price range where most users can afford to own a set of anamorphic lenses.

SLR Magic has said they want to develop one modern anamorphic adapter, so it is only the front assembly, not an anamorphic lens. They have said on Personal View, that they only want to develop one adapter at least initially and I am not sure what it will be as they have considered 1.33x, 1.35x, 1.5x, and 2x squeeze.

They made that choice to keep the price low and to bring anamorphic capabilities to a wide user base. They haven't announced a price but I believe they want to stay close to $1,000-$1,500 and be significantly less than the $3,000 prices for the old discontinued anamorphic lenses that are sought today. They are not intending to compete with the modern true anamorphic lenses such as Arri/Zeiss, Hawk, etc.

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Re: Clarification of Anamorphic on the Alexa Plus 4:3

PostSun Dec 16, 2012 2:04 am

Guisphoto wrote:... think about prices. The cheapest cinema anamorphic lens could be around $3000 (Lomo 30 years old lens) to $30.000 for a new Elite Optica. Take a look at this spanish guys who are developing a very cool anamorphic lens set
http://www.fdtimes.com/2012/04/29/scorp ... me-lenses/

Please BM, we need a 4:3 cinema mode!!!. Do you think that could be possible Rick?
Cheers
Alberto


There are other threads here that have discussed the desire for 4:3 sensor recording for use with anamorphic lenses or adapters. I wasn't intending to debate those when I posted that the new Arri Alexa Plus 4:3 has moved to support that format as well with of course the expectation it will be paired with an Arri/Zeiss 2x anamorphic lens giving your delivered products the 2.66:1 aspect ratio you like without cropping your image.

Again, there are threads here regarding 4:3 on the BMCC. In a nutshell, BMD hasn't previously indicated that there's any possibility of it coming on the current BMCC. Speculation ranges from a firmware upgrade to support it or a future version of the BMCC. Only time will tell. I think the great hope for 4:3 was that BMD would implement it using much more of the real estate on the sensor, I.e. a CinemaDNG image that would debayer to at least 2400x1800 compared to the 16:9 debayered image size of 2400x1350. That is 33% more photosites to manage and may not be supported for recording on many current single SSDs in the camera.

At the other extreme, there is the hope that much more of the sensor could be used than the current active area of 2432x1366 such as 2592x1944. I cannot recall the actual physical size of the base sensor but those numbers might be illustrative. Again, that may be too much data to record in raw, too much data for the current processors to process as raw or converted to ProRes or DNxHD, too much heat generated internally, and other engineering problems that can't be overcome at this time.

I certainly think it may be supported in the future but in my opinion not with the current BMCC.

As for those Spanish guys' planned anamorphic lenses, they sound superb but I wasn't able to find when they would be available nor at what price. Sounds like they could be betting the company on producing so many matched anamorphic lenses but good luck to them. Post if you know more recent information.

"Scorpiolens Anamorphic Prime Lenses
4/29/12 | by Jon Fauer


The Servicevision Booth was directly across from ours at NAB. Managing Director and Cinematographer Andres Valles surprised me on opening day with a preview of a set of 13 Scorpiolens anamorphic primes to be introduced at IBC in September. He also introduced me to the lens designer, physicist and optical engineer Cristina Alcaide."

Rick Lang
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Rick Lang

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