Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

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Grant Petty

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Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostFri Feb 08, 2013 3:55 pm

Hi,

Things are going much faster with EF model camera production, and we have been getting out a very steady stream of cameras to all of our distributors around the world weekly. Though not at the full volume each week we would like, we are getting many more sensors per week than at the time of the January update, and have been very happy with the quality of the sensors coming in.

Also, I know there have been questions regarding the backorder and which regions are getting cameras first. Camera shipments are being sent out evenly between the offices, and will continue to be shipped that way.

With the MFT model, we are still planning on starting to ship some of those once we have gotten through more of the EF backorder.

And glad to see so many of you posting your footage captured on the Blackmagic Cinema Camera. Shots like the ones from "Big Sur" and the "Rebelz" music video that were posted a couple of weeks ago have made their way around all the Blackmagic offices, and it is amazing seeing what our camera can do in the hands of creative shooters.


Regards,

Grant
Blackmagic Design
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Fredrick_Keyser

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostFri Feb 08, 2013 4:04 pm

Thanks for the update! It's great to see camersa going out. I know a lot of people are waiting on word of the MFT model.
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Tom

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostFri Feb 08, 2013 4:14 pm

I hope the difference between current output rates and full volume is significant - or at this rate it will be months before I get my april order.

Thanks for the update though!
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bhook

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostFri Feb 08, 2013 4:25 pm

Grant Petty wrote:Camera shipments are being sent out evenly between the offices, and will continue to be shipped that way.


Between what offices...the retailers or the distributors? AFAIK, Omega Broadcasting has not received any additional cameras beyond the two that they got several weeks ago.
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Christine Peterson

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostFri Feb 08, 2013 4:36 pm

mhood wrote:
Grant Petty wrote:Camera shipments are being sent out evenly between the offices, and will continue to be shipped that way.


Between what offices...the retailers or the distributors? AFAIK, Omega Broadcasting has not received any additional cameras beyond the two that they got several weeks ago.

By "offices" he means the Blackmagic regional offices, as listed on the Company page. US, Europe, Australia, China, and Japan.
Christine Peterson

(Previously Community Relations Manager for Blackmagic Design)
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Jason R. Johnston

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostFri Feb 08, 2013 4:55 pm

Thanks for the update, Grant! I'm looking forward to playing with my MFT version soon!
Jason R. Johnston
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bhook

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostFri Feb 08, 2013 5:00 pm

Not to be argumentative but perhaps representatives of the BMD offices could provide shipping insights for buyers in their respective regions. Here in the US B&H seems to get many, while Omega gets two and Adorama has shipped to a 1/13 order. I know EU is confused as well as are other regions. If there is a game plan, we would like to hear it.
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nickdale

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostFri Feb 08, 2013 5:11 pm

Alas, I (and many others) got bored of waiting and waiting and cancelled. The UK supplier I was with is one of the main ones and they are supremely disappointed with the lack of supply (7 cameras received in total when I mailed a week ago) and communication they were getting, which didn't really inspire any confidence. I do hope they get this all sorted before competitors come out of the woodwork (which is inevitable), but at the current rate it doesn't seem likely - the updates are still a bit vague and non-committal unfortunately, which again doesn't fill me with any real hope that production will ever ramp up to a level that will fulfil this massive backlog.... A real shame - I use a lot of BM products in my studio and was really hopeful for this camera but it just wasn't to be (for me at least) - maybe when it has all settled down I'll have another look at it.

Some of the footage I have seen looks nice though...good luck to you all on the list - look forward to seeing your work.
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Darren Joy

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostFri Feb 08, 2013 5:23 pm

Grant Petty wrote:Also, I know there have been questions regarding the backorder and which regions are getting cameras first. Camera shipments are being sent out evenly between the offices, and will continue to be shipped that way.


I'm wondering if that policy is really working then. Perhaps units should be shipped based upon demand.

It's genuinely looking like I could order a BMCC today from a US reseller, and receive it before I get the one I ordered from the largest EU reseller in the middle of last year.

Something is broken somewhere, or this would not be possible.
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Graham Spice

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostFri Feb 08, 2013 5:30 pm

Nice shoutout to movie makers! Good call letting us know you're watching

Now, how about some numbers? Any idea when you will be through the backorders? Sometimes this "transparency" isn't quite transparent enough. All we want to know is when we'll be receiving these shimmering little beauties. Thanks for posting something
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Fabián Matas

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostFri Feb 08, 2013 6:58 pm

Anything interesting for MFT buyers :( damn life....
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Brandon Richardson

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostFri Feb 08, 2013 7:19 pm

If I was to order the MFT model today from a retailer what would be a good estimate on when these Models will start to ship. It seems everyday multiple EF version pops up.

Second question is it possible for you guys to explain why production isnt at full volume? Seems the sensor issue is passed. Is it more of a precautionary QA move or are just gradually ramping up production as the team gets familiar with huge volume production of the cameras? Thanks for the update
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Samjack

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostFri Feb 08, 2013 7:21 pm

Yes Grant, keep delaying the MFT and you will lose market share come NAB 2013.
I wouldnt touch an EF unless it was free. Nothing short of the MFT will do.
I already been looking at the Digital Bolex and should production start on that one and still no MFT arrive I would jump ship and that it me done with BMD products. I will also advise all my Chinese friends and filmmaking students were to spend their money.
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AndreasK

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostFri Feb 08, 2013 7:24 pm

Christine Peterson wrote:By "offices" he means the Blackmagic regional offices, as listed on the Company page. US, Europe, Australia, China, and Japan.


Isn't that insane? I mean Japan (=1 small country) get's the same number of cameras as a whole continent???

Shouldnt it be distributed according to incoming order date?!?
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Trevor Roach

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostFri Feb 08, 2013 7:28 pm

Thanks for the update, Grant!

Keep up the good work and just keep pumping out these cameras!
Some people will never be happy, haha.
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Christine Peterson

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostFri Feb 08, 2013 8:40 pm

Brandon wrote:Second question is it possible for you guys to explain why production isnt at full volume? Seems the sensor issue is passed. Is it more of a precautionary QA move or are just gradually ramping up production as the team gets familiar with huge volume production of the cameras? Thanks for the update

The sensor company is a bit of a bottleneck. They aren't at full production yet, but they are increasing every week and our team builds cameras as soon as we receive a shipment of sensors.
Christine Peterson

(Previously Community Relations Manager for Blackmagic Design)
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Tim Veal

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostFri Feb 08, 2013 9:24 pm

Since cameras are being sent out evenly to the regional offices can someone shed some light on why a few large authorized retailers are shipping cameras ordered in Dec and even Jan '13 while other smaller authorized retailers don't even have enough cameras to ship to those of us who ordered in April?
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billmanolios

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostFri Feb 08, 2013 9:30 pm

The rumor is that B&H is holding onto cameras until they get a large enough supply to save on a bulk shipping discount. Maybe it's false. Maybe there are other companies doing the same.
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bronson

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostFri Feb 08, 2013 9:36 pm

Thanks for the update. Hope to get some more news on the MFT soon. An estimated shipping date would be nice ;)
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Bill Rich

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostFri Feb 08, 2013 9:40 pm

Here's why you're seeing customers that ordered late in '12 early '13 getting cameras at smaller resellers..

The resellers placed orders just like you in April for in-house Demo and rental cameras.. but after having to refund a bunch for people canceling. they are offering the first cameras they receive to customers so they won't cancel.
So in my case.. I did order early August at B&H.. but realized there were most likely hundreds of folks in front of me in line.. so I cancelled in October and ordered with a smaller reseller where I was #3 in line. The person that ordered 2 BMCC that was in front of me in line cancelled his 2 cams.. and when they finally got their first BMCC they offered it to me as a good will gesture. I was just playing the odds and played it right!
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John Waldorff

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostFri Feb 08, 2013 9:55 pm

I think this is great news.
Also the follow ups from Christine give nice insights.

Thanks. I'm glad all will work out.
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Tim Veal

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostFri Feb 08, 2013 10:43 pm

Hey Bill, glad you got your camera! Sometimes it works out that way. But the people I see who posted that they ordered in Dec and Jan and have their cameras or shipping notices are from two of the big online warehouse stores, not the smaller retailers. In my case I ordered mid April from one of Blackmagic's authorized retailers. I was and as of last month still am in the the top ten on their list to get a camera. Two weeks ago they told me they had only received one camera (which did go to a customer) with no news on when to expect more. It seems they just aren't being allocated cameras.
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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostFri Feb 08, 2013 10:58 pm

Texas Media Systems has only recently received one camera. Why has B&H received so so many? Is B&H really gonna become the big-box retailer and put the little businesses out? Don't get me wrong, I love B&H, and I love Wal-Mart, but I want to see the little guys succeed to. TMS offered a great competitive deal with a steep discount... Why can't the U.S. distributor get them more cameras?
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Melvin Harris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostSat Feb 09, 2013 1:47 am

This is a horrible MFT update and disappointing to say the least.

You are losing me.

You are losing my money.

You are losing my connections.

You are losing my recommendation.

You have lost my trust.
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Cameron Mckinlay

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostSat Feb 09, 2013 2:06 am

Samjack wrote:I wouldnt touch an EF unless it was free. Nothing short of the MFT will do.

Could someone shed some light on what the hype with the MFT is? I thought the one and only benefit is that it is easier to adapt other lens with non ef mounts. But as we have seen and I have first hand experience with, I have yet to see a mount that can't be adapted to ef. So what are the other benefits?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
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Eduardo Gonzalez

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostSat Feb 09, 2013 2:14 am

Great news? Well it's better than no news. I don't blame Blackmagic for the sensor manufacturer not getting their pipeline in order. I am disappointed, however, for receiving the same update as December and January for us potential MFT users.

Waiting for more EF orders to be fulfilled first? Can't you do both?

Christine you're doing a marvelous job on explaining what you can and I thank you. This is, however, making us who wait for our MFTs become more and more like this young lady.

NAB is coming. It feels like I'm either like chicken little warning the sky is falling or someone warning that jaws is coming, can't figure out which. Hopefully it's more like chicken little and nothing but hot air.

Grant thank you for acknowledging the great videos we've seen such as Andrew Julian's Big Sur. Keep them coming bmcc users.
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Rakesh Malik

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostSat Feb 09, 2013 2:24 am

cmckinlay wrote:Could someone shed some light on what the hype with the MFT is? I thought the one and only benefit is that it is easier to adapt other lens with non ef mounts. But as we have seen and I have first hand experience with, I have yet to see a mount that can't be adapted to ef. So what are the other benefits?


As far as I can tell, there aren't many options for adapting, say, Nikon, Minolta, or Sony lenses to an EF mount, for example. Unless I'm wrong, that would imply that you have it backwards, the EF mount doesn't allow much versatility in lens options compared to the MFT mount, which allows a lot... but not the newfangled electronic iris lenses without aperture rings. Sigh.
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Melvin Harris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostSat Feb 09, 2013 2:35 am

Tamerlin wrote:
cmckinlay wrote:Could someone shed some light on what the hype with the MFT is? I thought the one and only benefit is that it is easier to adapt other lens with non ef mounts. But as we have seen and I have first hand experience with, I have yet to see a mount that can't be adapted to ef. So what are the other benefits?


As far as I can tell, there aren't many options for adapting, say, Nikon, Minolta, or Sony lenses to an EF mount, for example. Unless I'm wrong, that would imply that you have it backwards, the EF mount doesn't allow much versatility in lens options compared to the MFT mount, which allows a lot... but not the newfangled electronic iris lenses without aperture rings. Sigh.


Exactly. Some of us are not Canon users. Some of us are already MFT shooters and have gear for days. There are lens manufacturers other than Canon and we have had great success adapting them for our 4/3 systems already. A BMC MFT is a natural progression for us.
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John Brawley

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostSat Feb 09, 2013 3:31 am

cmckinlay wrote:Could someone shed some light on what the hype with the MFT is? I thought the one and only benefit is that it is easier to adapt other lens with non ef mounts. But as we have seen and I have first hand experience with, I have yet to see a mount that can't be adapted to ef. So what are the other benefits?



There are very few PL lenses that can be adapted to EF mount. PL is by far the dominant lens mount used on Cine lenses.

It's easier to find lenses, especially wider angle lenses that are optimised for the m4/3 sized sensor. Even with only passive mount it's possible to get fast and wide lenses like the 12mm T1.6 SLR Magic or the Voigtlander 17.5mm T0.95.

Once it's an active mount there are also many Panasonic and Olympus lenses that will be very interesting on the camera and that are optimised more to the m4/3 sensor size.

jb
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Steve Lee Jean

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostSat Feb 09, 2013 3:59 am

This is a really devastating blow for the MFT customers. Not gonna lie. It makes sense to start with the EF mount BMCC I'm sure seeing that canon glass has such a foot in the market, but its marginalizing the videographers/DoP's who have thoroughly invested in the MFT niche.

Doesn't matter how you slice it, EF preorders waiting a year, and MFT preorders in Oct/Nov likely also to wait a year (or more) is just plain bad.

I don't mean to be outright on the issue at all, I love BMD, but shouldn't possible bottlenecks with the sensor supplier have been accounted for during planning? Particularly understanding that the most important phase of a product release is fulfilling preorders?

I'm not calling anyone out or anything, but 1year+ turnaround after a preorder is just plain bad. Boutique companies don't even have this kind of turnaround, especially in a market that changes as rapidly as this.

Will continue to wait, but I guess we should've known better? :(
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John Brawley

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostSat Feb 09, 2013 4:10 am

innerspark wrote:
I don't mean to be outright on the issue at all, I love BMD, but shouldn't possible bottlenecks with the sensor supplier have been accounted for during planning? Particularly understanding that the most important phase of a product release is fulfilling preorders?



Don't forget they halted production of the sensors to investigate the initial troubles. They had to build extra levels of QA because BMD were picking up faults that the sensor maker wasn't. That took time to work out. That all takes time to sort out. It's not like a tap. They start up the production process gradually tuning it to be faster and better and consistent. And really we're only a few weeks into production starting up including a XMAS break so I think the numbers have been pretty good. I think you'll find mft starting to appear very soon.

I think BMD wanted to get as many EF cameras out the door as fast as they can. All the still-in-short-supply sensors are going into EF cameras so that they can try to at least get SOME cameras out the door, especially to those that ordered early. Yeah I know there are those that have been waiting longer than others and there are those that switched but that's down to when the retailers placed their orders with BMD....

Bottom line is I know the mft is coming really soon and they really are now only bottlenecked by how fast they get sensors from their supplier....

jb
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Steve Lee Jean

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostSat Feb 09, 2013 4:38 am

Unfortunately I feel like your optimism is not congruent with Grant's original post. B&H back order for the EF model alone is in the high hundreds, and these will be fulfilled before the MFT comes out in any meaningful quantities. The admission from Grant that sensor supplies aren't at full capacity even now is cause for serious concern.

Like I said, I understand that mishaps and difficulties associated with getting a product off the line for the first time. It's just unfortunate that this happens to be one of the fields/profession where the luxury of time and coping with delays hardly ever exists. Especially on the Cam Ops side. Consumers and especially professionals moving to another product due to these difficulties doesn't mean we feel slighted by BMD, not by any means, but we are forced to move to alternatives out of pragmatism.

Fingers crossed, but as they say, contingencies are always best.
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Eduardo Gonzalez

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostSat Feb 09, 2013 6:16 am

cmckinlay wrote:
Samjack wrote:I wouldnt touch an EF unless it was free. Nothing short of the MFT will do.

Could someone shed some light on what the hype with the MFT is? I thought the one and only benefit is that it is easier to adapt other lens with non ef mounts. But as we have seen and I have first hand experience with, I have yet to see a mount that can't be adapted to ef. So what are the other benefits?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


As others have mentioned, for many of us who have invested in not only many PL mount cine lenses, and many vintage lenses, include many great anamorphics, but also some very cool new MFT lenses like those beloved SLR Magic and Voigtlander ones. Check out examples by John Brawley here. .

You can adapt most lenses to MFT including EF. For others who have invested in Canon lenses, the EF is the one to own, especially if you're used to having electronic control. I'm used to having manual lenses for most of my shoots anyway.

An active MFT is most likely what will come in the future since you get the best of both worlds. For now we must just wait and hope for something to happen, like a sudden surge in sales. I cannot wait until I see a statement from Grant that says something like, "Great we are shipping the MFT and EF by the hundreds." Of course, we just have to learn what true patience is for now. Many of us have had to move on to other cameras for other jobs, but I've not given up on it arriving nor am I cancelling my order, ...YET.
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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostSat Feb 09, 2013 6:47 am

Wow, I am impressed by the ability of some people to see any positives in this latest of updates. Once again, we get absolutely no solid information, but merely a rehash of the last two updates. I really am even more shocked by the fact that people seem to forgive BMD for this back log due to the sensor company. Unfortunately, that is BMD's problem. Is there really only one company on this planet that could make those sensors? Why didn't BMD search for an alternative supplier? I am an editor by trade and if I miss a deadline because my editing system breaks down, my client isn't going to transfer blame to the company that built my editing system. Why should we let BMD divert any blame? What we want now are simple numbers. Give me an estimate of how many cameras were ordered and how many have been produced so far. A bonus piece of information would be an estimate on future production. Please don't say it's company policy to withhold that information. These vague updates just seem to make us more upset.


It feels very good to vent. Thank you to all that have read this.
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John Brawley

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostSat Feb 09, 2013 7:21 am

JON s wrote: Is there really only one company on this planet that could make those sensors? Why didn't BMD search for an alternative supplier?



With respect, It's not as simple as just changing suppliers.

Firstly, this sensor itself has some very special performance characteristics that are part of what gives you the end result this camera is producing right now. It's the heart of the camera and if you change it, it fundamentally will change the look and from what I understand, there is no other sensor available that produces this kind of DR and look for this price and in this volume.

Secondly, not only is the sensor inherent to the look of this camera, BMD have spent a LOT of cash and many months of engineering time making this sensor useable for what we want as image makers. This sensor was originally designed for lower volume, high end scientific applications like astronomy. BMD have spent a lot of engineering R&D to make it look the way it does. It doesn't look anything like as nice as it does when it just "off the shelf". Believe me, I saw the very first images out of it.

So the simplistic notion of just changing a supplier doesn't actually work. It would take months if not longer to do that, and there might not even be another sensor on the market that delivers the same performance anyway.

The rate of production is increasing. There's nothing else like what this camera can do for the price.So you have a choice. You can wait or you can cancel your order and wait for NAB and order something else. It's really not worth the anxiety if you're getting this wound up about it. It's just a camera.

JON s wrote:I am an editor by trade and if I miss a deadline because my editing system breaks down, my client isn't going to transfer blame to the company that built my editing system. Why should we let BMD divert any blame?


Well for a large company, they seem to me to have been relatively open. I don't think they've BLAMED the supplier. They're just explaining why they aren't shipping cameras they'd desperately love to. They've explained what they know. They'd rather be shipping cameras that hearing from people that haven't gotten them. You can still blame them by not buying the camera. Cancel your order. Go get what you need to do the job now and see if they can ever earn your respect as a consumer ever again.



JON s wrote: What we want now are simple numbers. Give me an estimate of how many cameras were ordered and how many have been produced so far. A bonus piece of information would be an estimate on future production. Please don't say it's company policy to withhold that information. These vague updates just seem to make us more upset.


Which you won't ever get. BMD won't talk about numbers. Why should they ? It's privileged information. BMD's competitors don't publish their production capacity....

jb
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JON s

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostSat Feb 09, 2013 8:34 am

I never realized that I had to earn respect as a consumer. That's an interesting notion. Secondly, the notion of looking for multiple production companies is not all that unheard of. If BMD was the one spending the money on that engineering R&D, then they own it and have the right to shop it out to other production facilities. It's not a simplistic idea to have alternative production companies. They most likely found the one that bid the lowest for the job. And as for not publishing the numbers because it's privileged information is the biggest cop out I have ever heard. Most companies brag about that sort of thing. Oh, but you probably want examples to back that up. Why don't you look up how many Ipads, Iphones, Ipods, smartphones, HD tv, video game systems, etc.. that all of those companies make. Most companies that don't have anything to hide, freely share that information. Companies tend to hide the technology, not their sales or product output. But those are just the rants of an unrespectable consumer, so what do I know. I only paid my money in advance based upon information told to me by the totally respectable corporation.
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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostSat Feb 09, 2013 8:36 am

If people were paid to criticize there'd be more than a few wealthy individual posters here.
I can't help but wonder how the "I'll tell all my friends . . ." statements advance the conversation?
But the most humorous comments are those by our resident "captains of industry" telling Grant how he should run his business . . . when what (most) really want is their camera, yesterday, and couldn't give two hoots about anything or anyone else.

Such is the nature of the anonymity of the web. Just bear in mind that airing your frustrations (and name calling) doesn't necessitate that everyone is going to join your personal pity party. . . because there are more than a couple of us that actually have a life.

What about the M4/3's? What about the little dealers?
Hey man, take a freaking breath, will ya?
All of the early pre-orders were for the Canon mount . . . That's the only way the camera was being offered. Big/volume dealers get more product because they sell more product, that's just a simple fact of life (no matter how difficult it may be for you to accept).
Yeah, take your money and jump on another camera that hasn't been released yet . . . Maybe you can cry about that one too (but the world is going to keep on turning) and the negative karma you bring to this board won't be missed . . . Not for a minute.

If I had a wish it would be that you all get your cameras tomorrow (although that's not likely).
The thing that I simply can't grasp is how some people behave like there's some big conspiracy, as though Black-Magic doesn't want to deliver cameras to everyone (or maybe you think they just want for YOU to have to wait). I'm pretty sure it's not personal.

Anyhow, if it makes you feel any better, you'll all have cameras before I will, because I don't have the money and haven't been able to place an order yet . . .

Good luck.

Peace.
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Samjack

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostSat Feb 09, 2013 9:04 am

cmckinlay wrote:
Samjack wrote:I wouldnt touch an EF unless it was free. Nothing short of the MFT will do.

Could someone shed some light on what the hype with the MFT is? I thought the one and only benefit is that it is easier to adapt other lens with non ef mounts. But as we have seen and I have first hand experience with, I have yet to see a mount that can't be adapted to ef. So what are the other benefits?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


You obviously not used an MFT before. I suggest you do a check back on the forums. You should then ask why the hype with EF.
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Samjack

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostSat Feb 09, 2013 9:06 am

Eduardo Gonzalez wrote:Waiting for more EF orders to be fulfilled first? Can't you do both?


That is "logic" something BMD is considerably lack of either through bad business advice or out of spite.
If they continue that way someone else will step in take away their business.
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Samjack

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostSat Feb 09, 2013 9:09 am

Tamerlin wrote:
cmckinlay wrote:Could someone shed some light on what the hype with the MFT is? I thought the one and only benefit is that it is easier to adapt other lens with non ef mounts. But as we have seen and I have first hand experience with, I have yet to see a mount that can't be adapted to ef. So what are the other benefits?


As far as I can tell, there aren't many options for adapting, say, Nikon, Minolta, or Sony lenses to an EF mount, for example. Unless I'm wrong, that would imply that you have it backwards, the EF mount doesn't allow much versatility in lens options compared to the MFT mount, which allows a lot... but not the newfangled electronic iris lenses without aperture rings. Sigh.


Metabones Speed Booster MFT version turns your EF lens to S35 on BMCC MFT. That alone is good enough reason.
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Samjack

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostSat Feb 09, 2013 9:22 am

dregenthal wrote:If people were paid to criticize there'd be more than a few wealthy individual posters here.
I can't help but wonder how the "I'll tell all my friends . . ." statements advance the conversation?
But the most humorous comments are those by our resident "captains of industry" telling Grant how he should run his business . . . when what (most) really want is their camera, yesterday, and couldn't give two hoots about anything or anyone else.

Such is the nature of the anonymity of the web. Just bear in mind that airing your frustrations (and name calling) doesn't necessitate that everyone is going to join your personal pity party. . . because there are more than a couple of us that actually have a life.

What about the M4/3's? What about the little dealers?
Hey man, take a freaking breath, will ya?
All of the early pre-orders were for the Canon mount . . . That's the only way the camera was being offered. Big/volume dealers get more product because they sell more product, that's just a simple fact of life (no matter how difficult it may be for you to accept).
Yeah, take your money and jump on another camera that hasn't been released yet . . . Maybe you can cry about that one too (but the world is going to keep on turning) and the negative karma you bring to this board won't be missed . . . Not for a minute.

If I had a wish it would be that you all get your cameras tomorrow (although that's not likely).
The thing that I simply can't grasp is how some people behave like there's some big conspiracy, as though Black-Magic doesn't want to deliver cameras to everyone (or maybe you think they just want for YOU to have to wait). I'm pretty sure it's not personal.

Anyhow, if it makes you feel any better, you'll all have cameras before I will, because I don't have the money and haven't been able to place an order yet . . .

Good luck.

Peace.


So WFT are you doing here. You are skint, not ordered anything, not waiting for anything.
Why not go find a job mate?
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Steve Lee Jean

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostSat Feb 09, 2013 9:42 am

I do understand everyone's frustration but there are two things at work here:

1. We're here cause we dig BMD products, and want one.
2. Inconsistencies by any company does in fact hurt the end user.

There's no room for name calling, for sure, but its more than acceptable for paying customers and supporters to state their cases (whether they be frustrations/praise) in any manner, barring vulgarity and other unpleasantness.

DoPs, Cam Ops, Videographers, etc, have the sometimes unfortunate link between their profession and tools. Should professionals account for fluctuations in the market? Is it erratic and capricious? Yes. Are there alternatives in the market? Yes. But as you know these cameras are tools for the artist, and the BMCC is an awesome tool that many want to use.

The delayed shipping has definitely left people frustrated, but I feel what makes people more uncomfortable is that they have no idea what to expect. These shipping update threads have been a congregation of "who got theirs, from whom, and ordered when" as if we're all trying to deduce some systematic way to pinpoint when we might receive ours.

People of this trade live by the clock. So is it unreasonable for people to request (and sometimes demand) an educated approximation? I think so. That way those involved can schedule with it. I don't think that's unreasonable at all. I feel for BMD, as unfortunate occurrences can happen with suppliers and impact original estimations. However, camera companies, especially CINEMA camera companies should absolutely know how sensitive time is to the individuals who use their products.

Most people here want transparency so they can get a strong idea of when their product will arrive. Adding some clarity and helping to move this cloud of doubt will do a lot to ease the tensions here. Numbers may be propriety info to some companies, but there are customers who are beginning to feel slighted. Is it BMD's intention? Of course not, but it is something BMD could do? I hope so.
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pampers

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostSat Feb 09, 2013 10:51 am

Everybody who cries about the delay, shall use my name to catch the drippin' pee drops.

You don't want to wait? - Buy something else.
You don't want to wait, bought the cam but a refund isn't possible? - Stop annoying other people with your childish complaints or your"..oh so pro critical conclusions".
Spoiled brats.

I am also waiting since 2012.
This camera is worth it.
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John Brawley

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostSat Feb 09, 2013 11:28 am

JON s wrote: If BMD was the one spending the money on that engineering R&D, then they own it and have the right to shop it out to other production facilities. It's not a simplistic idea to have alternative production companies. They most likely found the one that bid the lowest for the job.


So I'm going to pull you up again. I thought I explained in my previous post.

The sensor in the current BMCC is unique. No one else makes one exactly like it. When BMD decided to make a camera, they looked around at all the sensors that were available that they could buy and they CHOSE this one. Not because it was cheap, as you infer, but because it offered amazing DR and performance for a relatively large sensor size. They looked at larger (4k) and super 35 but they all became a LOT more expensive. There are also only a couple of people making sensors that big. At the slightly smaller size they were able to find a sensor that had amazing performance, that hadn't really been using for motion imaging before.

It wasn't put out to tender. BMD did not award it to the cheapest lowest cost provider. They specifically chose this sensor as the one that would meet their design goals...to make a low cost, very high dynamic range, high bit depth uncompressed camera, with as large a sensor as they could find that would meet those lofty imaging criteria.

You really and truly can't just substitute another *sensor* in there. It doesn't work like that.

Now after specifically choosing this ONE sensor only made by this company, they then had to spend a lot of man-hours adapting it to what they wanted to do. This work is SPECIFIC to the sensor. That is why I say you can't just substitute another sensor.

Even if there WAS another supplier that made a sensor with the same specs, they can't just use all that engineering r&d on the NEW substitute sensor. They start again from square 1. They are custom engineered for each job they do. They literally have to *programmed* from the ground up. You don't just connect a couple of wires and put some power into it to get an image.

I am not a camera engineer. Im not an anything engineer. I'm just a DOP. All of this I've learned by being involved with this project.

Yeah they just started with a sensor off the shelf. but it's kind of like buying an engine off the shelf. You still have to build the car and the computer that controls the engine performance. Yeah you can just turn it over and it will run, but to get the utmost out of it, there's a lot of work that's done to the transmission, the suspension, the chassis of the car. It's more holistic than that.

And this is why, even though anyone can buy a sensor off the shelf, to *finish* and tune the camera as well as BMD have, is actually a whole lot more difficult.

And this is why, it will be difficult for companies like Kine Raw to comepte. they wil be able to make a camera that makes pictures, but will it have the same DR ? Will it have the same colour range and look ? I suspect they will find it difficult.

BMD had a huge head start with uncompressed recording (hyperdecks) and with colour science and de-bayering with their IP from Resolve, the colour correction tool used int he vast majority of high end TV and studio film production made for consumers.

This is why the BMCC performs "beyond it's specs".

JON s wrote: And as for not publishing the numbers because it's privileged information is the biggest cop out I have ever heard. Most companies brag about that sort of thing. Oh, but you probably want examples to back that up. Why don't you look up how many Ipads, Iphones, Ipods, smartphones, HD tv, video game systems, etc.. that all of those companies make. Most companies that don't have anything to hide, freely share that information.


Well I'm going to call you on this one too.

They don't share this information. They don't share production capacity. At most, with some of the mass consumer electronics companies they will report their historical manufacturing, but that's usually because they are publicly listed companies and have to report to the financial markets.,

BMD is a privately owned company and they don't have to report anything.

Once again, I reiterate... I can't think of another camera manufacturer that reports it's ongoing or current production capacity.

JON s wrote: I only paid my money in advance based upon information told to me by the totally respectable corporation.


Whilst you certainly have paid money on the *promise* of a camera, any reputable dealer wouldn't hold a gun to your head if you want to cancel your order. And on a new product, I can't imagine any dealer would hold the full purchase price of the camera with the delays that have been experienced.

If this is the case with you, then i suggest you put it to them that you deserve a refund.

And I should add, the money you have paid is to a dealer, not BMD.

Im not trying to excuse the delay. BMD are painfully aware of the dissatisfaction.

jb
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Darryl Gregory

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostSat Feb 09, 2013 11:44 am

Meeh! What a long winded post this is, Now in layman terms the sensor is simple...
It sits in front of the worlds best Recorder...Eno :o :o h said!

Thanks John Brawley!
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Cameron Mckinlay

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostSat Feb 09, 2013 12:28 pm

Samjack wrote:
cmckinlay wrote:
Samjack wrote:I wouldnt touch an EF unless it was free. Nothing short of the MFT will do.

Could someone shed some light on what the hype with the MFT is? I thought the one and only benefit is that it is easier to adapt other lens with non ef mounts. But as we have seen and I have first hand experience with, I have yet to see a mount that can't be adapted to ef. So what are the other benefits?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


You obviously not used an MFT before. I suggest you do a check back on the forums. You should then ask why the hype with EF.

No I haven't, because I have never come across a lens that I couldn't adapt to my 7D. This is why I am asking. I have a camera bag full of lens' with a plethora of mounts. Nikkor, olympus, monolta, zeiss, and my anamorphics. And I have seen many adaptders on the market for ef to pl. So you say you can adapt any lens to mft....I can do the exact same on ef.
Now with the RECENT introduction of the speedbooster, now there is something that truly sets them apart. And as far as I know they wont be able to make a speedbooster for the ef because if flange distance.


Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
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Ryan Best

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostSat Feb 09, 2013 1:51 pm

I am just as frustrated as the next man/woman - BELIEVE ME - but the reality is this - It is of no benefit to any of the parties concerned, that we do not receive our BMCC's.

Just think about it like this - if a client presented you with the most lucrative job/opportunity of your career - and you believed you could meet the requirements, but it would take some hard work - how hard would you work in order to make that project a success?

The process has lacked the transparency that we all would like and in the past, BMD have shot themselves in the foot with product promises (release dates displayed on the website) and late updates - this is true, but I still support the notion that they have our creative interests at heart.

I am still waiting for my camera to arrive and I have no intention of cancelling my order, well at least while the BMCC remains the best product "available" at this price point.
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Aaron Scheiner

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostSat Feb 09, 2013 3:13 pm

cmckinlay wrote :
I have never come across a lens that I couldn't adapt to my 7D

So you've never wanted to use a Canon FD lens ? A family member of mine has given me a massive collection of FD lenses. I've experimented a bit with them on a GH1 and some of them are beautiful... you can't use an FD lens on an EF mount without an optical adaptor... which always results in noticeable quality loss.

What about 16mm lenses ? same thing.

John Brawley wrote :
They literally have to *programmed* from the ground up.

BMD loves their FPGAs... it would be so cool if creating a Magic Lantern-clone was viable on the BMD ie. consumer mods :D or "apps" for your camera/BMCC . "mmm, I don't like the Zebra, I'll change it" (or in Canon's case add it). Thanks for the insights.

The situation is a little disappointing but really... there is nothing like this camera in this price range at the moment and it's probably all due to that odd sensor. If I get either of my two BMCC orders in the next 6 months I'll be happy... until then my Hyperdecks will keep me company :P .
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Cameron Mckinlay

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostSat Feb 09, 2013 3:33 pm

Aaron Scheiner wrote:
So you've never wanted to use a Canon FD lens ? A family member of mine has given me a massive collection of FD lenses. I've experimented a bit with them on a GH1 and some of them are beautiful... you can't use an FD lens on an EF mount without an optical adaptor... which always results in noticeable quality loss.

I stand corrected. I have never come across any FD's that one of my other vintage lenses couldn't reproduce that same contrast and look of an FD. I see the difference between the two now. Since I am coming from the Canon world, everything I own will fit on EF. So I thank you for your patience in explaining the differences.
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Rakesh Malik

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 2/8

PostSat Feb 09, 2013 4:51 pm

JON s wrote: If BMD was the one spending the money on that engineering R&D, then they own it and have the right to shop it out to other production facilities. It's not a simplistic idea to have alternative production companies. They most likely found the one that bid the lowest for the job.


Semiconductor manufacturing is quite a but more complicated than that.

First off, there arent't that am y companies who do custom designs to begin with.

For another, in the world of semiconductor fabrication, the BMCC sensor is big.

Also, you don't just take a design and slap it on a slab of silicon. There's a lot of circuitry on the chip, and and fabricating that in multiple layers requires extremely expensive equipment and infrastructure.

When you get your designs worked out, you send an design spec to the mask team (this is called tape out) and they prep the masks. Only the can you start test production runs.

Odds are that with a custom design and fairly large semiconductor it would have taken quite a bit longer to get another supplier on board than to continue working with the same supplier to get their process perfected.

Even for the very best in the semiconductor fabrication business, I.e. Intel, AMD, Chartered, etc it takes months to get a new design into production once it's taped out.
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