URSA Mini 4.6k The Original™ Magenta Cast Issue

Benton, I'll do some tests with a very small shutter angle and shoot with little motion so I can try a few different T-stops outdoors... If it stops raining! I'll try to find some bright and evenly lit neutral subjects.


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Benton, I'll do some tests with a very small shutter angle and shoot with little motion so I can try a few different T-stops outdoors... If it stops raining! I'll try to find some bright and evenly lit neutral subjects.


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Have you tried any ND Filters? I'm interested to see how it looks around F8 or so.

RMA Update

It has been 6 Weeks since German Distributor sent it to BMD UK.

1) The UK Office has confirmed the Magenta Issue as being an incompatibility with certain lenses.
And that they will not be replacing my camera as it is 'OK' but my lenses are incompatible.

I am following this discussion before I decided if I will invest in an URSA Mini. I think it is a poor joke to state that because a camera is imcompatible with lenses, they will not care about such a Magenta Issue.

Or is there somewhere an official list that you have received BEFORE you did your purchase, what lenses you can use and what not?

Andrew, I have the SLR Magic Vari-ND II 82mm but waiting for the Heliopan brass 62-82mm step-up ring so I can attach the ND to the 50mm APO. The ring and a B+W UVIR Cut 86mm screw-on will be here Tuesday. That will give me a proper setup to shoot and put the lens and sensor through its paces on Wednesday.


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and that helps how Emilian ??

Jeff, its called fun. Having some fun now and then helps a lot during life

Jeff, its called fun. Having some fun now and then helps a lot during life

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60n5Grd678U

Oh man, you just had to bring Jimi into this, didn't you?

Oh man, you just had to bring Jimi into this, didn't you?

Seems like a pretty fitting song, no?

Oh man, you just had to bring Jimi into this, didn't you?

Seems like a pretty fitting song, no?

It is... and it never hurts to hear that song no matter the occasion.

Joshua,
any updates?

Finally have enough bits and pieces now to do a meaningful test. At the front B+W UVIR 486M 86mm. Next the SLR Magic Vari-ND II 82mm on the Heliopan 62-82mm step-up ring mounted on the SLR Magic APO 50mm prime. Zebras at 90% and showed no clipping in raw open gate.

The first eight tests all have the Vari-ND set to Max (6 stops ND) and the aperture varies from T2.1 through T22 in one stop increments. The next eight tests vary the Aperture from T22 with the Vari-ND set to Min (0.4 or 1 ⅓ stops) through to T2.1 with the Vari-ND set to Max (ND 1,8 or 6 stops).

The purpose of these tests illustrate the consistency of the colour of the Vari-ND at different strengths and I think they look fairly consistent in colour. The tests also indicate how the sensor preforms through a full range of iris adjustment. These are taken from the DNG images but reduced in size so that I can upload them.

T2.1 ND 1.8

UM46PL_1_2016-05-31_1422_C0000_000000.png (404.49 KiB) Viewed 10312 times

T2.8 ND 1.8

UM46PL_1_2016-05-31_1423_C0001_000000.png (409.11 KiB) Viewed 10312 times

T4 ND 1.8

UM46PL_1_2016-05-31_1423_C0002_000000.png (532.12 KiB) Viewed 10312 times

T5.6 ND 1.8

UM46PL_1_2016-05-31_1423_C0003_000000.png (596.69 KiB) Viewed 10307 times

I think the best exposure of this set of frames is the T5.6 or the T4. This is right where I want to be with the iris on exteriors on a sunny day at ND 1.8. Pleased overall with the combination of filters including the B+W 486M UVIR Cut.

T8 ND 1.8

UM46PL_1_2016-05-31_1423_C0004_000000.png (659.84 KiB) Viewed 10307 times

T11 ND 1,8

UM46PL_1_2016-05-31_1424_C0005_000000.png (682.47 KiB) Viewed 10307 times

T16 ND 1.8

UM46PL_1_2016-05-31_1424_C0006_000000.png (691.03 KiB) Viewed 10304 times

T22 ND 1.8

UM46PL_1_2016-05-31_1424_C0007_000000.png (696.91 KiB) Viewed 10304 times

The amount of colour variation shown by these downscaled .png files is far greater than what I see in Resolve displaying the DNG images at 5K resolution. I can also adjust the gain on these ‘bad’ images and get to a clear looking sky easily. But it is better to nail the exposure in camera rather than relying on pushing and pulling exposure in post except for creative purposes al a Film Noir for example.

T22 SLR Magic Vari-ND Min ND 0.4

UM46PL_1_2016-05-31_1425_C0008_000000.png (405.54 KiB) Viewed 10298 times

T16 SLR Magic Vari-ND Min ND 0.4

UM46PL_1_2016-05-31_1426_C0009_000000.png (400.57 KiB) Viewed 10298 times

T11 SLR Magic Vari-ND 5 ND 0.5

UM46PL_1_2016-05-31_1426_C0010_000000.png (399.63 KiB) Viewed 10298 times

T8 SLR Magic Vari-ND 8 ND 0.8

UM46PL_1_2016-05-31_1427_C0011_000000.png (402.55 KiB) Viewed 10293 times

T5.6 SLR Magic Vari-ND 9.4 ND 1.1

UM46PL_1_2016-05-31_1428_C0012_000000.png (404.27 KiB) Viewed 10293 times

T4 SLR Magic Vari-ND Min ND 1.2

UM46PL_1_2016-05-31_1429_C0013_000000.png (403.83 KiB) Viewed 10293 times

T2.8 SLR Magic Vari-ND 10.7 ND 1.6

UM46PL_1_2016-05-31_1430_C0014_000000.png (402.16 KiB) Viewed 10285 times

T2.1 SLR Magic Vari-ND Max ND 1.8

UM46PL_1_2016-05-31_1430_C0015_000000.png (401.64 KiB) Viewed 10285 times

In this second batch although the sky looks quite bright, there was no zebra showing with zebras set to 90%. When I looked at the parade though the blue was slightly clipping. I am going to standardize on zebras at 85% based on this experience. Live and learn, eh? As for the consistency of colour with the SLR Magic Vari-ND, the shots do vary in brightness but you can see why in the comment on each shot. I was varying the iris a full stop at a time but the changes in ND filtration were not full stops. I must try and calculate where the full stop changes would be if they were marked on the dial of the filter.

All of these were shot at 5600K and have had zero manipulation in Resolve 12.5.

The first group clearly indicate magenta problems in the corners but those shots may have been underexposed at T8 and below so I’m likely going to play with these in Resolve to see if I can get a better image from T8 and T11 but I do intend to actually shoot around T4-T5.6 when I can.

In this second batch although the sky looks quite bright, there was no zebra showing with zebras set to 90%. When I looked at the parade though the blue was slightly clipping. I am going to standardize on zebras at 85% based on this experience. Live and learn, eh? As for the consistency of colour with the SLR Magic Vari-ND, the shots do vary in brightness but you can see why in the comment on each shot. I was varying the iris a full stop at a time but the changes in ND filtration were not full stops. I must try and calculate where the full stop changes would be if they were marked on the dial of the filter.

All of these were shot at 5600K and have had zero manipulation in Resolve 12.5.

The first group clearly indicate magenta problems in the corners but those shots may have been underexposed at T8 and below so I’m likely going to play with these in Resolve to see if I can get a better image from T8 and T11 but I do intend to actually shoot around T4-T5.6 when I can.

Great tests rick. Although, i'm not quite sure whats going on in the second round of tests, why did the magenta corners go away? I'm just a little confused.

Rick those shots with the vari-nd filter at f8 - f22 really helps to eliminate that magenta cast.

Great tests rick. Although, i'm not quite sure whats going on in the second round of tests, why did the magenta corners go away? I'm just a little confused.

Thanks, Andrew. The second set of tests are all ETTR going from T22 and Min ND 0.4 to T2.1 with Max ND 1.8. The steps in between aren’t even stops though, but I was just using the 90% zebras to guide me as I changed the aperture in full stops. I could probably do a better test in which the aperture opens a stop while the ND darkens a stop, but that’s not easy to do exactly with the Vari-ND. When I use the regular ND filters in a matte box, I’ll be testing with a perfect match of iris and ND strength.

Rick those shots with the vari-nd filter at f8 - f22 really helps to eliminate that magenta cast.

I’ve been playing around in Resolve balancing the levels in the different exposures. Pretty interesting and all positive. As I mentioned before, I can easily give you a very bad shot, but I’m only interested in creating good shots and I don’t think my sensor is so bad that it’s going to spoil a good shot. Having enough light is important though.

And I’m looking forward to seeing what happens with zebras at 85%. I’m suspecting that will be an excellent solution to eliminate any single channel clipping.

And by the way, when the parade showed a tiny bit of clipping on the scale, I could pull it down, so I don’t think I was hard clipping. I have highlight recovery turned on in Resolve.

Like Denny says, I’m having fun with this again after that initial letdown with the magenta corners. I think I’ll manage most times and hope the firmware update takes care of things that might be problematic. Need to shoot lots more and they exposing for the scene rather than ETTR. So much to learn in the next month so I’m ready for that wedding shoot.

This is an APO lens correct? My hopes that this sort of lens would make the magenta corners go away are dashed. I guess all we can do now is wait and hope for a solution.

Rick those shots with the vari-nd filter at f8 - f22 really helps to eliminate that magenta cast.

I’ve been playing around in Resolve balancing the levels in the different exposures. Pretty interesting and all positive. As I mentioned before, I can easily give you a very bad shot, but I’m only interested in creating good shots and I don’t think my sensor is so bad that it’s going to spoil a good shot. Having enough light is important though.

And I’m looking forward to seeing what happens with zebras at 85%. I’m suspecting that will be an excellent solution to eliminate any single channel clipping.

And by the way, when the parade showed a tiny bit of clipping on the scale, I could pull it down, so I don’t think I was hard clipping. I have highlight recovery turned on in Resolve.

Like Denny says, I’m having fun with this again after that initial letdown with the magenta corners. I think I’ll manage most times and hope the firmware update takes care of things that might be problematic. Need to shoot lots more and they exposing for the scene rather than ETTR. So much to learn in the next month so I’m ready for that wedding shoot.

Love the positive attitude. So far it's not something that will stop me from shooting. Now that Blackmagic is working on the problem it is a small comfort, and hopefully Blackmagic will start giving those incremental updates soon before your daughters wedding in July.

Rick, would you mind to bundle some DNGs for download?
You could use wetransfer.com for a temp link or I can put those files onto my server for others to download, if you want.

Robert, I could try putting those DNGs in my Dropbox. I haven’t used Dropbox for sharing, but Ill take a look…

Robert, I sent you a PM regarding this.

Here is the link to the above DNG files. You don’t need to have DropBox to access these files.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/53k3ns5wbyes ... BG1Aa?dl=0

Any Updates?

Exactly what I said... Joshua?
Any updates?

Any Updates?

+1

[Joshua Helling]

Joshua,
any updates?

Sorry about not updating sooner. Hang tight...I'm expecting to hear something more meaty pretty soon.

Joshua,
any updates?

Sorry about not updating sooner. Hang tight...I'm expecting to hear something more meaty pretty soon.

Hi Joshua, could you at all tell us about why we haven't received any cameras in the UK for coming up to 7 weeks?

Joshua,
any updates?

Sorry about not updating sooner. Hang tight...I'm expecting to hear something more meaty pretty soon.

Hi Joshua, could you at all tell us about why we haven't received any cameras in the UK for coming up to 7 weeks?

+1

Silvio Bonomi

I'm still in the process of finding little real-world tests for the UM4.6k and loving it more and more. Was looking around last week to see what little personal project I could crank out with the camera for another test and luckily my buddy was embarking on a fun project, worthy of a few hours of testing time. I'm happy with the result and the camera performed beautifully. This is a test of a mix of raw, prores film & rec709 video. Roundtripped from Resolve proxies->FCPX edit->Resolve grading->FCPX audio and finishing.

Had no issues with magenta (that said, I shot wide open for virtually every shot). Unfortunately I forgot my 82mm VariND and had to use the 77mm with the Hoya IR cut, which does vignette at 18mm on that lens, but such is life. Footage is mostly quite contrasty, with highlights held beautifully and so much shadow detail I had to crush it quite a bit in post to bring it down to where I wanted. Not used to 15 stops but man is it a blessing coming from the Pocket and GH4. The EVF is amazing.

LOVE this camera. It's a joy to use (and I just got my Shoot35 FF yesterday, which is awesome). The images this thing produces are like buttah!

Here's the link:

Great - but I still miss the info if the issue is solved or not, for my decision to purchase the URSA mini or the FS5 with raw update or wait for an upcoming GH5!

Gary, nice; if that's a 'test' of the camera, I need to up my game!


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I'm still in the process of finding little real-world tests for the UM4.6k and loving it more and more. Was looking around last week to see what little personal project I could crank out with the camera for another test and luckily my buddy was embarking on a fun project, worthy of a few hours of testing time. I'm happy with the result and the camera performed beautifully. This is a test of a mix of raw, prores film & rec709 video. Roundtripped from Resolve proxies->FCPX edit->Resolve grading->FCPX audio and finishing.

Had no issues with magenta (that said, I shot wide open for virtually every shot). Unfortunately I forgot my 82mm VariND and had to use the 77mm with the Hoya IR cut, which does vignette at 18mm on that lens, but such is life. Footage is mostly quite contrasty, with highlights held beautifully and so much shadow detail I had to crush it quite a bit in post to bring it down to where I wanted. Not used to 15 stops but man is it a blessing coming from the Pocket and GH4. The EVF is amazing.

LOVE this camera. It's a joy to use (and I just got my Shoot35 FF yesterday, which is awesome). The images this thing produces are like buttah!

Here's the link:

Very nice piece Gary! And the Stellated Icosahedron rocks!

Gary, nice; if that's a 'test' of the camera, I need to up my game!

Ha, thanks. Whenever I get a new camera I need to actually work on real projects to get a sense of how it will work for me in production.... bench tests don't give me the confidence I need to put it on a client job. The UM4.6k is a big jump up for me (previously used BMPCC, GH4 and A7s) and I essentially shut down all client work until September and have 4-5 personal projects lined up this summer. This last test (the icosahedron) was mostly about usability, magenta, and audio. Not having the FF was tough... My goal was to shoot the entire project at 1.8 to see how well the EVF worked for focus, and now with the FF it's a freakin breeze. Just having the ability to shoot hand-held at 1.8 and actually rack focus accurately is kind of a dream. And this was also a test of the on-board preamps, which performed beautifully. The next test is going to be mostly interiors, close-ups, etc etc. Going to be a fun summer!

Excellent approach. Hope we are able to share the fruits of your personal projects this summer. As for magenta, yesterday's tests on my Mini 4.6K did not seem to exhibit magenta corners at all. 'Knock on plastic' but all I can think of is that having the SLR Magic Vari-ND and the B+W UVIR Cut mounted always on the 50mm APO is helping somehow!


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Excellent approach. Hope we are able to share the fruits of your personal projects this summer. As for magenta, yesterday's tests on my Mini 4.6K did not seem to exhibit magenta corners at all. 'Knock on plastic' but all I can think of is that having the SLR Magic Vari-ND and the B+W UVIR Cut mounted always on the 50mm APO is helping somehow!

Agreed that using enough density to keep the lens open is a good technique for mitigating magenta. I usually shoot fairly open anyway and never find the need to stop down smaller than 5.6. I use the Tiffen/Hoya combination and am happy with it. (I'm not much of a pixel peeper and find that Resolve can always get me where I want to go vis a vis eliminating any color casts.)

Will share as I progress thru the summer. Nothing earth shaking but if these projects go well it will be a fun 3 months. Go out and shoot!

Still no news regarding the issue ? :/

Would have loved to be able to use the camera for all my summer projects.

Still about two weeks until the summer solstice. I'm hoping they roll out various fixes with the firmware 4.0 release. Originally expected in June, so keep your toes crossed!

And if feasible shoot around T2.8-T5.6 if that is an efficacious workaround. Or shoot with a Vari-ND or polarizer if that appears to improve the behaviour of light falling on the sensor as I'm postulating in my earlier post today.

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Thanks for the advice but I haven't bought it yet :p No way I'm buying it before the slightest information about a fix. I would if it was software related, but it's not :/

Soon after getting my 2nd Ursa Mini 4.6k I was able to take it on our family trip to Kauai. Did a lot of shooting. Lots of blue skies. Looked out for the magenta edges. Is it perfect? Maybe not, but I think the image is a million times better than my last camera.

You'll see some mixed footage here, some Ursa, some go pro, some DJI X3 and X5.

Vgo


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That's my kind of test, Scott. Super fun, great music (especially the meatball song... best version I've ever heard!). The UM footage really stands out... perfect or not, it's a gorgeous image.

Soon after getting my 2nd Ursa Mini 4.6k I was able to take it on our family trip to Kauai. Did a lot of shooting. Lots of blue skies. Looked out for the magenta edges. Is it perfect? Maybe not, but I think the image is a million times better than my last camera.

You'll see some mixed footage here, some Ursa, some go pro, some DJI X3 and X5.

That's my kind of test, Scott. Super fun, great music (especially the meatball song... best version I've ever heard!). The UM footage really stands out... perfect or not, it's a gorgeous image.

Soon after getting my 2nd Ursa Mini 4.6k I was able to take it on our family trip to Kauai. Did a lot of shooting. Lots of blue skies. Looked out for the magenta edges. Is it perfect? Maybe not, but I think the image is a million times better than my last camera.

You'll see some mixed footage here, some Ursa, some go pro, some DJI X3 and X5.

Hey thank you Gary! Even though hauling the Ursa Mini (which isn't entirely mini) around the beaches of Kauai wasn't easy, I was super glad we brought it. Haha, and I'm glad you enjoyed that last little bonus at the end of the video! I had to beg my wife to let me include it, I thought it was hilarious.

And yeah, I agree, the Ursa Mini footage really stands out. It's so rich compared to the other footage, it has soul. Thanks for watching!

Even though hauling the Ursa Mini (which isn't entirely mini) around the beaches of Kauai wasn't easy, I was super glad we brought it. Haha, and I'm glad you enjoyed that last little bonus at the end of the video! I had to beg my wife to let me include it, I thought it was hilarious.

And yeah, I agree, the Ursa Mini footage really stands out. It's so rich compared to the other footage, it has soul. Thanks for watching!

Seriously, man... that's a commitment, especially with kids in tow. Plus you brought the Inspire, which is kind of nuts for a family vacation. But yes, we are nuts and I understand why you did it, and appreciate your test all the more. I also have an Inspire, with the X5R and Osmo, and the UM4.6k footage matches really well with it once you get the X5R into BMDFilm. I never thought I'd actually be able to own tools of this quality... it's quite incredible!

Soon after getting my 2nd Ursa Mini 4.6k I was able to take it on our family trip to Kauai. Did a lot of shooting. Lots of blue skies. Looked out for the magenta edges. Is it perfect? Maybe not, but I think the image is a million times better than my last camera.

You'll see some mixed footage here, some Ursa, some go pro, some DJI X3 and X5.

This is fantastic, the kind of thing I use my gear for. Did you get out past the 2 mile mark on the Na Pali coast trail? I got my BMCC and tripod out to about the 7 mile mark. Things really get amazing around mile 4 or so. It is tough work but some of the best scenery I have ever captured.

Soon after getting my 2nd Ursa Mini 4.6k I was able to take it on our family trip to Kauai. Did a lot of shooting. Lots of blue skies. Looked out for the magenta edges. Is it perfect? Maybe not, but I think the image is a million times better than my last camera.

You'll see some mixed footage here, some Ursa, some go pro, some DJI X3 and X5.

This is fantastic, the kind of thing I use my gear for. Did you get out past the 2 mile mark on the Na Pali coast trail? I got my BMCC and tripod out to about the 7 mile mark. Things really get amazing around mile 4 or so. It is tough work but some of the best scenery I have ever captured.

Oh man! No, we got to the beach and had to go back. My extended family was watching our kids for the day and we had to go back sooner so we didn't make our babysitters mad... That's awesome that you got your camera out there though! Is the footage posted online anywhere?