Blackmagic Forum

Instead of a zillion threads on TRIM problems, how about deciding the best course of action is getting TRIM implemented on the BMCC? And instead of waiting around for them to implement it, how about we dig up the necessary documentation for doing this over the SATA interface?

Yes, we can do this. TRIM was integrated into the Linux kernel version 2.6.33. So the technical specifications for accomplishing this, as well as the source code for doing it, is out there on the interwebs. Lets just dig it up, and dump it here in the thread.

EDIT: Nope. We don't even need any of that. Trim commands are so trivial that Blackmagic should be able to implement them quite easily. See 2nd post below.

i am the one wrote:Instead of a zillion threads on TRIM problems, how about deciding the best course of action is getting TRIM implemented on the BMCC? And instead of waiting around for them to implement it, how about we dig up the necessary documentation for doing this over the SATA interface?

Yes, we can do this. TRIM was integrated into the Linux kernel version 2.6.33. So the technical specifications for accomplishing this, as well as the source code for doing it, is out there on the interwebs. Lets just dig it up, and dump it here in the thread.

So are you proposing hacking the firmware of the BMCC?

This is the revision document to the ATA-8 command set for implementation of TRIM. It looks to me like an extremely simple implementation. Query the device to check for TRIM support. Send a TRIM command.

I think it is very reasonable to request, and expect Blackmagic implement this on the BMCC.

i am the one wrote:This is the revision document to the ATA-8 command set for implementation of TRIM. It looks to me like an extremely simple implementation. Query the device to check for TRIM support. Send a TRIM command.

I think it is extremely reasonable to request Blackmagic implement this on the BMCC.

Agreed - although they're still working on VU meters... so might be a while...

After talking with Black Magic and then Sandisk, I have confirmed that the Sandisk Extreme 480GB (recommended on the BMCC support page) actually handles "trim" on the drive controller. They call it "automatic trash handling" or something, but the drive does it all by itself.

What a relief.

I don't know about the other drives in question, but seems like I got lucky when I picked mine.

The drive Zack has is supposed to do that as well, but apparently it isn't working.

davechap wrote:After talking with Black Magic and then Sandisk, I have confirmed that the Sandisk Extreme 480GB (recommended on the BMCC support page) actually handles "trim" on the drive controller. They call it "automatic trash handling" or something, but the drive does it all by itself.

What a relief.

I don't know about the other drives in question, but seems like I got lucky when I picked mine.

You didn't get lucky, I have always trusted Sandisk Extreme products, and when it comes to Memory cards or SDD's Sandisk Extreme is the first name that pops in my mind,
I bought 4 480 GB SSD's on sale at B&H a few months ago and saved $40 per drive.

But I'm still confused about trim, cause these SSD drives will never be connected to a PC internally,
only via my USB3 Hub.

Darryl Gregory wrote:

davechap wrote:After talking with Black Magic and then Sandisk, I have confirmed that the Sandisk Extreme 480GB (recommended on the BMCC support page) actually handles "trim" on the drive controller. They call it "automatic trash handling" or something, but the drive does it all by itself.

What a relief.

I don't know about the other drives in question, but seems like I got lucky when I picked mine.

You didn't get lucky, I have always trusted Sandisk Extreme products, and when it comes to Memory cards or SDD's Sandisk Extreme is the first name that pops in my mind,
I bought 4 480 GB SSD's on sale at B&H a few months ago and saved $40 per drive.

But I'm still confused about trim, cause these SSD drives will never be connected to a PC internally,
only via my USB3 Hub.

Look at Dave's post above. He says the Sandisk Extreme does cleanup and garbage management automatically so you don't need the OS to send it a TRIM command to kickoff the process. That's good news since so many people here are relying on that SSD. Now there's still the problem someone is having on their Sandisk Extreme with the dropped frames...

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

After talking with Black Magic and then Sandisk, I have confirmed that the Sandisk Extreme 480GB (recommended on the BMCC support page) actually handles "trim" on the drive controller. They call it "automatic trash handling" or something, but the drive does it all by itself.

Yay! I was beginning to sweat the trim issue. I am a proud owner of these drives, and will continue to use them. I have had no problems with them at all, shooting almost entirely RAW.

I think all fairly recent SSDs have some kind of old file deleting method that they call Garbage collection, If you simply think of the SSD in the same way as a rechargeable battery, keep it charged up or in other words have it plugged into a powered cadi it should be good as new the following day. It does not need the sata connection.. At least this is what I thought

i am the one wrote:The drive Zack has is supposed to do that as well, but apparently it isn't working.

The M4 could be doing the garbage collection though and might be a BMCC issue with that particular SSD though. Especially since RAW is recording fine.

Zack Wilson wrote:

i am the one wrote:The drive Zack has is supposed to do that as well, but apparently it isn't working.

The M4 could be doing the garbage collection though and might be a BMCC issue with that particular SSD though. Especially since RAW is recording fine.

If RAW is fine then a SSD issue seems unlikely, as any issue would likely be worse with the higher data rate and therefore write speed.

My Crucial M4 dropped off the garbage rather than collected it during my interview shoot today. I hooked up the Thunderbolt cable to run Ultrascope while filming so I could monitor audio levels. Apparently this is the straw that will break the BMDCC's back because there are dropped frames like crazy in the ProRes recording making this shoot unusable.

I had run lots of tests that included messing with Ultrascope but I never recorded with it on...so much for testing..my bad. Would have been nice to have a warning but they can't test everything, either. Looks like I'm going to have to spring for a Sansdisk 480 just to get reliable recordings.

Zack Wilson wrote:The M4 could be doing the garbage collection though and might be a BMCC issue with that particular SSD though. Especially since RAW is recording fine.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that trim commands sent via a controller seem to be more effective/reliable than automatic garbage collection protocols implemented by various SSD manufacturers.

Instead of focusing on what SSDs do and don't manage automatic garbage collection properly, let's do as 'i am the one' suggested and request that Black Magic implement a simple trim command as part of a firmware update.

I, for one, would love a way to reformat drives in camera (provided there were sufficient safety prompts - as in 'are you sure you want to do this?') that also sent an automatic trim command in the process. This would ensure that all SSDs function at peak efficiency.

Black Magic, PLEASE add an SSD trim command to a future firmware patch!

We should keep this thread alive until a new firmware arrives (hopefully) with TRIM enabled...
or someone from Blackmagic giving some light on the issue.

Anyone know if the 240 Sandisk Extreme's also have that Auto TRIM?

Is this even necessary, when you format the drive every time, after you dumped the files?

What is the issue with trim? I didn't think the BMCC formatted/deleted clips, so why should it handle trim?

Frank Glencairn wrote:Is this even necessary, when you format the drive every time, after you dumped the files?

It would be fun it it wasn't but I don't really know.

Could be it is, since a quick format is just deleting the file and directory information but the data is still there.

Jace Ross wrote:What is the issue with trim? I didn't think the BMCC formatted/deleted clips, so why should it handle trim?

Aha, the voice of reason.

Erm, before you all start waving your pitchforks and demanding TRIM in a firmware update, shouldn't you be worrying about the ability to actually *delete* clips first?

TRIM is a function of deleting or erasing files from an SSD. Since the BMCC can't actually do this (deleting files), having the firmware support TRIM is entirely pointless.

Sound meters should be No.1 on the list of features to add IMHO, followed by deleting clips and showing available space.

Amen!

Isn't the TRIM command sent over USB connections the same as if the ssd were connected via SATA? I was given to understand that the primary limitation on getting your ssd TRIMmed being the OS?



Also, doesn't a slow format fix the problem of a ssd not having the TRIM command not sent to it?

S_Pfeiffer wrote:Isn't the TRIM command sent over USB connections the same as if the ssd were connected via SATA? I was given to understand that the primary limitation on getting your ssd TRIMmed being the OS?



Also, doesn't a slow format fix the problem of a ssd not having the TRIM command not sent to it?

TRIM should trigger on any TRIM enabled device as it's a hardware command, the variable would be the OS acknowledging the TRIM marked for deletion flag. It may be possible it doesn't recognize the command on the OS side coming from a USB/TB source. For those of you having issues, what OS are you using and how do you connect the drives?

I've always found sata to usb adapters to be troublesome and as such would suggest to those with issues try a hotswappable single bay NAS.

Well if it's about soundmeters, shouldn't sound be fixed before it can be metered ?