External sound with timecode

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Margus Voll

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External sound with timecode

PostWed Feb 06, 2013 8:08 pm

Hi.

I wonder if anyone have considered when filming with bmcc and external sound recorder like Sound Devices
how would be the workflow ?

If it would be possible to extract TC from sdi and feed it to sound recorder tehn it could be done
but question is how accurate is that cameras internal clock?

Even with external clock in studio it even can slip some 0,25 frames per day.

Any ideas ?
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Kristian Lam

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Re: External sound with timecode

PostThu Feb 07, 2013 3:00 am

Alternatively, does the camera output timecode? You can feed it into the camera and Resolve will convert LTC recorded in the audio track into timecode.
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Kholi Hicks

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Re: External sound with timecode

PostThu Feb 07, 2013 5:55 am

I experimented with this, but it was the opposite way around:

You use the recorder and a lock-it box, pull the timecode from the Sound Recorder with the lockit then strap the lockit box to the camera, feed the Timecode audio signal into the L and R ports and record that. Then you need a program to extract the timecode in the audio channels of your footage, and it'll sync.

It doesn't seem to be a possibility to jam the camera with the same lockit box I.E. the camera doesn't really support timecode right now. IT has its own way of doing things for the time being. The best thing you can do, at this moment, is use a slate (or alternative), buy a Juiced Link RM333 and run sound into camera from a mixer that's also recording audio.

I did that on a short film last year, the audio running into Blackmagic via the Juiced Link and a Sound Devices unit sounds good to me.
Kholi Hicks
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Margus Voll

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Re: External sound with timecode

PostThu Feb 07, 2013 8:03 am

Kristian you meant if sound recorder will give out timecode?

Yes it does.

It seems simplest way if resolve will read ltc from audio channel.

I have to check it out!
Margus Voll, C.S.I.

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sirandyhoffman

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Re: External sound with timecode

PostThu Feb 07, 2013 9:47 am

The BMCC records audio internally as a reference from it's built in microphone. You can then use a program like Pluraleyes to sync the audio tracks based off sound waves.

Andy
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Margus Voll

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Re: External sound with timecode

PostThu Feb 07, 2013 11:57 am

Yes i can see that.

What was meant was if you feed TC signal to audio input in one channel it should be
Readable by resolve and would sync nicely there.

I tend to like this way better if i would film in raw then i would need to make proxy files
For editor anyway.

As i do not have my camera yet i can not test it out.

But i oike the idea already.
Margus Voll, C.S.I.

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John Brawley

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Re: External sound with timecode

PostThu Feb 07, 2013 1:31 pm

This is EACTLY the work around I've been using...and (pats self on the back) I think was my suggestion to add to Resolve.....(9.04 I think)

So you can record onto the audio track of the camera. LTC code and Resolve will use this *auxiliary* TC as the source TC instead of the ACTUAL file embedded TC, which is really just TOD code from the system clock.

This way you can get frame accurate post sound sync, depending on how accurate you're clocks are of course.

TC in general is a pet project of mine. ;-)

Also, AVID's will read the TC equally as well as AUX tc.....(shoud you choose to SHOOT DNx or transcode to DNx from RAW)

jb
Last edited by John Brawley on Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Margus Voll

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Re: External sound with timecode

PostThu Feb 07, 2013 4:35 pm

Big thumbs up to you John and to BM for this!

So we can not say that TC is not possible with BMCC.

It sounds even simpler than the way i suggested.

Central TC to camera and to sound. This is really great to know.

I wonder if i can sleep today, so exited :D
Margus Voll, C.S.I.

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Kholi Hicks

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Re: External sound with timecode

PostThu Feb 07, 2013 5:20 pm

Oh cool I didn't know Resolve could read the timecode and apply it to proxies.

That sounds great. I may have to try that out officially on a shoot to see how smooth it is on a roundtrip.
Kholi Hicks
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GregAusina

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Re: External sound with timecode

PostSat Apr 13, 2013 7:39 pm

Have any of you thought about feeding a timecode into the LANC port of the camera? The clock boxes like the Ambient ALL-601 have the ability to output via a LANC port. I have tried last week with no success. The camera does'nt seem to decode the signal. It would be great to have both a TC and sound recording.
John, maybe you could talk about that with Blackmagic guys. They seem to have a good understanding of what you propose :D
Regards, Greg.
Grégoire AUSINA / Gisèle productions
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GregAusina

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Re: External sound with timecode

PostThu May 02, 2013 10:04 pm

Wrong way. It seems that no clock box is able to output the TC-code trough the LANC port. I thought the ALL601 could do that but it was a mistake. The guys at ambient.de have explained me that it can only read the TC-code from a few sony camera.
Maybe ultrascope could be added a masterclock and could sync several cine cameras via thunderbolt?
What do you think ?
Grégoire AUSINA / Gisèle productions
Davinci 16.3 beta on Windows 10 (1903) / Nvidia studio driver 456.38/ Dual Xeon E-2650v4 / supermicro X10DRG-Q / 64 Go RAM / GUI GTX 1070 / Cuda 2x GTX 1080 Ti - FSI CM250 - Tangent Elements - Accusys A12S3-p+
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bandersd

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Re: External sound with timecode

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 6:08 am

Hi, I too have had no luck in getting Resolve to Update TC from Audio - LTC...

I am getting a solid audio TC on track 1 + 2 (Sound recordist says inputing this audio knocks out on board mic, but I can live with out guide audio if I can get LTC to work).

I understand from another post that the source TC does not change on clicking the Update, but the exported file will now contain an Aux TC track.

Opening Exported dailies in Avid shows no Aux TC. (I am exporting to MXF DNxHD 1080p24 120 8bits from Camera DNG)

Q1) Is there some other setting within resolve that needs to be checked to configure export with Aux TC?

Q2) Failing this - can Avid "read" the audio LTC itself and create its Aux TC from there?

Any help would be greatly appreciated - Manual sync pile is getting bigger and bigger...
Cheers, David
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MagicAndMayhem

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Re: External sound with timecode

PostThu Sep 05, 2013 3:22 pm

Margus Voll wrote:Hi.

I wonder if anyone have considered when filming with bmcc and external sound recorder like Sound Devices
how would be the workflow ?

If it would be possible to extract TC from sdi and feed it to sound recorder tehn it could be done
but question is how accurate is that cameras internal clock?

Even with external clock in studio it even can slip some 0,25 frames per day.

Any ideas ?



Use the 744t or 788t as your master TC. Jam sync from the Sound Devices to your Lockit box. Connect your lockit box to one of your audio on the camera. I'm not sure how to do it in Resolve but here is a short tutorial for Avid.

http://provideocoalition.com/ssimmons/s ... _is_online

There has to be tutorials online to do this in Resolve.

If you have multiple cameras that you would like to sync and an iphone, there is an app called movieslate found here:

http://www.movie-slate.com/Timecode_Sync

I've used this several times to sync multiple GoPros and an EX1 to a 744t master.

Simplified workflow is as follows

Use 744t as master timecode. Jam sync lockit box to 744t. Plug iPhone into Lockit box. Use movieslate as visual slate to the GoPros. Insert lockit box into one audio channel in EX1. Use shotgun mic on EX1 for reference audio into channel two on EX1. Everything syncs in post using Avid aux TC function.
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Chris Hocking

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Re: External sound with timecode

PostFri Sep 06, 2013 11:09 pm

There's also this handy plugin (although it is a bit expensive compared to a free version of Resolve):

http://www.videotoolshed.com/product/26/auxtc-reader
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Claude Floyd

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Re: External sound with timecode

PostMon Apr 14, 2014 2:14 am

What about this?
(I'm talking about the sound feature)
Do you guys think this can be achieved without modding the camera?
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John Christon

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Re: External sound with timecode

PostMon Apr 14, 2014 2:48 am

One gripe I have with this workflow (hope you're listening Kristian!) is I wish you could have the internal mic as one channel and then feed timecode to another channel and then in resolve say to sync via channel 1 or 2 audio accordingly. this would mean you would always have a failsafe of the internal mic on one of the channels. I've been screwed, by my own sloppiness, by something happening to my audio device, whether it's TC or a preamp or batteries dying on something, and me not noticing it (which will hopefully be easier with the audio meters). And since once you plug in any audio to the BMCC's you lose the internal mic, it would be nice if it could always keep the internal on channel 2 if you wanted, so even if you dropped audio or TC, you'd still have a point of reference to sync to.

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