Is the URSA Mini already starting to show its age?

Maybe some part of the ISO discussion comes from the different backgrounds? As I mentioned before, for docs, nature and at some level for ENG, higher gain can be quite a nice thing to have. I can see how people who do primarily narrative/scripted work under controlled conditions don't see the need and see it as "having the camera light the scene", but there are situations where it really is a good thing to have! Try ENG in winter in Finland, where it gets dark outside already at 2 or 3pm .
Which is where we IMHO come back to the question what market BMD is targeting with their cameras .

Riddle me this- if the BMD cameras were more expensive would they still be an attractive alternative in the market?

I'll bite on the riddle. If BMD had priced the UMPro at c200 and Vari-EVA1 prices, the UMPro would still be difficult to ignore since it excels on both the cine side and the broadcast side internally. Even looking at the $10K Sony FS7 and c300mk2, the BMD does more internally, without extensions and external recorders. What is lacking in the UMPro is AF and IS. The color science could be the deciding factor for most folks between these contenders but personal manufacturer preference probably rules the day when the pricing is just a few thousand dollars apart.

Maybe some part of the ISO discussion comes from the different backgrounds? As I mentioned before, for docs, nature and at some level for ENG, higher gain can be quite a nice thing to have. I can see how people who do primarily narrative/scripted work under controlled conditions don't see the need and see it as "having the camera light the scene", but there are situations where it really is a good thing to have! Try ENG in winter in Finland, where it gets dark outside already at 2 or 3pm .
Which is where we IMHO come back to the question what market BMD is targeting with their cameras .

I think this nails it. There seems to be a big divide in opinions between the studio/film set/working on a controlled set w/ crew crowd, and the One-Man-Band, guerrilla, rebel without a crew types here as far as what features they find important to them.

I think everyone agrees that they love the BM image quality, and if you're in the first group the original 4.6k mini pretty much gives you everything you need, and exactly why I purchased one. The upgrades offered by the UMP, are of minimal value to me, interchangeable mount being the only one that really interested me, however, if I was out shooting by myself, that would be a whole different story, and I probably would have looked for different features to suit what I'm shooting.

At the end of the day though, it shouldn't be a competition to decide which camera is "better", it should be about choosing the right camera to suit what you shoot, i.e. right tool for the job.

When dinosaurs roamed the earth I worked as a lighting cameraman for broadcast television.
The idea that one could purchase any of the BMD cameras at the price that they charge was not something that was entertained.

In those days, and yes they did exist, there was a segregation that naturally occurred between the film people and video people.

Their universes were different and so was the equipment that was used to record moving pictures.
It mattered if you were shooting for the small or big screen.
Lighting techniques for video were different. At that time one lit so that the camera actually could see something.
Then CCD came along and slowly everything started to change.
So here we are now, for under $6000.00 you can purchase a camera that does the dishes and can communicate via bluetooth.

"Is the URSA Mini already starting to show its age?" I laugh at you.

It also has a lot to do with your personal shooting style.

I did the typical high gloss docus for TV, with a crew of five and more, moving everything from lights to cranes around in 2 trucks, and the way you work, it's close to shooting a narrative.

I also did a lot of one man show docus, with way less gear.
But doesn't mean, I ditch the tripod, and shoot everything from my shoulder. That doesn't mean I don't light, just because I don't have a crew. And certainly, that doesn't mean, that I switch to ENG mode, and do something that looks like news, instead of high glossy docu, just because I don't have a crew.

I would never compromise, my visual style, just because I do a one man show.
It only means, that I have to work harder, I have to get better, and need more careful planning.

myct2

Right in Frank, +1
Cheers

Here's a couple more with before and after. These were meant to be DAY scenes and were shot WELL AFTER the sun had gone down.

Judge for yourself. You can see the original and the graded dailies. I have better examples with main cast but I'm not able to post those.

Again these are dailies grades using CDL by a great colourist limited to ONLY primary grading tools. No NR, no windows, no secondaries.

When I was shooting these I thought there was no way in hell they would come back. I couldn't even pick focus in the EVF. But we had to keep going because there were stunts involved we'd spent a long time rigging.

These shots are in the first episode which goes to air on Thursday night in the US. With the final grade and added NR they look great and intercut very well with shots done earlier in the day.

ExDStill_QOTS_170131_010438.jpg

ExDStill_QOTS_170131_010447.jpg

JB

John, how did you get it to come back this much? i shot very dark images in 1080p prores 4444XQ on T1.5 but it has more ambient light than your scene. yet when I adjust midshipmen's and highlights it falls apart very fast.
no where near what your getting.

I got the Ursa Mini Pro last week. I feel a little concerned about the FPN. John, your images are gorgeous but I don't know how you captured that dusk shot so clean. I think Mikko was talking about the same issues I'm having but I can't see his images, they're broken (wrong DropBox permissions I think).

Here's an example of my issue, check out the vertical lines / noise in the lighter areas. You need to download and open on your computer -

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B49FU ... TVVbC02d2M

John, how did you get it to come back this much? i shot very dark images in 1080p prores 4444XQ on T1.5 but it has more ambient light than your scene. yet when I adjust midshipmen's and highlights it falls apart very fast.
no where near what your getting.

I can't speak without knowing your shot, but a skilled colourist counts for a lot.

JB

Frank, I've completely changed from using the regular primaries to using the primaries via the Log adjustments option. Might be worth a try. Or instead of the wheels or bars, try the curves tool. A little change in curves can make a big difference so go gradually. Often creating a gentle 'S' curve will help.


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I would never compromise, my visual style, just because I do a one man show.
It only means, that I have to work harder, I have to get better, and need more careful planning.

myct2

Just what I think and summs all up. And as JB said, otherwise is just being lazy or lacking minimum talent for the job.

I cant understand how CAN'T you shoot a feature in a BMCC, as some say, let alone the 4.6k cameras. '

I think for some time now it's not anymore about what camera but what you can do with that camera what counts. But many seem to try to compensate that with 'specs'.

I would never compromise, my visual style, just because I do a one man show.
It only means, that I have to work harder, I have to get better, and need more careful planning.

myct2

Just what I think and summs all up. And as JB said, otherwise is just being lazy or lacking minimum talent for the job.

I cant understand how CAN'T you shoot a feature in a BMCC, as some say, let alone the 4.6k cameras. '

I think for some time now it's not anymore about what camera but what you can do with that camera what counts. But many seem to try to compensate that with 'specs'.

+1