shipping when?

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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: shipping when?

PostThu Dec 03, 2015 4:53 pm

I can only imagine what sort of hell the BM engineering and production teams must be going through right now, and with the holidays fast approaching. Being late on one product is bad enough, being soooo late on so many products has got to be hell on earth.
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rick.lang

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Re: shipping when?

PostThu Dec 03, 2015 5:30 pm

Paul, next you're going to start a rumour about 6K for $6K. Sensor 'full frame' open gate 6144x3457 6 micron photosites 16 stops on URSA, 15 stops on URSA Mini. Designed for DCI 4K deliverables ACES 1.1.


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Ivon Visalli

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Re: shipping when?

PostThu Dec 03, 2015 5:40 pm

B&H is now showing the 4K mini with PL mount in stock.
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Jason R. Johnston

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Re: shipping when?

PostThu Dec 03, 2015 6:54 pm

rick.lang wrote:Paul, next you're going to start a rumour about 6K for $6K. Sensor 'full frame' open gate 6144x3457 6 micron photosites 16 stops on URSA, 15 stops on URSA Mini. Designed for DCI 4K deliverables ACES 1.1.


I understood all of that.

Ivon Visalli wrote:B&H is now showing the 4K mini with PL mount in stock.


Yes it is. As are a few others. I imagine there is less demand for the PL versions due to the overall expense inherent to that lens mount. That means I might have mine before some people have their EF 4.6K. Next year, most likely.
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Michael McCaffrey

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shipping when?

PostThu Dec 03, 2015 6:56 pm

Doesn't matter when they announce the 6k for $6k or any new camera. It will always be a year out before anybody sees it. Any camera announced at NAB won't see the light of day till 2017.
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Paul Swan

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Re: shipping when?

PostThu Dec 03, 2015 7:20 pm

it was not rumor it was skepticism
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Zac Gaetano

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Re: shipping when?

PostThu Dec 03, 2015 7:28 pm

any rumors on when B&H will get more 4k EF's in stock ? I preordered at launch and still haven't gotten any word
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Jason R. Johnston

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Re: shipping when?

PostThu Dec 03, 2015 8:51 pm

Zac Gaetano wrote:any rumors on when B&H will get more 4k EF's in stock ? I preordered at launch and still haven't gotten any word


Tons of rumors. We have heard that B&H is getting shipments every day. We don't know how many units or what units comprise those shipments. I'm sure a very large amount of those preorders they are tasked with fulfilling were submitted this past April, with dozen or hundreds more coming in throughout the year and possibly even as I type this. I imagine the 4K EF is the most ordered of the four Ursa Mini models so I am sure the wait will be realistically very long still.
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Nick.Ingram

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Re: shipping when?

PostThu Dec 03, 2015 10:45 pm

Ha! Here we go again. Ursa Mini 4K on eBay BIN for $5,500. Lol
http://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/272060850369
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Paul Swan

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Re: shipping when?

PostThu Dec 03, 2015 10:55 pm

Some kind of stupid joke. Or someone will buy?
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Jason R. Johnston

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Re: shipping when?

PostFri Dec 04, 2015 12:44 am

Someone always does.
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Re: shipping when?

PostFri Dec 04, 2015 1:28 am

Someone who didn't read the fine print, "4K." The devil is in the details.


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Giancarlo Betteo

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Re: shipping when?

PostFri Dec 04, 2015 1:35 am

Zac Gaetano wrote:any rumors on when B&H will get more 4k EF's in stock ? I preordered at launch and still haven't gotten any word


order through Markertek and cancel your order at B&H. I ordered from Markertek last Friday, and my camera is getting delivered tomorrow. before I placed my order, I called them to ask how their backorder list looked, and they said they had just finished getting through all their preorders.


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Serge Stambolyan

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Re: shipping when?

PostFri Dec 04, 2015 6:34 am

Giancarlo Betteo wrote:
Zac Gaetano wrote:any rumors on when B&H will get more 4k EF's in stock ? I preordered at launch and still haven't gotten any word


order through Markertek and cancel your order at B&H. I ordered from Markertek last Friday, and my camera is getting delivered tomorrow. before I placed my order, I called them to ask how their backorder list looked, and they said they had just finished getting through all their preorders.


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Really? I called them on Wednesday and they told me that they didn't have any in stock and wouldn't know when they would have the next stock in so I was hesitant to cancel my B&H order. Do you think I should just keep trying with them? I'm hesitant to cancel my B&H order only because I don't want to lose my place in line but I would be much happier if I know that I'd get the camera before Christmas.
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Re: shipping when?

PostFri Dec 04, 2015 6:37 am

Nick.Ingram wrote:Ha! Here we go again. Ursa Mini 4K on eBay BIN for $5,500. Lol
http://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/272060850369


Actually, opening bid is $3795. But, for a "used" camera?
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Re: shipping when?

PostFri Dec 04, 2015 6:38 am

Serge Stambolyan wrote:
Giancarlo Betteo wrote:
Zac Gaetano wrote:any rumors on when B&H will get more 4k EF's in stock ? I preordered at launch and still haven't gotten any word


order through Markertek and cancel your order at B&H. I ordered from Markertek last Friday, and my camera is getting delivered tomorrow. before I placed my order, I called them to ask how their backorder list looked, and they said they had just finished getting through all their preorders.


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Really? I called them on Wednesday and they told me that they didn't have any in stock and wouldn't know when they would have the next stock in so I was hesitant to cancel my B&H order. Do you think I should just keep trying with them? I'm hesitant to cancel my B&H order only because I don't want to lose my place in line but I would be much happier if I know that I'd get the camera before Christmas.


neither place charges you until the camera is shipped, so I'd say place an order with markertek, and just wait to cancel your B&H until the camera ships. that's what I did. if I stayed at B&H I probably wouldn't get my camera for at least a month


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Serge Stambolyan

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Re: shipping when?

PostFri Dec 04, 2015 6:41 am

Giancarlo Betteo wrote:
Serge Stambolyan wrote:
Really? I called them on Wednesday and they told me that they didn't have any in stock and wouldn't know when they would have the next stock in so I was hesitant to cancel my B&H order. Do you think I should just keep trying with them? I'm hesitant to cancel my B&H order only because I don't want to lose my place in line but I would be much happier if I know that I'd get the camera before Christmas.


neither place charges you until the camera is shipped, so I'd say place an order with markertek, and just wait to cancel your B&H until the camera ships. that's what I did. if I stayed at B&H I probably wouldn't get my camera for at least a month


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I'm paying through PayPal credit, which is where my problem lies. Although, I guess that method still works since I have until February to cancel the camera (or until it ships) from B&H until I have to pay for it.

That's a pretty solid plan actually, I may still order from Markertek.
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Re: shipping when?

PostFri Dec 04, 2015 8:59 am

Jason R. Johnston wrote:Someone always does.

True of pretty much everything rare and/or early, so it seems...I've seen Star Wars VI tickets early premiere tickets sell for well over $1k, and offered at up to $10k, all for a chance to see the exact same film twelve hours or so hours earlier than they would otherwise. If I sold the four of those my family got free through a lucky connection with some company, I could pretty much buy a Mini 4.6K. I'd do it, except its my father who technically has the tickets and he wasn't exactly fond of the idea.

Its just how supply and demand works, I suppose--low supply, high demand, prices go up. Of course, in our day and age, things get cheaper every year if we wait, which is my plan exactly. In all honestly, I don't have shoots planned that really need what the Mini offers until the summer/fall of next year, so my MLV Raw 7Ds will get my by until then (along with "window shopping" with other folks' great 4.6K footage.)
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Jason R. Johnston

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Re: shipping when?

PostFri Dec 04, 2015 2:38 pm

I love window shopping. I'm such a girl.

And I have zero plans to watch Episode VII until I hear some legit reviews because I stopped liking Star Wars movies in 1999. I think Empire is a great movie regardless of the brand recognition. I dislike anything with JJ Abrams attached, including anything written by anyone who worked on Lost. I hate what they did with the Star Trek movies but not as much as I hate what Rick Berman did to it. I think Ep VII will be exactly like those two Trek movies: fun, diverting, well made, but ultimately shallow fan films that only serve to sell merchandise. Instead of, ya know, a great movie that makes you think and feel. Like Empire. Even Ep IV has that moment when Luke is staring at the twin suns thinking "Ima be here the rest of my life, aren't I?" that makes you, ya know, feeeeeel something. Giggling at action scenes is not feeling anything. That's just a fun movie. I'm ok with fun movies...popcorn movies....guilty pleasure movies....as long as they're entertaining. But I ain't going to spend more than $8 for a ticket and I'm not wasting my time to see it at midnight, nor am i gonna dress up, and I'm not going to be a fan boy and say its the best blahsnlhsartbiknaarv...dont care. So I have hopes Lawrence Kasdan helped and delivered his best script since Empire, but realistically, i think Ep VII will be all looks and no depth. A fun diversion but not a great movie. In the end, however, I am positive it will be a better experience than all three prequel movies combined!!!!! Oh my gawd..... But how do you really feel, Jason? At least we'll get another FANTASTIC score by John Williams. That is just given.

And yeah 7D is pretty alright...
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: shipping when?

PostFri Dec 04, 2015 2:48 pm

Jason, I'm not as harsh on Abrams as you appear to be, maybe because I liked Lost. Be that as it may I must add that like it or not Abrams is becoming very predictable. I hope he gets the courage to take more chances.
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Re: shipping when?

PostFri Dec 04, 2015 4:08 pm

The worst was in Into Dorkness where not only was the role swap between Kirk and Spock rather un-imaginative, they felt like they had to call it out blatantly.

It was like saying, "no we didn't just remake The Wrath of Khan, we made a new movie. Really. See?"

But in reality it was the same movie. Sigh.
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Re: shipping when?

PostFri Dec 04, 2015 6:52 pm

Oh, delicious! Another completely unrelated tangent to help make the waiting for a sensor tolerable.

Fully support Jason's comments. CGI is overused and the storytelling of a script abused by all the sizzle without the steak. Hope the story is the strongest element this time.


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Rakesh Malik

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Re: shipping when?

PostFri Dec 04, 2015 7:03 pm

rick.lang wrote:Oh, delicious! Another completely unrelated tangent to help make the waiting for a sensor tolerable.

Fully support Jason's comments. CGI is overused and the storytelling of a script abused by all the sizzle without the steak. Hope the story is the strongest element this time.


And let's hope that the midichlorian idiocy doesn't make a comeback.
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Re: shipping when?

PostFri Dec 04, 2015 7:49 pm

And let's hope that the midichlorian idiocy doesn't make a comeback.


I know. I hate when people feel the need to explain away mystical elements of a story. Dang, just let people wonder..
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Re: shipping when?

PostFri Dec 04, 2015 8:35 pm

BMD vision of Time is so mystical ! :lol:
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Re: shipping when?

PostFri Dec 04, 2015 8:38 pm

Michel Talaïa wrote:BMD vision of Time is so mystical ! :lol:

Nice segue to bring it back on thread!
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Re: shipping when?

PostFri Dec 04, 2015 9:58 pm

Can't agree more with your JJ Abrams digression, Mr. Johnston. I mean the new Star Trek films were sort of fun to watch, in the same way taking a big LEGO creation you built in your childhood and smashing it into tiny bits would be really fun to watch, but it leaves you with an empty feeling inside that the old thoughtful films used to fill. If they could have just made it and not deflowered the name Star Trek with it, then it would have been fine and I would have gone on my merry way, and maybe even watched it on Netflix or something if I was board. But they just had to call it Star Trek, didn't they...
Jason R. Johnston wrote:But I ain't going to spend more than $8 for a ticket

Same for me, except $0, since I certainly wouldn't be going if we didn't happen to get the tickets free. Its not a midnight screening, its a special early release so it begins at 7PM. And if its that bad, I can just close my eyes and listen to the surely glorious score...
Rakesh Malik wrote:And let's hope that the midichlorian idiocy doesn't make a comeback.

I might just walk out...
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Re: shipping when?

PostSat Dec 05, 2015 1:01 pm

look were all excited for Star Wars ... just want my hands on this camera !

is there any footage of the 4.6k RAW footage or is it not ready yet?
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Re: shipping when?

PostSat Dec 05, 2015 3:54 pm

...Hello darkness, my old friend...
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John Simatos

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Re: shipping when?

PostSat Dec 05, 2015 5:21 pm

Rakesh Malik wrote:
rick.lang wrote:Oh, delicious! Another completely unrelated tangent to help make the waiting for a sensor tolerable.

Fully support Jason's comments. CGI is overused and the storytelling of a script abused by all the sizzle without the steak. Hope the story is the strongest element this time.


And let's hope that the midichlorian idiocy doesn't make a comeback.


That's been replaced with being a 'force sensitive'. My eyes rolled as I wrote that.


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Rakesh Malik

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Re: shipping when?

PostSat Dec 05, 2015 5:47 pm

John Simatos wrote:
Rakesh Malik wrote:
And let's hope that the midichlorian idiocy doesn't make a comeback.


That's been replaced with being a 'force sensitive'. My eyes rolled as I wrote that.


The farce is strong with this one.
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Re: shipping when?

PostSat Dec 05, 2015 7:33 pm

Will they be able to announce new products at NAB when they haven't shipped there!?
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Re: shipping when?

PostSat Dec 05, 2015 9:23 pm

They have done it before :-o
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Donnell Henry

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Re: shipping when?

PostSat Dec 05, 2015 10:43 pm

Ok so I spoke to Bm on Friday. What was said to me was that they want to release the camera with all features enabled, they don't want to be doing firmware updates every 2 weeks to enable features like they did for the bmpc 4K, Ursa and others so they're working very hard to finish testing so this camera can be released ..they're aiming hard before the end of December as they're trying to get it in people's hands before the year is out. It makes sense to me.. Being that I had the the bmpc 4K when it was first released I had to do the first shoot of my film in pro res .. Because it took weeks before Raw was enabled. So I get that this time around they want to give us a finished product. I can appreciate that better than getting a camera that I have to wait for features to be enabled like my last 2 cameras.
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Re: shipping when?

PostSat Dec 05, 2015 11:07 pm

Thanks for that update Donnell.
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Donnell Henry

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Re: shipping when?

PostSat Dec 05, 2015 11:15 pm

No prob Ivon
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Re: shipping when?

PostSun Dec 06, 2015 1:00 am

Donnell Henry wrote:Ok so I spoke to Bm on Friday. What was said to me was that they want to release the camera with all features enabled, they don't want to be doing firmware updates every 2 weeks to enable features like they did for the bmpc 4K, Ursa and others so they're working very hard to finish testing so this camera can be released ..


This is probably a good strategy for the product cycle after next. Rather than starting a new product development cycle while still trying to finish the previous products, they can concentrate on the next products full bore with occasional fix releases for the previous products.

Not that BM is much more than a black box as far as knowing what's going on inside. They might be trying to get staggered teams going.
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Re: shipping when?

PostSun Dec 06, 2015 1:11 am

Donnell Henry wrote:Ok so I spoke to Bm on Friday. What was said to me was that they want to release the camera with all features enabled, they don't want to be doing firmware updates every 2 weeks to enable features like they did for the bmpc 4K, Ursa and others.


Sorry, but I'd rather have the camera in my hot little hands now and do daily updates if necessary, but I may just be an oddball ;)
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rick.lang

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Re: shipping when?

PostSun Dec 06, 2015 3:27 am

Donnell, were you brave enough to ask what is being worked on in terms of being ready to release? Maybe it's a host of things but I wonder if they indicated anything, such as the global shutter or raw or color science or other things? Thanks.


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Re: shipping when?

PostSun Dec 06, 2015 7:21 am

Norbert von der Heidt wrote:
Donnell Henry wrote:Ok so I spoke to Bm on Friday. What was said to me was that they want to release the camera with all features enabled, they don't want to be doing firmware updates every 2 weeks to enable features like they did for the bmpc 4K, Ursa and others.


Sorry, but I'd rather have the camera in my hot little hands now and do daily updates if necessary, but I may just be an oddball ;)


I'll second that - I mean how long is that piece of string?
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Donnell Henry

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Re: shipping when?

PostSun Dec 06, 2015 1:06 pm

rick.lang wrote:Donnell, were you brave enough to ask what is being worked on in terms of being ready to release? Maybe it's a host of things but I wonder if they indicated anything, such as the global shutter or raw or color science or other things? Thanks.


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Hi Rick, I did ask for specifics on what exactly was holding up the camera the rep said he couldn't comment on exactly what they're specifically working on. That's when he told me about the general idea of sending this camera out with everything it was advertised to do.
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Re: shipping when?

PostSun Dec 06, 2015 1:14 pm

Mark Evans wrote:
Norbert von der Heidt wrote:
Donnell Henry wrote:Ok so I spoke to Bm on Friday. What was said to me was that they want to release the camera with all features enabled, they don't want to be doing firmware updates every 2 weeks to enable features like they did for the bmpc 4K, Ursa and others.


Sorry, but I'd rather have the camera in my hot little hands now and do daily updates if necessary, but I may just be an oddball ;)


I'll second that - I mean how long is that piece of string?


Norbert and mark you are not oddballs ..if they shipped the camera now without the updates I'd buy it as well and wait for updates..if you guys go back on some earlier threads you can see the wrath of the community when they don't get those updates on time. The thread is probably as long as this one :) I know what its like to have an unfinished product waiting for updates ..that's a another bunch of strings that gets dangled in front of us. So this time around I can understand and wait a bit for a finished product
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rick.lang

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shipping when?

PostSun Dec 06, 2015 3:37 pm

Some of these dangling strings may not affect some people who would understand the camera isn't finished and might use it with an approach that they can learn about it as is. But others will put it to work the day after they receive it. Results will vary depending upon the shoot, but not hard to imagine some will be disappointed with their results. And some will be upset that the camera shipped and they've fully paid for it when they discover global shutter is missing or raw is unsupported or HFR windows aren't there and that's what they need most!

I'm in Yogi Berra's camp when he said, "It's not over 'til it's over." The modern day equivalent meme: "It's ready when it's ready."


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Last edited by rick.lang on Sun Dec 06, 2015 3:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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shipping when?

PostSun Dec 06, 2015 3:38 pm

Double post.
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: shipping when?

PostSun Dec 06, 2015 4:35 pm

Yes Rick, it can be very confusing to the buyer if they are expecting a pro camera out of the box but BM is acting like they are selling to hobbyists. I'm a hobbyist so I don't mind.
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Re: shipping when?

PostSun Dec 06, 2015 4:42 pm

rick.lang wrote:Some of these dangling strings may not affect some people who would understand the camera isn't finished and might use it with an approach that they can learn about it as is. But others will put it to work the day after they receive it. Results will vary depending upon the shoot, but not hard to imagine some will be disappointed with their results. And some will be upset that the camera shipped and they've fully paid for it when they discover global shutter is missing or raw is unsupported or HFR windows aren't there and that's what they need most!

I'm in Yogi Berra's camp when he said, "It's not over 'til it's over." The modern day equivalent meme: "It's ready when it's ready."


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ABSOLUTELY AGREE!
Great post Rick
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Re: shipping when?

PostSun Dec 06, 2015 4:46 pm

" The modern day equivalent meme: "It's ready when it's ready."

Maybe so, but why do they release many products that are far from ready and give shipping date that is far from realistic?

If they would have focused to make Micro available July, and would release Mini now, They would have sold a lot of Micros, they would have sold more Production and URSA cameras, and the URSA Mini 4.6k would still be awesome camera if released today, and if they would announce it now and ship January, about everyone would be happier than now.
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rick.lang

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shipping when?

PostSun Dec 06, 2015 4:59 pm

Kim, just speculation on my part, but maybe they've learned from their past performance re seriously incomplete firmware and want to turn over a new leaf on these two cameras and one new sensor that are their best opportunity to make a good impression out of the starting gate. They may feel that they are in a horse race with Red Raven. No point in winning the horse race with a horse that will be disqualified for a false start: missing features or compromised performance. Sure they want to win the race too, but that's secondary to ensuring a very good product is released that will be well regarded from day one this time.

As for their perennial "shipping in July" mantra at each NAB, you may be surprised next year. Again, lesson learned, finally. My opinion only.


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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: shipping when?

PostSun Dec 06, 2015 5:24 pm

Rick, you have a point. The later the project the better it needs to be.
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Leon Benzakein

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Re: shipping when?

PostSun Dec 06, 2015 8:12 pm

rick.lang wrote:As for their perennial "shipping in July" mantra at each NAB, you may be surprised next year. Again, lesson learned, finally. My opinion only.


I discovered that my BMD "July" is mid November.
That is when I was able to purchase the VA off the shelf at the local store and I seem to remember purchasing the BMPCC off the shelf at the same time of the year some time back from the same store.

I think that this is part of the "magic" in Blackmagic.
Or maybe I am just a romantic. ;)
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