What software for BMC @ 2.5K

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Gavin Benjamin

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What software for BMC @ 2.5K

PostMon Dec 17, 2012 9:47 pm

Hey guys just wandering, for those who edit at 2.5k with the BMC what software are you goes using. I am avid editor but the lack of 2k+ in avid has me looking at other software.
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baforest

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Re: What software for BMC @ 2.5K

PostMon Dec 17, 2012 9:52 pm

BMCC comes with Resolve. You can get the lite version and start practicing with it now if you wish.
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: What software for BMC @ 2.5K

PostMon Dec 17, 2012 9:53 pm

How about that horrible Final Cut x or the even more horrid PREMIER?
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: What software for BMC @ 2.5K

PostMon Dec 17, 2012 9:54 pm

baforest wrote:BMCC comes with Resolve. You can get the lite version and start practicing with it now if you wish.


resolve isn't really an editor
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Gavin Benjamin

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Re: What software for BMC @ 2.5K

PostMon Dec 17, 2012 10:23 pm

baforest wrote:BMCC comes with Resolve. You can get the lite version and start practicing with it now if you wish.


Thanks, I know about resolve and i curerently use it for my 1080P projects how ever i would rather just edit in 2.5K rather then do the conform in Avid DS as most people prolly do whom use avid. I just wanted to know what would be the best workflow for the BMC
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João Gomes

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Re: What software for BMC @ 2.5K

PostTue Dec 18, 2012 4:26 am

Costa Louvieris wrote:How about that horrible Final Cut x or the even more horrid PREMIER?


Why is Premiere horrid?
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PaulDelVecchio

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Re: What software for BMC @ 2.5K

PostTue Dec 18, 2012 5:17 am

You're going to have a much easier time converting the BMCC footage to proxies, editing those, then relinking when you get back into Resolve. Even Premiere won't perform well with Cinema DNG files at 2.5K. I really don't think it's the best idea to edit that stuff natively.

Bring all your files into Resolve and create proxies in DNxHD or ProRes and bring those into your editing app. That's the best way and as far as I'm concerned, at the moment, it's the only real way to work unless you have 5 years to finish a 10 minute edit.
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Re: What software for BMC @ 2.5K

PostTue Dec 18, 2012 5:31 am

Without having tried it myself (due to the lack of camera and the full version of Resolve which supports greater resolutions than 1080p)... I think that the process would be round-tripping from Resolve to MC initially (with 1080p renders), editing with them then sending the .AAF back to Resolve which you can then reconform to a 2.5K sequence and the RAW media. Having done so, you could then render at 2.5K.

I recently worked on a 3K .R3D project that was cut in Avid using Resolve generated 1080p ProRes clips, linked to via AMA. This sequence was amazingly simple to bring back into Resolve and relink to the Red media. Unfortunately I couldn't get a final render that was greater than 1080p due to the Resolve Lite limitation.
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Gavin Benjamin

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Re: What software for BMC @ 2.5K

PostTue Dec 18, 2012 5:51 am

Keke Marc wrote:Without having tried it myself (due to the lack of camera and the full version of Resolve which supports greater resolutions than 1080p)... I think that the process would be round-tripping from Resolve to MC initially (with 1080p renders), editing with them then sending the .AAF back to Resolve which you can then reconform to a 2.5K sequence and the RAW media. Having done so, you could then render at 2.5K.

I recently worked on a 3K .R3D project that was cut in Avid using Resolve generated 1080p ProRes clips, linked to via AMA. This sequence was amazingly simple to bring back into Resolve and relink to the Red media. Unfortunately I couldn't get a final render that was greater than 1080p due to the Resolve Lite limitation.


so nasically you would need to start with your footage in resolve export quicktime proxies into avid, edit then aaf back to resolve conform, grade then export 2.5K ?
G.

Keke Marc

Re: What software for BMC @ 2.5K

PostTue Dec 18, 2012 6:03 am

That's it.
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: What software for BMC @ 2.5K

PostTue Dec 18, 2012 9:21 am

João Gomes wrote:
Costa Louvieris wrote:How about that horrible Final Cut x or the even more horrid PREMIER?


Why is Premiere horrid?


It's just always felt cheap and fisher price like. Something people starting out would use and not something professionals would consider. I haven't seen ANY Premier post facilities in the UK. Most run off Avid with on or two Final Cut stations if you're lucky.
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PaulDelVecchio

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Re: What software for BMC @ 2.5K

PostTue Dec 18, 2012 2:37 pm

Costa Louvieris wrote:It's just always felt cheap and fisher price like. Something people starting out would use and not something professionals would consider. I haven't seen ANY Premier post facilities in the UK. Most run off Avid with on or two Final Cut stations if you're lucky.


It's all a matter of taste. You ask someone who started in FCP and they will think Avid looks and feels old. I had a friend who knew nothing about editing say that he thought Avid looks more kike something from the DOS days.

They're all good, even FCPX, as they all allow you to do pretty much the same stuff. You just have to be aware of certain workflow differences and pitfalls.
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: What software for BMC @ 2.5K

PostTue Dec 18, 2012 4:48 pm

PaulDelVecchio wrote:
Costa Louvieris wrote:It's just always felt cheap and fisher price like. Something people starting out would use and not something professionals would consider. I haven't seen ANY Premier post facilities in the UK. Most run off Avid with on or two Final Cut stations if you're lucky.


It's all a matter of taste. You ask someone who started in FCP and they will think Avid looks and feels old. I had a friend who knew nothing about editing say that he thought Avid looks more kike something from the DOS days.

They're all good, even FCPX, as they all allow you to do pretty much the same stuff. You just have to be aware of certain workflow differences and pitfalls.


Problem with Avid is that they are stuck in the past. They don't do well with change as is evidenced with their archaic pricing structure, their inability to accept 2k and 4k workflows and stupidly old UI. However, as they rarely change more than a few things per update of major importance you get more stability and better optimisations... swings in roundabouts really.
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Gavin Benjamin

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Re: What software for BMC @ 2.5K

PostTue Dec 18, 2012 7:25 pm

Costa Louvieris wrote:
PaulDelVecchio wrote:
Costa Louvieris wrote:It's just always felt cheap and fisher price like. Something people starting out would use and not something professionals would consider. I haven't seen ANY Premier post facilities in the UK. Most run off Avid with on or two Final Cut stations if you're lucky.


It's all a matter of taste. You ask someone who started in FCP and they will think Avid looks and feels old. I had a friend who knew nothing about editing say that he thought Avid looks more kike something from the DOS days.

They're all good, even FCPX, as they all allow you to do pretty much the same stuff. You just have to be aware of certain workflow differences and pitfalls.


Problem with Avid is that they are stuck in the past. They don't do well with change as is evidenced with their archaic pricing structure, their inability to accept 2k and 4k workflows and stupidly old UI. However, as they rarely change more than a few things per update of major importance you get more stability and better optimisations... swings in roundabouts really.



Yes i had stuck with avid for 10 years now but ill be honest if i dont see any change soon I WILL BE GONE... at least until they are more media frendly in the way of raster and plug-ins go. support for plugins is dwindling i was really suprised bdm even had dnx in the BMC.

Hey is there any 2.5k edited and graded work on the net i have been looking havent really seen anything too much like a finished project in 2k if any has send or post a link please. im getting antsy as most just sitting here waiting for this camera....
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Keith Stark

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Re: What software for BMC @ 2.5K

PostTue Dec 18, 2012 11:21 pm

Here goes, first post..I might get some fruit thrown at me, but here goes.....

Vegas......"It's all a matter of taste"

Here was my test:

I'm using Cineform to convert the raw footage to cineform AVIs then I drag and drop straight into Vegas. I've done this with scarlet and epic footage also, but never edited a red project. Cineform works really nice (and fast) in that you can modify the main 'look' parameters in their gui and they will update in the editor, no round tripping required. This is similar to the Red interface that Vegas has, probably better. I think it can be a benefit to any NLE/workflow. I can also use After effects or DaVinci to Cineform if that works better for a given situation.

I use the Avid codecs for intermediates currently, but for BMD and beyond that won't cut it. I'm not aware of a DNXHD mode that will go beyond 1080p that I can use, not having Avid.

When the canons first came out and I was still on Vegas 8, I had a nice system of creating proxies and storing them in a parallel folder. I just had to write a simple utility to rename file extensions. When I was ready to do a final render I just swapped the folder names and re-opened the project. I'll be doing a similar process.

I'm doing this below on my i5 Asus laptop (my main machine is tied up doing scary things right now)
Note that I can render out to cineform at the full 2400x1350 resolution. (see image)
Vegas will also render out to DPX sequences, but I not sure how well it conforms as I can only check it in softimage.

Hope this helps.
Attachments
bmd-veg-cineform.JPG
shot of 2400x1350 project settings
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Keith Stark

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Re: What software for BMC @ 2.5K

PostTue Dec 18, 2012 11:57 pm

Edit...
DPX out of vegas import into AE...
Thx, K
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João Gomes

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Re: What software for BMC @ 2.5K

PostWed Dec 19, 2012 2:59 am

Costa Louvieris wrote:
João Gomes wrote:
Costa Louvieris wrote:How about that horrible Final Cut x or the even more horrid PREMIER?


Why is Premiere horrid?


It's just always felt cheap and fisher price like. Something people starting out would use and not something professionals would consider. I haven't seen ANY Premier post facilities in the UK. Most run off Avid with on or two Final Cut stations if you're lucky.


I´ve been using forever and it has always worked fine. Is there something that it doesn´t do compared to others?

I would call "horrid" an NLE not having native support for HDSLR footage. It´s a matter of taste and not functionality.
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: What software for BMC @ 2.5K

PostWed Dec 19, 2012 9:11 am

João Gomes wrote:
I would call "horrid" an NLE not having native support for HDSLR footage. It´s a matter of taste and not functionality.


To be honest it is preference, but Avid is just functionally better in my opinion. Avid were the first to the scene, arriving a full 2 years before Premiere and by that time Avid had invented the more intuitive system that was leagues ahead of the competition at the time. I have to confess, I have not tried Premiere since the mid 90's where I found it to be buggy, unruly and cheap.

As for what Avid can do that Premiere cannot? I do not know as I have stated I have not tried Premiere since the mid 90's. However I recently wanted to purchase the Adobe Creative Cloud for AE and Premiere, so I watched some videos on the Adobe website and found, to my surprise, that Premiere didn't look any less cheap than it did way back when. (although I still really want AE).

I know Avid quite well now. I know how to create titles, chroma key, colour correct, Animatte to get rid of unwanted objects in the scene, to do simple and complex edits and cross cuts. I just know it and its easy to me, so I may be biased. However, I recently taught my friend how to use Avid (he previously used a buggy premiere when he was at college) and he managed to pick everything I know up in a month. He finds it so easy and tells me he wouldn't use any other software now. In fact we both dabbled in a trial version of FCX and we both HATED it. It just didn't... feel right.

I guess once you go Avid, you dont go back. The price though... the price:(
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Gavin Benjamin

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Re: What software for BMC @ 2.5K

PostWed Dec 19, 2012 10:01 am

Costa Louvieris wrote:
João Gomes wrote:
I would call "horrid" an NLE not having native support for HDSLR footage. It´s a matter of taste and not functionality.


To be honest it is preference, but Avid is just functionally better in my opinion. Avid were the first to the scene, arriving a full 2 years before Premiere and by that time Avid had invented the more intuitive system that was leagues ahead of the competition at the time. I have to confess, I have not tried Premiere since the mid 90's where I found it to be buggy, unruly and cheap.

As for what Avid can do that Premiere cannot? I do not know as I have stated I have not tried Premiere since the mid 90's. However I recently wanted to purchase the Adobe Creative Cloud for AE and Premiere, so I watched some videos on the Adobe website and found, to my surprise, that Premiere didn't look any less cheap than it did way back when. (although I still really want AE).

I know Avid quite well now. I know how to create titles, chroma key, colour correct, Animatte to get rid of unwanted objects in the scene, to do simple and complex edits and cross cuts. I just know it and its easy to me, so I may be biased. However, I recently taught my friend how to use Avid (he previously used a buggy premiere when he was at college) and he managed to pick everything I know up in a month. He finds it so easy and tells me he wouldn't use any other software now. In fact we both dabbled in a trial version of FCX and we both HATED it. It just didn't... feel right.

I guess once you go Avid, you dont go back. The price though... the price:(



avid is pretty much the hardest system to use the learning curve is quite steep compared to the other software out and if you can use avid you are pretty much good across the board one u know where everything is in the other systems
G.
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Gavin Benjamin

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Re: What software for BMC @ 2.5K

PostWed Dec 19, 2012 10:04 am

I like avid but they need to support this camera ASAP not to mention 2k, 4k, 5k+

When avid cam out with media composer/symphony 6 they said it had been made with a scalable architecture to support all the way up to 28K, but yet we can even get 4k not to mention 2k :shock:
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: What software for BMC @ 2.5K

PostWed Dec 19, 2012 10:09 am

Gbenjamin wrote:
Costa Louvieris wrote:
João Gomes wrote:
I would call "horrid" an NLE not having native support for HDSLR footage. It´s a matter of taste and not functionality.


To be honest it is preference, but Avid is just functionally better in my opinion. Avid were the first to the scene, arriving a full 2 years before Premiere and by that time Avid had invented the more intuitive system that was leagues ahead of the competition at the time. I have to confess, I have not tried Premiere since the mid 90's where I found it to be buggy, unruly and cheap.

As for what Avid can do that Premiere cannot? I do not know as I have stated I have not tried Premiere since the mid 90's. However I recently wanted to purchase the Adobe Creative Cloud for AE and Premiere, so I watched some videos on the Adobe website and found, to my surprise, that Premiere didn't look any less cheap than it did way back when. (although I still really want AE).

I know Avid quite well now. I know how to create titles, chroma key, colour correct, Animatte to get rid of unwanted objects in the scene, to do simple and complex edits and cross cuts. I just know it and its easy to me, so I may be biased. However, I recently taught my friend how to use Avid (he previously used a buggy premiere when he was at college) and he managed to pick everything I know up in a month. He finds it so easy and tells me he wouldn't use any other software now. In fact we both dabbled in a trial version of FCX and we both HATED it. It just didn't... feel right.

I guess once you go Avid, you dont go back. The price though... the price:(



avid is pretty much the hardest system to use the learning curve is quite steep compared to the other software out and if you can use avid you are pretty much good across the board one u know where everything is in the other systems


I find it quite intuitive. I think people think its harder as there is more to it?
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Gavin Benjamin

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Re: What software for BMC @ 2.5K

PostWed Dec 19, 2012 10:56 am

I was trained on avid at film school so i know it pretty well, people feel its hard because like a good car its manual there is not too many fancy pants bells and such, its not pretty or colorfull the efx are not animated etc... when you open other software lets just call it imovie pro its pretty and cute alot more user friendly and has a arsenal or fx a doohickeys lol. I love avid but they dont care too much about prosumer as other companies only care about it
G.

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