4.6k Took a Soft fall and Completely Broke

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Michael McCaffrey

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4.6k Took a Soft fall and Completely Broke

PostWed Jul 27, 2016 7:51 pm

In the middle of our film project we switched to the 4.6k from the Red Scarlet for its low light capabilities for this scene. On the first night of shooting with the 4.6k, the dolly slipped and I fell down, as did the camera. It slowly fell over and landed on the grass. The side handle took the impact, and the thrust from the side handle into the body cracked the case, and now the camera will not power on. Completely dead.

What happened to that aluminum body? The 4.6k is gets great images, just dont drop it.

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Michael McCaffrey

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Re: 4.6k Took a Soft fall and Completely Broke

PostWed Jul 27, 2016 8:19 pm

Wow. BMD just told me they'd have to replace the entire camera and its not covered under warranty. Im out $5000 after just 2 hours of shooting on this camera?! What would you guys do??
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Re: 4.6k Took a Soft fall and Completely Broke

PostWed Jul 27, 2016 8:29 pm

Request a RMA from your regional BM support office anyway, and see if it can be repaired. Just do not accept the first reply you receive, escalate to a supervisor, if you need to. Even a Panny AF100 can be repaired after being dropped. Dropping a camera does not come under a normal warranty, but it should be repairable.
The frame is alloy, not the outer case. Have you tried powering it from the 4-pin power XLR connection? The battery connectio lead may have been damaged, but the XLR might still work. Looking at the photo looks like more than a soft fall, or your weight was on top of the camera, and the side handle was down, taking the brunt of the hit, which concentrated the impact to a small area, breaking the case.

Also, this is why you buy equipment insurance for commercial shoots. See if the production company has insurance to cover this also.
Good luck.
Edited to correct typos
Last edited by Denny Smith on Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Brandon Richardson

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Re: 4.6k Took a Soft fall and Completely Broke

PostWed Jul 27, 2016 9:46 pm

Since when are drops and spills covered under the manufacturers warranty? Please enlighten me? The camera is still functional or it doesn't work anymore? You didn't get additional drop and spill coverage?


EDIT: Didnt read the last bit about it not working, you have insurance?
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Tony Rivera

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Re: 4.6k Took a Soft fall and Completely Broke

PostWed Jul 27, 2016 10:15 pm

Our warranties do not cover physical damage. That being said, the other components that could be damaged and are causing the unit not to power up, might be able to be repaired/replaced. Speak with the support person you were in contact with and we can sort out RMA possibilities.
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Benton Collins

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Re: 4.6k Took a Soft fall and Completely Broke

PostWed Jul 27, 2016 10:36 pm

Michael McCaffrey wrote:In the middle of our film project we switched to the 4.6k from the Red Scarlet for its low light capabilities for this scene. On the first night of shooting with the 4.6k, the dolly slipped and I fell down, as did the camera. It slowly fell over and landed on the grass. The side handle took the impact, and the thrust from the side handle into the body cracked the case, and now the camera will not power on. Completely dead.

What happened to that aluminum body? The 4.6k is gets great images, just dont drop it.

Image

Image

Bummer to hear of your accident! The body is cast magnesium alloy, not aluminum. If the body was made of machined aluminum, it would be much stronger, but would likely cost double to make.
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Michael McCaffrey

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Re: 4.6k Took a Soft fall and Completely Broke

PostWed Jul 27, 2016 10:50 pm

Brandon Richardson wrote:Since when are drops and spills covered under the manufacturers warranty? Please enlighten me?


I was never hoping for a warranty to cover this. I didnt expect it to. I was however hoping BMD would at least take a look at it to explore the potential of fixing it.
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Re: 4.6k Took a Soft fall and Completely Broke

PostWed Jul 27, 2016 10:52 pm

Tony Rivera wrote:Our warranties do not cover physical damage. That being said, the other components that could be damaged and are causing the unit not to power up, might be able to be repaired/replaced. Speak with the support person you were in contact with and we can sort out RMA possibilities.


Tony,

I never expected BMD to cover this under warranty. As you said, some components may have been damaged that are replaceable, but we will never know this or not with BMD support being unwilling to look at it.

I have contacted my reseller who is pursuing an RMA. Should I do something else? Or is that more or leas the same thing?
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Donnell Henry

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Re: 4.6k Took a Soft fall and Completely Broke

PostWed Jul 27, 2016 11:13 pm

Michael McCaffrey wrote:
Tony Rivera wrote:Our warranties do not cover physical damage. That being said, the other components that could be damaged and are causing the unit not to power up, might be able to be repaired/replaced. Speak with the support person you were in contact with and we can sort out RMA possibilities.


Tony,

I never expected BMD to cover this under warranty. As you said, some components may have been damaged that are replaceable, but we will never know this or not with BMD support being unwilling to look at it.

I have contacted my reseller who is pursuing an RMA. Should I do something else? Or is that more or leas the same thing?


Hey micheal it more or less is the same thing. Like Tony said deal with BMD directly, you'll have to pay for the parts I don't think they charge for labor. My Ursa screen broke when I hit it against a chair while moving it on a shoot. Customer service was very nice, the cost to replace my screen was around $480 Us. So like Tony said contact them again ..send it in they'll check it and then let you know from there if it can be fixed or if you'll have to replace it. They'll Let you know your options before they start to fix it. So you can say yes or no to the price of fixing the camera. It didn't look like the whole camera needs to be replaced but you never know what happened inside. As for the aluminum body you spoke of ..just remember BMD made this camera to be as "lite" as possible. So we have to be careful with the Ursa mini. Yours is the first case of a drop. We now know how fragile it can be. Really sorry about your cam ..but I think it will work out for you. You may not have to replace the whole cam. Keep us posted
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Tony Rivera

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Re: 4.6k Took a Soft fall and Completely Broke

PostWed Jul 27, 2016 11:36 pm

Donnell Henry wrote:
Michael McCaffrey wrote:
Tony Rivera wrote:Our warranties do not cover physical damage. That being said, the other components that could be damaged and are causing the unit not to power up, might be able to be repaired/replaced. Speak with the support person you were in contact with and we can sort out RMA possibilities.


Tony,

I never expected BMD to cover this under warranty. As you said, some components may have been damaged that are replaceable, but we will never know this or not with BMD support being unwilling to look at it.

I have contacted my reseller who is pursuing an RMA. Should I do something else? Or is that more or leas the same thing?


Hey micheal it more or less is the same thing. Like Tony said deal with BMD directly, you'll have to pay for the parts I don't think they charge for labor. My Ursa screen broke when I hit it against a chair while moving it on a shoot. Customer service was very nice, the cost to replace my screen was around $480 Us. So like Tony said contact them again ..send it in they'll check it and then let you know from there if it can be fixed or if you'll have to replace it. They'll Let you know your options before they start to fix it. So you can say yes or no to the price of fixing the camera. It didn't look like the whole camera needs to be replaced but you never know what happened inside. As for the aluminum body you spoke of ..just remember BMD made this camera to be as "lite" as possible. So we have to be careful with the Ursa mini. Yours is the first case of a drop. We now know how fragile it can be. Really sorry about your cam ..but I think it will work out for you. You may not have to replace the whole cam. Keep us posted

^Basically all this. ;)

Without us having the camera in hand, it's hard to get an idea of the extent of the damage internally. As I mentioned before, the physical damage isn't part of the warranty, but get in contact with us directly and we'll see what we can do for you.
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Michael McCaffrey

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Re: 4.6k Took a Soft fall and Completely Broke

PostWed Jul 27, 2016 11:39 pm

Tony Rivera wrote:
Donnell Henry wrote:
Michael McCaffrey wrote:[quote="Tony Rivera"]Our warranties do not cover physical damage. That being said, the other components that could be damaged and are causing the unit not to power up, might be able to be repaired/replaced. Speak with the support person you were in contact with and we can sort out RMA possibilities.


Tony,

I never expected BMD to cover this under warranty. As you said, some components may have been damaged that are replaceable, but we will never know this or not with BMD support being unwilling to look at it.

I have contacted my reseller who is pursuing an RMA. Should I do something else? Or is that more or leas the same thing?


Hey micheal it more or less is the same thing. Like Tony said deal with BMD directly, you'll have to pay for the parts I don't think they charge for labor. My Ursa screen broke when I hit it against a chair while moving it on a shoot. Customer service was very nice, the cost to replace my screen was around $480 Us. So like Tony said contact them again ..send it in they'll check it and then let you know from there if it can be fixed or if you'll have to replace it. They'll Let you know your options before they start to fix it. So you can say yes or no to the price of fixing the camera. It didn't look like the whole camera needs to be replaced but you never know what happened inside. As for the aluminum body you spoke of ..just remember BMD made this camera to be as "lite" as possible. So we have to be careful with the Ursa mini. Yours is the first case of a drop. We now know how fragile it can be. Really sorry about your cam ..but I think it will work out for you. You may not have to replace the whole cam. Keep us posted

^Basically all this. ;)

Without us having the camera in hand, it's hard to get an idea of the extent of the damage internally. As I mentioned before, the physical damage isn't part of the warranty, but get in contact with us directly and we'll see what we can do for you.[/quote]

Thanks. When you say get in touch with you directly, I have been in direct contact with BMD technical support via phone and email. When you say "us," is there some other department or someone I should be calling?
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Re: 4.6k Took a Soft fall and Completely Broke

PostWed Jul 27, 2016 11:41 pm

The tech support agent you spoke with will be able to assist you further with this.
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Paul Kapp

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Re: 4.6k Took a Soft fall and Completely Broke

PostWed Jul 27, 2016 11:56 pm

Benton Collins wrote:The body is cast magnesium alloy, not aluminum. If the body was made of machined aluminum, it would be much stronger, but would likely cost double to make.

Magnesium alloy cases are more expensive to make than aluminium ones.
They are just lighter, which is why they are used to make camera bodies.
Magnesium alloy is quite brittle though.
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Re: 4.6k Took a Soft fall and Completely Broke

PostThu Jul 28, 2016 1:12 am

Do you have any gear insurance? you could make a claim and pay $250
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Benton Collins

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Re: 4.6k Took a Soft fall and Completely Broke

PostThu Jul 28, 2016 3:11 am

Paul Kapp wrote:
Benton Collins wrote:The body is cast magnesium alloy, not aluminum. If the body was made of machined aluminum, it would be much stronger, but would likely cost double to make.

Magnesium alloy cases are more expensive to make than aluminium ones.
They are just lighter, which is why they are used to make camera bodies.
Magnesium alloy is quite brittle though.

I might be completely wrong, and I hope someone from BMD will correct me if I am, but I believe it's only the cost of making the first few magnesium alloy cases that is much higher than making One camera housing machined out of a block of aluminum billet or machined aluminum panels bolted together. But once the cast is made and the tooling done, the magnesium case becomes much cheaper in the long run for thousands of units produced. Yes? No?
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Paul Kapp

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Re: 4.6k Took a Soft fall and Completely Broke

PostThu Jul 28, 2016 6:41 am

Na. Magnesium costs a little more but the main cost is it is harder to work with at every stage of manufacturing.
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rick.lang

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4.6k Took a Soft fall and Completely Broke

PostThu Jul 28, 2016 5:42 pm

And I suspect the world's supply of magnesium is far less than the world's ability to produce aluminum.


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Michael Brennan

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Re: 4.6k Took a Soft fall and Completely Broke

PostFri Jul 29, 2016 7:59 am

Im a longtime owner of magnesium body video cameras.
The worst damage I inflicted was on a two week old Digibeta camcorder when tripod collapsed whilst on a floating jetty and it toppled forward, the front of the lens taking the impact. The shock travelled to the front of the camera and cracked the magnesium.
Other than that(!) no other problems, other than needing to drill out and install helical coils in base plate fittings.

The bayonet mount on the lens is designed to fail before the female mount on the camera.
Without analysing the physics of the impact on the grass its guesswork as to if the design of the handle is partly to blame.
The question to ask is has any thought been given to the handle and rosette screwed to the camera in regard to breakaway parts to reduce damage to the body?

In respect to improving the product, it may be trivial to make a larger base for the rosette and in harmony, reinforce the inside of the camera.

A better design is one where the handle is directly attached to the same piece of metal that forms the mounting point to a tripod.

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Re: 4.6k Took a Soft fall and Completely Broke

PostFri Jul 29, 2016 4:58 pm

I haven't disassembled the URSA Mini, but it looks like the entire side plate has been both cracked and pushed in (dented). The 'gentle' fall certainly exceeded the strength of the rosette and the side plate so it would take some engineering to strengthen that area one way or the other.


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Re: 4.6k Took a Soft fall and Completely Broke

PostFri Jul 29, 2016 5:10 pm

If they can't fix it, start a Kickstarter campaign to disassemble it and show off pics of all the parts :D There are enough fanboys and haters on this forum that speculate all day long about who makes what part of the camera that I'm sure you could raise at least a couple grand of people drooling over a teardown. Maybe you'll find the fabled missing GPS assembly that just needs a firmware update to be enabled :lol:
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Re: 4.6k Took a Soft fall and Completely Broke

PostSat Jul 30, 2016 3:57 am

jakemccurdy wrote:If they can't fix it, start a Kickstarter campaign to disassemble it and show off pics of all the parts :D There are enough fanboys and haters on this forum that speculate all day long about who makes what part of the camera that I'm sure you could raise at least a couple grand of people drooling over a teardown. Maybe you'll find the fabled missing GPS assembly that just needs a firmware update to be enabled :lol:

:D
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Re: 4.6k Took a Soft fall and Completely Broke

PostTue Sep 17, 2019 4:39 am

Hello everyone, unfortunately or fortunately my camera fell and damaged the lower body, unfortunately. Fortunately it works perfectly, but with damage to the lower body, it loses much value. I'm from Brazil São Paulo - And I need to buy this part of the camera, very hard to find. Blackmagic offers the exchange for 200 dollars. but it only changes at headquarters in Freemont, California. If someone here unfortunately lost his camera, but there is this piece that can sell me. contact! thanks :geek: :geek:
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