Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

Screenshot from youtube channel "NAB Show"

For us Mac guys, I know it is not a BM product. "ProRes RAW is a new format from Apple that offers the quality and workflow advantages of RAW with the stunning performance of ProRes. With ProRes RAW, editors can import, edit and grade pristine footage with RAW data from the camera sensor, providing ultimate flexibility when adjusting highlights and shadows — ideal for HDR workflows. And with performance optimized for macOS, editors can play full-quality 4K ProRes RAW files on MacBook Pro and iMac systems in real time without rendering. ProRes RAW files are even smaller than ProRes 4444 files, allowing editors to make better use of storage while providing an excellent format for archiving."

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2018/04/final-cut-pro-x-update-introduces-prores-raw-and-advanced-closed-captioning/

"ProRes RAW is a new format from Apple ..."

As long as they insist on locking out 95% of all computers (i.e. Windows/Linux) from their codec, they can take their codec and shove it up their ***.

And cineform raw is now open source which I think would be a better support candidate

And cineform raw is now open source which I think would be a better support candidate

Well you would have ProRes RAW for the Mac guys and Cineform for the Windows guys. Problem solved

Since it's an acquisition codec the platform might not matter, like it doesn't now for the normal ProRes.

White paper for ProRes RAW for those interested:
https://images.apple.com/final-cut-pro/docs/Apple_ProRes_RAW_White_Paper.pdf

Couldn't have hurt them to go a bit more in depth on the compression method or other relevant specs like supported bit depths, etc...

Companies are starting to use the new ProRes RAW. The BM site lists tthere is an announcement of things, including camera things, on Tuesday. Why so long? It's been years since a Reduser has snuck pictures of preshow materials with a new BM camera on them.

And cineform raw is now open source which I think would be a better support candidate

Well you would have ProRes RAW for the Mac guys and Cineform for the Windows guys. Problem solved

Not the same, prores raw is old concept from born, they not copy correctly a workflow that was born in 2006 with cineform Raw.

- CineformRaw could be do in camera (kineinfinity, SI2k, CInerecorder) or you can convert arriraw, redcodec, dng, most of dslr raw to cineformraw without problem vs ProresRaw where you need a camera or a recorder with Proresraw to have this codec.

- CFraw you can use CF Raw in every software that read codec from os in windows, mac, and today that is opensource will be also easely under linux, actually ProresRaw is read only by FinalcutProX, also a simple dailty is a pain... i hope an update for qt update to read it, but every daily tools be obsolete.

- CF active metadata database driven tool vs simple passive decoding mean different and complex managment in the workflow.
If it's possible in 2006 with core duo for 2k raw, today must be possible to do in mobile with an ipadpro. ProresRaw from white pater they told that you can use only with some amount of power... And sample of benchmark are did with strong powerful CPU/gpu 18 core....

- CFraw is opensource, ProresRaw is patent Apple, and you know, also if word Apple could do all better, you pay a lot this, in first you cannot add to all software that you want... At today prores is only under MacOs, and few software use really the power of Prores (tons of feature wasted and forgetted from NLE / PostPro software developer.

And cineform raw is now open source which I think would be a better support candidate

Well you would have ProRes RAW for the Mac guys and Cineform for the Windows guys. Problem solved

Not the same, prores raw is old concept from born, they not copy correctly a workflow that was born in 2006 with cineform Raw.

- CineformRaw could be do in camera (kineinfinity, SI2k, CInerecorder) or you can convert arriraw, redcodec, dng, most of dslr raw to cineformraw without problem vs ProresRaw where you need a camera or a recorder with Proresraw to have this codec.

- CFraw you can use CF Raw in every software that read codec from os in windows, mac, and today that is opensource will be also easely under linux, actually ProresRaw is read only by FinalcutProX, also a simple dailty is a pain... i hope an update for qt update to read it, but every daily tools be obsolete.

- CF active metadata database driven tool vs simple passive decoding mean different and complex managment in the workflow.

- CFraw is opensource, ProresRaw is patent Apple, and you know, also if word Apple could do all better, you pay a lot this, in first you cannot add to all software that you want... At today prores is only under MacOs, and few software use really the power of Prores (tons of feature wasted and forgetted from NLE / PostPro software developer.

And your point is? At one point cuneiform was not open source when Cineform made and made money off of it. Apple users like to use ProRes as it is built b the company that made the operating system and works without issue on it. Many working professionals still prefer Mac as it has less issues than windows. I myself migrated 2 years ago to Mac only and I will never go back to windows again. Half of my time was spent dealing with Windows issues and headaches. Never again. But yes it is Mac only. So what? Yes it is only read by Final Cut now but that is an attempt to lure people back to using FinalCut in a market that they dominated before screwing up and making FinalCut X. It will be open to Mac users eventually because Mac people will demand it. I used to use Cineform raw. Found it okay but nowhere near as good as ProRes. And ProRes RAW is not an older system. It is a new codec in a well established line of cedes.

This is what JB posted at the BMCuser forum regarding dual recording

"Dual recording will never happen on any current BMD hardware. The way each recording codec runs on it’s own firmware and the way that works is that it has to reboot a different firmware when you change a codec or resolution or project frame rate.

Notice when you you change a codec setting it’s a couple of seconds to get back to the live image ? That’s your camera re-starting . It just happens so fast few realise that’s what’s going on.

Apple ProRes RAW is really really interesting. You should be able to imagine that it’s like other flavours of ProRes, which are often added to cameras. So I would imagine many cameras that shoot ProRes could also shoot ProRes RAW. Including Alexa.

JB"

Clayton, that Apple news release is just too brief. Adjusting shadows and highlights!? That’s good but is that all? ISO, temperature, tint, and what else is missing? Maybe just ad copy from a marketing rep that doesn’t understand all the benefits of raw.


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Clayton, that Apple news release is just too brief. Adjusting shadows and highlights!? That’s good but is that all? ISO, temperature, tint, and what else is missing? Maybe just ad copy from a marketing rep that doesn’t understand all the benefits of raw.


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I don't know. I do not work for Apple. I just saw it and posted it here. They will probably come out with more later. Someone posted the link to the white paper above which has more info on it.

https://images.apple.com/final-cut-pro/docs/Apple_ProRes_RAW_White_Paper.pdf

Clayton, that Apple news release is just too brief. Adjusting shadows and highlights!? That’s good but is that all? ISO, temperature, tint, and what else is missing? Maybe just ad copy from a marketing rep that doesn’t understand all the benefits of raw.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The raw data is what it is, If WB is baked in somehow then it's not really raw. How it's implemented in whatever software is at the discretion of the mfr. Will fcpx get a "raw" tab? Who knows.

New 4K pocket camera. I believe credit for this pic goes to a guy named Steele Rutherford‎ on the BM Facebook group

Tanks Clayton, looking good for a new Pocket/Micro at last! Looks like we will have the details on Monday morning, Grant is having a news conference announcement session.
Cheers

Tanks Clayton, looking good for a new Pocket/Micro at last!
Cheers

Yup

So Clayton, are you going to NAB? If so, perhaps you can be our “Reporter at Large” and get the inside scoop for us.
Cheers

So Clayton, are you going to NAB? If so, perhaps you can be our “Reporter at Large” and get the inside scoop for us.
Cheers

No. I got that pic from the BM facebook group and just edited the post to reflect credit for the picture to a guy named Steele Rutherford‎

We should start a new thread for those who are going to NAB 2018 and then the reports can go in one place. I’ll leave the honours of hosting that new thread to our first reporter.

JB just confirmed in the BMCUSer forum that the pic is not a fake and the camera is real

"Originally Posted by Asyndeton
"Saw that image posted on Facebook, any confirmation that it’s not fake?"

Real

JB"

Tanks Clayton, looking good for a new Pocket/Micro at last! Looks like we will have the details on Monday morning, Grant is having a news conference announcement session.

I've never pre-ordered a system.
I guess I did once with the P&S Mini 35 system but we were collaborating.

Anyway, this I'll preorder a couple of immediately.
My partner asked me recently, with all the current options, why we hadn't just picked up small 4k cameras for the upcoming schedule and I said "NAB". Which meant nothing to her because she's a normal business person.

So I just hope it's got an early summer avail. Most of my spring production schedule is spots and indoor corporate. I just want these for the summer/fall outdoor/travel/action season.

May I say an understated, yay.

New 4K pocket camera. I believe credit for this pic goes to a guy named Steele Rutherford‎ on the BM Facebook group

I remain skeptical. Why tease it if you're introducing it, probably why I don't have a marketing job.

New 4K pocket camera. I believe credit for this pic goes to a guy named Steele Rutherford‎ on the BM Facebook group

I remain skeptical. Why tease it if you're introducing it, probably why I don't have a marketing job.

Again, Brawley just confirmed on the BMCUSER forum it is real.

Someone just posted a picture of an official BMD poster in Vegas announcing a Blackmagic pocket cinema camera 4K.

Someone just posted a picture of an official BMD poster in Vegas announcing a Blackmagic pocket cinema camera 4K.

Yo. Scrowl up

Ha! In all my excitement, I didn't see that.

Ha! In all my excitement, I didn't see that.

Nice, I'll add the Pocket 4K to my birthday wish list for July. Could always use a smaller camera that has great quality for more personal stuff.

Either way, I think I'm still more excited for Resolve 15!

ProRes raw is the 10 bit version comparable to ProRes 442 HQ I believe. When comparing to ProRes 444 12 bit, we should be referring to ProRes raw HQ 12 bit. A bit confusing perhaps.

Brawley just confirmed on the BMCUSER forum it is real.

Reinforcing why I'm no good at marketing OR NAB predictions. this is literally the first year since the pocket came out that I let the dream die and didn't predict a new one. Good Times.

I took bets on it and it turns out they're going to pay for a few cameras

Wow

And to think I spent the last month trying to decide on a 4k camera upgrade for my ronin and was going to go GH5S... I’m excited to see what this brings.

And also an announcement about the turrets would be great

*carries on back to never never land

Great news!

BM have always been so cagey when talking about a new pocket cam that I really had given up hope. I certainly didn't expect to see it at this NAB, but very interested.
But for goodness sake, please dear laawwdd, just give the thing an internal battery that actually lasts longer than that time I lost my virginity...

I'm always excited at this time of the year to see what these fellow Aussies come up with. Let's hope this new one is in a 'video camera' form factor with an optical viewfinder that includes a dioptre adjustment and rubber eye cap. I wont hold my breath... The original Pocket, irrespective of picture quality was totally useless for shooting documentary video outdoors without cumbersome rigging which IMO, largely defeated it's purpose. BMD could expand the Digital Bolex concept further as there still isn't a true successor to the classic 16mm doco camera.

Not everybody aspires to make Hollywood Cinema movies....

Gavin, you and me both, but I was holding my breath, waiting to see if BM delivered a new Pocket/S16 4K Camera. Anyone want a good deal on a Micro Cinema Camera?

Craig, that would be grand, a nice useable built in EVF.
Cheers

I'm wondering if it might be a Micro 4/3 sensor.

Don't hold your breath yet. It could be simply a camera with swappable sensor/mount units (indicated by the bulge on the photograph) with an option to either choose the old 1080p sensor for low light and dynamic range, or the Micro Studio 4k sensor for pixel resolution but with the known tradeoffs in dynamic range and ISO.

Now I bet BMD stuff got a good amount of giggling out of reading our pocket camera discussions over the last months.

And your point is? At one point cuneiform was not open source when Cineform made and made money off of it. Apple users like to use ProRes as it is built b the company that made the operating system and works without issue on it. Many working professionals still prefer Mac as it has less issues than windows. I myself migrated 2 years ago to Mac only and I will never go back to windows again. Half of my time was spent dealing with Windows issues and headaches. Never again. But yes it is Mac only. So what? Yes it is only read by Final Cut now but that is an attempt to lure people back to using FinalCut in a market that they dominated before screwing up and making FinalCut X. It will be open to Mac users eventually because Mac people will demand it. I used to use Cineform raw. Found it okay but nowhere near as good as ProRes. And ProRes RAW is not an older system. It is a new codec in a well established line of cedes.

my point is that prores is Application related performance, no many NLE use scalability of prores (from his first incarnation), reason that fcp is faster to edit than another NLE with same file, and more... Cf is workflow (data driven) optimized. I used CFraw under mac in 2013 to build a complete pipeline under mac exactly be cause i allow editor to work fine with raw files instead proxy and spread files along multiple structure in a indie production where i know that they are loose time, money and more.

I work fine with mac Os and Windows in video editing from since 1995, from first video card capture and betacam, in both World i found issue, but few issue, be cause i used to use strong and well verified workstation under mac and win.

Most of professional that not use Mac deal with economic computer windows or worst assembled computer from people that don't know about video and postproduction editing, but only gaming, different beast. If you work with a solid workstation with a brand, assistance, and developed for video, and you not install rubbish on it, is stable as a mac. I not have preference, only different work to do on different workstation under Osx Maverick or Seven, yes maverick be cause Smoke is not certified under os over Maverick, and yes seven be cause i use 3d software that are tricked from win10 be cause it change library of nvidia and have problem of stability.

Computer be part of my life from since 34 years, and not exist a perfect computer, exist the equilibrium between performance and what i need. I not need to be a computer geek with the last update, i need stable computer where i can work, where i can send render for two weeks and be sure that all work fine.
ProresRaw if faster not offer me more than i just have, seems the iphone of codec (i have an iphone, if someone think i'm offensive against iphone user ), better than others but who care of difference? few, very few people.

I told that ProresRaw is old system be cause is only a addition of raw data in a old codec structure (2006) , but until i not see the same features of other raw codec, and in particular the ability to encode every other raw to ProresRaw, and allow me to work lighting than other solution is not a new deal...
And... how could you do a difference of performance with CFraw against a prores which is not raw?
debayering realtime against a simple rbg structure?
try a CF quality 5 (the best) against a simple prores HQ 10 bit check the cpu work (win or mac) and tell me the difference...
try to encode a simple movie NOT in a 4:4:4 and add an alpha... you can't be cause prores support alpha only in 4:4:4 option...

is not CF against Prores, is a workflow difference, is all day working difference where you can prefer a codec to another.
I also use Prores every day, but is not the same performance under win or mac, is not the same performance from one NLE to another (someone support scalability data of prores, some other support quantization, most of NLE support nothing of optimization of prores).

Anyway i not told that i not want ProresRaw, i told that i prefer to have firstly CineformRaw, if they decide to have both, is better.

My “fear” is that the 4K sensor on the new Pocket Camera will be the broadcast Gen version, not the 13ish stops of DR we have with the BMMCC.

My “fear” is that the 4K sensor on the new Pocket Camera will be the broadcast Gen version, not the 13ish stops of DR we have with the BMMCC.

There's no reason to fear that. It's called a Cinema Camera not a Broadcast Camera. It's self explanatory.

Lol, is that a lens barrel I see? Is it fixed. Dream come true if a best fixed lens on a cheap camera.

But the old pocket is still normal price. So, is this going be cheap?

It looks like consumer camera curvey body though.

Adam, BM stated last year, they wanted a new Cinema type 4K sensor for the new Pocket 4K, not the broadcast type sensor they already had.
Cheers

I called up the place I buy my gear and he called up his BM distributer who couldn't say anything other than "expect more audio stuff this year"

A $999 for UHD/HD, $1,299 for oversampled DCI 4K?

A $999 for UHD/HD, $1,299 for oversampled DCI 4K?

Turns out Dean might not be credible so I edited my post to take that out

Another banner photo of the new pocket

I'll be very surprised if it lists at any figure below US$3999. Pleasantly surprised. Remember RED promised 4K for $4K several years ago and we saw where that ended...