Blackmagic Forum

robertmanningjr wrote:I needed to vent about the ridiculousness on this horrible situation.

+1

Seriously thinking moving Fuji after the way bmd has handled the ursa turret.

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Don't worry ,iam also in the same situation ,Bmd will do some solution to this!

Stewart Fairweather wrote:In the Cion, the sensor runs out to 120fps @ DCI 4K & 12 bits.

I'm well aware of that... not being able to USE the 120fps option contributed to my selling my Cion.

So if you're willing to drop the bit depth, and thus the processing loads, you can use the spare overhead for higher frame rates,.... Without updating the processor.

Provided that your entire control pipeline and image processing chain are designed to support that. If your sensor's controllers and your ADCs aren't designed to work that way, they won't. If your ADCs can't decode the signals quickly enough to fully refresh the image buffer at 120fps, the camera can't record at that speed.

You have to look at the camera as a complete system, not just a sensor block with a computer attached. There's a lot that goes on in the signal processing just getting data off of the sensor.

Now, guys, as for the Turret, it wouldn't be that hard to machine your own, so long as you don't need the lens to be powered.

Or have it work, since the data, power, and clock circuitry are also part of the turret...

man at this point even if they put mini pro sensor i would be okay with it

Ben Mart wrote:

robertmanningjr wrote:I needed to vent about the ridiculousness on this horrible situation.

Seriously thinking moving Fuji after the way bmd has handled the ursa turret.

I feel like the alternative offer that BMD figured out was very generous, they offered all the original URSA owners the option to buy a UMP for super cheap!

David Peterson wrote:

Ben Mart wrote:

robertmanningjr wrote:I needed to vent about the ridiculousness on this horrible situation.

Seriously thinking moving Fuji after the way bmd has handled the ursa turret.

I feel like the alternative offer that BMD figured out was very generous, they offered all the original URSA owners the option to buy a UMP for super cheap!

You're making too much sense.

I agree though.

David Peterson wrote:

Ben Mart wrote:

robertmanningjr wrote:I needed to vent about the ridiculousness on this horrible situation.

Seriously thinking moving Fuji after the way bmd has handled the ursa turret.

I feel like the alternative offer that BMD figured out was very generous, they offered all the original URSA owners the option to buy a UMP for super cheap!

Gather you took up the offer?

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This thread is getting too long and does not lead to any resolution other than a discount on the UMP.
BMD, how about settling this be giving everyone with the URSA 4K a free BM Pocket 4K as a settlement. I bet you it will be a good marketing plot and at the same time you'll get more publicity on the BM4K and BRAW. Those who take this offer will have to shut up and put up.

Ellory Yu wrote:This thread is getting too long and does not lead to any resolution other than a discount on the UMP.
BMD, how about settling this be giving everyone with the URSA 4K a free BM Pocket 4K as a settlement. I bet you it will be a good marketing plot and at the same time you'll get more publicity on the BM4K and BRAW. Those who take this offer will have to shut up and put up.

Free $1295 camera vs $3000 off a $6000 camera.

If you understand retail markup, you’d know that they are offering Ursa owners the UMP at cost. That’s no small thing for a company.

Ben Mart wrote:

David Peterson wrote:

I feel like the alternative offer that BMD figured out was very generous, they offered all the original URSA owners the option to buy a UMP for super cheap!

Gather you took up the offer?

No, as I hadn't purchased the original URSA. (I'm in the sound department)

But if I did own the URSA and worked with it, then it would have been a no brainer to take up the deal!

michaeldhead wrote:

Ellory Yu wrote:This thread is getting too long and does not lead to any resolution other than a discount on the UMP.
BMD, how about settling this be giving everyone with the URSA 4K a free BM Pocket 4K as a settlement. I bet you it will be a good marketing plot and at the same time you'll get more publicity on the BM4K and BRAW. Those who take this offer will have to shut up and put up.

Free $1295 camera vs $3000 off a $6000 camera.

If you understand retail markup, you’d know that they are offering Ursa owners the UMP at cost. That’s no small thing for a company.

Who cares about retail markup and at cost this time? It's time to end this turret wishful thinking because those who are still hopeful for a turret and want a turret will not be paying $3500 for a UMP. So give them all a free Pocket 4K on condition that they stop wining and end this. THE TURRET WILL NEVER HAPPEN. END OF STORY. Sue BMD on a class action which someone in NY already filed or get that to settle with a free pocket for all loyal 4K USRA owners. It's a wrap.

Deleted.

Can't be arsed with this thread no more.


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Ellory Yu wrote:Who cares about retail markup and at cost this time?

Probably the company trying to stay in business.

Let me put it this way: which would you rather have: $1295, or $3000?

How much do you want BMD out of business?

Probably the company trying to stay in business.

Well, be an honest company and communicate with the best intent and interest of the customer.

Let me put it this way: which would you rather have: $1295, or $3000?

Free, because those you bought into the URSA got dupped. It's called a penalty or restitution if you are in the eyes of the court.

How much do you want BMD out of business?

If they continue with this practice, they should be out of business. In the USA, we call it a class action lawsuit. In this case, false marketing and representation of a product.

Gosh, why am I having this debate with someone who is a vendor fanboy? Roger and out.

Ellory Yu wrote:Well, be an honest company and communicate with the best intent and interest of the customer.

You mean liking coming onto these boards and posting clarifications and updates? They do. Maybe not as frequently as any of us would like, but they do

Ellory Yu wrote:Free, because those you bought into the URSA got dupped. It's called a penalty or restitution if you are in the eyes of the court.

Oh, my gosh! I had no idea that people that paid for the original URSA camera never got a camera. You're right! Someone should sue!

Ellory Yu wrote:If they continue with this practice, they should be out of business. In the USA, we call it a class action lawsuit. In this case, false marketing and representation of a product.

What "practice" are you talking about? I'm asking because I really don't know what "practice" you're referencing here. If you'd like to file a lawsuit, then go for it. I'm curious how fast the judge will throw it out.

As I've said, I'm not a BMD fanboy, I'm a truth fanboy.

Ellory Yu wrote:

If they continue with this practice, they should be out of business. In the USA, we call it a class action lawsuit. In this case, false marketing and representation of a product.

As Michael has said, I don't think there's a much of a case here. Anybody who bought the Ursa got what they payed for in the package. Unless you payed for the turret and never received it or never got your money back then what case do people think they have here?

Even if you said "Well I bought it because you can swap out the sensor but they never released any other sensor so they lied" then you still wouldn't have the case because the camera ships with the ability to swap out the sensor. You can remove the current sensor, doesn't matter that there's nothing else to swap it with. If you can take the sensor off of one Ursa and place it on another Ursa then you got what you payed for.

Everything you can purchase that can be used with something else has some level of accepted consumer risk. There are people who bought the Atari Jaguar back in the day because they wanted to use the announced VR headset for it but they would have never had a legal case against Atari for not releasing it. They went to the store, payed X amount of money know what was in the box and what it could do and everything was there and it did what it said.

michaeldhead wrote:You mean liking coming onto these boards and posting clarifications and updates? They do. Maybe not as frequently as any of us would like, but they do

You're new to this forum. Read up first. Read this thread. Read the post about the Turret from Grant on this board. Last I read they're still working on the turret. So quit picking an argument with me on this coz you're just gonna loose DH."

michaeldhead wrote:What "practice" are you talking about? I'm asking because I really don't know what "practice" you're referencing here. If you'd like to file a lawsuit, then go for it. I'm curious how fast the judge will throw it out.

Again, read the thread in its entirely. There's a class action started in NY that in behalf of another poster, etc. Dude, quit posting because you're new and clueless. You just want a BM camera. Go buy one or own another one. I'm kind of done pissing you off.

michaeldhead wrote:As I've said, I'm not a BMD fanboy, I'm a truth fanboy.

Don't make excuses. You sound like one. Otherwise, you'll be puckering up. Have a nice weekend.

Mark Grgurev wrote:

Ellory Yu wrote:

If they continue with this practice, they should be out of business. In the USA, we call it a class action lawsuit. In this case, false marketing and representation of a product.

As Michael has said, I don't think there's a much of a case here. Anybody who bought the Ursa got what they payed for in the package. Unless you payed for the turret and never received it or never got your money back then what case do people think they have here?

Even if you said "Well I bought it because you can swap out the sensor but they never released any other sensor so they lied" then you still wouldn't have the case because the camera ships with the ability to swap out the sensor. You can remove the current sensor, doesn't matter that there's nothing else to swap it with. If you can take the sensor off of one Ursa and place it on another Ursa then you got what you payed for.

Everything you can purchase that can be used with something else has some level of accepted consumer risk. There are people who bought the Atari Jaguar back in the day because they wanted to use the announced VR headset for it but they would have never had a legal case against Atari for not releasing it. They went to the store, payed X amount of money know what was in the box and what it could do and everything was there and it did what it said.

Mark, I got your point but Michael, well that's a worthless conversation.

Someone already had made this an actionable case. See post below, on this thread. If you wins, then all USRA owners get a piece and end of story. If not, well you know how that saying goes - "fool me once...".

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=45698&start=1300#p425367

Anyway, it won't be me but I know someone will prevail. Go robertmanningjr!

Ellory, if you think you have a case then bring it, otherwise I have no idea what you think you are saying here that hasn't been said a hundred times before in this very thread and then completely ignored by BM. Get a grip man. Banging your head against a wall is only a good idea if you want a flat head.

Gene Kochanowsky wrote:Ellory, if you think you have a case then bring it, otherwise I have no idea what you think you are saying here that hasn't been said a hundred times before in this very thread and then completely ignored by BM. Get a grip man. Banging your head against a wall is only a good idea if you want a flat head.

Hey Gene, I'm just responding to a moron who does not read the thread and calling me out. You and I have been around this forum and this newbies are clueless to even try calling me out. And yes, you are right, it's been called a hundred times and completely ignored. That's the problem. That's why robertmanningjr commence a suit in NY as you already know. I for one, don't even want to talk about it anymore. But let's not forget robertmanningjr (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=45698&start=1300#p425367). His win someday will be yours too. That's because businesses who ignores their customers (as BM have ignored here) should not be in business.

But , this nab I do expect an miraculous positive stand on new turret from black magic design,asok

David Peterson wrote:

Ben Mart wrote:

David Peterson wrote:

I feel like the alternative offer that BMD figured out was very generous, they offered all the original URSA owners the option to buy a UMP for super cheap!

Gather you took up the offer?

No, as I hadn't purchased the original URSA. (I'm in the sound department)

But if I did own the URSA and worked with it, then it would have been a no brainer to take up the deal!

It really irks me when people that don't own the camera and have no personal, professional or financial interests attempt to tell people who do, what they should or should not do. THAT doesn't make any sense to me.

Mark Grgurev wrote:

Ellory Yu wrote:

If they continue with this practice, they should be out of business. In the USA, we call it a class action lawsuit. In this case, false marketing and representation of a product.

As Michael has said, I don't think there's a much of a case here. Anybody who bought the Ursa got what they payed for in the package. Unless you payed for the turret and never received it or never got your money back then what case do people think they have here?

Even if you said "Well I bought it because you can swap out the sensor but they never released any other sensor so they lied" then you still wouldn't have the case because the camera ships with the ability to swap out the sensor. You can remove the current sensor, doesn't matter that there's nothing else to swap it with. If you can take the sensor off of one Ursa and place it on another Ursa then you got what you payed for.

Everything you can purchase that can be used with something else has some level of accepted consumer risk. There are people who bought the Atari Jaguar back in the day because they wanted to use the announced VR headset for it but they would have never had a legal case against Atari for not releasing it. They went to the store, payed X amount of money know what was in the box and what it could do and everything was there and it did what it said.

You'd have a great argument if it indeed did everything it said it could do and everything was there and it did what it said. You have no idea if you can take the sensor off. You have no idea if you can put another sensor in. And the camera did not do what numerous URSA manuals said it could do and what the box, the actual box!, said it could do.

One thing, I do agree with, and I'm that NY guy, just send the camera back and get your money back or keep the camera.

I just don't appreciate a company attempting to get away with misleading their customers and those on this thread who don't even own an URSA or some that don't even own a camera making less than useful comments.

Asok Kumar wrote:But , this nab I do expect an miraculous positive stand on new turret from black magic design,asok

Was that sarcasm?

Ellory Yu wrote:You're new to this forum. Read up first. Read this thread. Read the post about the Turret from Grant on this board. Last I read they're still working on the turret. So quit picking an argument with me on this coz you're just gonna loose DH."

Oh, that's a cute way to try and be demeaning and make yourself feel superior. Actually, I'm not new - I've been reading these boards since 2012 when the BMCC was announced I just recently decided to join - long time lurker, as they say.

Ellory Yu wrote:Again, read the thread in its entirely. There's a class action started in NY that in behalf of another poster, etc. Dude, quit posting because you're new and clueless. You just want a BM camera. Go buy one or own another one. I'm kind of done pissing you off.

Do you mean the lawsuit that I can't find any listing for, even though civil cases are public record? If you can direct me to a link to it, I would appreciate it - It would be great to see how someone can hope to prove damages based on something that was never guaranteed, and were offered reasonable alternatives ($2.5k off a $6k camera - cheaper than I turret, I imagine) along with ending up with two cameras as opposed to one camera and a turret sitting on a shelf. I see a problem with the lawsuit.

Are you going to sue RED for not making "3K for $3K"?

I get that you're personally offended because things didn't work out the way you hoped - I'm sure BMD feels similarly, since the turrets didn't work out how they planned. Heck, the Ursa was designed with a lot of extra computing horsepower - I hope they can bring Braw to the Ursa. I personally think that would be great, and would be of great benefit for shooters still using the Ursa.

I do plan on getting a BMD camera - that's part of why I finally decided to stop lurking and start posting.

Ellory Yu wrote:Don't make excuses. You sound like one. Otherwise, you'll be puckering up. Have a nice weekend.

I did have a nice weekend - I had a good shoot and got a lot accomplished, including some rest that I needed. Thank you

Gene Kochanowsky wrote:Ellory, if you think you have a case then bring it, otherwise I have no idea what you think you are saying here that hasn't been said a hundred times before in this very thread and then completely ignored by BM. Get a grip man. Banging your head against a wall is only a good idea if you want a flat head.

BMD didn't ignore it. That was why BMD offered the deep discount for Ursa owners who wanted a 4.6K sensor so that they could purchase a complete Ursa Mini 4.6K, and didn't ask for the cameras back.

Rakesh Malik wrote:BMD didn't ignore it. That was why BMD offered the deep discount for Ursa owners who wanted a 4.6K sensor so that they could purchase a complete Ursa Mini 4.6K, and didn't ask for the cameras back.

Dude, that accounts for the first half of this thread, but not the second half.

Why don't you provide us a full refund? What the (class action lawsuit) Blackmagic you are you lying to us.

You refused to refund our original purchase because you are still working on the turret? What the (class action lawsuit)!!! If you are still working on it then why the (class action lawsuit) was camera pulled off the website and why are you not refunding our orders?

Grant Potty the **** hit the fan when you lied to us and you continue to lie to us with no regard to your customers. You continue to make stories but your lies will catch up with you. How many years are you going to live the lie that you are telling? How many times are you going to cover up the truth?

Just give me my damn money back that is all I am asking. If you can't do that then you need to go bankrupt.

WOOOOOO...That's a bit harsh there Brian. I have the Ursa V1. And yes I'm disappointed too. Just my opinion but, I don't think this type of post is very productive. What I've done is call up Blackmagic a couple times and ask what's the progress on the Turret. Of course I get the same answer, but one time I called up and the rep told me a lot of other owners have been calling to find out about the progress. He explained to me they don't really hear anything from the top unless its nearly ready to roll out. All he said he heard was that they're still working on it. This was about 4 months ago. I figure grant would've removed his post by now if its not happening. Others have stated we need to see the writing on the wall since our Ursa's has been so called discontinued and they offered the Ursa mini pro discount. Right now it's looking very slim for us, but I alway have hope. Maybe you should call them and ask. But be respectful. You'll quicker bait a fly with honey than with vinegar. With that said, here's my Ursa. Grant we're waiting Hopefully we can at least get Braw on this monster.

I seriously doubt that there will ever be a sensor upgrade for my big URSA... and I guess most of us have given up by now. However, I wonder if it would be possible to get the Color science V4 and BRAW for the big URSA? It's supposed to have a lot of processing power, I guess that would help if you want to implement BRAW... Does anyone know more about this? I'd really like if it was easier to color match to my UM46K, I have done it with success but it takes some fiddling around...

I still like my big URSA... I just ordered a Lucadapter focal reducer for it. Theoretically, that almost seems like getting a 800 iso full frame camera...

Mattias Kristiansson wrote:I seriously doubt that there will ever be a sensor upgrade for my big URSA... and I guess most of us have given up by now. However, I wonder if it would be possible to get the Color science V4 and BRAW for the big URSA? It's supposed to have a lot of processing power, I guess that would help if you want to implement BRAW... Does anyone know more about this? I'd really like if it was easier to color match to my UM46K, I have done it with success but it takes some fiddling around...

I still like my big URSA... I just ordered a Lucadapter focal reducer for it. Theoretically, that almost seems like getting a 800 iso full frame camera...

I sent an e-mail to the company.

"Hello, I have big Ursa V2 sensor camera. Is there any possibility to have blackmagic raw update for this camera ? Have a good work"

The answer from Blackmagic is as follows

Hi Ahmet,

Thank you for contacting Blackmagic Design Support.

"At present, we have not been made aware of any plans to update this camera to add Blackmagic RAW.
Please don’t hesitate to get back to me with any further questions you might have"

I think you will like the Luca adaptor. He apparently has solved an infinity focus issue that has to be dealt with when transplanting the 0.71x "ultra" Metabones optics into the "big" URSA.

The wider field-of-view for a given lens focal length is seriously useful along with the greater ability with available light.

A DoP aquaintance actually favours the look of the image from the big URSA and the global shutter.

I do also.
Cheers

I can 3rd that motion so to speak I’m getting into festivals and won a couple with the use of my URSA V1 on my current film. I do love the look of it as well. I hope they can give us BRAW on this cam.

Thanks Donnell hentry , congrats on your award winner film on this Ursa v1,iam planning to do a feature film using my Ursa v1 camera, can you please post a few videos clipping for the award winner film on the Ursa v1, let others including Grant pretty sees it,! regards Ashok

Asok Kumar wrote:Thanks Donnell hentry , congrats on your award winner film on this Ursa v1,iam planning to do a feature film using my Ursa v1 camera, can you please post a few videos clipping for the award winner film on the Ursa v1, let others including Grant pretty sees it,! regards Ashok

Hi Asok, thank you. This is still a great cam I would love to see or hear about more features being shot on this beast including yours. Ha! I don’t know about Grant seeing this, i’m guessing they’re too busy working on the turret I don’t want to derail this thread to much so i’ve Included the link to the teaser/trailer from another thread. 80% of the film was shot on the Ursa v1. I also used a bmpc4k and the BMCC on some shots.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76047

Thanks, awesome, which cine lens used for this? Regards Ashok

Asok I used Zeiss cp.2 21mm and 85mm

Bmd announced new firmware update 6 for Ursa mini pro, for improving the sensor sensitivity from 800 iso to 3600 iso, can we expect anything on Ursa 4k1???

In our country people started to dump the Original Ursa's now. For around 2K they are sold..
As people are loosing faith in the turret upgrade not coming anymore 1,5 year after the announcement of Grant that they are still working on it.. Many think this station has passed.

It is a pity that BMD was not able to roll out an updated turret for this fine piece of equipment. Anyway since then they came out with a few very nice camera's like the BMPCC4K and the Ursa Broadcast.

I shoot a lot of beauty (fair amount of slo-mo) so as an owner of an Ursa v2 and UMP I was really looking forward to the UMP upgrade. I find it ironic that the upgrade only gives me the frame rate at 4k that I can already get from the Ursa. (I'm not counting the windowed mode because I've never found it to be high enough quality when cut with 4K). So our 4 year old camera can still keep pace with the latest!

Iain Philpott wrote:I shoot a lot of beauty (fair amount of slo-mo) so as an owner of an Ursa v2 and UMP I was really looking forward to the UMP upgrade. I find it ironic that the upgrade only gives me the frame rate at 4k that I can already get from the Ursa. (I'm not counting the windowed mode because I've never found it to be high enough quality when cut with 4K). So our 4 year old camera can still keep pace with the latest!

I agree with those thoughts. I hope they release Blackmagic raw for Ursa v2

That would be interesting, the Ursa V2 is a great camera. We use ours for chroma key shooting, very forgiving, great image.
Cheers

In the march Grant Petty update He talks about FGPA chips being the primary reason why they are able to upgrade both software and hardware using software updates. So why is it any different when updating the turret of the camera that they are proving to have issues? They said there is a working prototype but they cannot program it to get the results they want? I have heard no updates from Black Magic officials can any one at Black Magic please explain??????

Not all FGPA chips are the same, some have more capabilities than others, so the FGPA used in the original Ursa, may not be able to supoort the larger resolution 4.6 sensor, or their is another issue that we are not aware of.
Cheers

I saw this a few days ago. Is there a hint being communicated somewhere here?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... inema.html

A guy named Vin Dias sent me a message to check out the photos of when he took the turret out of the URSA.

Just goes to show that Blackmagic was never serious about completing the turret.


https://www.instagram.com/p/BmRzR3PlDt9/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

https://www.instagram.com/p/BmRzEIoF3Nt/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

https://www.instagram.com/p/BmRzPceFd_o/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

This is no proof of such.
To me those picture are proof of they were serious about it.
If you are talking about the thermal paste it is only to transfer heat to cool down the sensor like on CPU in computers.

After all, this time, two years since the original post, I think everyone is belting a dead horse around the head with a stirrup iron in the hope of it getting up.

It would be nice to know if the current Cmosis sensor of the same size and spec except for even faster frame rate than V2 can be installed as a swap if the existing one gets lazered or suffers some other catastrophe.

The frame rate available in the camera would not be faster as new firmware would undoubtedly have to be written for this.

But for the 4.6K sensor which is apparently made by Fairchild, the big URSA is unlikely to see it.

Do anyone know if 6K Turret will be available for upgrade soon?