Blackmagic Forum

Big question about BMMCC and BMMSC4K.

Since update 4.7, the BMMS (studio 4K) allows to have 12-bit RAW via an external recorder ... which would be great news.

I myself have the BMMCC (cinema) to which it lacks one thing: the 4K.

Questions: why are there still no tests done with the studio attached to a Video assist 4k or an Atomos? ...

About the dynamic range, will we have the same on the Studio 4k version as on the Cinema version?

So far, I never really know if the two sensors are the same ...

While waiting for the first tests, thank you for your comments.

Chris

I did a test record to Assist 4k but I have no found a way to unpack those files yet.

the RAW mode is ONLY available on the Micro studio camera. not on the Cinema version.

The signal is send on the SDI output and can be recorded with a recorder that is able to record uncompressed MOV if i remember.

The whole story is in the manual of the Micro Studio camera.. Somewere to the end of the manual (Before they go to another language) you will find a few pages ## Developer Information ## about this RAW setup.

What BMD did is to enable this on their cameras. So other manufacturers like Atomos and Adobe can adopt this RAW mode into their hardware /software and we will have to wait for other vendors to pick it up and do something with it.

BMD clairly state they do not support the RAW format at this moment in Resolve. Maybe in the future we will see an update for this. But as of now and today the RAW mode is useless until a 3th party has developed a plugin to use it

Meanwhile, I see that some describe the sensor of the Micro Studio, as very different from the Micro Cinema, lower with a dynamic range more limited ... therefore less suitable for the cinema ...
This sensor would be the same as the 4K broadcast? ...
So we would be far from the "old" Production 4K? ...
Blackmagic does not give information on this point ... and no one really knows what the Micro Studio is worth compared to other Blackmagic cameras ...

For the RAW, I find it really strange that Blackmagic advance this possibility via the SDI, while it would not be really possible via an external recorder? ... I think Blackmagic did not do it for no specific reason ... and that it will be verified in the coming days ...

The qualities of BM Micro Cinema remain exceptional ... and we can always get beautiful upsaling via Resolve ...

So BM Micro Studio could become the Micro Cinema 4K? ...

The Micro Studio is the same sensor as the larger BM Studio 4K live production camera. The new update did drop the color saturation to a more realistic, natural looking level. See Howard’s comment on this thread about the new FW update viewtopic.php?f=2&t=44190

Raw output is nit useat this time as a Daniel pointed out. Yes dynamic range is less, around 11-12 stops vs the Micro Cinema 14-stops. The Micro Studio need a more controlled lighting situation, and you can get some equally nice shots from it as the Micro Cinema, with less post processing required. To me this is a nice advantage. Shooting film log on the Micro Cinema is more flexable, but requires more post work.

I look at the Micro as a Kodacolor style “negative”, while the Micr Studio is like shooting Ektachrome positive reversal film, less latitude but richer colors.
Cheers.

Denny Smith wrote:The Micro Studio is the same sensor as the larger BM Studio 4K live production camera.

Is there proof somewere of this?? Because that would mean that the sensor is capable of 60fps with enough cooling

That means that in a little bit different housing we might expect a 12G micro studio cam in the near future..

BM Support stated this to me when the Micr Studio came out, however it has a different video processor board, and gets a faster sensor read out time. At first, I thought it was a Global Shutter, asked support, they replied, no a RS, with the same sensor as the larger BM Studio 4K, in a smaller form factor, so with current Micro cooling and processor, no 60fps. Maybe a new 4K camera down the road with 60fps, would be nice .
Cheers

Is it possible that the Micro cinema can still evolve, have new capacity?

Currently not much more then a few software tweaks like they did a month ago.

But i guess you will see a new and more powerfull model somewere down the line between now and 2 years that will have more functions, maybe 4K, maybe a small lcd in it.. Who knows..

... It seems that Blackmagic has a new camera for 2018 ... maybe a third for the family "Micro"? ... with the sensor ursa Mini 4K ...

For the moment, I am waiting for a real technical comparison between the Micro Cinema and the Micro Studio and the recording of its RAW image ... and I will make my decision, if I have to stay at Blackmagic or go to the Kinefinity Terra 4K ...

For the time being only recorders that can record uncompressed 10 bit UHD can actually record the output of the raw data. It’s a small list and currently there are no portable recorders that will do so. Cfast 2.0 is still too slow if that gives any perspective on the data rate. If you do manage to record the signal properly you’re still going to wait for someone to develop the software or hardware to unpack it.

Christophe, before making that switch, consider the intangible value of the respective forums. How is the repartee in the Kinefinity forum?


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The only way a portable recorder could do it to something like CFast, would be to compress the incoming raw signal to something the media could handle. Again, nothing currently available can do this that I am aware of.
Cheers

Rick, when I say Kinefinity, it's just an example. I can also talk about Red. I've been using Blackmagic's cameras for years (I realize it's been around since the very beginning of Blackmagic's first products), and I remain convinced that the Micro Cinema sensor is still a big hit.
But I think that another member of this family is still missing, which explains my questions.

The Axiom camera crew were packing raw into 1080p HDMI, but the recorders were changing it somehow. But they might have upacking software.

Now, different chips in the family used in the micro studio have 14 stops and 4kp60 modes, maybe this chip has a hdr made with 14 stops. They should activate available modes.

Good they release firmware to make the color more natural, but why not from the but start. Every reason I didn't buy a microstudio turns out he device could do what it didn't. What sort of sales is that? They could have put it at full tilt in a production case, or other, killed the production and 4k mini, and stuck with the mini pro. The lineup would beich better. Plus, the other slightly newer old sensors in that family are even better to use. This year's Sony sensors will probably top the mini pro. The pictures from late last year's top consumer camcorder had great rendering ability.

I'm wondering if the technological in the studio is related to Red's previous sensor? They both had that skin level effect I saw where skin tone contouring would vary more.

The third range of the family of "Micro" might be the MICRO PRO ...
Blackmagic now has the means to get ahead of Red.
Like Matthew Scott, I am now a fan user of the BM Micro.

http://mattscottvisuals.com

The paradox, the irony, is the price that makes this professional film camera, too affordable ... and that anyone can use it as a family gadget ... Which explains the videos so different on the web, the worst to the best.

Today, even hardcore fans of Red recognize the qualities of the Micro Cinema. The story is in perpetual motion ... The winds are still turning ...

Christophe, don't sweat it. People can use a $30 camera to film YouTube quality videos. But the extra hobbyist sales for a cheaper BM simply makes for a larger volume camera, and cheaper equipment for us. Sure it might like better than a $100 camera, but it will still be the same people making stuff.

rick.lang wrote:Christophe, before making that switch, consider the intangible value of the respective forums. How is the repartee in the Kinefinity forum?

The Facebook Kinefinity group is very active, and quite helpful:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/kinefinity/