Blackmagic Forum

well Im travelling across Canada on the 8th of august which at the time I thought was plenty with a for sure july shipment......now IM not so sure, really could have used this light weight camera for this sigh I know Im one of the first few that ordered here in Van but its still so unsure.

Chiaroscuro wrote:“A mother is the truest friend we have, when trials heavy and sudden fall upon us; when adversity takes the place of prosperity; when friends desert us; when trouble thickens around us, still will she cling to us, and endeavor by her kind precepts and counsels to dissipate the clouds of darkness, and cause peace to return to our hearts.”
― Washington Irving

very nice but.... how is that relevant to the topic at hand?

Just printed off the full manual and had a read. It clearly talks about CinemaDNG RAW use on the pocket and the use of auto-focus, nothing about these features appearing in a future firmware update...it also mentions what recommended SD cards to use.

It basically states:

"SDHC and SDHX cards recommended for lossless compressed CinemaDNG RAW and Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) video recording include:

Sandisk 64GB Extreme
Sanidsk 64GB Extreme Pro
Sandisk 128gb Extreme

Nothing about whether they need to have 45mb/s or 95mb/s transfer rates though...

The Manual and 1.4 Firmware can be found here

http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/uk/supp ... lse&os=mac

SanDisk have also released a new range of the Extreme SD Cards.

Read speed 80MB/s
Write speed 60MB/s

LMACKREATH wrote:The Manual and 1.4 Firmware can be found here

http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/uk/supp ... lse&os=mac

Thanks for that, LMACKREATH!

Request:

Can those of you attending the BM event today please check out the AUTOFOCUS function's specific operation (does it continuously autofocus?) and maybe ask what lenses are recommended to work best with this camera's particular implementation of autofocus, especially wide angle zoom lenses?

Many thanks.

According to many sites isn't today the day the pocket camera is available?

Gan Eden wrote:According to many sites isn't today the day the pocket camera is available?

Was one of those sites this one? No? Then it is just conjecture.

question for john brawley: Do you have some more pocket footage coming out? I know you were exited to try the 35mm slr magic.

Darkfable wrote:question for john brawley: Do you have some more pocket footage coming out? I know you were exited to try the 35mm slr magic.

I'm trying to.

I'm shooting a series at the moment so it's hard to find time to specifically shoot something that meet's everyone's high expectations. I have been using it often on Puberty Blues season 2 though.


2013-06-19 13.03.57 by John Brawley, on Flickr

jb

John Brawley wrote:

Darkfable wrote:question for john brawley: Do you have some more pocket footage coming out? I know you were exited to try the 35mm slr magic.

I'm trying to.

I'm shooting a series at the moment so it's hard to find time to specifically shoot something that meet's everyone's high expectations. I have been using it often on Puberty Blues season 2 though.


2013-06-19 13.03.57 by John Brawley, on Flickr

jb

That's great! I can't imagine it being wide enough for that environment? what lens is being used in that image?

That's great! I can't imagine it being wide enough for that environment? what lens is being used in that image?

That's an SLR Magic 12mm T1.6

I just really hope we get some info today. A member of bh photo said that MFG told them to expect pocket cameras the second week of August. Hopefully this is not the same for all resellers.

DavidMelb wrote:SanDisk have also released a new range of the Extreme SD Cards.

Read speed 80MB/s
Write speed 60MB/s

Aren't they microSD?

Ryan Jones wrote:

DavidMelb wrote:SanDisk have also released a new range of the Extreme SD Cards.

Read speed 80MB/s
Write speed 60MB/s

Aren't they microSD?

It doesn't look like it, according to their website.
Had to go searching for the write speeds though.

http://www.sandisk.com/products/memory- ... acity=64GB

DavidMelb wrote:

Ryan Jones wrote:

DavidMelb wrote:SanDisk have also released a new range of the Extreme SD Cards.

Read speed 80MB/s
Write speed 60MB/s

Aren't they microSD?

It doesn't look like it, according to their website.
Had to go searching for the write speeds though.

http://www.sandisk.com/products/memory- ... acity=64GB

It is still yet to be seen whether 60MB/s write speed will be fast enough for the BMPCC. I would advise people against rushing out to buy these since there is already a card with 60MB/s write speed (which I own and have tested) for half the price and twice the capacity. A minority of people on Amazon have complained of reliability issues but mine seems fine and gets 60MB/s continously with sequential write speed tests using CrystalDiskMark.

60 mb/s will be plenty for ProRes, yet too slow for (compressed) raw.

About that 25th of july line: true, it's never been official, and Christine said todays event was no launch party. Yet i strongly hope they want to be prepared for all the guys asking "when's shipping?!"...

Anyways: it's done when it's done, and it's shipped when it's shipped. Can't rush them, can we? All signs say: it's gonna happen, and it's gonna happen soon - but for most of us, especially the european folk, the initial shipping date won't have any relevance anyhow. I for one hope that i'll have a nice christmas present delivered early...

ya know, i may be opening a can of worms for saying this, but I'm a little sad i haven't gotten an email yet saying its shipping. i was so hoping today would be the day, but i guess i just have to accept that the email may not come today super bummed out right now, can't express it in words.
i have my canon 6d to keep me company until then. just kinda wish B&H would just take my money from my account so i won't be tempted to change my mind and get something for my canon instead.

Mac Jaeger wrote:60 mb/s will be plenty for ProRes, yet too slow for (compressed) raw.

Just tossing out a guess, or based upon computation? Numbers always help. A common mistake is confusion between megabytes and megabits per second.

The manual is out. It mentions recommed SD-card. Case closed.

MarcusWolschon wrote:The manual is out. It mentions recommed SD-card. Case closed.

lol,
best yet its the same cards that were pictured on the blackmagic site. haha, it was a big mystery all right

One question here, does the BMPCC can have uncompressed hdmi output for external recorder like the BM hyperdeck shuttle so i can have same quality footage recorded directly to my SSDs?

laptiger wrote:but I'm a little sad i haven't gotten an email yet saying its shipping. i was so hoping today would be the day,

You're not serious about this, are you? That email you're waiting for, it has to come from B&H, right? Even _if_ the cams were shipping today, B&H wouldn't notify you until they had received the goods and until you were the next in line to ship to. Don't expect that particular email in the next one or two weeks if you are first in line, and a lot later if you're not.

hpmoon wrote:

Mac Jaeger wrote:60 mb/s will be plenty for ProRes, yet too slow for (compressed) raw.

Just tossing out a guess, or based upon computation? Numbers always help. A common mistake is confusion between megabytes and megabits per second.

Not tossing out a guess, i did the maths. My assumptions: in raw mode the camera will record bayer-pattern sensor data, 12 bits per bayer pixel, 1920x1080 pixel, at a maximum of 30 frames per second. That multiplies to 1920x1080x30x12 bit/s = 712 mbit/s = 89 mbyte/s for pure raw recording. To reduce the bandwidth under 60 mbyte/s you'd have to apply at least a 1 : 1.5 compression (that's the factor that's been floating around in the forums) - if they can achieve and sustain that compression factor lossless, we might just get away with 60 mbyte/s for video (plus a little extra for audio), but i wouldn't feel comfortable recording at the cards top limit. For the 45 mb/s cards to work you'd need more than a 1 : 2 compression - sustained, even on high detail scenes.

No real name given wrote:One question here, does the BMPCC can have uncompressed hdmi output for external recorder like the BM hyperdeck shuttle so i can have same quality footage recorded directly to my SSDs?

We expect it to have a "clean" hdmi out, as the big sister does.

hpmoon wrote:

Mac Jaeger wrote:60 mb/s will be plenty for ProRes, yet too slow for (compressed) raw.

Just tossing out a guess, or based upon computation? Numbers always help. A common mistake is confusion between megabytes and megabits per second.

The compressed RAW records at 70MB/s I worked this out by the stats given by Christine on the forum that stated that you can get 30 mins RAW on a 128GB SD card. The only card that supports these speeds and higher at the moment is the Sandisk Extreme Pro 64Gb which will allow a maximum of 15 minutes of RAW.

so yes hpmoon is correct.

MarcusWolschon wrote:The manual is out. It mentions recommed SD-card. Case closed.

You're joking (badly), right? The manual couldn't have been vaguer, but it's great business for SanDisk whose specs aren't best-in-class anyway.

Darkfable wrote:

hpmoon wrote:

Mac Jaeger wrote:60 mb/s will be plenty for ProRes, yet too slow for (compressed) raw.

Just tossing out a guess, or based upon computation? Numbers always help. A common mistake is confusion between megabytes and megabits per second.

The compressed RAW records at 70MB/s I worked this out by the stats given by Christine on the forum that stated that you can get 30 mins RAW on a 128GB SD card. The only card that supports these speeds and higher at the moment is the Sandisk Extreme Pro 64Gb which will allow a maximum of 15 minutes of RAW.

so yes hpmoon is correct.

To be fair, it was Mac Jaeger making that conclusion about 60 MB/s. Still vague (if it's advice) about the minimums for each mode -- something that Blackmagic should have (easily) tested and mentioned in its new manual update. I predict substantial confusion, and disappointment, coming from this oversight. Trial and error will be time-consuming, and costly.

CptZero wrote:One question here, does the BMPCC can have uncompressed hdmi output for external recorder like the BM hyperdeck shuttle so i can have same quality footage recorded directly to my SSDs?

Yes. You'll be able to set the BMPCC's 1080p HDMI output to be "clean" (no icons/text) so it can be recorded externally.

-

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:

CptZero wrote:One question here, does the BMPCC can have uncompressed hdmi output for external recorder like the BM hyperdeck shuttle so i can have same quality footage recorded directly to my SSDs?

Yes. You'll be able to set the BMPCC's 1080p HDMI output to be "clean" (no icons/text) so it can be recorded externally.

-

can you capture RAW in this way to get past the 15 minutes SD ceiling? or is it just prorez?

Darkfable wrote:

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:

CptZero wrote:One question here, does the BMPCC can have uncompressed hdmi output for external recorder like the BM hyperdeck shuttle so i can have same quality footage recorded directly to my SSDs?

Yes. You'll be able to set the BMPCC's 1080p HDMI output to be "clean" (no icons/text) so it can be recorded externally.

-

can you capture RAW in this way to get past the 15 minutes SD ceiling? or is it just prorez?

HDMI by definition isn't raw, its a debayered video signal, not raw sensor data. SDI again isn't raw. Uncompressed perhaps but not raw.

Pete Proniewicz-Brooks wrote:

Darkfable wrote:

can you capture RAW in this way to get past the 15 minutes SD ceiling? or is it just prorez?

[/quote]HDMI by definition isn't raw, its a debayered video signal, not raw sensor data. SDI again isn't raw. Uncompressed perhaps but not raw.[/quote]

Yes, you're correct, thanks for clarifying that. For example, the cam's HDMI output is 10-bit, whereas BMD RAW is 12-bit, etc.

External recording with the BMPCC allows you to achieve backup (dual) recording, or extended length recording, but it's not quite the same quality as RAW. Very, very good (in the case of uncompressed 10-bit 4:2:2), but not quite as good as RAW.

If one absolutely needs RAW, and longer recording times compared to the BMPCC, the original BMCC or BMPC-4K are two examples of cameras which may be better suited for the task.

-

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:

Pete Proniewicz-Brooks wrote:

Darkfable wrote:

can you capture RAW in this way to get past the 15 minutes SD ceiling? or is it just prorez?

HDMI by definition isn't raw, its a debayered video signal, not raw sensor data. SDI again isn't raw. Uncompressed perhaps but not raw.[/quote]

Yes, you're correct, thanks for clarifying that. For example, the cam's HDMI output is 10-bit, whereas BMD RAW is 12-bit, etc.

External recording with the BMPCC allows you to achieve backup (dual) recording, or extended length recording, but it's not quite the same quality as RAW. Very, very good (in the case of uncompressed 10-bit 4:2:2), but not quite as good as RAW.

If one absolutely needs RAW, and longer recording times compared to the BMPCC, the original BMCC or BMPC-4K are two examples of cameras which may be better suited for the task.

-[/quote]

Yes, unforunatly a but out of my price range too! Although I plan to get one eventually, or wait and see what goodies get announced at NAB 2014

hpmoon wrote:Still vague (if it's advice) about the minimums for each mode -- something that Blackmagic should have (easily) tested and mentioned in its new manual update. I predict substantial confusion, and disappointment, coming from this oversight. Trial and error will be time-consuming, and costly.

Compressed raw is not available in the CC2k5s current firmware and probably won't make it to the initial release of Pocket and Production Cameras; it seems fair to assume that they are still working on the implementation, and thus couldn't test cards under real world conditions. Yet the cameras are starting to ship (i'm still a firm believer...) and thus need manuals - no wonder they are vague

Ogy Stoilov (@MRPFilms) tweeted at 10:03pm - 25 Jul 13:

From the BMD LA Event: Pocket Cam shipping in 3-4 days in small quantities; 4K camera still not finished. Sept more likely #BMCC (https://twitter.com/MRPFilms/status/360505542327795713)

Why small quantities??

DavidMelb wrote:

Ryan Jones wrote:

DavidMelb wrote:SanDisk have also released a new range of the Extreme SD Cards.

Read speed 80MB/s
Write speed 60MB/s

Aren't they microSD?

It doesn't look like it, according to their website.
Had to go searching for the write speeds though.

http://www.sandisk.com/products/memory- ... acity=64GB

That link is for the old ones, I have one of those ready for ProRes shooting. They are 80mb/s read, but only 45mb/s write.

I'm sure when the camera comes out people will test all kinds of cards and find things work. I'm glad BMD have given us a starting point that they've been able to verify.

Darkfable wrote:Ogy Stoilov (@MRPFilms) tweeted at 10:03pm - 25 Jul 13:

From the BMD LA Event: Pocket Cam shipping in 3-4 days in small quantities; 4K camera still not finished. Sept more likely #BMCC (https://twitter.com/MRPFilms/status/360505542327795713)

Why small quantities??

FYI, you can get all this breaking news (if you weren't already -- credit where credit is due) via these active feeds of the unofficial User Group community:

http://facebook.com/BMCCusers
http://twitter.com/BMCCusers
http://vimeo.com/groups/blackmagic

What does stuff like this contribute to the forum? What have I learned about cameras and cinematography from reading it?

Andrew Reid wrote:

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:You're right of course, Theodore.

I probably should have said "unmentionables" instead of "panties".

My bad. Apologies to everyone who wears 'em.

-

What does stuff like this contribute to the forum? What have I learned about cameras and cinematography from reading it?

0, which was sort of my point.
People who own and shoot (for profit) with blackmagic cameras, trumped, tarred and feathered by those who mostly cut and paste (and lets not mention the wild conjecture)

"Same as it ever was, same as it ever was..."

All of your childish postings don't contribute anything but noise, the accusations as well as the defenses. Could you please stop that nonsense?

Darkfable wrote:From the BMD LA Event: Pocket Cam shipping in 3-4 days in small quantities; 4K camera still not finished. Sept more likely #BMCC (https://twitter.com/MRPFilms/status/360505542327795713)

Why small quantities??

Nice to know that july 25th actually brought news about the shipping, despicte BMDs dementi. We'll see how much truth lies therein in a couple of days.

Why small quantities? Hmm... my best guess is: these are "handpacked" cameras sent to selected distributors to keep them happy and make good on the "shipping july" promise. Still it's good news - at least for the Pocket CC.

Ok, check it out: I heard it from a guy who talked to some other guys who said the following:
(The guy was the Black Magic Design rep at the LA product event)
BMPCC: Still waiting on the green light (I assume from some form of manufacturing QC) for mass shipping. No numbers yet (I don't think they even want to know them) but a few more demos have begun shipping to retailers. It should be a couple or three business days before those start shipping out. You're not getting RAW on the first wave. That's coming later on a firmware update.
BMCC4K: Still has about 3 to 4 weeks worth of development before those are ready to be approved for shipping. Not sure what the technical issues are, but those are taking a bit more time.

But that's just what I felt like knowing.

One other thing: they said they expect to be shipping full quantities around the end of next week to the beginning of the following week.

I love that people are stressing about Raw and haggling over SD card mathematics, all the while John Brawley is using the camera to shoot a network television show.

Corey wrote:I love that people are stressing about Raw and haggling over SD card mathematics, all the while John Brawley is using the camera to shoot a network television show.

Look at John's pictures...he was using the camera inside a car. Horses for courses. It's very unlikely that any network television shows will be shot with a PC as the A cam.

Regarding the Pocket, they said at NAB that they had no idea how many to produce because they weren't sure of the demand. They didn't want to over spend producing units that wouldn't sell. As more footage comes out and people see reviews etc the demand will increase and they'll be much more comfortable giving the go ahead for higher volume production. Since I myself didn't have the funds for a preorder until recently I may as well wait for the stock to be readily available at places like B&H, it'll probably be January before that happens anyways.

IVIaverick52 wrote:Regarding the Pocket, they said at NAB that they had no idea how many to produce because they weren't sure of the demand. They didn't want to over spend producing units that wouldn't sell. As more footage comes out and people see reviews etc the demand will increase and they'll be much more comfortable giving the go ahead for higher volume production. Since I myself didn't have the funds for a preorder until recently I may as well wait for the stock to be readily available at places like B&H, it'll probably be January before that happens anyways.

Hmm. I don't buy that.

Mac Jaeger wrote:

laptiger wrote:but I'm a little sad i haven't gotten an email yet saying its shipping. i was so hoping today would be the day,

You're not serious about this, are you? That email you're waiting for, it has to come from B&H, right? Even _if_ the cams were shipping today, B&H wouldn't notify you until they had received the goods and until you were the next in line to ship to. Don't expect that particular email in the next one or two weeks if you are first in line, and a lot later if you're not.

hpmoon wrote:

Mac Jaeger wrote:60 mb/s will be plenty for ProRes, yet too slow for (compressed) raw.

Just tossing out a guess, or based upon computation? Numbers always help. A common mistake is confusion between megabytes and megabits per second.

Not tossing out a guess, i did the maths. My assumptions: in raw mode the camera will record bayer-pattern sensor data, 12 bits per bayer pixel, 1920x1080 pixel, at a maximum of 30 frames per second. That multiplies to 1920x1080x30x12 bit/s = 712 mbit/s = 89 mbyte/s for pure raw recording. To reduce the bandwidth under 60 mbyte/s you'd have to apply at least a 1 : 1.5 compression (that's the factor that's been floating around in the forums) - if they can achieve and sustain that compression factor lossless, we might just get away with 60 mbyte/s for video (plus a little extra for audio), but i wouldn't feel comfortable recording at the cards top limit. For the 45 mb/s cards to work you'd need more than a 1 : 2 compression - sustained, even on high detail scenes.

No real name given wrote:One question here, does the BMPCC can have uncompressed hdmi output for external recorder like the BM hyperdeck shuttle so i can have same quality footage recorded directly to my SSDs?

We expect it to have a "clean" hdmi out, as the big sister does.

Are you an employee of BMD? Just asking.

mhood wrote:

Corey wrote:I love that people are stressing about Raw and haggling over SD card mathematics, all the while John Brawley is using the camera to shoot a network television show.

Look at John's pictures...he was using the camera inside a car. Horses for courses. It's very unlikely that any network television shows will be shot with a PC as the A cam.

As long as you have broadcast safe whites you can shoot TV Shows and commercials, It's been done many times on the 5D MKII, But not always as the "A" cam.
I believe Puberty Blues has used RED's, Alexa's, and even BMCC's as "A"cams, Don't quote me on the BMCC

Official statement from Blackmagic on new camera shipping:

Simon Westland of Blackmagic Design EMEA

"Blackmagic Design is making significant progress in production of the new Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera and Blackmagic Production Camera 4K. Full production manufacturing is underway on the Pocket Cinema Camera with first production units in final testing. This is inline with our initial expectations of the end of July and means the camera will start to ship in quantity during August. There are several weeks of work to do on Production Camera 4K before this will enter full production manufacturing, however we expect to ship the first quantities of this model before the end of August."

Theodore Prentice wrote:Peter is probably somewhere typing up a thesis on how this is not a delay, and the fact that its still July after all...

Ease up. The personal attacks have gone far enough.

The good news here is the camera is coming, and the delay *should* be minimal. A better result than the 4k.

Not to some people apparently! Judging on what has been said over the past few weeks the world is going to end if these cameras aren't shipped by the end of the month.

Darryl Gregory wrote:

mhood wrote:

Corey wrote:I love that people are stressing about Raw and haggling over SD card mathematics, all the while John Brawley is using the camera to shoot a network television show.

Look at John's pictures...he was using the camera inside a car. Horses for courses. It's very unlikely that any network television shows will be shot with a PC as the A cam.

As long as you have broadcast safe whites you can shoot TV Shows and commercials, It's been done many times on the 5D MKII, But not always as the "A" cam.
I believe Puberty Blues has used RED's, Alexa's, and even BMCC's as "A"cams, Don't quote me on the BMCC

I caught 'The Gadget Show' on UK channel 5 this week and they ran a live studio feed from 5D's to prove the point about the quality, it was interesting:)

Well I didn't get the camera in time for the birth of my son this morning! I told him to stay in a couple more weeks :p