Juiced Link vs. Wooden Camera A-Box

Hi Guys,

I have no idea how to go about recording sound on the BMCC. I have a Zoom H4N, but I'd rather record the sound onto the camera.

What would you suggest to be a better route ? Wooden Camera A-Box or the JuicedLink ?

What is the difference between these options ?

Thank you in advance !

Mert

I'm in pretty much the same situation as you. What I've learned from other posters here who've tried it already, we're both going to need to get a preamp of some kind. The JuicedLink preamps get pretty good reviews, and if you go that route you'll need one with meters since BMD hasn't put audio meters on the camera (yet?). The A-box would get you the right connection, but probably not enough gain to be of much use. You do get much better sound quality even with a Zoom recorder if you put a good preamp in front of it and keep the recorder gain low, and use the preamp when you do need gain.

What I don't like about the JuicedLink preamps is that they're very specific to digital SLRs, which means that they provide very few options as far as output, that is to say one option, and it's not a professional grade option. The Hollywood sound guy that did a presentation for ASMP in Seattle about 18 months ago said that one of the reasons that production companies avoid the 1/8th in connectors is that they're not reliable under extended use. BMD provided a pro grade connector option, even though it's a little bit uncommon on recording devices. Pro synthesizers usually have 1/4 inch jacks like the one on the BMCC.

I'm actually leaning toward a Sound Devices MixPre-D, because as far as I've been able to ascertain, it has the best sound quality out of the portable field mixer/preamps out there, plus the analog to digital stage and I/O flexibility make it flexible. It's pricey, but probably worth it in the long term, to ensure that the sound is as good as the picture with the BMCC.

Hopefully this will encourage someone more knowledgable about it than I to respond

One of the best options would be the MixPre from sound devices. It's got real good meters not just 4 LEDs like juicedlink as well as its not dslr targeted preamp. Comes twice expensive then juicedlink though.
Abox is just connector adapter/converter, not a preamp or even phantom.

Peter has described his setup in this thread really well
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4848&start=10

I tested my juicedlink DS214 (cheapest model) with the BMCC and it sounds fantastic. No hiss whatsoever.

I tested my juicedlink DS214 (cheapest model) with the BMCC and it sounds fantastic. No hiss whatsoever.

Does this unit supply Phantom Power? I don't see it in the specs.

edit: Nevermind I just saw it doesn't even have XLR connections. Sorry. What microphone are you using with this?

I plug in a Rode Videomic. Also have a Sennheiser G2 wireless lav that has either an XLR or 3.5mm jack input that I plug in as well.

The JuicedLink preamps have XLR inputs, but not every model has phantom power. None afaik have XLR outputs.

I was looking into a Beach Tek brand today, it has a preamp and provides phantom power, but I didn't buy it because I wanted to do more researh.

Here's the link :

http://www.adorama.com/VDBDXASLR.html

I'll go to BH on Sunday and read a little bit more before then..

It really depends on what you want from your production.

If money isn't an option obviously, I'd go with a SD 702/302 combo. But that's super pricey. If you're adamant about recording audio on camera, aside from the quality of microphones you're using (being that the better quality mics will demand better preamps, mixers, recorders) you'll want to consider two things:

1. What level of quality do you need? The Sound Devices MixPre-D into your BMCC sounds like the best bet. It's pricey, they float around 900 USD new, but you're getting quality kit that will last you a long time. Do you need high quality/low noise preamps? Do you need the ability to monitor/mix levels on the fly? If the answer is yes, then go this route.

2. Are you a "One man band" or do you have a dedicated sound guy? If you're a one man band, I might consider the beachtek/juicedlink route as they're easier to operate solo. Quality of audio wont be as nice as the SD, but it will definitely work. I have no experience with their preamps, so how well they'll do at high gain is anyone's guess.

I'm not rich, so I can't afford cheap things.

This is true for many things, but oh so true for audio. If the audio is stellar, the audience can live with sub-par video, but it doesn't work the other way around. 4k raw footage with terrible audio is downright unbearable.

This is true for many things, but oh so true for audio. If the audio is stellar, the audience can live with sub-par video, but it doesn't work the other way around. 4k raw footage with terrible audio is downright unbearable.

This is what lead to Tomlinson Holman and George Lucas' creation of the THX program.

I'm not rich, so I can't afford cheap things.

Well said.

JuicedLink and BeachTek seem to be the option you pick when you want good value for your money. Sound Devices is what you get if you have the bux for it.

I would beg to differ regarding 'the quality of the audio' in JuicedLink vs Sound Devices. The JuicedLInk preamp rivals very very good ones. That is not a problem. There is no limiter, but I usually don't need that, and I agree with Rozak that the proper place for meters is in the final destination, the camera. If BMD would only finish that part of the firmware!! The 'meters' on the Riggy Assist are not worth much, true, so that is not an option, but the big difference between a Riggy Micro (one with phantom) and the Mix Pre-D is that the Riggy is designed to bolt to the camera rig, and the Mix Pre-D is better suited to be carried in a bag by the sound guy.

There can be major problems getting decent location audio, but they usually revolve around the location ambient sounds, room characteristics, the ability to get your boom in close enough, and the quality of the shotgun, in my experience.

Regarding the little mini-plug on the Riggy Micros, they are not ideal, but mine just sits there, with the plug in it, and it does not get plugged in and out, so I don't see much of an issue there.

For an idea of how good even the $144 juicedlink DS214 is, listen to this. Was recorded with a wireless lav in the middle of an office with high echo-y cielings, not a studio soundstage or anything. Recorded directly into a 7D.

This is all 3.5mm jack inputs. No XLRs anywhere.

I'm a fan of beachtek/Juicedlink as they're great niche products. Anyone who lived in the Canon 7D days knows how horrid the AGC was, making separate audio recording a practical must. Beachtek/Juicedlink came along with cleaner preamps and AGC disable and a wonderful product was born.

I'm a fan, but to a limit. I've never owned a beachtek/juiced link that has survived over 3 years under constant field use. Now a 3 year life for the price range aint bad, but audio is a department unlike video. People make comparisons that Microphones are like glass, they're the biggest investment in the chain, (which I agree to) and camera bodies are like mixers/recorders. Which I don't agree with so much. Good quality audio gear can last way longer than a camera body stays viable at the rate technology advances.

Save for the SD USBpre2 or MixPre-D if you can. SD units hold their value really well, and as long as you care for them, there will always be a used market for them. I'd recommend Sound Devices in a hurry, but their recent 15-20% price hike across the board makes it harder, but you still get what you pay for.

Despite my ramblings, you still have to consider what your goals are. I can see a beachtek/juicedlink unit working out. If its for paid commercial gigs, minor broadcast, and internet publishing and you can ride the levels around -6db and you can manage a good mix in post, I'd say, go for it. But if you start doing serious broadcast work, your producers (a knowledgeable one anywho) is going to tell you straight to your face, that a prosumer unit isn't going to cut it. The same goes for even indie movie productions. I can tell you from first hand experience that amateur audio and an amateur mix is going to REALLY hurt your chances of getting accepted to a festival. 99% of the audience isn't going to be able to pinpoint/understand undersized boken or chromatic abberations, but 99% will notice a bad audio job.

And I haven't even asked, what mics are you using?

Thank you for all the recommendations.

I think I will go with the JuicedLink. Sound devices sounds like a good investment towards future, but I want to be able to mount it to the rig and not have to have a separate sound guy to operate the sound device.

What kind of mic's would you recommend ?

Indoors/Outdoors, types of shooting (narrative film, interviews, run/gun) and of course, and unfortunately... budget.

Something around $200 would be great, run and gun to use for on location, outdoor and indoor use..

Check these out:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/300615-REG/Audio_Technica_AT897_AT897_Short_Condenser.html

I've been using Audio Technica shotgun mics for my own work, since I have one of their longer stereo models, and at school we have a short mono version for our class projects. Both of them have exceeded expectations as far as sound quality, and they're also very well built.

cool, thank you for all the help.

After some research, I decided to go with Juiced Link Riggy Assist RA222. It has the monitoring option, which BMCC doesn't provide yet. I have an SmallHD AC7, they also don't have audio monitoring, so I think it will be useful.

Robert from JuicedLink was also very helpful and available, it's great to see that he just saw this post here and approached to help out.