Blackmagic Forum

Hi Guys,
I've finally got my BMCC and I've done my first tests with the beast. Impressive! I've noticed that if you record something in 2.5 RAW and than you record compressed footage dnxhd or proress when you press the playback button the raw file disappears. You have to go back to the rec menu, switch to 2.5 raw and than it's there, but this time only the raw files is available for playback. Is this the correct logic? I find this a little bit confusing, especially when there is no indication of your files during the playback (except the timecode). What do you think about the on camera playback? How do you manage? What should be fixed in the next firmware update?

I think it should have been done properly before producing this camera to the public. Full playback and file management (review, delete) should have been incorporated to begin with. My 2 friends and myself were excited about this camera but will not buy this camera for this particular reason, well i am not even starting with the battery nonsense.

Milen Mladenov wrote:Hi Guys,
I've finally got my BMCC and I've done my first tests with the beast. Impressive! I've noticed that if you record something in 2.5 RAW and than you record compressed footage dnxhd or proress when you press the playback button the raw file disappears. You have to go back to the rec menu, switch to 2.5 raw and than it's there, but this time only the raw files is available for playback. Is this the correct logic? I find this a little bit confusing, especially when there is no indication of your files during the playback (except the timecode). What do you think about the on camera playback? How do you manage? What should be fixed in the next firmware update?

The behaviour you are seeing is the current state of the art so at least it is not a bug. I assume the thinking was most people are going to use one mode at a time for a shoot.

Rick Lang
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masterok wrote:I think it should have been done properly before producing this camera to the public. Full playback and file management (review, delete) should have been incorporated to begin with. My 2 friends and myself were excited about this camera but will not buy this camera for this particular reason, well i am not even starting with the battery nonsense.

Wow this is why you won't buy one. Reminds me of shooting different frame rates on the HVX. It plays back only the files recorded at the rate you had the camera set to. No one seemed to mind. And I love having a backup battery onboard for hand held shots. Lets me leave the external batteries when I need a light rig. I'd love to have small onboard battery on a Red or any of the Varicams I've used in the past.

thekreative wrote:
Wow this is why you won't buy one. Reminds me of shooting different frame rates on the HVX. It plays back only the files recorded at the rate you had the camera set to. No one seemed to mind. And I love having a backup battery onboard for hand held shots. Lets me leave the external batteries when I need a light rig. I'd love to have small onboard battery on a Red or any of the Varicams I've used in the past.

Well in past people used leaves to wipe their @$s and no one seemed to mind. We are in progress era now so considering themselves as Apple and using internal battery is nonsense, to say the least. There is no excuse not to create slot for a removable battery. And yes this is one of the reasons we are not buying this camera. We shoot alot of travel, and these 2 features just create more headache for us then the benefit we will get from this camera.

The picture this camera provides is amazing, thats why I want this camera! Before this camera, I had the Canon 5D Mark II (still have it tho). Not ideal for filming, but you can work around all this problems.
All I want is to make this quality picture, and this camera is doing that. Yes, there is alot what would be nice to improve. Im happy BlackMagic already provides this camera, and did not wait untill everything is 100% perfect, that will take alot of time. In that time there will be other camera's with a low price, but high quality. Now for under 2500,- euro's I can buy a machine which provides me this picture!

With my budget I was choosing between the FS700 and the BMCC. I'm happy I got the BMCC (is my taste, and the shoots I'm doing the BMCC is better). The FS700 is easier to use, and more complete, but I love the picture of the BMCC, and the possibilities the RAW is giving me. And besides, the Davinci Resolve 9 is amazing!!

masterok wrote:

thekreative wrote:
Wow this is why you won't buy one. Reminds me of shooting different frame rates on the HVX. It plays back only the files recorded at the rate you had the camera set to. No one seemed to mind. And I love having a backup battery onboard for hand held shots. Lets me leave the external batteries when I need a light rig. I'd love to have small onboard battery on a Red or any of the Varicams I've used in the past.

Well in past people used leaves to wipe their @$s and no one seemed to mind. We are in progress era now so considering themselves as Apple and using internal battery is nonsense, to say the least. There is no excuse not to create slot for a removable battery. And yes this is one of the reasons we are not buying this camera. We shoot alot of travel, and these 2 features just create more headache for us then the benefit we will get from this camera.

No reasons at all for a non-removable battery apart from it makes it cheaper to manufacture and removes a structural weakness. Now whether they are good reasons or even good enough reasons is a matter of opinion.

What are you shooting on that the battery issue and the inability to play back more than one file type at a time outweigh the massive image boost you'll get over everything south of the RED Scarlet/C300 money?

masterok wrote:
Well in past people used leaves to wipe their @$s and no one seemed to mind. We are in progress era now

Funny you say that. Personally I wish that RED, ARRI and SONY would be as progressive as BMD and give me an buffer battery, on top of their removable v-mount bricks - I find buffer batteries pretty progressive.
I can strip down the whole rig and go into places and situations, I could not go with the brick on top.

masterok wrote:And yes this is one of the reasons we are not buying this camera. We shoot alot of travel, and these 2 features just create more headache for us then the benefit we will get from this camera.

And yeah, playback of different formats in camera is a no brainer, with startup times at 3 seconds.
But I guess you will be happier with a different camera - the BMC is not for everyone.

I wonder why you even care to be on this forum, if you have decided not to buy it.

Milen Mladenov wrote:Hi Guys,
I've finally got my BMCC and I've done my first tests with the beast. Impressive! I've noticed that if you record something in 2.5 RAW and than you record compressed footage dnxhd or proress when you press the playback button the raw file disappears. You have to go back to the rec menu, switch to 2.5 raw and than it's there, but this time only the raw files is available for playback. Is this the correct logic?

The camera will only playback files from the disk that match the codec and frame rate that the camera is currently set to.

If you want to playback those files you need to switch the camera to the setting that match. It only takes a couple of seconds.

jb

masterok wrote:Well in past people used leaves to wipe their @$s and no one seemed to mind. We are in progress era now so considering themselves as Apple and using internal battery is nonsense, to say the least. There is no excuse not to create slot for a removable battery. And yes this is one of the reasons we are not buying this camera. We shoot alot of travel, and these 2 features just create more headache for us then the benefit we will get from this camera.

Im not sure why you are so angry. Unless you are shooting on a prosumer camcorder, you're going to have an external battery brick mounted on your camera anyway. I also don't see what shooting travel has to do with the inability to watch back mixed codecs.

Why are you in this forum anyway if you're so upset with the BMCC?



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nonlinearedits wrote:Im not sure why you are so angry. Unless you are shooting on a prosumer camcorder, you're going to have an external battery brick mounted on your camera anyway. I also don't see what shooting travel has to do with the inability to watch back mixed codecs.

I am not angry at all. The reason I browse this forum from time to time is to see news for firmware ugrades ad possible solutions for existing problems. reason i actually read this thread. When time comes and the benefits outweight the negative sides of this camera, I will surely purchase one.

When we travel, we dont have access to computers for awhile. So I would like to at least a simple delete clip in camera function that will allow to save space on SSD. It is very important. Since when watching a tiger or a bear for example, he might sit and not do anything for 15 minutes. We stop recording and start again. So it is important to be able to delete those 15 minutes.

Next thing is batteries, we shoot mark 3 at the moment and have more then dozen batteries, which charge quickly and last awhile. They dont make camera bulky nor heavier, nor do they create any inconvenience. Currently, unfortunately i cant find a proper solution for BMCC, apart from those bricks as you mentioned, that are a size of half the camera. Would you mind having this camera 1 inch higher and have a nice high capacity battery in there? i dont think so. Technology is there, just no desire from the company. This is what progress is not.

And whats is the point to compare to RED or Alexa? those cameras provide 4k raw and 60fps and are designed for different fields. BMD wants to tackle DSLR market, then they should take responsibility and fix their f@#k ups.

And whats is the point to compare to RED or Alexa? those cameras provide 4k raw and 60fps and are designed for different fields. BMD wants to tackle DSLR market, then they should take responsibility and fix their f@#k ups.

I guess that is where the confusion comes from... the BMCC does NOT tackle the DSLR market... it tries to be the promise RED made a while back of delivering a CINEMA camera at $3000...

If you treat it like a DSLR, you will probably NEVER find it satisfactory...

masterok wrote:... BMD wants to tackle DSLR market, then they should take responsibility and fix their f@#k ups.

It's not called the "Blackmagic Cinema Camera" by accident. It's best used for "cinema"-style shooting, not so much wildlife documentary work.

Although the BMCC has a superficially similar DSLR-like form factor, no one familiar with DSLRs would confuse the BMCC or any other cinema camera for one.

Although BMD has a history of continuously improving their products, there's no guarantee they'll offer firmware updates "forever" on a particular product. For example, they may release a new camera someday with new features instead of adding them to the original model. I agree it doesn't hurt to ask for features to be added to an existing product (I do it too!), but typically little comes of it.

It's best to select a camera for its strong points, and if possible you may need to workaround aspects of its design that don't ideally suit your purpose. But there's no one camera ideally suited for all purposes, or even most purposes. Never has been, never will be.

It's entirely possible the BMCC isn't a good fit for your shooting style, and a different camera may be a better fit for you.

masterok wrote:
When we travel, we dont have access to computers for awhile. So I would like to at least a simple delete clip in camera function that will allow to save space on SSD. It is very important. Since when watching a tiger or a bear for example, he might sit and not do anything for 15 minutes. We stop recording and start again. So it is important to be able to delete those 15 minutes.

I dont know why youd use a cinema camera to record 15 minute takes of bears or tigers, especially when you know the data rates this camera pumps out and its recording medium.

Nick Vega wrote:I dont know why youd use a cinema camera to record 15 minute takes of bears or tigers, especially when you know the data rates this camera pumps out and its recording medium.

Why? Was this camera supposed to be used only in studio to record p@rn? I dont understand whats wrong with recording ProRes in SSD? 15 minutes was an example, most shots are just 2-3 minutes, but again when in anticipation of action much longer shots are taken and need to be deleted.

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:It's not called the "Blackmagic Cinema Camera" by accident. It's best used for "cinema"-style shooting, not so much wildlife documentary work.

Why are you telling me how to use the camera? Its cinema camera only by name to make more money. It still a portable recording device, thus it is used as such. Go Pro shoots 4K Raw, so you will tell people to use it in studio as well? Email them and advice to name it GoPro Cinema Camera. If you name peace of glass - a diamond, its still a piece of glass.

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:Although the BMCC has a superficially similar DSLR-like form factor, no one familiar with DSLRs would confuse the BMCC or any other cinema camera for one.

Again, BMD is trying to tap into DSLR videographers market. If I have 20K and I need a real Cinema camera will I buy BMCC? Of course not. Wouldnt even think of it. There are better cameras. On the other hand if you thinking to purchase Mark3 for video, that's what market BMD is targeting. And the last Timelapse feature is sure for hollywood productions.

remopini wrote:If you treat it like a DSLR, you will probably NEVER find it satisfactory...

I dont treat it like DSLR. All I am trying to prove is that a portable recording device should have a DELETE clip function and removable battery.

masterok wrote: And the last Timelapse feature is sure for hollywood productions.

lmao!

masterok wrote:If I have 20K and I need a real Cinema camera will I buy BMCC? Of course not. Wouldnt even think of it.

Actually, that's pretty much what I've done. Instead of dropping 20K on a camera that can't come close to matching the BMCC’s 12-bit RAW image quality, I'm gearing up the BMCC with additional lenses, and beefing up my Mac to be a killer DaVinci machine with a 24TB RAID array. There's no way I'd have the range of capabilities I have now if I'd just squandered 20K on a camera alone.

Instead of complaining about not being able to delete a shot from the camera, why not just invest in a few more SSDs? You've got that $17,000 rattling around in your pocket... use it.

Randy Walters wrote:Actually, that's pretty much what I've done. Instead of dropping 20K on a camera that can't come close to matching the BMCC’s 12-bit RAW image quality, I'm gearing up the BMCC with additional lenses, and beefing up my Mac to be a killer DaVinci machine with a 24TB RAID array. There's no way I'd have the range of capabilities I have now if I'd just squandered 20K on a camera alone.

Instead of complaining about not being able to delete a shot from the camera, why not just invest in a few more SSDs? You've got that $17,000 rattling around in your pocket... use it.

I agree with you and you probably made a right choice for your specific use. I am not getting into price points and what camera is better.

I am just wondering why was it so hard to implement these 2 basic features into the camera.