4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

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Ru Cook

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Mar 13, 2017 4:05 pm

Hi all, I think this thread has kind of turned into the 'Ursa Mini 4.6k Pro trade-up' thread from what I can see..

...back to the original point for a second...what is the latest anyone knows about whether the original Big Ursa will be able to take a 4.6k sensor/turret upgrade??

Has this idea just been 100% scrapped now, or are BM still dangling it as a future possibly ?

I ask as original Ursa's are getting cheaper all the time on eBay , & knowing there is an upgrade path (of the camera body itself) would make all the difference in whether to purchase or not.

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Dean Fisher

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Mar 13, 2017 10:03 pm

Funnily enough, I've been contacted by the original owner of my URSA 4K v2, who is asking me if I'm willing to send a picture of the serial number to him for the UMP4.6k discount offer. At this time I don't think I'll be interested in getting the new camera, so I'm fine with giving the photo to him.

I do have a concern of whether or not this will affect me in any way in the future? Perhaps someone from Blackmagic can chime in. I plan on hanging onto my URSA and waiting for the 4.6K (or whatever sensor is ultimately released), but I don't want the fact that the original owner is using my camera's serial number to affect anything I may want to do with the camera in the future as it relates to contact with Blackmagic.
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rick.lang

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4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Mar 13, 2017 10:27 pm

Dean, I don't think BMD or any retailer is going to allow the same serial number to be used as a qualification for the discount on the upgrade to an URSA Mini Pro.

Edit: rereading your post, the upgrade to the Pro and the update to a new turret should be unrelated, do as you wish.

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Aaron Swann

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Mar 14, 2017 3:39 am

Dean, re-watch the BMD press conference, the URSA mini PRO deal has no impact on purchasing the future turret. The turret will not be at a discounted rate to original owners. You will not require a serial number to purchase a turret...
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Mar 14, 2017 4:01 pm

Keep the thread on topic or it will be locked.
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MartinVidic

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Mar 14, 2017 8:02 pm

chriswaves wrote:I am also tired of this thread having little to do with the actual TURRET (instead, focusing on this Mini Pro / Upgrade path BS) - BMD: I bought the URSA (4K v2) explicitly to upgrade the turret when available (4.6k, 5k, 8k, etc.???) when it is becoming clear that you DON'T have your **** together ("not many people wanted the upgrade" as stated in the presser, which is quite FALSE.)

Didnt come here to rant though, just to add my 2 cents so BMD doesnt think "nobody wants the upgrade turret"....when in fact it is the Mini Pro that is not wanted....atleast for ME. No turret? No URSA MIni Pro -just a class action lawsuit and a new Red Camera for me. Sucks too (as I invested heavily in BMD instead of Red, when I was advised against that move.... :oops: )

Get the turret right for us URSA people ASAP PLEASE......(there, I said please.)


TOTALLY agree. I was in the exact same situation. I waited with my camera decision for nab 2015 and when the 4.6 was announced, I went with blackmagic. As long as the 4.6k happens im ok. As i said before. EVERYBODY who purchased the ursa, purchased it because of its upgradability. This whole thread should be a reminder to black magic that getting the turret ready is their MOST important task. Those who bought the ursa, bought the black-magic flagship. I think im safe to say we are probably the customers with the biggest budget and MOST trust in blackmagicdesign.

Also Tony... I hope this not getting locked... after all we are now all afraid that the turret has been replaced with something else. So this "new product" is now directly related to the turret. Hope to hear more at NAB!!!!
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Mar 14, 2017 8:13 pm

Tony Rivera wrote:Keep the thread on topic or it will be locked.



Thanks Tony
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Mar 14, 2017 8:13 pm

MartinVidic wrote:
chriswaves wrote:I am also tired of this thread having little to do with the actual TURRET (instead, focusing on this Mini Pro / Upgrade path BS) - BMD: I bought the URSA (4K v2) explicitly to upgrade the turret when available (4.6k, 5k, 8k, etc.???) when it is becoming clear that you DON'T have your **** together ("not many people wanted the upgrade" as stated in the presser, which is quite FALSE.)

Didnt come here to rant though, just to add my 2 cents so BMD doesnt think "nobody wants the upgrade turret"....when in fact it is the Mini Pro that is not wanted....atleast for ME. No turret? No URSA MIni Pro -just a class action lawsuit and a new Red Camera for me. Sucks too (as I invested heavily in BMD instead of Red, when I was advised against that move.... :oops: )

Get the turret right for us URSA people ASAP PLEASE......(there, I said please.)


TOTALLY agree. I was in the exact same situation. I waited with my camera decision for nab 2015 and when the 4.6 was announced, I went with blackmagic. As long as the 4.6k happens im ok. As i said before. EVERYBODY who purchased the ursa, purchased it because of its upgradability. This whole thread should be a reminder to black magic that getting the turret ready is their MOST important task. Those who bought the ursa, bought the black-magic flagship. I think im safe to say we are probably the customers with the biggest budget and MOST trust in blackmagicdesign.

Also Tony... I hope this not getting locked... after all we are now all afraid that the turret has been replaced with something else. So this "new product" is now directly related to the turret. Hope to hear more at NAB!!!!



I totally agree. I bought my Ursa with the idea that I would upgrade it to the 4.6k sensor and beyond that as well. Now it seems like BMD is trying to forget about the big Ursa. Also, everyone I know who bought the Ursa wanted to upgrade it. To be honest, I would have never bought it if I knew this was going to be the treatment the camera was going to get.

So yes, I'm one of the people interested in upgrading the Ursa's sensor.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Mar 14, 2017 9:10 pm

Ellory Yu wrote: Who are they fooling. It is the same 4.6K sensor. The tuning will be in the firmware programming and power supply to it. So if that sensor is inferior to that of the UM46K then the same sensor will be inferior in the UM46K. If is sounds like a duck, walks like a duck, looks like a duck, it must be a duck.


Unless they make the duck, into a Global-Shutter-Duck - that takes some extra work.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Mar 16, 2017 7:38 pm

Well, the Ursa to UMP offer worked all the way over here in Sweden.
Got my Mini Pro today at a really good price.
The guys at Scandinavian Photo shines, as always.
Made me forget the turret upgrade, for a while :-)

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Mar 23, 2017 4:29 pm

Not sure if this is a bad sign... but i just noticed that BHPhoto is selling the V1 ursa for just 2990. thats 2000$ less. So if the 4.6K turret would come out, you would be able the V1 URSA + turret for less than the V2 ursa. Why would anybody buy the 4.6K camera for 6990 if you can get the same thing for 4980. Or does BHPhoto know something we dont know? Did BM really give up on the turret? I HOPE NOT!!!!
Also, i bought my ursa after V2 came out and they sent me the V1. I didnt care because i was going to buy the 4.6K soon after. but can't i get the V2 turret for the higher frame-rate? Or is there any other difference?
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Mar 23, 2017 6:38 pm

Frank Glencairn wrote:
Ellory Yu wrote: Who are they fooling. It is the same 4.6K sensor. The tuning will be in the firmware programming and power supply to it. So if that sensor is inferior to that of the UM46K then the same sensor will be inferior in the UM46K. If is sounds like a duck, walks like a duck, looks like a duck, it must be a duck.


Unless they make the duck, into a Global-Shutter-Duck - that takes some extra work.


Just spotted this on the B&H site...

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Mar 23, 2017 7:14 pm

Not sure if im getting this right, but is it the CMOS part you are referring to? Because... didnt they always say 4.6k Global?
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Mar 23, 2017 7:22 pm

MartinVidic wrote:Not sure if im getting this right, but is it the CMOS part you are referring to? Because... didnt they always say 4.6k Global?


Yeah, I was just reiterating Frank's comment about making it a 4.6k Global Shutter Duck... and not just the samee 4.6 sensor that the UM uses... well, unless it is, and it's just not enabled for the UM's. Slow day at the office :)
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Mar 24, 2017 5:34 am

I want the 4.6K turret for my URSA 4K V1. Hopefully by NAB, it will be available.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Mar 31, 2017 8:51 pm

Any news ?
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat Apr 01, 2017 4:41 am

We should know in about three weeks! NAB 2017 April 22-27, 2017.


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Joshua Dredge

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat Apr 01, 2017 4:49 am

If it's not out by NAB I think I will return my camera for a refund.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat Apr 01, 2017 5:50 am

I'm also one of the original URSA owners. After waiting just short of two years I've now cancelled my 4.6K Turret Upgrade order and taken up the discount offer on the URSA Mini Pro 4.6K.
I will now wait and watch and hope that possibly BM will come up with something like
    a 4.6K Turret Upgrade for the URSA
    with the same exchangeable mounts as the Mini Pro
    and a global shutter
    and is available in stock!

That is what I would then happily order!
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Apr 04, 2017 4:15 pm

I'm coming close to my own conclusion that if by NAB the URSA Turret is not announce, that will be it. The URSA 4K will be what it is. I think that is fine. I accepted the fact that I won't be shooting 4.6K at all. There is no need to shoot at 4.6K. It's just more workflow to deal with and none of the projects I deal with requires it or clients care about it... maybe 4K but that's not even interesting to those who I work on projects with. So if the URSA Turret does not come to life, then I'll used that 2K and buy me a used URSA Mini 4K EF which will be a better value. Seeing that the used URSA Mini 4K EF are going for slightly under 2K now, it's a good option (for me at least). I can do 2 cam setup and match shots too.

EDIT: Just an idea. What if B&H starts bundling an URSA 4K EF (or PL) and URSA Mini 4K EF (or PL) for $3995? :D That's a better match and deal for offloading old inventory. :D
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Apr 04, 2017 6:39 pm

Ellory Yu wrote:I'm coming close to my own conclusion that if by NAB the URSA Turret is not announce, that will be it. The URSA 4K will be what it is. I think that is fine. I accepted the fact that I won't be shooting 4.6K at all. There is no need to shoot at 4.6K. It's just more workflow to deal with and none of the projects I deal with requires it or clients care about it... maybe 4K but that's not even interesting to those who I work on projects with. So if the URSA Turret does not come to life, then I'll used that 2K and buy me a used URSA Mini 4K EF which will be a better value. Seeing that the used URSA Mini 4K EF are going for slightly under 2K now, it's a good option (for me at least). I can do 2 cam setup and match shots too.

EDIT: Just an idea. What if B&H starts bundling an URSA 4K EF (or PL) and URSA Mini 4K EF (or PL) for $3995? :D That's a better match and deal for offloading old inventory. :D



You know the data used with the 4.6k at 4:1 is almost the same as the URSA 4k at 3:1 right? Also if you shoot 2.4:1 you save so much more card space.

Just saying that the workflow is almost the same if not less so that should not be an issue on deciding what camera you want. The highlight retention and rolloff alone is worth the price of admission. $3499 for the upgrade plan is a steal.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Apr 04, 2017 8:10 pm

Hey Vic, nice hearing from ya! I do know that but thanks for pointing out. If the 4.6K turret arrives, then I would still get it but I'm not keeping my hopes high. The $3499 upgrade deal does not apply to me cause I bought a used URSA. I would have went for that but I lost the battle. :( Anyway, of my paid projects to date, I have only two (or three) projects that the client wanted in 4K. Everything else is still in HD or 2K. With that said, a 4K is already future proof. :) That's where I am thinking that it's not advisable for me to get anything more than the 4K mini URSA to complement the big URSA. It's nice to have toys but I rather get something I can pay for in a shoot or two (cash no debt) and not have the overhead cost of owning many cameras that just depreciate more in time. I've been spending more on FF and cine lenses these days. They tend to survive time and keep their value - well depending on the kind. Right? :)
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Apr 05, 2017 9:53 pm

I just get an email from B&H that my order for 4.6K turret has been canceled. B&H says that turret "has been discontinued." :o :evil: :( :shock: :cry: :? :| :roll: :oops: :!:

Is this true does anyone else have more information? I am an original URSA owner but I choose not to do the Ursa Mini Pro upgrade I would like the turret instead.

Thanks,
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Apr 05, 2017 10:06 pm

Yeah and this is new. Not good.

.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Apr 05, 2017 10:13 pm

Just got this from B&H I'm pretty pissed.... :|
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Apr 05, 2017 11:07 pm

There has been no announcement of discontinuing the turrets by us so there is some confusion obviously with this email. I've notified the appropriate people so we can get this cleared up.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Apr 05, 2017 11:14 pm

I'm so pissed too. That's it... End of the promised feature of upgradability for the URSA.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Apr 05, 2017 11:18 pm

I don't think Blackmagic has lied or keeps lying about the turret, I think it's a serious company, or am I wrong, Tony?


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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 06, 2017 12:43 am

I was hoping to be the first to get my hands on the turret and now I am booted to the back of the line. It's not fair B&H why do you do this to me. Why do you cancel my order without my permission after I waited so long. Don't you realize that is cruel. :?

This is the second email B&H send to me claiming the turret is discontinued and my order was canceled.

RE: B&H Order # xxxxxxxxxx

Dear Brian Gulliver,

On 9/7/2015, you placed a backorder for the Blackmagic Design URSA 4.6K Turret (PL Mount) B&H # BLURSAT46KPL. Unfortunately, the manufacturer has informed us that this item is discontinued and they will not be able to fulfill your order. Being as such, we have canceled this item off your order.

If you would like advice on a possible replacement product, our sales department would be happy to assist you in finding an item that will serve your needs. They can be contacted either by calling 1-800-606-6969, emailing sales@bhphotovideo.com or via live chat.

We apologize for the inconvenience this has caused and look forward to serving you again in the future.

Please let us know if we can provide any further assistance.

Thank you, we appreciate your business.


Sincerely,
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 06, 2017 1:54 am

B&H is not Blackmagic Designs, and they do Not control product development. Tony stares, the Turret has Not been discontinued. So no,reason to be upset. End of story!
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Ken Cooper

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 06, 2017 1:39 pm

I too received an email yesterday >

B&H Order # 559561710 made on 8/18/2015

***

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 06, 2017 1:52 pm

OH MY GOOD!!! I hope Tony is right here and its just a mistake. If this is really happening, going with black magic was the worst decision i ever made. The ursa wasn't cheap and the turret was the reason why i went for it. I love the camera, but if there is no turret its not worth anything.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 06, 2017 1:58 pm

Maybe its just a bug in the email notification system on the BH server... or something like that. Because the 4.6 still shows up on the website. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... ctive.html

BUT!!! The price is gone!!!i think

Maybe it gets more expensive... I personally don't care. I just WANT it :)

Or maybe its a DIFFERENT product... better than originally planned, and BH decided to cancel the original product :)

Or you will have to send your camera in, and out of fear of getting sued from early-orders, they decided to cancel and put a new product later.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 06, 2017 2:06 pm

ALSO... there is something up on the BH website. when you search like this: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/contro ... av-Search=

and click on the BIG ursa item, you get redirected to the mini
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 06, 2017 4:10 pm

Your getting excited over what B&H puts out is a waste of energy. :roll: They are in the business of selling what they have in stock, and backorders backorders more than a year old tend to get purged, canceled, etc. like I said, this is a stock form letter. Also their site is known to have incorrect info on it, so I would take this with a big grain of salt too.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 06, 2017 5:35 pm

Denny Smith wrote:Your getting excited over what B&H puts out is a waste of energy. :roll: They are in the business of selling what they have in stock, and backorders backorders more than a year old tend to get purged, canceled, etc. like I said, this is a stock form letter. Also their site is known to have incorrect info on it, so I would take this with a big grain of salt too.
Cheers


It still could be an error but it's not just B&H Denny, its other sellers as well as Adorama so something has been sent out by accident or misread.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 06, 2017 5:37 pm

OK, good point Vic, thanks, I did not know Adorama had sent out s similar notice.
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Daniel DarkSide

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 06, 2017 7:56 pm

So after 2 years waiting despite what BM said i was just sent my refund for the 4.6k Turret... I am just at a loss for words at this point! What a joke shame on me I guess for haveing faith in the IDEA of BlackMagic

:(
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 06, 2017 9:54 pm

Also, is canceling these old backorders, and refunding any deposits, may mean the new Ursa Turret update is going to be much more expensive than previously listed. By canceling the existing B/O, the old price is no longer on the table either, and the new price can be charged on all the replaced or new orders.
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rick.lang

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Apr 07, 2017 5:04 am

Interesting point, Denny. The original $2,000 price was very attractive. We shall know likely in about two weeks. I wonder if Grant Petty will address it in his NAB 2017 email to everyone.


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James Parker

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Apr 07, 2017 11:55 pm

I got the same email and it's not from B& H. My order was canceled from another vendor we use.


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Denny Smith

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat Apr 08, 2017 1:51 am

Yes, it is apparent that BM has canceled the back orders, and not the vendors, for the reason I stated above, or in fact, the 4.6K Turret upgrade has been recently scrapped. Like Rick said, "BM to make an announcement, news at NAB!" :roll:
Cheers
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Ben Mart

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat Apr 08, 2017 10:09 am

Denny Smith wrote:Yes, it is apparent that BM has canceled the back orders, and not the vendors, for the reason I stated above, or in fact, the 4.6K Turret upgrade has been recently scrapped. Like Rick said, "BM to make an announcement, news at NAB!" :roll:
Cheers

Think we have to stay positive unless your...

Pints half empty.

The 4.6k turret has been cancelled and the BMD boffins have got egg on their faces, hopefully not as I doubt the boffins couldn't figure it out.

Or the pints half full

2-New Ursa Pro with 4.6k sensor all in one.
3- Total redesign of Turret with the new interchangable lens mount(hoping for this one)






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Ken Cooper

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat Apr 08, 2017 1:05 pm

To start off the weekend - with some humor...

***

Trying to make money with a 'Back-Ordered' product is (visually) impossible - unless we 'open' our eyes to look at new options...

Perhaps someone with more market knowledge than I, can concoct new instruments such as 'Back-Order' insurance, 'Back-Order' derivatives, etc...

***

The following paste, shows the financial figures as of 2008 >

From > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivatives_market

These are options contracts and futures contracts on a whole range of underlying products. The members of the exchange hold positions in these contracts with the exchange, who acts as central counterparty. When one party goes long (buys a futures contract), another goes short (sells). When a new contract is introduced, the total position in the contract is zero. Therefore, the sum of all the long positions must be equal to the sum of all the short positions. In other words, risk is transferred from one party to another. The total notional amount of all the outstanding positions at the end of June 2004 stood at $53 trillion. (source: Bank for International Settlements (BIS): [1]). That figure grew to $81 trillion by the end of March 2008.

***

I like the part where it says 'risk is transferred from one party to another'... :)

That's the 'long' and 'short' of it... :)

kc
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rick.lang

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat Apr 08, 2017 3:25 pm

That's scarier than any announcement from BMD regarding future product availability. Helps keep our challenges in perspective. On any given day you can't predict how the market will react in two days. Derivatives are like gambling blind, unless you have the power to manipulate the markets (which will land you in jail if you survive the public hanging).


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PaulDelVecchio

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Apr 12, 2017 5:44 pm

Just got a notification from my retailer as well that they cancelled my turret order because "Blackmagic has no plans on moving forward with this product so we are going to cancel your order for now."

Well... that's.... messy. Whatever communication issue there is, or if this is actually true... either way, it's disappointing. I would never have spent my money on the Ursa if I knew this was the case. I hope this doesn't mean NO future turret upgrades for the Ursa. I was really looking forward to having a camera with high frame rates that the Ursa 4.6k was touting.

Oh well... disappointing.
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rick.lang

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Apr 12, 2017 5:48 pm

Perhaps in another 10-12 days, this will all be officially clarified by Grant Petty.


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Gavin_c_clark

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 13, 2017 4:58 am

More than just disappointing, I'd say it's clearly false advertising.

If they'd have sold the ursa as a non upgradable camera I wouldn't have bought it.

As far as the £3200 time limited upgrade path they did offer, that's clearly not the upgrade they advertised originally.

Let's hope they make good on this somehow at nab.
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Ellory Yu

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 13, 2017 6:42 am

Tony Rivera wrote:There has been no announcement of discontinuing the turrets by us so there is some confusion obviously with this email. I've notified the appropriate people so we can get this cleared up.

So is this another attempt to make us hopeful again? Sometimes I think this is the parity...
BMD ----------> WH
Petty ----------> Trump
Rivera ----------> Spicer
Us ----------> Drinking the Kool Aid
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Ben Mart

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 13, 2017 7:27 pm

PaulDelVecchio wrote:Just got a notification from my retailer as well that they cancelled my turret order because "Blackmagic has no plans on moving forward with this product so we are going to cancel your order for now."

Well... that's.... messy. Whatever communication issue there is, or if this is actually true... either way, it's disappointing. I would never have spent my money on the Ursa if I knew this was the case. I hope this doesn't mean NO future turret upgrades for the Ursa. I was really looking forward to having a camera with high frame rates that the Ursa 4.6k was touting.

Oh well... disappointing.

Paul I wouldn't give up hope...

I still think BMD boffins can pull the turret off...let's not forget they gave the world a HD raw cinema camera that fits into your pocket!

For under a grand.

If not, so be it - the BMD boffins aren't that clever, but they still make nice cameras.

Personally I would wait until it comes from the horses mouth, although messages from vendors aren't reassuring.

BMD should have the decency to clarify the situation.





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