Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline
User avatar

timbutt2

  • Posts: 1537
  • Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:32 am

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostWed Mar 28, 2018 6:35 pm

Seems like Full Frame is the big thing this year. First the ARRI ALEXA LF and now...

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/vi ... F0CD4F528F

If you ask me this new Canon C700 FF is an overpriced waste. The ARRI ALEXA LF is definitely better by a long shot. And, if Blackmagic did do an URSA Mini Full Frame Sensor Camera I guarantee it would do RAW internally and have far better recording options. Either way, we're definitely going to see more Full Frame cameras in the near future.
"I'm well trained in the art of turning **** to gold." - Tim Buttner (timbutt2)

Cameras: URSA Mini Pro G2, URSA Mini 4.6K EF & Cinema Camera 2.5K EF
Computers: iMac 5K (Late 2015) & MacBook Pro Retina 15.4in (Mid 2018)
Offline

Michael Odhiambo

  • Posts: 150
  • Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:27 pm

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostWed Mar 28, 2018 6:55 pm

carlomacchiavello wrote:My hope is simple, no more cameras.....

sorry bro. Canon disappointed you
Offline
User avatar

Adam Langdon

  • Posts: 332
  • Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:15 pm
  • Location: Ohio USA

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostWed Mar 28, 2018 8:11 pm

timbutt2 wrote:
If you ask me this new Canon C700 FF is an overpriced waste. The ARRI ALEXA LF is definitely better by a long shot. And, if Blackmagic did do an URSA Mini Full Frame Sensor Camera I guarantee it would do RAW internally and have far better recording options. Either way, we're definitely going to see more Full Frame cameras in the near future.


The only way i see FF for BMD is in the Big URSA body. Full Frame seems like it's a bigger commitment all around.
Ursa Mini Pro - Pocket 6K - Vintage Russian Glass - Kowa 16H + HCDNA - 1/4 Black Pro Mist
Offline
User avatar

carlomacchiavello

  • Posts: 1037
  • Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:04 pm
  • Location: italy

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostWed Mar 28, 2018 9:01 pm

Michael Odhiambo wrote:
carlomacchiavello wrote:My hope is simple, no more cameras.....

sorry bro. Canon disappointed you


I mean about BMD :-D
other brand can produce any cameras as want, i cannot afford them :-P
Offline
User avatar

timbutt2

  • Posts: 1537
  • Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:32 am

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostWed Mar 28, 2018 9:50 pm

Adam Langdon wrote:The only way i see FF for BMD is in the Big URSA body. Full Frame seems like it's a bigger commitment all around.

The Big URSA body might be the right form factor for Full Frame or even 65mm Sensor Size. However, I think the URSA body will be modified to take some of the things that were added to the URSA Mini & URSA Mini Pro.

No matter what, we just have to wait and see what Blackmagic Design does next.
"I'm well trained in the art of turning **** to gold." - Tim Buttner (timbutt2)

Cameras: URSA Mini Pro G2, URSA Mini 4.6K EF & Cinema Camera 2.5K EF
Computers: iMac 5K (Late 2015) & MacBook Pro Retina 15.4in (Mid 2018)
Offline

FrankApollonio

  • Posts: 215
  • Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:13 pm

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostWed Mar 28, 2018 11:31 pm

timbutt2 wrote:
Adam Langdon wrote:The only way i see FF for BMD is in the Big URSA body. Full Frame seems like it's a bigger commitment all around.

The Big URSA body might be the right form factor for Full Frame or even 65mm Sensor Size. However, I think the URSA body will be modified to take some of the things that were added to the URSA Mini & URSA Mini Pro.

No matter what, we just have to wait and see what Blackmagic Design does next.


stills cameras are full frame why would it need to be the ursa body? i think they could fit a FF in mini body no question. there only going to get better and building cameras.
Offline

John Brawley

  • Posts: 2362
  • Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:57 am
  • Location: London UK

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostWed Mar 28, 2018 11:59 pm

Full frame in cinematography is 135 or Vistavision.

Originally it was sometimes called colloquially “miniature format” or “small format” because you had large format and medium format.

Thank you.

JB
John Brawley
Cinematographer
London UK
Offline
User avatar

timbutt2

  • Posts: 1537
  • Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:32 am

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostThu Mar 29, 2018 1:46 am

John Brawley wrote:Full frame in cinematography is 135 or Vistavision.

Originally it was sometimes called colloquially “miniature format” or “small format” because you had large format and medium format.

Thank you.

JB

Yes, and traditionally Vistavision has been used in the past for VFX plates. Either 35mm Vistavision or 65mm in some instances.

For example Star Wars (1977) used Vistavision for the Death Star Trench Run.

Bruce Logan wrote:"We shot 35mm spherical at about 120 FPS [frames per second] and VistaVision high-speed at 110 FPS.”
- http://www.starwars.com/news/bruce-loga ... death-star
"I'm well trained in the art of turning **** to gold." - Tim Buttner (timbutt2)

Cameras: URSA Mini Pro G2, URSA Mini 4.6K EF & Cinema Camera 2.5K EF
Computers: iMac 5K (Late 2015) & MacBook Pro Retina 15.4in (Mid 2018)
Offline
User avatar

Adam Langdon

  • Posts: 332
  • Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:15 pm
  • Location: Ohio USA

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostThu Mar 29, 2018 1:57 am

Last thing I’ll “ask for” .....
A ‘PHOTO’ option for UMP. I’ve used stills from my videos as photos for other things, and I would love a simple (mappable) button.
Ursa Mini Pro - Pocket 6K - Vintage Russian Glass - Kowa 16H + HCDNA - 1/4 Black Pro Mist
Offline

Jason Montalvo

  • Posts: 19
  • Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:11 am

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostThu Mar 29, 2018 2:46 am

Adam Langdon wrote:Last thing I’ll “ask for” .....
A ‘PHOTO’ option for UMP. I’ve used stills from my videos as photos for other things, and I would love a simple (mappable) button.


There's a still button on the back side of your lcd for taking photos. Or do you mean further support?
Offline
User avatar

Clayton Von Isaacs

  • Posts: 241
  • Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:43 pm

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostThu Mar 29, 2018 8:48 am

timbutt2 wrote:
John Brawley wrote:Full frame in cinematography is 135 or Vistavision.

Originally it was sometimes called colloquially “miniature format” or “small format” because you had large format and medium format.

Thank you.

JB

Yes, and traditionally Vistavision has been used in the past for VFX plates. Either 35mm Vistavision or 65mm in some instances.

For example Star Wars (1977) used Vistavision for the Death Star Trench Run.

Bruce Logan wrote:"We shot 35mm spherical at about 120 FPS [frames per second] and VistaVision high-speed at 110 FPS.”
- http://www.starwars.com/news/bruce-loga ... death-star

Ilm used Vistavision for all their shooing. Reason why is when you shoot miniatures, etc in front of a blue screen you have to optically compost all that footage (3 color seperations, hold out mattes, garbage mattes, etc) on an optical printer onto 35 mill film. When you do optical compositing with the many passes they had to do (Jedi had a shot with I believe 300 passes in the optical printer) the film grain from all those plates in the final composition gets bigger. That is why you see some movies from the 60's and 70's where the EFX shots look grainy with grain the size of golf balls. So ILM shot on Vista vision so the film grain is smaller in the frame since the vista vision fame is much larger than 35 mill since the film is ran sideways in the camera, but the film stock grain remains the same size. So after all those composites, the grain is manageable. Other EFX houses Like Doug Trumbles EEG which then became BOSS EFX used a 65 mill camera and optical printer for that same reason. it was to manage grain. But every plate ILM shot in the photochemical period, and even at the start of the digital period was on Vistavision and all the other EFX companies either shot vista vision or 65 Mill. watch this video and it will explain to you why they had to shoot on either Vistavision or 65 mil

Last edited by Clayton Von Isaacs on Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Clayton Von Isaacs
daydreamersproductions.com
Offline
User avatar

Adam Langdon

  • Posts: 332
  • Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:15 pm
  • Location: Ohio USA

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostThu Mar 29, 2018 1:31 pm

Jason Montalvo wrote:
Adam Langdon wrote:Last thing I’ll “ask for” .....
A ‘PHOTO’ option for UMP. I’ve used stills from my videos as photos for other things, and I would love a simple (mappable) button.


There's a still button on the back side of your lcd for taking photos. Or do you mean further support?



haha, wow, i didn't even notice! (i'm still waiting on my UMP in the mail today!)
Ursa Mini Pro - Pocket 6K - Vintage Russian Glass - Kowa 16H + HCDNA - 1/4 Black Pro Mist
Offline

Michael Odhiambo

  • Posts: 150
  • Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:27 pm

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostThu Mar 29, 2018 1:57 pm

carlomacchiavello wrote:
Michael Odhiambo wrote:
carlomacchiavello wrote:My hope is simple, no more cameras.....

sorry bro. Canon disappointed you


I mean about BMD :-D
other brand can produce any cameras as want, i cannot afford them :-P


Makes two of us. 33,000 can be a down payment a 3 bedroom apartment in Kenya. Another 67,000 and I stop paying rent.
Offline

Michael Odhiambo

  • Posts: 150
  • Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:27 pm

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostThu Mar 29, 2018 7:18 pm

RED with their dual sensitivity GEMINI sensor. NAB will be a sensor race. Either Extended DR/EI, dual ISO sensors or beyond 135 sizes.

Offline
User avatar

timbutt2

  • Posts: 1537
  • Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:32 am

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostThu Mar 29, 2018 7:36 pm

Michael Odhiambo wrote:RED with their dual sensitivity GEMINI sensor. NAB will be a sensor race. Either Extended DR/EI, dual ISO sensors or beyond 135 sizes.


Yeah, I saw that earlier this week. It's cool. However, RED is RED so it comes with all the usual caveats of buying into the RED ecosystem.

Right now the best announcement before NAB was the ARRI ALEXA LF.
"I'm well trained in the art of turning **** to gold." - Tim Buttner (timbutt2)

Cameras: URSA Mini Pro G2, URSA Mini 4.6K EF & Cinema Camera 2.5K EF
Computers: iMac 5K (Late 2015) & MacBook Pro Retina 15.4in (Mid 2018)
Offline

Michael Odhiambo

  • Posts: 150
  • Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:27 pm

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostThu Mar 29, 2018 8:02 pm

BM don't want to take my money this NAB? How insulting.
Offline
User avatar

Xtreemtec

  • Posts: 4471
  • Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:48 am
  • Location: The Netherlands

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostFri Mar 30, 2018 11:38 am

Oh sure they want.. But they already put on the table what they got in Februari.. ;) I don't expect a lot of new things.. More like software updates on excisting gear / software (resolve)
And i really hope they have the Shading panel out in the open for the first time..

If so and people going.. Please take some pictures and video.. Test it and tell us what you think.. :D
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
Offline
User avatar

Clayton Von Isaacs

  • Posts: 241
  • Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:43 pm

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostFri Mar 30, 2018 7:35 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:Oh sure they want.. But they already put on the table what they got in Februari.. ;) I don't expect a lot of new things.. More like software updates on excisting gear / software (resolve)
And i really hope they have the Shading panel out in the open for the first time..

If so and people going.. Please take some pictures and video.. Test it and tell us what you think.. :D

Whats this shading panel I keep hearing about?
Clayton Von Isaacs
daydreamersproductions.com
Offline
User avatar

Xtreemtec

  • Posts: 4471
  • Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:48 am
  • Location: The Netherlands

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostFri Mar 30, 2018 8:42 pm

Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
Offline
User avatar

Clayton Von Isaacs

  • Posts: 241
  • Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:43 pm

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostFri Mar 30, 2018 8:46 pm


Why they keep calling I a shading panel when they call it ATEM camera control panel?
Clayton Von Isaacs
daydreamersproductions.com
Offline

MelFeliciano

  • Posts: 22
  • Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:05 pm

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostSat Mar 31, 2018 2:52 pm

I don't expect Blackmagic to bring to NAB a Full Sensor camera this year, but with the announcement of the Red Gemini sensor in addition to last year Panasonic EVA1, dual iso sensitivity seems to be a new trend.
Last edited by MelFeliciano on Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Offline

Leon Benzakein

  • Posts: 1049
  • Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:40 pm

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostSat Mar 31, 2018 3:21 pm

Clayton Von Isaacs wrote:Why they keep calling I a shading panel when they call it ATEM camera control panel?


shad·ing
ˈSHādiNG/Submit
noun
noun: shading
1.
the darkening or coloring of an illustration or diagram with parallel lines or a block of color.
a very slight variation, typically in color

Through the fog of time I remember the video engineers in the OB truck talking about shading the image.
It is a term used in broadcast TV that describes the adjustment of the iris, black, chroma and luminance levels using the CCUs(camera control units) so that all the cameras on a multi-cam shoot have the same look. Hence Atem camera control panel.
Television: Lighting/Cameraman, O.B. Camera Operator, Experience in EFP, EPG and ENG , Grip, Lamp Operator
Film: Grip, Lamp Operator
Theater: Lighting Designer, Light board Operator, Stage Electrician, Stage Management
Offline
User avatar

Clayton Von Isaacs

  • Posts: 241
  • Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:43 pm

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostSat Mar 31, 2018 4:17 pm

Leon Benzakein wrote:
Clayton Von Isaacs wrote:Why they keep calling I a shading panel when they call it ATEM camera control panel?


shad·ing
ˈSHādiNG/Submit
noun
noun: shading
1.
the darkening or coloring of an illustration or diagram with parallel lines or a block of color.
a very slight variation, typically in color

Through the fog of time I remember the video engineers in the OB truck talking about shading the image.
It is a term used in broadcast TV that describes the adjustment of the iris, black, chroma and luminance levels using the CCUs(camera control units) so that all the cameras on a multi-cam shoot have the same look. Hence Atem camera control panel.

I know what the word shading means. I am just wondering why everyone was calling it that and not what its actually called.
Clayton Von Isaacs
daydreamersproductions.com
Offline

Wayne Steven

  • Posts: 2836
  • Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:58 am
  • Location: Earth
  • Warnings: 1

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostSun Apr 01, 2018 3:21 pm

Clayton Von Isaacs wrote:


>You are missing the point. Yes they used the 5D one time on house for a point as John pointed out. They used it on 24 a a crash cam.They also used it onsite movies as a crash cam

I was taking about a number of productions when I wrote about that, House was only an example. Yet nobody asked themselves why they didn't use another small camera? The Canon was a legend at that time (hype) among low end people because of the image (I didn't buy into that, because if the video and line skipping). But if various people's world is too small to incorporate those people.

> They believe in only providing a RAW image for you to manipulate in post. Stated it millions of times.

Yet they have multiple cameras aimed at the TV daily production market, which definitely is not raw, and definitely compressed.

Ever hear of "group think". It pays not to argue just to have a go at somebody. People land up starting to argue against valid things the other says

> They worked hard on getting a compressed visually lossless RAW only because of SSD and storage limitations at the time.

Yes, I know, I corresponded with them suggesting how to do it. I don't know what technical solution they used eventually, but the initial suggestion I gave was a simple one to get lossless at moderate rates (less than 2:1). It's rather like a movie, most people see a great movie and maybe credit the director, and the main actors, but forget all the little people that actually made up the quality. I don't think I have never heard anybody here give credit to the technical people/leads who actually made it happen (including my mate if he's working there). Same thing with doing demo footage.

> everyone cried for a low cost RAW camera. BM delivered.

The only time BM has ever delivered a (real) low cost film camera is when they discounted the pocket to under $500.

Now, it is pointless to honestly waste my time against hero worship.

Frank Glencairn wrote:
John Brawley wrote:
Grant hates compression.

They're never ever going to make a compressed only video camera. Compression isn't pro.

JB


I second that.

Uncompressed video (and outstanding signal quality) was the whole point..


Frank you do realise that compression includes lossless and near lossless (basically can be used for high end visually lossless)? You realise these things have been used professionally for a long time for quality? Even today uncompressed 4k+ workflows are a real stumbling block for storage, not so much in speed of newer technology, but in price. So isn't it right to have options fur others? I could use the same arguments used here by others to insist everybody should buy 8k weapon vistas or Arii's instead. But I don't think that it's honest to cut everybody else out.

John Brawley wrote:


> No.

> In 2010 it was because this was a very small camera that could allow narrative style drama shooting. In that episode the story called for a very physically small camera.

John, read what I wrote to Clayton. Nobody asks why they didn't use another small camera! This camera was the fad of the time to try due to it's picture quality, which had a lot to do with the sensor. They didn't use a cheaper camera.

> If it was really for the way it looked then they would keep shooting it.

Seriously, they Only gave it a try over other cameras in that episode and went back to shooting regular workflow. What would make you think they would give up shooting regular for a line skipping mess. Look, I've got pocket caneras you could shoot documentaries on at 6Mb/s h264 720p60 because the sensor image is way better than many cheap cameras of the day, and do is the codec. I was waiting in front of a finishing line one day, and decided to shoot the starlings just in front of me darting about like a race car. I could track them. I wondered what I would get at 6mb/s. In the view finder I could just see dark macro blocks where the starlings were. I was a bit disappointed I didn't get anything toshiw their flight. But reviewing the footage on a PC afterwards, they had perfectly preserved shape in flight Amazing at up to 6mb/s, no wonder that version of h264 became widely used (I had published some stuff on image quality retention, and shared it with the chipsets VPE and in the industry). Anyway, horses fir courses, and I'm not advocating 6mb/s 720p60 as a good acquisition format.

> I don't determine what BMD chooses to make. I'm just telling you what I know from having consulted and worked with them since before they made cameras.

And as business person and a designer, I'm pragmatically pointing to where the market starts and lays, and what is possible over no codec at all micro studio, and in muchh smaller cameras today. It is an extra feature, and something that can be used if the fpga won't allow any compression/uncompressed in a small camera. Funny the microstudio does't have raw uncompreased to add. That could be done though an external interface.

I think the truth is they either have plans to mitigate the coming competition, or they don't. If craft had released it would have been serious. The pragmatist plans for the future, to avoid business downturn, and listens to however can help legally and morally (hope) avoid that

> We haven't even started this revolution properly because the same big box companies STILL don't make cheap RAW cameras.

In business speak it's a practice of stratification. They want you to pay more for raw, so they give you overpriced h264 in compromised cameras and more for less compromised cameras for daily use. As long as BM etc doesn't answer the trio or so, of dancing elephants in the room, the niave will go along over paying for compromised cameras in h264, and spending a lot more for better cameras just to get propperly daily filming, and low end, utility. The production and broadcast approach this, but for $1000-$2000 they could out do the fixed lens ones to the extent of the broadcast. If they don't do it, somebody else could with raw uncompressed/lossless as well.

> I want BMD to continue to innovate, not to do what others already do and make cameras that are only compressed.

What innovation. Apart from pay a sensor maker to design the 4.6k, it is a lot of packaging, sizing, shaping products and conventional technology design. It is the intent and destination that matters and they are famous for that, with a suitable quality

> I want a camera that does not limit me.

Look, many cameras can be made to do raw Bayer uncompressed like that, even $1 camera. But you pay for the storage costs and many cheap parts are setup not to output this. So basically a camera, even with h264, can be made to have uncompressed Bayer out. So, a sub $1k camera outputting 4kp50 16 bit is 800 MB/s you have to fork out cards for likely in array at the moment. So the normal 4:1 visually lossless like compression would be welcome. That may add more price even using a cheaper solution. So, once you go up your cheaper options go down. So, 8k $1000 small sensor should be possible, for example, if you can get a contract for the sensor (limited options). However doing compressed wavelet raw Bayer maybe done without a custom ASIC, but there are limited lower end solutions with enough horsepower that can be programmed, and it's a matter of getting a contract, which might not happen. So, 8k with your uncompressed raw Bayer might be possible at 1200 (12 bit p25)-3200 (16 bit p50) mega bytes per second. So unless you buy an expensive camera setup it is likely a cheap option needs compression equivalent to 200 MByte/s - 75 MByte/s.
aIf you are not truthfully progressive, maybe you shouldn't say anything
bTruthful side topics in-line with or related to, the discussion accepted
cOften people deceive themselves so much they do not understand, even when the truth is explained to them
Offline
User avatar

Xtreemtec

  • Posts: 4471
  • Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:48 am
  • Location: The Netherlands

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostSun Apr 01, 2018 6:09 pm

Clayton Von Isaacs wrote:I know what the word shading means. I am just wondering why everyone was calling it that and not what its actually called.

Because all broadcast engineers call it shading panels or RCP's (Remote Control Panels) Why BMD does stick a different name to it.. :P We will keep calling it Shading haha
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
Offline
User avatar

Clayton Von Isaacs

  • Posts: 241
  • Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:43 pm

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostSun Apr 01, 2018 7:10 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:
Clayton Von Isaacs wrote:I know what the word shading means. I am just wondering why everyone was calling it that and not what its actually called.

Because all broadcast engineers call it shading panels or RCP's (Remote Control Panels) Why BMD does stick a different name to it.. :P We will keep calling it Shading haha

ahhhh
Clayton Von Isaacs
daydreamersproductions.com
Offline

Andreas Caemmerer

  • Posts: 21
  • Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:07 pm

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostSun Apr 01, 2018 7:50 pm

Adam Langdon wrote:Last thing I’ll “ask for” .....
A ‘PHOTO’ option for UMP. I’ve used stills from my videos as photos for other things, and I would love a simple (mappable) button.


Would be great to have a button within the iOS remote app.
Offline

Howard Roll

  • Posts: 688
  • Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:50 am

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostSun Apr 01, 2018 11:53 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:
Clayton Von Isaacs wrote:I know what the word shading means. I am just wondering why everyone was calling it that and not what its actually called.

Because all broadcast engineers call it shading panels or RCP's (Remote Control Panels) Why BMD does stick a different name to it.. :P We will keep calling it Shading haha


Well it is technically an Atem panel, it doesn't control the camera it controls the switcher. Would have been cool if these could control the cameras directly. Maybe, it will someday control the fiber converters without the need for an Atem. BM is moonwalking their way into the broadcast camera arena.
Offline

Leon Benzakein

  • Posts: 1049
  • Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:40 pm

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostMon Apr 02, 2018 1:51 am

W
Howard Roll wrote:Well it is technically an Atem panel, it doesn't control the camera it controls the switcher.


What is connected to the Atem switcher?

Sausages?
Television: Lighting/Cameraman, O.B. Camera Operator, Experience in EFP, EPG and ENG , Grip, Lamp Operator
Film: Grip, Lamp Operator
Theater: Lighting Designer, Light board Operator, Stage Electrician, Stage Management
Offline
User avatar

Xtreemtec

  • Posts: 4471
  • Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:48 am
  • Location: The Netherlands

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostMon Apr 02, 2018 9:25 am

It is Indeed a hardware surface that controls the shading Side of the Atem switchers. And Then the Atem Will send the commands to the camera’s..
guess one day we Will see Some converters or upgrade by BMD to do this directly.. But with the current talkback converters it wont happen.. they don’t have a network connection.

Maybe the New SMPTE fiber converter Will 1 day support this. But it is all up to BMD if they Will unlock this function.
I do think if they want to really Go into the broadcast world with there camera and fiber converter. They need to open this up. Because a lot of real broadcast companies Will never run an Atem. Just because they are too Damn stuck on GVG or Sony mixers. Which are the leading mixers in all broadcast trailers.
Mixers that have 4 me’s by default, have 26 assignable outputs, etc.. mixers that cost 100K :lol:

But let them first finnish the panel, fix the stuttering iris issue on the ursa pro and Broadcast versions. Then we Will see what the future Will bring. I do think that BMD needs to keep listening very carefull to the broadcasters to what they have to say About the product. And when possible fix that in software at short time base. Because if they now spend too much time to fix or implement Things. I have a gut feelin the whole broadcast world looses faith in the product and Will Go for alternatives..

It is just a wait and see. But anyone attending NAB? Please check if the panel is there and check the functions if they work quite good as you would expect.
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
Offline
User avatar

timbutt2

  • Posts: 1537
  • Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:32 am

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostMon Apr 02, 2018 9:58 pm

NAB is close now. April 7th is when it starts and April 9th is when Exhibits open. So we're one week away roughly from any news regarding Blackmagic Design products. My hope is that DaVinci Resolve 15 is available for public beta next week.
"I'm well trained in the art of turning **** to gold." - Tim Buttner (timbutt2)

Cameras: URSA Mini Pro G2, URSA Mini 4.6K EF & Cinema Camera 2.5K EF
Computers: iMac 5K (Late 2015) & MacBook Pro Retina 15.4in (Mid 2018)
Offline
User avatar

Rakesh Malik

  • Posts: 2848
  • Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:01 am
  • Location: Lynnwood, WA

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostMon Apr 02, 2018 10:03 pm

It would be quite a break from BMD's pattern to NOT release a beta of Resolve's next version at NAB. :)

The big announcements will be happening at the press conference right before the exhibit floor opens on Monday. I'll try to get some pictures of Grant making those announcements with my Light L16. I apologize in advance for only having 52 megapixels available. ;)
Rakesh Malik
Cinematographer, photographer, adventurer, martial artist
http://WinterLight.studio
System:
Asus ZenBook Pro Duo i9 Octacore/32GB/2060

Alienware M15 Hexacore i7/32GB/1070 Max-Q
Online
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 13400
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostMon Apr 02, 2018 10:10 pm

Rakesh, how many fps?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Rick Lang
Offline
User avatar

Rakesh Malik

  • Posts: 2848
  • Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:01 am
  • Location: Lynnwood, WA

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostMon Apr 02, 2018 10:12 pm

rick.lang wrote:Rakesh, how many fps?


Not enough ;)

IIRC the burst mode is limited to something like 3 or 5 shots, but they're 180 MB apiece so I don't shoot burst unless I have to... :ugeek:
Rakesh Malik
Cinematographer, photographer, adventurer, martial artist
http://WinterLight.studio
System:
Asus ZenBook Pro Duo i9 Octacore/32GB/2060

Alienware M15 Hexacore i7/32GB/1070 Max-Q
Online
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 13400
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostMon Apr 02, 2018 10:31 pm

You know the closer we get to BMD Day, the quieter we become as we hold our collective breath. Will there be another email from Grant delivered just before or just after? Will
BMD Day be postponed? Will there be or ?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Rick Lang
Offline
User avatar

Rakesh Malik

  • Posts: 2848
  • Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:01 am
  • Location: Lynnwood, WA

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostMon Apr 02, 2018 10:35 pm

rick.lang wrote:You know the closer we get to BMD Day, the quieter we become as we hold our collective breath.


I think by now everyone's pretty much assuming that any more announcements from BMD will be coming from NAB.

Will there be or ?


Yes, I'm sure there will. ;)
Rakesh Malik
Cinematographer, photographer, adventurer, martial artist
http://WinterLight.studio
System:
Asus ZenBook Pro Duo i9 Octacore/32GB/2060

Alienware M15 Hexacore i7/32GB/1070 Max-Q
Online
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 13400
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostMon Apr 02, 2018 10:41 pm

or ?

Translation: The Wizard of Oz or Cinderfella?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Rick Lang
Offline

Howard Roll

  • Posts: 688
  • Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:50 am

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostMon Apr 02, 2018 11:17 pm

Cinderfella? Is that a size 13 glass slipper.
Offline
User avatar

timbutt2

  • Posts: 1537
  • Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:32 am

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostTue Apr 03, 2018 7:07 pm

No support for Compressed CinemaDNG RAW in Premiere Pro updates. Overall, I'm pretty underwhelmed with the Adobe announced updates. Maybe the data improvements for After Effects are good, but otherwise most of the announcements were "yawn" worthy. I think Resolve got more last year.

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/04/03/ad ... miere-pro/
https://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/features.html
https://www.adobe.com/products/aftereff ... tures.html
"I'm well trained in the art of turning **** to gold." - Tim Buttner (timbutt2)

Cameras: URSA Mini Pro G2, URSA Mini 4.6K EF & Cinema Camera 2.5K EF
Computers: iMac 5K (Late 2015) & MacBook Pro Retina 15.4in (Mid 2018)
Offline
User avatar

Rakesh Malik

  • Posts: 2848
  • Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:01 am
  • Location: Lynnwood, WA

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostTue Apr 03, 2018 7:09 pm

I'm not really surprised... most of Adobe's updates lately have been pretty minor, while BMD's have mostly been pretty major. I suspect that Resolve will start to overtake Premiere in editing, particularly since it's already drawing studios off of Avid!
Rakesh Malik
Cinematographer, photographer, adventurer, martial artist
http://WinterLight.studio
System:
Asus ZenBook Pro Duo i9 Octacore/32GB/2060

Alienware M15 Hexacore i7/32GB/1070 Max-Q
Offline
User avatar

Clayton Von Isaacs

  • Posts: 241
  • Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:43 pm

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostWed Apr 04, 2018 12:24 am

timbutt2 wrote:No support for Compressed CinemaDNG RAW in Premiere Pro updates. Overall, I'm pretty underwhelmed with the Adobe announced updates. Maybe the data improvements for After Effects are good, but otherwise most of the announcements were "yawn" worthy. I think Resolve got more last year.

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/04/03/ad ... miere-pro/
https://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/features.html
https://www.adobe.com/products/aftereff ... tures.html

It's funny how they created cinema DNG and yet.
Clayton Von Isaacs
daydreamersproductions.com
Offline

Savannah Miller

  • Posts: 161
  • Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:02 pm

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostWed Apr 04, 2018 12:40 am

I believe the URSA turret is going to be showcased at NAB. The reason I say this is I saw a website the other day claiming they had it IN STOCK and that would suggest maybe they recieved some and decided to list early.


Edit: https://proflixsales.com/bmpursaturr46k ... hiEALw_wcB

This is the website.
Offline

David Peterson

  • Posts: 272
  • Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:45 am
  • Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostWed Apr 04, 2018 1:34 am

Aaron Green wrote:I couldn't care less about 6K, but I would really love to see an "open-gate" type sensor option for anamorphic. Maybe large format like Kinefinity is releasing. Honestly though, the Ursa Mini Pro is still nearly perfect IMO.


Kinefinity, Arri, Canon, RED all have LF, is BMD next?

I'd also like to see BMD do dual ISO like Panasonic and Kinefinity have done (and now, RED as well with Gemini).
http://IronFilm.co.nz/Sound/
https://www.youtube.com/c/SoundSpeeding
Location Sound Recordist, in Auckland New Zealand.
Offline
User avatar

timbutt2

  • Posts: 1537
  • Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:32 am

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostWed Apr 04, 2018 1:55 am

timbutt2 wrote:No support for Compressed CinemaDNG RAW in Premiere Pro updates. Overall, I'm pretty underwhelmed with the Adobe announced updates. Maybe the data improvements for After Effects are good, but otherwise most of the announcements were "yawn" worthy. I think Resolve got more last year.

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/04/03/ad ... miere-pro/
https://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/features.html
https://www.adobe.com/products/aftereff ... tures.html

I want to add that I got a chance to look at the updates more. The After Effects updates and Motion Graphics updates for Premiere are the only thing that made me happy. Those are mainly improvements that I expected to see happen. Premiere and After Effects is still best when it comes to graphics and the graphics integration.

The thing that makes me laugh the most is that when you look at the new color features of Premiere Pro is that Resolve has had those features for years. Adobe is trying to compete with Resolve on the color front, and yet they are no where close to where Resolve is.

My prediction is this year the edit improvements in Resolve and the audio improvements in Fairlight will give Adobe and Avid a run for their money. Then next year Resolve can add a ton of Graphics features and even more integration with Fusion so that they overtake Premiere & After Effects completely.
"I'm well trained in the art of turning **** to gold." - Tim Buttner (timbutt2)

Cameras: URSA Mini Pro G2, URSA Mini 4.6K EF & Cinema Camera 2.5K EF
Computers: iMac 5K (Late 2015) & MacBook Pro Retina 15.4in (Mid 2018)
Offline
User avatar

Rakesh Malik

  • Posts: 2848
  • Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:01 am
  • Location: Lynnwood, WA

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostWed Apr 04, 2018 3:16 am

timbutt2 wrote:The thing that makes me laugh the most is that when you look at the new color features of Premiere Pro is that Resolve has had those features for years. Adobe is trying to compete with Resolve on the color front, and yet they are no where close to where Resolve is.


Adobe doesn't understand color or what colorists need in order to do their job, so Premiere is probably never going to compete with any color grading solution in that department.

My prediction is this year the edit improvements in Resolve and the audio improvements in Fairlight will give Adobe and Avid a run for their money. Then next year Resolve can add a ton of Graphics features and even more integration with Fusion so that they overtake Premiere & After Effects completely.


It's already giving Avid a run for its money. That's why there's now a Media Composer First... that exists because Avid sees the writing on the wall, which is that the BMD juggernaut is a major competitor with hardware subsidized pricing.
Rakesh Malik
Cinematographer, photographer, adventurer, martial artist
http://WinterLight.studio
System:
Asus ZenBook Pro Duo i9 Octacore/32GB/2060

Alienware M15 Hexacore i7/32GB/1070 Max-Q
Offline
User avatar

Robert Niessner

  • Posts: 2954
  • Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:51 am
  • Location: Graz, Austria

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostWed Apr 04, 2018 8:27 am

Rakesh Malik wrote:Adobe doesn't understand color or what colorists need in order to do their job, so Premiere is probably never going to compete with any color grading solution in that department.


It seems Adobe doesn't understand a lot how things work.
It took them 16 years to ditch their crappy title designer in Premiere Pro which hadn't been updated since the release of Premiere Pro 1.0. BTW, if you create a title with that you are stuck with the resolution of whatever you had at the time of creation. You can't change it afterwards.

It took them forever to improve the audio filters and FCS you cannot save a preset for audio filters used in the audio mixer panel. Sometimes I sit in front of Premiere Pro and still can't believe all those programming design decisions. A bug when trying to export 5.1 audio prevents you from getting the .1 channel right - luckily there is a weird workaround. I don't know if this has been finally fixed.
You can export a 3840x1600 DNxHR MXF without a problem, but it sets the PAR incorrectly and if you are trying to import the file it can't be read and throws an error. Yet any other program can import the file.

Reported bugs seem to get stuck somewhere in a kind of heavy bureaucracy. I understand you have to have priorities but not ironing them out for decades?

As soon as I see what Resolve 15 brings on the editing table and I get hands on some good workshops I will kiss Adobe a well-earned goodbye.
Robert Niessner
LAUFBILDkommission
Graz / Austria
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Blackmagic Camera Blog (German):
http://laufbildkommission.wordpress.com

Read the blog in English via Google Translate:
http://tinyurl.com/pjf6a3m
Offline
User avatar

Rakesh Malik

  • Posts: 2848
  • Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:01 am
  • Location: Lynnwood, WA

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostWed Apr 04, 2018 8:34 pm

Robert Niessner wrote:
Rakesh Malik wrote:Adobe doesn't understand color or what colorists need in order to do their job, so Premiere is probably never going to compete with any color grading solution in that department.


It seems Adobe doesn't understand a lot how things work.
It took them 16 years to ditch their crappy title designer in Premiere Pro which hadn't been updated since the release of Premiere Pro 1.0. BTW, if you create a title with that you are stuck with the resolution of whatever you had at the time of creation. You can't change it afterwards.

It took them forever to improve the audio filters and FCS you cannot save a preset for audio filters used in the audio mixer panel. Sometimes I sit in front of Premiere Pro and still can't believe all those programming design decisions. A bug when trying to export 5.1 audio prevents you from getting the .1 channel right - luckily there is a weird workaround. I don't know if this has been finally fixed.
You can export a 3840x1600 DNxHR MXF without a problem, but it sets the PAR incorrectly and if you are trying to import the file it can't be read and throws an error. Yet any other program can import the file.

Reported bugs seem to get stuck somewhere in a kind of heavy bureaucracy. I understand you have to have priorities but not ironing them out for decades?

As soon as I see what Resolve 15 brings on the editing table and I get hands on some good workshops I will kiss Adobe a well-earned goodbye.
Truth be told, every time I'm forced to use Premiere I start wondering why so many people actually like it. It's so full of usability bugs that it's baffling. And I've yet to get a clean conform from Premiere into any color grade suite. Lightworks on the other hand has been nearly flawless in that arena.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Rakesh Malik
Cinematographer, photographer, adventurer, martial artist
http://WinterLight.studio
System:
Asus ZenBook Pro Duo i9 Octacore/32GB/2060

Alienware M15 Hexacore i7/32GB/1070 Max-Q
Offline
User avatar

timbutt2

  • Posts: 1537
  • Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:32 am

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostThu Apr 05, 2018 3:35 am

Rakesh Malik wrote:Truth be told, every time I'm forced to use Premiere I start wondering why so many people actually like it. It's so full of usability bugs that it's baffling. And I've yet to get a clean conform from Premiere into any color grade suite. Lightworks on the other hand has been nearly flawless in that arena.

I can tell you why so many people like it. It all goes back to when everyone was using Final Cut Pro. So many people loved FCP. I was one of them. However, when FCP X came every one decided it was time to ditch FCP for something else. Premiere Pro stepped into that place. Why?

I was using After Effects the whole time I was a FCP editor. In fact, I started on Premiere first in high school and went to FCP in high school because that was what everyone was really using. But I stuck with After Effects, and everyone else also used After Effects for their motion-graphics/VFX. Thus when everyone made the switch to Premiere after FCP X came out it was a great change due to Dynamic Linking with After Effects. That was one of the biggest reasons for me.

However, over the years I've found Adobe's issues have outweighed the convenience of having that dynamic link feature. They've kept adding features and not improved the coded holding the program together. The performance has lagged. Enter DaVinci Resolve.

As I said, Premiere was what I started on in high school (2003), then I switched to Final Cut (2004-2011), and then back to Premiere (2012-2015). So in all that time it was still a non-linear editor. Resolve has only been a non-linear editor for 3-Years. In 2016 I did use Premiere Pro occasionally, but I had mainly switched to Resolve by then. Either way, there is about 15-years worth of life with Premiere being available to me, even if in 8 of those years I was using FCP, and in all that span many people have also had access to it.

I hope this explains why Premiere became so popular.
"I'm well trained in the art of turning **** to gold." - Tim Buttner (timbutt2)

Cameras: URSA Mini Pro G2, URSA Mini 4.6K EF & Cinema Camera 2.5K EF
Computers: iMac 5K (Late 2015) & MacBook Pro Retina 15.4in (Mid 2018)
Offline
User avatar

timbutt2

  • Posts: 1537
  • Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:32 am

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostThu Apr 05, 2018 2:32 pm

Image
Saw this photo shared on Facebook today. To be clear it’s not mine. But…

OMG! I’m so excited!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"I'm well trained in the art of turning **** to gold." - Tim Buttner (timbutt2)

Cameras: URSA Mini Pro G2, URSA Mini 4.6K EF & Cinema Camera 2.5K EF
Computers: iMac 5K (Late 2015) & MacBook Pro Retina 15.4in (Mid 2018)
Offline

Oli Koos

  • Posts: 194
  • Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:29 am

Re: Okay I will start it - NAB 2018 Predictions

PostThu Apr 05, 2018 3:13 pm

timbutt2 wrote:Image
Saw this photo shared on Facebook today. To be clear it’s not mine. But…

OMG! I’m so excited!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



OMG YES!!!
PreviousNext

Return to Cinematography

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 34 guests