Blackmagic Forum

Scarlet vs. BMC - Cineglass vs. Samjang

Here is a little teaser - watch this space

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... Aj0KYfNL8M

I hope you plan on providing full rez downloads (motion or stills) otherwise..meh
(no disrespect intended)

Nice

Mmm, waiting for it!

More videos please.

Frank:

Where do you store that case full of glass

I'm comin' to get get it!!!!

Look forward to your test videos...

Hey Frank Thanks for these! Can't wait for your results. It's Samyang isn't it though?

Sorry, Samyang being a Korean company, and me being Korean, samjang is a marinade/condiment.

YES!! We're cheering for this test!! You're our man, Frank! This is a real service, especially the glass comparisons. Keep us posted. We ride beside you in spirit.

Theyre decent, but no competition for cinema lenses (speaking from pure experience).

Scarlet vs BMCC? cmon Frank, its 2013 already

innerspark wrote: samjang is a marinade/condiment.

Oh, you are right. So the proof is in the marinade

Theodore Prentice wrote:[

Scarlet vs BMCC? cmon Frank, its 2013 already

Yeah, the announcement yesterday rendered about 50% of our shootout a bit obsolete.
But I guess it be interesting for the 2.5k owners anyway.

Hey Frank, I'm still going to be a 2.5k owner regardless, and still appreciate the efforts!

Thanks again!

innerspark wrote:still appreciate the efforts!

Ditto that Frank, you're a huge asset to this place. Thank you.

Speaking of 2013, Im looking forward testing an Odyssey 7Q on our FS-700...240 fps @ 2k, lordy (and of course unleashing that 4k!)

Little sneak preview, regarding skin tones.

Scarlet @4k with Zeiss 35mm SuperSpeed @ f4 - RED Gamma2, Debayer: Premium full
BMC @ 2.5k (DNG) with Samyang 35mm @ f4 - BMD to 709 LUT

Both graded in Resolve and rendered out at 1920x1080


Daylight from Window in the back and 3 Ikan LED lights.



DICLAIMER: Scarlet is slightly out of focus here - it's not that bad
This one was all about skin tone and not sharpness of the glass.

is it wrong to say I like the Samyang more?

kennysule wrote:is it wrong to say I like the Samyang more?

I was thinking the same. Not just that... it's Scarlet vs. BMCC and Zeiss vs. Samyang.
Who would have thought... although the Samyang has quite a bit of Chromatic Aberration.

Can't wait for the full review

I've never seen a Zeiss image look so warm!

BMC/Samyang shows teeth better without a doubt.

Looks great Frank, But of many tests I have seen the Zeiss SuperSpeeds are not that sharp,
Now before I get any grief, Just do your own research, I own mostly Zeiss lenses and I have found
my ZE's and ZF's to be just as sharp as the superspeeds, if not sharper on certain cameras,
This may be on purpose??, since to much sharpness can be a problem,
Also Zeiss SuperSpeeds breath, that to me makes them to expensive for what they are,
Zeiss Ulta Prime lenses another story, for another day.

My post has nothing to with Franks skin tone test, I'm Just speaking about Zeiss lenses, Cost vs Quality.

I found the SuperSpeeds are a bit sharper and contrastier - but to be honest, I expected much more difference.
But as I said, this session was just about skin tones.
We took the worst possible light ( cheapish LED) here on propose , to show what you get in a worst case scenario.

Frank Glencairn wrote:I found the SuperSpeeds are a bit sharper and contrastier - but to be honest, I expected much more difference.
But as I said, this session was just about skin tones.
We took the worst possible light ( cheapish LED) here on propose , to show what you get in a worst case scenario.

I think the skin tones look great (Aside from the green shift in the scarlet) from both cameras (UPDATE: Actually the BMCC looks better), But I'm never going to buy the scarlet,
I may get an Epic-X...Maybe??... Someday... when Jim pulls his head out of his..Oh never mind

With that said, Awesome skin tones from the BMCC, and I could not ask for anything more.

Thank you Frank for doing the test, Look forward to the rest of it.

Cheers

DaleCampbellFilms wrote:BMC/Samyang shows teeth better without a doubt.

That's Funny since his mouth is closed in the SAM sample

By the way Ikan has a new 500 LED with "0" color shift for $499, it was stated in one of the many NAB 2013 Videos on Vimeo.

If I find it again I'll post the link

Frank Don't get discouraged By Penile comments, Send us the goods, We need these kinds of tests.

Thank You Frank for all your contributions,
Now lets see the Finally!

Darryl Gregory wrote:Frank Don't get discouraged By Penile comments, Send us the goods, We need these kinds of tests.

Thank You Frank for all your contributions,
Now lets see the Finally!

+1
I'm also interested to see how the Samyangs hold up to pixel peeping.

I wonder what Cineglass would look on BMC.

Any Update ?

Super keen for results, looks like a fun experiment.

Still nothing up?

Guys got to make a living. He'll get them up and they'll be in incredible detail.

Part 1 is online: http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/201 ... ng-part-1/

Frank Glencairn wrote:Part 1 is online: http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/201 ... ng-part-1/

The samples I saw were all labelled as using the Zeiss lenses on both cameras. If the focus was correct on the Scarlett and the BMCC, what an amazing difference in the softness from the low pass filter. I am no expert but I would work hard to avoid and reduce moiré to keep the sharpness of the BMCC.

Rick Lang
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Yeah, the first part was all about the same Zeiss lenses on both cameras.
The difference was quite a surprise for us too. And mind that the Scarlet was running at 4k.

How did you get a similar field of view if you were shooting 4K on the Scarlet?

It looked like the cameras were right next to each other too

look forward to the budget lens comparisons. cheers.

Frank, Could you Pl uprez a BMCC frame to match the 4K Scarlet frame for comparison.

Part 2 is online: http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/201 ... ng-part-2/

Frank Glencairn wrote:Part 2 is online: http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/201 ... ng-part-2/

Thanks once again, Frank. The colour and contrast of the Zeiss look better, but the 35mm and 85mm Samyang certainly look very good in terms of sharpness. Would be even better if Samyang released a second version of the 24mm lens with a 50mm lens to match the performance of the 35mm and 85mm. Maybe one day...

Rick Lang
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Thank you for the comparison – Samyang/Rokinon lenses are next on my to buy list! I just wish they were called Rokinon in the UK

Christian Schmeer wrote:Thank you for the comparison – Samyang/Rokinon lenses are next on my to buy list! I just wish they were called Rokinon in the UK

Samyang is the actual brand. Rokinon/Bower are owned by Samyang and seems to only be territories that justify the name change.

Hi Frank: Thanks for the very helpful review. Cheers!

-

Which of the Samyang lenses would you recommend as a first purchase (of the Samyang range) for the BMCC?

Christian Schmeer wrote:Which of the Samyang lenses would you recommend as a first purchase (of the Samyang range) for the BMCC?

I like all the Samyang lenses I have had (14mm, 35mm and 85mm).
It really just depends on what focal lenghts you need.

Because of the sensor on the BMCC, 14mm equals a 30mm lens on a fullframe sensor, and 35mm equals 80mm. These two focal lengths are very useful.

If you also get the 85mm you will have what equals almost a 200mm on fullframe. For me, that's a litte too narrow, but could for sure be a great lens on the BMCC if you need it.

Hi Frank. Thanks for the comparison.

iverha wrote:

Christian Schmeer wrote:Which of the Samyang lenses would you recommend as a first purchase (of the Samyang range) for the BMCC?

I like all the Samyang lenses I have had (14mm, 35mm and 85mm).
It really just depends on what focal lenghts you need.

Because of the sensor on the BMCC, 14mm equals a 30mm lens on a fullframe sensor, and 35mm equals 80mm. These two focal lengths are very useful.

If you also get the 85mm you will have what equals almost a 200mm on fullframe. For me, that's a litte too narrow, but could for sure be a great lens on the BMCC if you need it.

I'm wondering which one of the 14mm, 24mm and 35mm Samyang Cine lenses the sharpest is?

Christian Schmeer wrote:

iverha wrote:

Christian Schmeer wrote:Which of the Samyang lenses would you recommend as a first purchase (of the Samyang range) for the BMCC?

I like all the Samyang lenses I have had (14mm, 35mm and 85mm).
It really just depends on what focal lenghts you need.

Because of the sensor on the BMCC, 14mm equals a 30mm lens on a fullframe sensor, and 35mm equals 80mm. These two focal lengths are very useful.

If you also get the 85mm you will have what equals almost a 200mm on fullframe. For me, that's a litte too narrow, but could for sure be a great lens on the BMCC if you need it.

I'm wondering which one of the 14mm, 24mm and 35mm Samyang Cine lenses the sharpest is?

The 35mm is the sharpest against test charts according to Photozone. In Frank's second report, the image from the 85mm looks much sharper but something else must be coming into play.

Rick Lang
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rick.lang wrote:
The 35mm is the sharpest.

Rick Lang
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Source? I haven't seen any tests online of the cine series, which I know are supposed to be optically the same as the non-cine series, but I haven't see that many of those either.

Christian Schmeer wrote:

iverha wrote:

Christian Schmeer wrote:Which of the Samyang lenses would you recommend as a first purchase (of the Samyang range) for the BMCC?

I like all the Samyang lenses I have had (14mm, 35mm and 85mm).
It really just depends on what focal lenghts you need.

Because of the sensor on the BMCC, 14mm equals a 30mm lens on a fullframe sensor, and 35mm equals 80mm. These two focal lengths are very useful.

If you also get the 85mm you will have what equals almost a 200mm on fullframe. For me, that's a litte too narrow, but could for sure be a great lens on the BMCC if you need it.

I'm wondering which one of the 14mm, 24mm and 35mm Samyang Cine lenses the sharpest is?

The 35mm by far... at T 1.5 it's sharper than the 24mm, both being wide open. The 24mm becomes very sharp at T5.6, and the 35mm is all ready sharp at T2.8 onwards to about T11... being the sharpest at T4 and T5.6, while the 24mm is sharpest at T5.6 and T8, and overall is softer than the 35mm. But I like both lenses any way, each in it's own way). The 14mm is soft wide open and becomes as sharp as the 24mm at T4 and T5.6.
(I have the cine versions so they have T stops instead of F stops).
I've heard the 85mm/T1.5 is sharp like the 35mm, but I don't have that so I don't know except what the test charts show...
Cheers, hope that helps.

You can see test charts here: http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=821&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=4&LensComp=769&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=3

Once again, Frank comes through! Thanks a lot, Frank, for genuine service to the community of shooters, and thanks, Jaime, for the link to the charts.

I got a set of 4 Samyang cine lenses (14, 24, 35 & 85) for use with my BMCC, and I did some preliminary tests with each of them, graded the shots and peeped frames on a good-sized screen, and they looked fine, but I did not do any sort of detailed test. I was mostly just verifying that the lenses were OK. BTW, I got all 4 for under $1900, which is some sort of steal!

When I need the speed, especially, these will come in handy. My view of omitting the 50mm is that since everyone already has a good 50mm, they left it out. Of course, the idea of a set of geared cine lenses is totally valid, and 50mm should be in there, but I am just offering possible justifications for leaving that one out so far.

Thanks again for your fine work. I also appreciate your appraisal in your comments.

DNomer wrote:I got a set of 4 Samyang cine lenses (14, 24, 35 & 85) for use with my BMCC, and I did some preliminary tests with each of them, graded the shots and peeped frames on a good-sized screen, and they looked fine, but I did not do any sort of detailed test. I was mostly just verifying that the lenses were OK.

Can you give an opinion on which is the sharpest of those lenses as Sean would like to know? Thanks.

Rick Lang
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sean mclennan wrote:

rick.lang wrote:
The 35mm is the sharpest.

Rick Lang
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Source? I haven't seen any tests online of the cine series, which I know are supposed to be optically the same as the non-cine series, but I haven't see that many of those either.

Sean, I looked at several video examples of the Samyang and Rokinon ciné lenses and read the results of detailed tests of the stills versions where the optics are virtually identical apparently. Better to see the other comments from people here who own the lenses. I think the 85mm is almost as sharp as the 35mm from what I saw in several YouTube videos.

Rick Lang
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