BMCC out of phace

My Blackmagic Cinema Camera is out of phase. Colours/Colors do not look right. Reds are brown. I'm recording Prores Video. Who has the answer to this?

What white balance did you use on both cameras? Also, what lens did you use on the BMCC?

My Blackmagic Cinema Camera is out of phase. Colours/Colors do not look right. Reds are brown. I'm recording Prores Video. Who has the answer to this?

Are you using the exact same lens, exact same white balance and are you using any filters at all?

Are you balancing the colour in post?

I used 50K and 56K with almost the same results. I even tried 75K, which way off. 45K was the closest to reality as far as the talent clothing was but then it had bluish tint to it. Lens: Cannon efs 17-55mm Lighting: FloLight Florescent lights. HVR-Z1U has manual white balance so we use the white paper infront of the camera way.

My Blackmagic Cinema Camera is out of phase. Colours/Colors do not look right. Reds are brown. I'm recording Prores Video. Who has the answer to this?

Are you using the exact same lens, exact same white balance and are you using any filters at all?

Are you balancing the colour in post?

No I have not balanced the color in post. Look at her lips, she had red lipstick but it appears brownish. Her dress in reality is pink, but this is not pink. I shot ProRes video. Not film. With video, I don't need to have it graded in Davinci.

I've never had two different cameras provide the exact same color representation. The closest that I've come is having the same brand of cameras match fairly well (e.g., two different models of Canon DSLRs). Matching between a Sony PMW-EX1 and Canon 5D Mark III, for example, is something that people work very hard to do to get close to doing.

Same goes for white balance. I white balance one camera and it reports 5200k and the other reports 4900k.

I'm not sure where the surprise is here. Were both cameras balanced to a color chart to begin with? Was the Sony white balanced? To what temp? Since the BMCC only has a limited temp setting, I'm not surprised that some adjustment is necessary to get it to match another camera.

Dont forget the BMCC is going to have a way diff curve on it than the Sony. Were you in Film Mode by any chance on the BMCC? Did you paint the Sony in any way?
I would never expect a BMCC to be anywhere near a HDV camera out of the box. It's not designed as such. It's much more targeted to people who are going to spend a few seconds color correcting at least with 1 pass before delivery.

My Blackmagic Cinema Camera is out of phase. Colours/Colors do not look right. Reds are brown. I'm recording Prores Video. Who has the answer to this?

Are you using the exact same lens, exact same white balance and are you using any filters at all?

Are you balancing the colour in post?

No I have not balanced the color in post. Look at her lips, she had red lipstick but it appears brownish. Her dress in reality is pink, but this is not pink. I shot ProRes video. Not film. With video, I don't need to have it graded in Davinci.

2 different camera models matching without grading even from the same manufacturer is a rare thing.

The BMCC even in Video mode is still expected to be graded, not in Resolve every time but something, even if its only the NLE's built in tools.

Video and Film modes are just there as starting points really, not as shoot this and you'll get something that looks like this.

What I'm saying here is that the colors do not match what you see with the naked eye even after white balance! If a cloth is red and it tuns out to be brown, a red lipstick turns out to be brown, don't you think something is wrong? It seems like people here defend BMCC no matter what! I gave the HVR-Z1U image so you can tell the diference between what looks close to the naked eye Vs what BMCC see. Of course I know not even the same model of cameras can give the exact color range 100% all the time.

I've never had two different cameras provide the exact same color representation. The closest that I've come is having the same brand of cameras match fairly well (e.g., two different models of Canon DSLRs). Matching between a Sony PMW-EX1 and Canon 5D Mark III, for example, is something that people work very hard to do to get close to doing.

Same goes for white balance. I white balance one camera and it reports 5200k and the other reports 4900k.

I'm not sure where the surprise is here. Were both cameras balanced to a color chart to begin with? Was the Sony white balanced? To what temp? Since the BMCC only has a limited temp setting, I'm not surprised that some adjustment is necessary to get it to match another camera.

What I'm saying here is that the colors do not match what you see with the naked eye even after white balance! If a cloth is red and it tuns out to be brown, a red lipstick turns out to be brown, don't you think something is wrong? It seems like people here defend BMCC no matter what! I gave the HVR-Z1U image so you can tell the diference between what looks close to the naked eye Vs what BMCC see. Of course I know not even the same model of cameras can give the exact color range 100% all the time.

I've never had two different cameras provide the exact same color representation. The closest that I've come is having the same brand of cameras match fairly well (e.g., two different models of Canon DSLRs). Matching between a Sony PMW-EX1 and Canon 5D Mark III, for example, is something that people work very hard to do to get close to doing.

Same goes for white balance. I white balance one camera and it reports 5200k and the other reports 4900k.

I'm not sure where the surprise is here. Were both cameras balanced to a color chart to begin with? Was the Sony white balanced? To what temp? Since the BMCC only has a limited temp setting, I'm not surprised that some adjustment is necessary to get it to match another camera.

The BMCC is a CINEMA camera, it's final results are not supposed to be a perfect real life representation of what you are filming. I've seen a lot of cinema films over the years and while they often looked right none of them ever looked like naked eye representations, they all had a lot of stylisation in the colour reproduction.

Video cameras are supposed to make things look right straight out of the camera as that suits one of their main roles. Cameras like the BMCC can be used to reproduce the same thing but they need work in post (a LUT could probably be knocked up that solves most of your issues with this with minimal if any post application tweaking).

If you want to use a camera to get the sort of results your other camera looks like just higher quality, and with minimal post then the BMCC is not the camera for you. The BMCC is a flawed camera (most are even if you pay silly money there are flaws) and not a camera suited to many roles, but the same can be said of RED cameras, Alexa's, Sonys. The BMCC is not a camera for everyone (not me I'm thinking about it as a B for a scarlet, in part for the full version of resolve, and will likely decelop a range of looks and LUTs in DaVinci to speed up the process of matching them)

Assuming both are the same lighting theres the first issue, Two different cameras, to get similar looks its often best to at least subtly change the lighting to help.

What I'm saying here is that the colors do not match what you see with the naked eye even after white balance! If a cloth is red and it tuns out to be brown, a red lipstick turns out to be brown, don't you think something is wrong? It seems like people here defend BMCC no matter what! I gave the HVR-Z1U image so you can tell the diference between what looks close to the naked eye Vs what BMCC see. Of course I know not even the same model of cameras can give the exact color range 100% all the time.

You didn't answer my questions.

How did you white balance the BMCC? Did you have a grey card that you set the white balance in post to? Show us a shot of that same grey card with both cameras showing that the greys match, then show us the jpg of the woman with those color settings. Just looking at the teeth of the small jpg you attached seems to show a green cast to my eyes. This suggests that the white balance is not set on the BMCC footage (or is set differently).

What I'm saying here is that the colors do not match what you see with the naked eye even after white balance!

It's like a getthoblaster vs. linear nearfild monitor speakers.

The getthoblaster applies all sorts of modification to the signal to make it sound nice - professional linear monitors don't do that, they don't touch the signal, they give you just the raw sound (which is seldom so nice).

Now it's up to you, to make it nice with your tools, instead of letting the
getthoblaster (camera) decide that for you.

That's what the BMC is all about - options. It's your choice, not the cameras.

Frank

What I'm saying here is that the colors do not match what you see with the naked eye even after white balance! If a cloth is red and it tuns out to be brown, a red lipstick turns out to be brown, don't you think something is wrong? It seems like people here defend BMCC no matter what! I gave the HVR-Z1U image so you can tell the diference between what looks close to the naked eye Vs what BMCC see. Of course I know not even the same model of cameras can give the exact color range 100% all the time.

You didn't answer my questions.

How did you white balance the BMCC? Did you have a grey card that you set the white balance in post to? Show us a shot of that same grey card with both cameras showing that the greys match, then show us the jpg of the woman with those color settings. Just looking at the teeth of the small jpg you attached seems to show a green cast to my eyes. This suggests that the white balance is not set on the BMCC footage (or is set differently).

I have not done any white balance in post. Unless I'm missing something, BMCC does not have custom white balance. The choices to use are preset: 32K, 45K, 50K, 56K, 65K and 75K. It does not work like still cameras. While balancing in video cameras do not use grey cards. You place a white card infront of it and press white balance.

What I'm saying here is that the colors do not match what you see with the naked eye even after white balance!

It's like a getthoblaster vs. linear nearfild monitor speakers.

The getthoblaster applies all sorts of modification to the signal to make it sound nice - professional linear monitors don't do that, they don't touch the signal, they give you just the raw sound (which is seldom so nice).

Now it's up to you, to make it nice with your tools, instead of letting the
getthoblaster (camera) decide that for you.

That's what the BMC is all about - options. It's your choice, not the cameras.

Frank

I understand what you mean. But you don't just record wind blasting the mic because it can be fixed in post! It is always good to begin with the best quality that the tool can offer and if need be, do minor fixes in post. You don't just record anything with the hope of fixing in post. My complain here is that the colors are not right from the initial image!

I have not done any white balance in post. Unless I'm missing something, BMCC does not have custom white balance. The choices to use are preset: 32K, 45K, 50K, 56K, 65K and 75K. It does not work like still cameras. While balancing in video cameras do not use grey cards. You place a white card infront of it and press white balance.

This is the point that you seem to be missing. The BMCC is not white balanced to match this lighting/scene. You had said that it was white balanced. It is not. Adjust the white balance in post and your colors will be fine.

And, I should add that, by "your colors should be fine", I don't me that they will match exactly to the other camera.

My Blackmagic Cinema Camera is out of phase. Colours/Colors do not look right. Reds are brown. I'm recording Prores Video. Who has the answer to this?

1.) Your white balance is off slightly.
2.) Shame on you for filming "video" mode ProRes on green screen
3.) Shame on you for filming on green screen and then saying colors should be fine as is. Spill happens.
4.) You filmed green screen, you have to send it to post. Fix it in post.
5.) Brown is just a de-sauturated slightly orange red. Cool the mids and up the saturation.
6.) Shame on you for comparing the BMCC with an Sony HDV cam

My Blackmagic Cinema Camera is out of phase. Colours/Colors do not look right. Reds are brown. I'm recording Prores Video. Who has the answer to this?

1.) Your white balance is off slightly.
2.) Shame on you for filming "video" mode ProRes on green screen
3.) Shame on you for filming on green screen and then saying colors should be fine as is. Spill happens.
4.) You filmed green screen, you have to send it to post. Fix it in post.
5.) Brown is just a de-sauturated slightly orange red. Cool the mids and up the saturation.
6.) Shame on you for comparing the BMCC with an Sony HDV cam

Actually I find this funny ! The problem I find with this production is that my subject has contacts that are highly reflective to the light. The eyes end up looking strange when chromaKey is applied.

Don't worry, next time I will shoot RAW. Are you happy now?

My Blackmagic Cinema Camera is out of phase. Colours/Colors do not look right. Reds are brown. I'm recording Prores Video. Who has the answer to this?

1.) Your white balance is off slightly.
2.) Shame on you for filming "video" mode ProRes on green screen
3.) Shame on you for filming on green screen and then saying colors should be fine as is. Spill happens.
4.) You filmed green screen, you have to send it to post. Fix it in post.
5.) Brown is just a de-sauturated slightly orange red. Cool the mids and up the saturation.
6.) Shame on you for comparing the BMCC with an Sony HDV cam

Actually I find this funny ! The problem I find with this production is that my subject has contacts that are highly reflective to the light. The eyes end up looking strange when chromaKey is applied.

Don't worry, next time I will shoot RAW. Are you happy now?

You don't need to shoot Raw, you can shoot ProRes "Film" and you'll be fine. but seriously cool the mids and up the saturation and it should "match" your other sample.
My whole point is that if you film on green screen you are going to have to do post work on the clip, so you already have to correct the image to get your key. So why you're complaining about a desaturated image is bewildering to a VFX artist.

I get all these points.
But the question on how the get the best result in video mode is actually very interesting.

Eg. I have to film a concert that takes 5 hours in a couple of weeks with 2 BMCC (rented).
So I won't have any option to film in RAW. I need video mode because I will capture this on a computer.
Thanks to everyone that helped me to find out about how to do that.

Also I need to preserve the most natural color representation. Footage of a classical concert with lots of characters on the stage and wooden string instruments should not have a tone or style to it.

Can we give a best practice step guide on how to adjust white balance best in video mode?

Manual setting of white balance is not possible. So how would you meter it?
What about the exposure? Also 2 stops higher than on a DSLR?

Regards

[

I understand what you mean. But you don't just record wind blasting the mic because it can be fixed in post! It is always good to begin with the best quality that the tool can offer and if need be, do minor fixes in post. You don't just record anything with the hope of fixing in post. My complain here is that the colors are not right from the initial image!

And exactly that's a misconception.

With the cameras and workflow you are used to, you NOT begun with the best quality, as you said. You begun with a heavily molested image (that was ready to broadcast though), that gave you not much room in post, before it fell apart. Because the camera already made a ton of decisions for you.

With the BMC you don't "fix it in post", cause there is nothing broken.
It gives you all, the sensor can capture, without throwing colors and resolution out of the window, manipulating colors (picture profile), DR and contrast, no denoising or sharpening andwhatnot.

So this camera is not made for "getting it right in the box", it's your job to get it right in post, which is way different than "fixing it" in post.

The BMC is a different beast. It give you all the possible options you can have, but not everybody can handle this.

Can we give a best practice step guide on how to adjust white balance best in video mode?

Manual setting of white balance is not possible. So how would you meter it?
What about the exposure? Also 2 stops higher than on a DSLR?

You guys must free your mind from the idea, that the BMC is recording color.
Raw is black and white - the color comes with the debaiering on your computer - everything else (white balance for example) is just metadata that is temporarily applied like a layer above the image, but it has nothing to do with the image.

When recording ProRes, in Video mode, that metadata is baked in. But when you shoot in Film mode, there is still enough room to change WB without any damage. Since your scene is not changing on a concert the whole thing is just a single node in Resolve or whatever you use. I don't get the problem.

Same goes for exposure. Set your Zebras to 100%, make sure they don't show up and you are golden (I should make this my signature).
In your NLE you pull it down till you like it and you are done.

hahaha Frank you are the man! Tell em!

I can confirm that there appears to be an issue with the Video mode LUT built into the camera. I initially ran this up the support chain at BMD months ago, but so far they haven't been able to give me a response.

In summary:

* Recording to ProRes in video mode, reds appear orange and bright greens become yellow.
* Recording in Film mode and selecting the appropriate Rec. 709 LUT everything looks fine.

It's not a simple white balance issue either, because if you shift the yellow back to green, the red turns to yellow. They are being shifted in-camera in opposite directions. (Have a look at the Rec. 709 color chart and you will see what I mean)

This also occurs on the display, SDI and thunderbolt outputs when setting them to video mode separately to the recording. (As a preview)

So I guess this means sticking to film mode for now.

Martin

Are you guys watching ProRes shot under "Video" on a production monitor calibrated to 709, or just on your computer display?

In summary:

* Recording to ProRes in video mode, reds appear orange and bright greens become yellow.
* Recording in Film mode and selecting the appropriate Rec. 709 LUT everything looks fine.

It's not a simple white balance issue either, because if you shift the yellow back to green, the red turns to yellow. They are being shifted in-camera in opposite directions. (Have a look at the Rec. 709 color chart and you will see what I mean)

I can confirm this experience. Went on a reccy the other day to check out locations, and this was the first time I'd used the video mode. Thought I was going a bit bonkers. Have only looked at this on a computer monitor.

Also note that every camera reacts quite differently to fluorescent lights. Cheap fluos can have very strange spectrums. Or were these Kinoflos, which are pretty neutral?

My situation is strange. Anthing that is red when recorded in video mode, it is oranges. Something is really wrong here. I know majority of people do not want to agree with a few of us experiencing these dificulties but the camera has a diffect. It doesn't matter what kind of light I shoot under, the result are the same including daylight. Two days when I got the camera, colors seemed OK. Now with time, they keep changing!

Before, red colors were brown and now they are orange! Orange colors are yellow!

[CaptainHook]

I actually noticed red=orange on the BMCC display and just thought the screen was very inaccurate. But now that you guys mention it, it would make sense it's the Video mode since even though i record in Film mode or raw i'm looking at video mode on the display.

I actually noticed red=orange on the BMCC display and just thought the screen was very inaccurate. But now that you guys mention it, it would make sense it's the Video mode since even though i record in Film mode or raw i'm looking at video mode on the display.

When footage is recorded in video mode, the recorded video is: Red = Orange. It is not just the BMCC monitor. Whatever you see on the BMCC monitor, is what you get at playback on a pro monitor. Red = Orange and Orange = Yellowish. Something is wrong. The staff at Blackmagic Designs are avoiding to answer this. I tool the Camera at one of our leading rental place here in Minnesota; engineers at the place agree that something is very wrong with the camera in the way it is interpreting colors.

There is a lot of silly defensiveness regarding this camera.
There is clearly something wrong with how some of the colors are being rendered in this mode.
It doesn't matter how much work you do in post, there is a distortion here which will be difficult to recover properly. It probably is a LUT that needs tweaking somewhere.
I have been grading for a LONG time, and even I can tell this at first glance.
The first thing to do is to shoot a proper color chart to see where the anomalies are happening.
Include a real grey scale as well.

Further, even though this is a "cinema" camera, when shooting in Video mode, the OP should be getting something a lot closer to REC709 as an output, whether he monitors in that color space or not. That is the whole point of that mode. There should be a simple Primary correction here and basta. This image wiil probably need some work in the secondaries beyond the green screen itself and that is not how it should be. (Even though I wouldn't normally shoot a chroma key in this mode) Blackmagic needs to do some updating in this area. That is not a heavy criticism of them, it is just an ordinary reality. Improve the output from the Video mode by tweaking the LUT's. That's it.

As an added note, for the poster who spent his time "shaming" the OP:
Your whole attitude is extremely offensive and inconsiderate. Shame on you.

There is a lot of silly defensiveness regarding this camera.
There is clearly something wrong with how some of the colors are being rendered.
It doesn't matter how much work you do in post, there is a distortion here which will be difficult to recover properly.
I have been grading for a LONG time, and even I can tell this at first glance.
The first thing to do is to shoot a proper color chart to see where the anomalies are happening.
Include a real grey scale as well.

Agreed color charts and grey scale charts will improve your knowledge of this camera
and it's anomalies so that you can adjust lighting accordingly.

But lets not forget most of you are color correcting off a simple PC LCD Monitor or worse
with no calibration applied, This may or may not be causing inaccuracies in post color, But it
will cause users to over saturate and push the blacks beyond safe values.

I highly suggest using a monitor calibration tool for your LCD's, and using a Plasma as your "HERO" monitor since it has greater color detail and deep (True) black levels.

Here is a good start, and a good read, not so much from a colorist, just a good read for all.
http://vanhurkman.com/wordpress/?p=2284

But lets not forget most of you are color correcting off a simple PC LCD Monitor or worse
with no calibration applied, This may or may not be causing inaccuracies in post color, But it
will cause users to over saturate and push the blacks beyond safe values.

I highly suggest using a monitor calibration tool for your LCD's, and using a Plasma as your "HERO" monitor since it has greater color detail and deep (True) black levels.

... and let's not forget to set your monitor gamma to 2.5 when dealing with 709 footy.

... and let's not forget to set your monitor gamma to 2.5 when dealing with 709 footy.

Perhaps just a typo. I think the Rec.709 gamma is 2.4.

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Perhaps just a typo. I think the Rec.709 gamma is 2.4.

Depends on who you are asking

From Alexis Hurkman's Color Correction Handbook:
2.5 This is the gamma for both SD and HD video displays as defined by the Rec. 709 standard.

Charles Poynton:
Rec. 709 is written as if it specifies the capture and transfer characteristics of HDTV encoding - that is, as if it were scene-referred. However, in practice it is output (display) referred with the convention of a 2.4-power function display [2.35 power function in EBU recommendations]. (Rec. 709 and sRGB share the same primary chromaticities and white point chromaticity; however, sRGB is explicitly output (display) referred with an average gamma of 2.2.)

Colourist group at LinkedIn, thread "Gamma Curve Setting for our critical colour evaluation monitor"
"It mostly depends on the viewing environment. General recommendations are 2.0 in non controlled daylight lighting, 2.2 in dim light and 2.5 in dark room. In a telecine room (...) 2.3-2.4, in a brighter room where there is light from the outside 2.2. And between 25 and 35 fL depending on the lighting and the technology, more like 20 for a dark room if it's a monitor, 16 fL (14 with LUT) for projection".

FSI default rec. 709 shipping setup: Gamma 2.2

Chris Wiggles: Rec. 709 *does not* define display gamma. At all.

Bram Desmet, Flanders Scientific, Inc: The EBU does recommend a nominal value of 2.35

In a nutshell: the whole Gamma/Colorspace/Display shebang is a huge mess in the moment.

Perhaps just a typo. I think the Rec.709 gamma is 2.4.

Depends on who you are asking

In a nutshell: the whole Gamma/Colorspace/Display shebang is a huge mess in the moment.

Thanks, Frank. Apologies. I had no idea there was so much variation in the implementation and nothing in the actual standard even though I thought at one time when I was calibrating my iMac that I had read gamma should be set to 2.4 compared to sRGB at gamma 2.2. I might have known you are not the kind of guy that makes typos!

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

When footage is recorded in video mode, the recorded video is: Red = Orange. It is not just the BMCC monitor. Whatever you see on the BMCC monitor, is what you get at playback on a pro monitor. Red = Orange and Orange = Yellowish. Something is wrong. The staff at Blackmagic Designs are avoiding to answer this. I tool the Camera at one of our leading rental place here in Minnesota; engineers at the place agree that something is very wrong with the camera in the way it is interpreting colors.

Clockwise from upper left: Video (uncorrected); Video (corrected); Film (corrected); Film (uncorrected)

VideoFilm.jpg (253.32 KiB) Viewed 25070 times

I was interested in the comments in this thread, so thought I'd test for myself. Anyone else can test the same. I shot my small color chart using DNxHD and Rec=Film and Rec=Video modes. Then, I "corrected" them to set white and black levels and to do very minor color corrections, all using MB Looks 2 in my NLE (Vegas Pro 12) - no use of Resolve here. My color corrections aren't perfect, but I did nothing more sophisticated than using MB Looks' Colorista 3-way, Contrast, Saturation, and Exposure tools. The uncorrected versions are shown so that you can play around, too.

The color chart was shot under tungsten lighting using the 3200k setting. Shot under same lighting with same f-stop.

To my eyes, I see a slight shift of red to orange in Video that isn't there in Film mode. But, it isn't huge. Given that I didn't use a LUT, I'm not even confident that the shift is due to the BMCC and not my adjustments. My other observation is that there seems to be more noise in the Video mode setting that doesn't seem to be there in Film mode.

I know this thread is mainly about the rec 709 being baked into camera, where the "anomalies" of the reds and oranges are showing up, I first noticed them too when checking my scene in video mode on camera. However, I shot a scene 2 days ago with my actress wearing a red blouse, shot in prores film. The scene was lit 5600k and I set my WB accordingly. However, in resolve I noticed my reds are orange, regardless of the rec709 lut added or even when grading from BMD film. I also used a range of kodak and fuji luts to test and the same was happening. I also took the footage into Premiere, used colorista II and still came up with the same results. Obviously I can key and mask her blouse and change the color to where I need but that extra step shouldn't be necessary if I just want the reds to be red. Is anyone else having this issue in prores film?

I know this thread is mainly about the rec 709 being baked into camera, where the "anomalies" of the reds and oranges are showing up, I first noticed them too when checking my scene in video mode on camera. However, I shot a scene 2 days ago with my actress wearing a red blouse, shot in prores film. The scene was lit 5600k and I set my WB accordingly. However, in resolve I noticed my reds are orange, regardless of the rec709 lut added or even when grading from BMD film. I also used a range of kodak and fuji luts to test and the same was happening. I also took the footage into Premiere, used colorista II and still came up with the same results. Obviously I can key and mask her blouse and change the color to where I need but that extra step shouldn't be necessary if I just want the reds to be red. Is anyone else having this issue in prores film?

Could this be a Prores glitch of some kind. Have you tried shooting in DnxHD? Just a thought, it may be a stupid one.

Cheers,
Milen

I know this thread is mainly about the rec 709 being baked into camera, where the "anomalies" of the reds and oranges are showing up, I first noticed them too when checking my scene in video mode on camera. However, I shot a scene 2 days ago with my actress wearing a red blouse, shot in prores film. The scene was lit 5600k and I set my WB accordingly. However, in resolve I noticed my reds are orange, regardless of the rec709 lut added or even when grading from BMD film. I also used a range of kodak and fuji luts to test and the same was happening. I also took the footage into Premiere, used colorista II and still came up with the same results. Obviously I can key and mask her blouse and change the color to where I need but that extra step shouldn't be necessary if I just want the reds to be red. Is anyone else having this issue in prores film?

Could this be a Prores glitch of some kind. Have you tried shooting in DnxHD? Just a thought, it may be a stupid one.

Cheers,
Milen

My BMCC show the problem both in ProRes and DnxHD. If we have to mask everything red and orange in every scene each time, the workflow will be too slow. I hope it is a firmware issue that will be fixed as soon as possible. I'm still waiting an official communication back from BMD support team. I have given them the samples they requested. I really don't want this to be a lemon.

My BMCC show the problem both in ProRes and DnxHD. If we have to mask everything red and orange in every scene each time, the workflow will be too slow. I hope it is a firmware issue that will be fixed as soon as possible. I'm still waiting an official communication back from BMD support team. I have given them the samples they requested. I really don't want this to be a lemon.

Please let us know what you hear.. Hopefully once all the dust settles from NAB this will be addressed.

Cheers!

[

My BMCC show the problem both in ProRes and DnxHD. If we have to mask everything red and orange in every scene each time, the workflow will be too slow.

Why don't you just do a quick hue vs hue correction? Does the same without masking.
You could even make a LUT out of that and just throw it at your whole timeline.

Here's a quick test video that I made, partly out of curiosity of the issues raised in this thread: .

brilliantimage: is the color shift that you are seeing worse that what is shown in this video? If so, I guess the issue is camera-specific.

I know this thread is mainly about the rec 709 being baked into camera, where the "anomalies" of the reds and oranges are showing up, I first noticed them too when checking my scene in video mode on camera. However, I shot a scene 2 days ago with my actress wearing a red blouse, shot in prores film. The scene was lit 5600k and I set my WB accordingly. However, in resolve I noticed my reds are orange, regardless of the rec709 lut added or even when grading from BMD film. I also used a range of kodak and fuji luts to test and the same was happening. I also took the footage into Premiere, used colorista II and still came up with the same results. Obviously I can key and mask her blouse and change the color to where I need but that extra step shouldn't be necessary if I just want the reds to be red. Is anyone else having this issue in prores film?

+1 my BMCC does the same thing. Even when your shooting on whatever mode and the display is set to video, if you point the camera to something red it appears orange, the purple is bluish and so and so and this not a white balance issue. Clearly there is a problem. BMD can you help us?

Cheers,
Milen

I would like to have a single DNG frame to look into that problem, since I don't have any red problems on the two BMCs I use.

I'll try to post one tomorrow! Frank does the strange red shift appear to you when your are just looking at the display set to video mode, even without recording?

Cheers,
Milen

Hi Frank,
here are some stills. Only LUTs applied, no additional color correction. The first one is from a RAW footage. BMCC lut applied.
The actress jacket is orange, but it's red actually.

BMCC LUT.jpg (858.47 KiB) Viewed 25070 times

Using the lut from HOOK helps, it's a lot more similar to the actual color.

HOOK LUT.jpg (953.81 KiB) Viewed 25070 times

This still is from DnxHD in Video Mode, the three guys are actually wearing red jackets, but BMCC sees them as orange.

GUYS WITH RED JACKETS.jpg (635.02 KiB) Viewed 25070 times

I'm not an expert like you Frank, so I don't understand quite well as you color science and color correction, but I can clearly see that something is not right. My guess is that the lut needs tweaking.
What do you think?
Thanks for the help, man!

Cheers,
Milen

Using the lut from HOOK helps, it's a lot more similar to the actual color.

HOOK LUT.jpg

What monitor are you using to view your footage? On the iPad, which has pretty decent colour, the raw image with Captain Hook's LUT applied looks like an acceptable red. Certainly the DNxHD Video is solidly orange.

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Using the lut from HOOK helps, it's a lot more similar to the actual color.

HOOK LUT.jpg

What monitor are you using to view your footage? On the iPad, which has pretty decent colour, the raw image with Captain Hook's LUT applied looks like an acceptable red. Certainly the DNxHD Video is solidly orange.

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Hi Rick,
yes that's my point, I think there is something wrong with the BMCC LUT, and the one that's applied in camera. I am viewing the footage on my Lenovo W520, which has an fairly nice IPS screen, that's been recently hardware calibrated. Have you tried pointing the camera to something red.Even on the BMCC display it shows orange, while most of the other colors remain consistent to their true nature.

Cheers,
Milen

Here is a still that's been rendered out using ACES color space in Resolve. A lot closer to the actual color of the jacket. Have you noticed that the BMCC LUT is a lot more greenish, it gives a cool look, but in my opinion it's not very accurate! For those of you stuck with lemon red, this might be a solution.

ACES COLOR SPACE_1.103.3.png.Still001.jpg (870.8 KiB) Viewed 25034 times

Cheers,

Milen