Zeiss CP.2 VS CP.3

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Emilian Dechev

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Zeiss CP.2 VS CP.3

PostFri Sep 22, 2017 4:23 am

Anyone has info or experience about the new Zeiss CP.3 and if the quality is better or worse, than the CP.2 ?

I was looking for a CP.2 set, when I discovered the CP.3, which are supposedly better in quality and lighter, thus more convenient for gimbal work. Sadly, I stumbled upon a reduser topic, in which some OPs discussed, that the CP.3 has inferior optical quality compared to CP.2... A technician at CVP also confirmed that finding.

So any info on the matter will be appreciated :)

Reduser topic:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread ... ost1739222
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rick.lang

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Re: Zeiss CP.2 VS CP.3

PostFri Sep 22, 2017 4:20 pm

Why would Zeiss make the CP.3 optically inferior to the CP.2? Is that “fake news?” The CP.2 are known to suffer from chromatic aberration, but I thought that was controlled better with the new CP.3.


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Emilian Dechev

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Re: Zeiss CP.2 VS CP.3

PostFri Sep 22, 2017 5:59 pm

I cant believe it either! Here is what the tech guy from CVP answered, when I inquired about that disturbing forum topic on reduser:

Myself:

Hi ***, I am really interested in these lens, but I have concerns, because of the negative review, as seen here:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread ... ost1739222

They talk about bad chromatic aberrations, and overall poor performance of the lens at t-stops lower than 4...

Maybe that is an isolated case, since the optics of the CP.3 should be the same as in the CP.2.
Do you have info on any reviews or field tests?


Tech guy at CVP:

I have asked my tech people and lens specialist and they agree with the review you have sent. They have already tested them and have a similar opinion. It has been advised the *** Primes might be better although we have not tested them yet.
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rick.lang

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Re: Zeiss CP.2 VS CP.3

PostFri Sep 22, 2017 6:53 pm

In that REDuser thread, someone was going to do a careful test and report back the next day. That result is never posted! Why?


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Emilian Dechev

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Re: Zeiss CP.2 VS CP.3

PostFri Sep 22, 2017 7:54 pm

I guess I will have to wait some more. I asked CVP to ask Zeiss about the matter. Waiting for update.
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rick.lang

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Re: Zeiss CP.2 VS CP.3

PostSat Sep 23, 2017 12:36 am

The REDuser forum thread mentioned the lenses were perfect when first demonstrated and concludes there are build inconsistencies.


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John Brawley

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Re: Zeiss CP.2 VS CP.3

PostSat Sep 23, 2017 3:59 pm

I own the Zeiss CP2s.

I have the 28, 35, 50, 85, 100 and 135 along with the 50 Macro. (I have the Superspeed versions)

They are a very versatile lens and they have worked with me on almost every job I've done in the last 4 years, alongside Primos, Masterprimes, Superspeeds (the originals) Ultraspeeds and Ultraprimes and Leica summicrons.

They do have CA in certain situations, especially the superspeed versions.

So what ? Most lenses have some CA to *some* degree. I saw some on some Zeiss Master Primes while the sigma ZOOM shooting at the same time HAD LESS in the same situation.

CA is one of those things that is variable. It can be more or less depending on the contrast situation. If you look at the Leica shots from the very first Ursa Mini 4.6K footage that was released you'll notice the Leica Primes have some CA and that was at a decent stop.

I think the best way to evaluate is to test them for yourself in the shooting conditions you're planning to use them in.

The CP's are a budget cine lens though the price for many is still a lot compared to other budget lenses.
The main advantages of them is that they're light (good for Gimbal users) and that they're cheap for the cine features they offer, namely 300 degree focus throw, consistent front size and large sensor coverage and interchangeable mounts.

If you want better optical performance then the SLR Magic APO's are hard to go past for the price for me and very under-rated. They're just much heavier and there's only three lenses in the lineup at the moment with the fourth lens just announced at IBC. They're also designed to be EF / PL mount interchanegable.

There are also Canons, Sigma's, Cinealtas, and Rokinons, but most of those other lenses are considered better or sub par for other reasons too subjective to go into here.

To the original question, I don't believe you get much of a major lift optically from the CP3s. I doubt they're any worse than a CP2. The main thing is the option of lens encoding for metadata and I think they've improved the scaling of the way the focus rings work. A lot of focus pullers HATE the CP2 focus scale because it feels very different to other lenses like the S4s and Primos. This is another reason the SLR Magic's are nice, they pretty much replicated the scaling in a more focus puller friendly way.

These are all kind of tiny operational differences that may, or may not make a difference to you.

One other thing to think about, though no one is yet doing it...

Lens metadata means you can start doing lens corrections in post, which is already very standard in the stills world. That is, once you know what lens is on front, you can start to design post corrections that remove or eliminate common optical flaws and faults automatically. I don't think we're too far away from that say in Resolve. I'm sure you could ALSO do these corrections manually like you can in stills, but most users don't know how to build a lens correction map / profile now so I'm not sure that we'd see many bothering with the manual approach.

jb
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rick.lang

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Zeiss CP.2 VS CP.3

PostSat Sep 23, 2017 8:19 pm

Lens correction is available in Resolve and I think they have the ability for the user to define as well as selectable from a list of supported lenses. I have not used the function since I’m satisfied with what the APO delivers. Well I guess the edges of the frame could use a little help on the 25mm.

Really looking forward to the 32mm which may be on par with the 50mm. Yes, the APO are heavier but with an outside diameter of 95mm they’re physically smaller than the CP.x in that dimension. I suspect there’s more glass inside the all metal housing in the APO so the weight is justified.


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Krishna Pada

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Re: Zeiss CP.2 VS CP.3

PostSun Sep 24, 2017 5:24 am

rick.lang wrote:Really looking forward to the 32mm which may be on par with the 50mm. Yes, the APO are heavier but with an outside diameter of 95mm they’re physically smaller than the CP.x in that dimension. I suspect there’s more glass inside the all metal housing in the APO so the weight is justified.


CP.3 has outside diameter of 95 mm, just like the the UltraPrime lenses. CP.2's outer diameter is 114 mm.
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rick.lang

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Zeiss CP.2 VS CP.3

PostSun Sep 24, 2017 6:09 am

Oh my, I think I failed again to check my facts. Maybe I’ll be traded to the Fake News team!

Thanks, Krishna.


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Krishna Pada

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Re: Zeiss CP.2 VS CP.3

PostMon Sep 25, 2017 4:42 am

rick.lang wrote:Oh my, I think I failed again to check my facts. Maybe I’ll be traded to the Fake News team!

Thanks, Krishna.


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No problem, Sire. Initially I also thought CP.3s would be bulky like their predecesssors. Fortunately they are now the real "compact" primes. :)
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UMP G2, BMD Pocket 6K, Canon R5 C
Zeiss CP.3 15, 25, 50, 85. Zeiss Contax 25, 35, 50, 85, 135.
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rick.lang

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Re: Zeiss CP.2 VS CP.3

PostMon Sep 25, 2017 7:03 pm

You’re too kind, Krishna. Nice to see the CP.3 following the 95mm OD which the SLR Magic has supported for their APO primes from day one. Lighter and smaller certainly has its benefits.


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Denny Smith

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Re: Zeiss CP.2 VS CP.3

PostSun Oct 01, 2017 5:03 pm

Seems like the CP3s are arehoude of the CP2s with a few minor tweaks. The biggest being the reduced front ring size. If you look at the CP2s, the front has a large blank ring around the feint lens element, and most did not need to be that large. I think 114mm worked better in large cameras, and the additional diameter allowed the longer focus throw. The new CP3s look like a beter option over the CP2s, the 114mm diameter, kept me from considering them previously.
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Tommaso Alvisi

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Re: Zeiss CP.2 VS CP.3

PostSun Oct 01, 2017 6:24 pm

Actually for 4x4 and 4x5.65 filters I find 110mm (Cooke) and 114mm (Zeiss, Canon, Angenieux, Fujinon) the perfect OD for cine lenses. 95mm was only used by S16 zooms and UP...I don't like it at all...my 2c
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Denny Smith

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Re: Zeiss CP.2 VS CP.3

PostSun Oct 01, 2017 11:29 pm

Agreed, but for smaller cameras like the UM, they work great. For me, I shoot S16, so 95mm is perfect.
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rick.lang

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Re: Zeiss CP.2 VS CP.3

PostMon Oct 02, 2017 2:21 am

I’m with Denny. I appreciate what can be done with the larger lenses like my Fujinon or the Xeens that are T1.5, but I’m happy with the smaller OD of the APO T2.1.


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