Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
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Ryan Jones

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostSat Jul 13, 2013 2:03 am

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:JB is teasing "new" BMPCC pocket cam features:

https://twitter.com/brawlster/status/355550178452856832

https://twitter.com/brawlster/status/355550020646346754

He hints that these features may possibly be coming to current cams, too. Stay tuned!

-

Awesome. I'm happy to wait if it's going to be more polished. Looks awesome.
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Ryan Jones

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostSat Jul 13, 2013 2:06 am

Christine Peterson wrote:I know this isn't exactly what you're hoping for since it doesn't have any product updates, but we actually launched an online community a couple days ago: http://www.splicecommunity.com/

If you want your work featured, please submit here: http://www.splicecommunity.com/contact/

That is a great start Christine, and happy to see you're listening to the community. Still think a product blog would be helpful for you guys to sell more product, cross sell other product to BMCC owners, and for your customers to know what's in the work, rather than outsourcing it all to beta testers.
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christiangruner

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostSat Jul 13, 2013 6:02 pm

I'm a bit confused about the crop factor in this cam..

Looking at the sensor size of a normal MFT camera like the OM-D, it's sensor is 17.3 x 13 mm (4:3 ratio)- The Pocket cinema camera has a size of 12.48mm x 7.02mm. So if I shoot wideangle (I care most about the horizontal FOV), the crop factor should only be around 1.4, not the not-very-usable 3x crop factor people have been talking about. Vertical fov has a crop factor of 1.9, so not close to 3x as well.

This makes choosing lenses a lot easier.
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Richard Oakes

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostSat Jul 13, 2013 6:52 pm

wizprod wrote:I'm a bit confused about the crop factor in this cam..

Looking at the sensor size of a normal MFT camera like the OM-D, it's sensor is 17.3 x 13 mm (4:3 ratio)- The Pocket cinema camera has a size of 12.48mm x 7.02mm. So if I shoot wideangle (I care most about the horizontal FOV), the crop factor should only be around 1.4, not the not-very-usable 3x crop factor people have been talking about. Vertical fov has a crop factor of 1.9, so not close to 3x as well.

This makes choosing lenses a lot easier.


It's a 3x crop of a full frame sensor like the 5Dmkii not 3x crop of an MFT
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David Franzo

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostSat Jul 13, 2013 7:38 pm

2.88x to be exact ;)
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Richard Oakes

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostSat Jul 13, 2013 7:49 pm

frnz wrote:2.88x to be exact ;)


Ok smarty pants!
;)
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Lxd

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostMon Jul 15, 2013 1:41 am

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:JB is teasing "new" BMPCC pocket cam features:

https://twitter.com/brawlster/status/355550178452856832

https://twitter.com/brawlster/status/355550020646346754

He hints that these features may possibly be coming to current cams, too. Stay tuned!

-



Can someone summarise what he says? I don't have access to twitter at the moment
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostMon Jul 15, 2013 1:58 am

Lxd wrote:
Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:JB is teasing "new" BMPCC pocket cam features:

https://twitter.com/brawlster/status/355550178452856832

https://twitter.com/brawlster/status/355550020646346754

He hints that these features may possibly be coming to current cams, too. Stay tuned!

-


Can someone summarise what he says? I don't have access to twitter at the moment


The build of the BMPCC pocket cam firmware that JB shows in the photo on twitter includes very basic auto-focus, with a fixed white "target" square in the center of the cam's sensor & display. In the build he shows, the square is not moveable; unknown if that will change in future.

The photo also shows that the cam now displays battery charge remaining in 1% increments (1-100%).

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Lxd

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostMon Jul 15, 2013 2:44 am

Thanks for that. I was hoping he was going to say he was trialling a 1 minute 'burst mode' at 60fps...
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Jace Ross

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostMon Jul 15, 2013 5:16 am

Lxd wrote:Thanks for that. I was hoping he was going to say he was trialling a 1 minute 'burst mode' at 60fps...


Don't hold your breath...
BMPCC, FD Canon 28mm f2.8, Tokina 80-200mm F4, Tamron 70-300mm f4 C Canon J6x12 MFT SLR Magic 17mm T1.6, Sigma 19mm f2.8, Samyang 7.5mm f3.5
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Richard Oakes

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostMon Jul 15, 2013 9:09 am

Blackmagic have stated
For the Pocket Cinema Camera:
- 128 GB card, recording ProRes = approximately 70-80 minutes
- 128 GB card, recording RAW = approximately 30 minutes

At these rates I have worked out that the write speeds of the compressed RAW will be around 70 MB/s.
The only card on the market that I can find that gets anywhere close to these speeds is the Sandisk extreme pro 64Gb at 90 MB/s all other cards do a maximum of around 45 MB/s. this card is only available in 64GB or less capacities. Which concludes that the maximum shooting time/ storage you can get for RAW on the pocket cinema camera is 15 minutes or less. If i am correct, This is a shame!

Will the lossey RAW be available later on for better write speeds?
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Ryan Jones

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostMon Jul 15, 2013 9:30 am

Darkfable wrote:Blackmagic have stated
For the Pocket Cinema Camera:
- 128 GB card, recording ProRes = approximately 70-80 minutes
- 128 GB card, recording RAW = approximately 30 minutes

At these rates I have worked out that the write speeds of the compressed RAW will be around 70 MB/s.
The only card on the market that I can find that gets anywhere close to these speeds is the Sandisk extreme pro 64Gb at 90 MB/s all other cards do a maximum of around 45 MB/s. this card is only available in 64GB or less capacities. Which concludes that the maximum shooting time/ storage you can get for RAW on the pocket cinema camera is 15 minutes or less. If i am correct, This is a shame!

Will the lossey RAW be available later on for better write speeds?

Everything I've read is about the same, but if we've started to see 256GB cards coming out, then no doubt we'll start to see 128GB Extreme Pros soon. You'll just have to mortgage your house to afford them.
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Richard Oakes

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostMon Jul 15, 2013 10:23 am

Ryan Jones wrote:
Darkfable wrote:Blackmagic have stated
For the Pocket Cinema Camera:
- 128 GB card, recording ProRes = approximately 70-80 minutes
- 128 GB card, recording RAW = approximately 30 minutes

At these rates I have worked out that the write speeds of the compressed RAW will be around 70 MB/s.
The only card on the market that I can find that gets anywhere close to these speeds is the Sandisk extreme pro 64Gb at 90 MB/s all other cards do a maximum of around 45 MB/s. this card is only available in 64GB or less capacities. Which concludes that the maximum shooting time/ storage you can get for RAW on the pocket cinema camera is 15 minutes or less. If i am correct, This is a shame!

Will the lossey RAW be available later on for better write speeds?

Everything I've read is about the same, but if we've started to see 256GB cards coming out, then no doubt we'll start to see 128GB Extreme Pros soon. You'll just have to mortgage your house to afford them.


It's scary spending that kind of money on such brittle media tho. I have broken countless SD cards because they are always cheap plastic that bends easily. Spending hundreds of pounds on a single SD card is a real gamble. Why don't they make them out of strong materials like magnesium aloy or something?
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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostMon Jul 15, 2013 10:27 am

Darkfable wrote:Which concludes that the maximum shooting time/ storage you can get for RAW on the pocket cinema camera is 15 minutes or less.


Relax, people! Faster, larger and cheaper cards will be coming out in due time, perhaps even before you are holding your new pocket cam in your hands. We have seen this fast moving process for years.

As for right now, if you are filming a long interview or a concert or wedding ceremony, which has to be done continuously, you can use ProRes HQ, which is an excellent codec and much better than anything that was available up until now, in Camcorders which are many times more expensive. ProRes data rate might even be small enough for a current speed 128GB card, giving you 70 - 80 minutes of continuous recording time, or more than 2 hours on the soon to be expected 256GB cards. But I cannot confirm that until the camera is out. We have to wait for the tests.

And when doing cinematic work at the highest possible quality, in lossless RAW: Is anybody here shooting carefully planned single clips, that are longer than 15 minutes? Maybe that's just me, but mine are usually much, much shorter. So when the card is almost full, just take it out, put in a new one within seconds, and start offloading the first card to a simple RAID for security, which is recommended anyhow before leaving a set and letting you talent go home. All the while you can continue shooting on a second card, which costs you under $100 right now, with prices falling. Or do it all on one card only and take a break in the meantime. I mean, you can't have it all, shoot the best possible image, and expect it all free of charge. I don't have a problem with that.

And in a very few other cases that I can think of, this camera may not be the very best one for you. You may need to get the larger Cinema Camera and record on SSD.
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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostMon Jul 15, 2013 12:01 pm

Darkfable wrote:Blackmagic have stated
For the Pocket Cinema Camera:
- 128 GB card, recording ProRes = approximately 70-80 minutes
- 128 GB card, recording RAW = approximately 30 minutes

At these rates I have worked out that the write speeds of the compressed RAW will be around 70 MB/s.
The only card on the market that I can find that gets anywhere close to these speeds is the Sandisk extreme pro 64Gb at 90 MB/s all other cards do a maximum of around 45 MB/s. this card is only available in 64GB or less capacities. Which concludes that the maximum shooting time/ storage you can get for RAW on the pocket cinema camera is 15 minutes or less. If i am correct, This is a shame!

Will the lossey RAW be available later on for better write speeds?



Is that a RED in your profile pic? then you will know how expensive media is, way more than these small cards, thats before you even start needing modules to make them work. lets not look a gift horse in the mouth. This is a cinema camera, if people get their heads around that then people will better understand these cameras. At this point the Pocket Camera is a revolution, a first of its kind in this form factor. It can't in theory be compared to anything else.

http://www.red.com/store/media
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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostMon Jul 15, 2013 12:04 pm

Cinehaus wrote:or more than 2 hours on the soon to be expected 256GB cards


... just searched the web, and I see that even today there already is a 256GB SDXC UHS-I card with 90MB/s available for purchase from a major brand, and it is in stock. I won't be mentioning the company right now because it doesn't matter. There will be other manufacturers following, and prices will be falling. But nobody forces you to buy one of these ultra large cards, at a premium price, while they are still brand new, unless you really think that you need to have one.
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Richard Oakes

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostMon Jul 15, 2013 1:05 pm

Cinehaus wrote:
Cinehaus wrote:or more than 2 hours on the soon to be expected 256GB cards


... just searched the web, and I see that even today there already is a 256GB SDXC UHS-I card with 90MB/s available for purchase from a major brand, and it is in stock. I won't be mentioning the company right now because it doesn't matter. There will be other manufacturers following, and prices will be falling. But nobody forces you to buy one of these ultra large cards, at a premium price, while they are still brand new, unless you really think that you need to have one.


Be careful, I just looked up those specs, the card only reads at 90MB/s it writes at 45/mbs so it is well under the 70MB/s required for RAW capture!
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simonspear

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostMon Jul 15, 2013 1:35 pm

Darkfable wrote:Just been on the phone to CVP the UK Blackmagic resellers who said that they still have no idea when the cameras are going to ship and that Blackmagic have been very sheepish with their answers. They said that if Blackmagic do fulfil their promise of shipping in July that they don't expect it to be much more than 1 here and there. I really do hope they have learned their lesson this time, as not shipping in mass quantities in July will be seriously damaging to the companies already damaged reputation. Lets hope!


I wasn't hopeful of getting my Pocket and 4K camera any time soon, but as I have a couple of shoots coming up that I could use them on I thought I'd ring CVP for an update. They basically said the same as they told you - no new info from Blackmagic on shipping dates. They did also add that based on the shipping speed that they received the original BMCC (even when in full production) that it could take them 'many months' to supply their pre-orders (by my calculation on the info they gave me it could easily be over 6 months). I think my original speculation that I wont receive mine until 2014 could pretty close to reality!
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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostMon Jul 15, 2013 2:15 pm

Cinehaus wrote:Be careful, I just looked up those specs, the card only reads at 90MB/s it writes at 45/mbs so it is well under the 70MB/s required for RAW capture!


That is true, but it is likely that this card will be fast enough for shooting ProRes codec, and that would give you comfortably over 2 hours of continuous recording time in excellent quality (admittedly not the ultimate quality imaginable which is RAW - but still at super high quality in comparison to most everybody else with a cam standing near you), should you ever feel a need to do such thing, using a small pocket cam.

There are always compromises to be made, in regards to quality vs. file size. I believe that the release of next generation SD cards is just around the corner, and as usual, the new cards will provide better speed, greater size, or both, and all that at lower prices. I am sure that the engineers at Blackmagic Design can't wait to see them sooner rather than later, as much as we would, or even more so.

At this point in time, however, it is true that shooting RAW will be limited to using the existing fast SD cards at their current maximum size. You can always record to external devices, since you will need a rig with large battery or another power source anyway, when you have to film for hours and hours at a time. And if I'm not mistaken, there is a fairly inexpensive product for recording uncompressed HD or ProRes format onto SSD from HDMI output available for purchase right here on this Blackmagic website. The question remains, whether the pocket cam is always the best choice for each and every job. If very long continuous recording time is an issue for you, on many of the jobs that you do regularly, it may not be.
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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostMon Jul 15, 2013 3:14 pm

All in all the Pocket CC is going to be a "ProRes Camera" for most shootings (then battery life and storage capacity are a good match), with the added benefit of the occasional raw shooting when needed.
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Panamatom

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostMon Jul 15, 2013 4:22 pm

Is this footage from the pocket camera?

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostMon Jul 15, 2013 6:43 pm

Unlikely. How should someone totally unknown suddenly have access to the Pocket CC out of the blue? Also there's no exceptional dynamic range in this video, and it's only available in 720p - this could have been done on any number of cameras.

Probably just someone who wants to draw attention. Probably yourself.
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Stuart Dye

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 16, 2013 2:31 am

hi all, well erm its july now......and errm....Going to sell my Canon 7D any day now....
I want to use my Cinemascope lenses with a solid Prores codec....
Ive got a squeaky clean Carl Zeiss Anamorphic lens im itching to use....
and if Blackmagic are listening....FOR GOD SAKE RELEASE THE FREEKIN POCKET CAMERA !
Is there like 2 guys sitting in a dark room assembling Pocket cameras?
or the BM staff building 1 camera during a *** break?
Just hit ONE release date on time....Please....
im down on my knees.......
I'll book a week off work and help you for NO pay......
I'll make the tea's....and carry boxes...even sweep the floor !!!
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Ryan Jones

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 16, 2013 4:02 am

Stuart Dye wrote:hi all, well erm its july now......and errm....Going to sell my Canon 7D any day now....
I want to use my Cinemascope lenses with a solid Prores codec....
Ive got a squeaky clean Carl Zeiss Anamorphic lens im itching to use....
and if Blackmagic are listening....FOR GOD SAKE RELEASE THE FREEKIN POCKET CAMERA !
Is there like 2 guys sitting in a dark room assembling Pocket cameras?
or the BM staff building 1 camera during a *** break?
Just hit ONE release date on time....Please....
im down on my knees.......
I'll book a week off work and help you for NO pay......
I'll make the tea's....and carry boxes...even sweep the floor !!!

Shipping in JULY.

They never said the start of July. I always expected the end of July. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Chill out, relax and be patient. Not far away.
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Jace Ross

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 16, 2013 4:48 am

I was feeling a July 31st date, but to be honest. I don't mind waiting gives me time to save for accessories.
BMPCC, FD Canon 28mm f2.8, Tokina 80-200mm F4, Tamron 70-300mm f4 C Canon J6x12 MFT SLR Magic 17mm T1.6, Sigma 19mm f2.8, Samyang 7.5mm f3.5
Rode VideoMic, Viewfactor Cage/Handle/Grip/Perspex backing
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Panamatom

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 16, 2013 9:14 am

Mac Jaeger wrote:Unlikely. How should someone totally unknown suddenly have access to the Pocket CC out of the blue? Also there's no exceptional dynamic range in this video, and it's only available in 720p - this could have been done on any number of cameras.

Probably just someone who wants to draw attention. Probably yourself.


:D No, it´s not me! I´m waiting like the most people here for new footage, especially in RAW. The pocket camera seems to be the perfect body for GH2-Equipment owners like me. I hoped, that anybody knows the one who posted the footage on youtube. That seems not to be the case. So I have to continue with waiting and searching ...
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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 16, 2013 10:27 am

Got this email from CVP this morning...
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CVP Email update
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Richard Oakes

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 16, 2013 12:42 pm

KieranColey wrote:Got this email from CVP this morning...


If the resellers are complaining it just goes to show that keeping your customers completely in the dark About products they have ordered is not common practice. I guess Blackmagic just enjoy having a bad reputation for customer communication.
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Is BMPCC a UHS-II device or limited to UHS-I SDXC card speed

PostTue Jul 16, 2013 3:03 pm

Just read the Toshiba Press Release about their coming super fast SDXC cards

http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2013_07/pr1601.htm

Up to 240 Megabyte/second WRITE speeds! Plenty fast for the Pocket's needs. But I realized that they are UHS-II cards. I cannot find anywhere on the Blackmagic site the specific specs as to whether the camera can utilize these faster bus speeds (needs another row of pins.) The cards are backwards compatible by design, but, you'll likely lose the speed benefit.

Is the BMPCC a UHS-II compliant device or do they use older tech for the reader?

No rush for the answer since the Toshiba cards won't be available until October and November and then only initially in Japan. Until then I can make do with the Sandisk or the current Toshiba which I didn't know existed but writes at 90 Megabytes/second. (EXCERIA Type 1 SD-GU032G1 (32GB) Read Speed: 95MB/s, Write Speed: 90MB/s - per the press release.)

I am SO glad I pre-ordered my camera. I can't wait to start shooting with it. (Well, I guess I have to wait until the box arrives at my front door first.)

Christopher Schiller
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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 16, 2013 8:56 pm

I do not understand why not inform buyers about shipping date. i paid for a camera deserve a formal response from BMD.


Enviado desde mi iPad con Tapatalk HD
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 16, 2013 9:29 pm

Darkfable wrote:
KieranColey wrote:Got this email from CVP this morning...


If the resellers are complaining it just goes to show that keeping your customers completely in the dark About products they have ordered is not common practice. I guess Blackmagic just enjoy having a bad reputation for customer communication.


It may or may not be "common practice", but it's not unheard of.

A famous example is Apple. They generally keep their product announcements tightly-held secrets (with the occasional leak). Yet despite this, and partly because of it, Apple products are wildly popular, and Apple is an extremely successful & profitable company. Those are facts, not opinions.

Regardless of what you think of BMD or Apple, keeping product information essentially secret until "the day" is neither bad policy or bad business. You can choose which company you want to do business with. My guess is BMD (& Apple) would like you to be their customer, but no one is forcing you.

Meanwhile, it's not Aug. 1, 2013 yet! Officially, if necessary, whining shouldn't start till then. :lol:

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Andrew Gupta

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 16, 2013 9:41 pm

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:
Darkfable wrote:
KieranColey wrote:Got this email from CVP this morning...


If the resellers are complaining it just goes to show that keeping your customers completely in the dark About products they have ordered is not common practice. I guess Blackmagic just enjoy having a bad reputation for customer communication.


It may or may not be "common practice", but it's not unheard of.

A famous example is Apple. They generally keep their product announcements tightly-held secrets (with the occasional leak). Yet despite this, and partly because of it, Apple products are wildly popular, and Apple is an extremely successful & profitable company. Those are facts, not opinions.

Regardless of what you think of BMD or Apple, keeping product information essentially secret until "the day" is neither bad policy or bad business. You can choose which company you want to do business with. My guess is BMD (& Apple) would like you to be their customer, but no one is forcing you.

Meanwhile, it's not Aug. 1, 2013 yet! Officially, if necessary, whining shouldn't start till then. :lol:

-



Respectfully -- I think this is a bit overboard, and the "whining" comment unnecessary.

Like many, I've already paid in full for this product. And, as a producer, with two documentaries in production and an active feasibility study on doing a free training series on this pocket cinema camera -- it would be valuable to my planning and courteous customer service for Blackmagic to keep us reasonably informed. I won't be "whining" (as you wrote) regardless if this camera ships in July or February of 2014. But when retailers are posting bulletins to purchasers (that they don't do with Apple -- your comparison) -- it's not unreasonable for purchasers to respectfully ask questions.
Media Production by Andrew Gupta
http://www.andrewgupta.com/
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Richard Oakes

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 16, 2013 9:46 pm

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:
Darkfable wrote:
KieranColey wrote:Got this email from CVP this morning...


If the resellers are complaining it just goes to show that keeping your customers completely in the dark About products they have ordered is not common practice. I guess Blackmagic just enjoy having a bad reputation for customer communication.


It may or may not be "common practice", but it's not unheard of.

A famous example is Apple. They generally keep their product announcements tightly-held secrets (with the occasional leak). Yet despite this, and partly because of it, Apple products are wildly popular, and Apple is an extremely successful & profitable company. Those are facts, not opinions.

Regardless of what you think of BMD or Apple, keeping product information essentially secret until "the day" is neither bad policy or bad business. You can choose which company you want to do business with. My guess is BMD (& Apple) would like you to be their customer, but no one is forcing you.

Meanwhile, it's not Aug. 1, 2013 yet! Officially, if necessary, whining shouldn't start till then. :lol:

-


I've always known when apple are going to release stuff, they usually schedule a conference at the time of year that they usually release a product and they usually go on sale the day of the conference. If not they will give a date that the product will be available, this is why they get queues and people camping outside the stores for their newest product. How would they know if they didn't announce a shipping date?

Also apple don't take your money for the product and then give you no idea when it's out that is just bad.
Richard Oakes.
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adamroberts

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 16, 2013 9:50 pm

Still no shipping date for the Mac Pro tho...

And BM has not taken your money... The retailer has. Anyone who pays in full for a pre-order is nuts as far as I'm concerned... Just saying.
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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 16, 2013 10:08 pm

Apple also don't release shipping dates.

With a 'shipping date' as vague as July 2013, BMD have given themselves a lot of leeway.
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 16, 2013 10:12 pm

Andrew Gupta wrote:Respectfully -- I think this is a bit overboard, and the "whining" comment unnecessary.

Like many, I've already paid in full for this product. And, as a producer, with two documentaries in production and an active feasibility study on doing a free training series on this pocket cinema camera -- it would be valuable to my planning and courteous customer service for Blackmagic to keep us reasonably informed. I won't be "whining" (as you wrote) regardless if this camera ships in July or February of 2014. But when retailers are posting bulletins to purchasers (that they don't do with Apple -- your comparison) -- it's not unreasonable for purchasers to respectfully ask questions.


You pre-paid a BMD dealer, not BMD. Your choice.

BMD says the BMPCC pocket cam will start shipping (somewhere, in some unannounced quantity) by the end of this July.

You get to choose if that's enough communication or not.

Sure, you can choose to pre-pay, and ask questions, etc. It's your heart-attack.

But BMD owes you nothing unless they're late this time with the BMPCC pocket cam, which so far they are not.

When/if they are late, I'll raise my eyebrows in their general direction, but not before.

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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 16, 2013 10:15 pm

Ryan Jones wrote:Apple also don't release shipping dates.

With a 'shipping date' as vague as July 2013, BMD have given themselves a lot of leeway.


True, at least not before Apple announces a product. But they usually give an expected "ship by" date or time period once they announce. The recent new Mac Pro sneak peak is an example of an exception (no ship by date given).

Similar to what BMD does. But obviously, BMD is not Apple, not yet.

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Last edited by Peter J. DeCrescenzo on Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 16, 2013 10:16 pm

adamroberts wrote:Still no shipping date for the Mac Pro tho...

And BM has not taken your money... The retailer has. Anyone who pays in full for a pre-order is nuts as far as I'm concerned... Just saying.


Can't find any pre order site for the Mac Pro, as far as I'm aware they haven't taken everyone's money and then kept quiet. I know the retailer technically has the money, but at the request of blackmagic hence the where to buy links all over the pocket camera page. Mac Pro doesn't have this, it is just letting you know about a future product they are working on. You don't get the retailers sending out emails apologising for the lack of customer communication from apple. This alone should show you something is being dealt with differently than should be expected. We are now 2weeks away from August and have not seen any official footage from this camera, we have seen no RAW footage, there is no SD compatability list available, will it shoot RAW on shipping? Don't know? Is there enough units made to cover the back order? Don't know. Basically we have to pre order the camera months in advance to avoid being at the back of a years pre order backlog, but we can't see if this camera is any good till it arrives because that is how they roll? Awesome!
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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 16, 2013 10:21 pm

Darkfable wrote:
adamroberts wrote:Still no shipping date for the Mac Pro tho...

And BM has not taken your money... The retailer has. Anyone who pays in full for a pre-order is nuts as far as I'm concerned... Just saying.


Can't find any pre order site for the Mac Pro, as far as I'm aware they haven't taken everyone's money and then kept quiet. I know the retailer technically has the money, but at the request of blackmagic hence the where to buy links all over the pocket camera page. Mac Pro doesn't have this, it is just letting you know about a future product they are working on. You don't get the retailers sending out emails apologising for the lack of customer communication from apple. This alone should show you something is being dealt with differently than should be expected. We are now 2weeks away from August and have not seen any official footage from this camera, we have seen no RAW footage, there is no SD compatability list available, will it shoot RAW on shipping? Don't know? Is there enough units made to cover the back order? Don't know. Basically we have to pre order the camera months in advance to avoid being at the back of a years pre order backlog, but we can't see if this camera is any good till it arrives because that is how they roll? Awesome!


This is how we learn.

When BMD says they expect/hope to start shipping something by "X" date, we should not expect them to over-deliver other than the product's specs/price ratio ... unless they start changing their usual behavior. The latter may or may not ever happen.

I like BMD products, but I'm not crazy about their communication style.

However, given BMD's great product price/performance proposition, that's a situation some of us sometimes choose to deal with in a relatively low-stress way.

YMMV.

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 16, 2013 10:30 pm

There are places to preorder without paying in advance, or paying only a small, reasonable portion.
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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 16, 2013 10:32 pm

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:
Andrew Gupta wrote:Respectfully -- I think this is a bit overboard, and the "whining" comment unnecessary.

Like many, I've already paid in full for this product. And, as a producer, with two documentaries in production and an active feasibility study on doing a free training series on this pocket cinema camera -- it would be valuable to my planning and courteous customer service for Blackmagic to keep us reasonably informed. I won't be "whining" (as you wrote) regardless if this camera ships in July or February of 2014. But when retailers are posting bulletins to purchasers (that they don't do with Apple -- your comparison) -- it's not unreasonable for purchasers to respectfully ask questions.


You pre-paid a BMD dealer, not BMD. Your choice.

BMD says the BMPCC pocket cam will start shipping (somewhere, in some unannounced quantity) by the end of this July.

You get to choose if that's enough communication or not.

Sure, you can choose to pre-pay, and ask questions, etc. It's your heart-attack.

But BMD owes you nothing unless they're late this time with the BMPCC pocket cam, which so far they are not.

When/if they are late, I'll raise my eyebrows in their general direction, but not before.

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Boy, you just know everything and have all the answers.

Your professionalism and maturity make the prospect of participating on this forum as appealing as foot fungus.
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Richard Oakes

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 16, 2013 10:40 pm

This is how we learn.

When BMD says they expect/hope to start shipping something by "X" date, we should not expect them to over-deliver other than the product's specs/price ratio ... unless they start changing their usual behavior. The latter may or may not ever happen.

I like BMD products, but I'm not crazy about their communication style.

However, given BMD's great product price/performance proposition, that's a situation some of us sometimes choose to deal with in a relatively low-stress way.

YMMV.

-[/quote]

Don't get me wrong,the reason I'm starting to get worried/ annoyed isn't because of any product. I'm so excited about this camera, which is what makes it even more disappointing when the days come and go getting closer and closer to August and I still don't actually know if this camera is any good other than the spec sheet. The communication is poor! Apple have the luxury of being spontaneous and secretive, they have 20-30 years of satisfied trusting customers and as such are one of the biggest companies in the world. Blackmagic On the other hand have only ever released 1 camera before and that process was a train wreck. So they need to instil trust and communication to their customers, build a trust. And a community of loyal fans and users. Being deliberately tight lipped is not a good game to play when you are trying to regain trust after previous messy situations. It doesn't make me think ooh they are like apple, it makes me think oh dear what's gone wrong this time.
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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 16, 2013 10:44 pm

[/quote]

Boy, you just know everything and have all the answers.

Your professionalism and maturity make the prospect of participating on this forum as appealing as foot fungus.[/quote]

Hey man, there's no need to be nasty to people, we can all debate about this just fine without personal attacks at each other.
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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 16, 2013 10:52 pm

I'm sorry but comparing BMD preorders to an Apple product launch is insane!

When I preordered mine I more or less wrote off any chance of getting it this year, but many many others will have seen the 'shipping in July' info and not knowing any better taken it at face value, so I can understand why so many people become so frustrated. This whole process is very similar to the Red Epic/Scarlet launch. We should applaud BMD and Red for the wonderful cameras that they produce at amazing price points, but their product launches are a shambles when compared to almost any other company let alone a well oiled PR machine like Apple.
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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 16, 2013 11:13 pm

So much hostility around this place sometimes...

Darkfable, I think JB's demo footage is as good as 'official' as you're going to get. SD card compatibility list would be good, but JB has said Sandisk Extreme Pro is only card for raw, but he has used the 128GB Sandisk Extreme for ProRes.

A lot of the questions raised are the same as when you preorder ANYTHING. Answers will come in the end.

Meanwhile, it doesn't help anybody to come on every day and complain that it's now 17 July and the camera is supposed to be shipping. It's not. Hopefully it'll ship by the end of July.
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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 16, 2013 11:21 pm

Darkfable wrote:Don't get me wrong,the reason I'm starting to get worried/ annoyed isn't because of any product. I'm so excited about this camera, which is what makes it even more disappointing when the days come and go getting closer and closer to August and I still don't actually know if this camera is any good other than the spec sheet. The communication is poor! Apple have the luxury of being spontaneous and secretive, they have 20-30 years of satisfied trusting customers and as such are one of the biggest companies in the world. Blackmagic On the other hand have only ever released 1 camera before and that process was a train wreck. So they need to instil trust and communication to their customers, build a trust. And a community of loyal fans and users. Being deliberately tight lipped is not a good game to play when you are trying to regain trust after previous messy situations. It doesn't make me think ooh they are like apple, it makes me think oh dear what's gone wrong this time.


Understood. As I said, I'm not crazy about BMD's communication style. Apparently BMD has been "like" this for a long time. So I doubt they're going to change anytime soon.

But I accept it & respect them, especially because I like what they're doing with their products, and also how it shakes up the industry -- an industry that needs all the shaking up it can handle.

It's OK if some of us don't like BMD's style, but no need for us to go all Don Quixote, tilting at windmills.

At least not until Aug. 1, 2013 ...

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 16, 2013 11:29 pm

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:
Darkfable wrote:Don't get me wrong,the reason I'm starting to get worried/ annoyed isn't because of any product. I'm so excited about this camera, which is what makes it even more disappointing when the days come and go getting closer and closer to August and I still don't actually know if this camera is any good other than the spec sheet. The communication is poor! Apple have the luxury of being spontaneous and secretive, they have 20-30 years of satisfied trusting customers and as such are one of the biggest companies in the world. Blackmagic On the other hand have only ever released 1 camera before and that process was a train wreck. So they need to instil trust and communication to their customers, build a trust. And a community of loyal fans and users. Being deliberately tight lipped is not a good game to play when you are trying to regain trust after previous messy situations. It doesn't make me think ooh they are like apple, it makes me think oh dear what's gone wrong this time.


Understood. As I said, I'm not crazy about BMD's communication style. Apparently BMD has been "like" this for a long time. So I doubt they're going to change anytime soon.

But I accept it & respect them, especially because I like what they're doing with their products, and also how it shakes up the industry -- an industry that needs all the shaking up it can handle.

It's OK if some of us don't like BMD's style, but no need for us to go all Don Quixote, tilting at windmills.

At least not until Aug. 1, 2013 ...

-


Ha ha I'd love to see you on August 1st coming on here like Rambo with a vengeance ha ha! :)
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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 16, 2013 11:41 pm

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostWed Jul 17, 2013 2:12 am

Ryan Jones wrote:They exist, and are in the US: http://www.streamingmedia.com/Producer/ ... ign=Buffer


Isn't that footage taken during NAB 2013? I know the video was posted yesterday but I am under the impression the footage is old and was uploaded at a later date.
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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostWed Jul 17, 2013 2:58 am

thatsfinebut wrote:
Ryan Jones wrote:They exist, and are in the US: http://www.streamingmedia.com/Producer/ ... ign=Buffer


Isn't that footage taken during NAB 2013? I know the video was posted yesterday but I am under the impression the footage is old and was uploaded at a later date.

The writer is a user on the "C-Mount on M4/3" group on Facebook, said it was done yesterday. Not sure, doesn't look like NAB.
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