BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

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Dmitry Shijan

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BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostWed Mar 28, 2018 1:41 pm

:arrow: Time to time i was in communication with users who use external batteries. Based on their requests and suggestions i decide to start new project BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR.

Expected key features:
14.8 voltage same as any common V-Mount Battery.
Usable for heavy duty applications, continuous working current up to 10A
You can choose any 18650 battery cells. 4x quality 18650 battery cells will give you 14.8V 3A (44.4 Watt hours) for $20-25 total.
Clamps directly to camera with passive dummy LP-E6 base.
LP-E6 base can be easy removed and replaced with V-lock base.
Build in 5 metal 1/4"-20 mounting point inserts.
Build in splitter allows to plug multiple devices simultaneously.
Build in capacity meter.
Build in ON/OFF switch.
Perfect cable management.
Low profile gimbal friendly.
Fits exact to width and corner radius of SmallRig Mounting Cheese Plate 1598

Parts used:
4 high quality Li-ion 18650 Battery Cells
SAMSUNG INR18650-30Q http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries20 ... %20UK.html
SONY US18650VTC6 30A http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries20 ... %20UK.html
or PANASONIC/SANYO or LG
4x18650 Battery Holder
4s Li-ion Lithium Battery 18650 Charger Protection Board
4S 16.8V 18650 Lithium Battery Capacity Indicator
3 DC power sockets
DC power switch
VOTO 16.8V 1A DC Charger
Short angle DC cables
Optional inexpensive ($3) Aluminum V-Mount base from ebay

DIY parts still in development:
3D printed LP-E6 mounting clamp
CNC machined/3D printed enclosure parts[/list]

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Last edited by Dmitry Shijan on Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Denny Smith

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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostWed Mar 28, 2018 4:03 pm

Will this also work with a Micro in a Wooden Camera Micro cage, using the E6 Mount?
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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostWed Mar 28, 2018 8:46 pm

Very intrested in this.. Might also be intrested to buy the battery mount part that goes on the camera.. (some 3rd party converter i want to stick to the camera..) :)
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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostFri Mar 30, 2018 5:51 pm

Denny Smith wrote:Will this also work with a Micro in a Wooden Camera Micro cage, using the E6 Mount?
Cheers


Denny, can you measure bottom plate thickness of Wooden Camera Micro Cage to check the compatibility?
Battery dimensions are very tight and it will have only about 1mm free space from the bottom of the SmallRig cage. SmallRig cage bottom plate thickness is 11 mm.
Anyway it will always fit if add bottom short QR plate or rail system to the cage.

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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostSat Mar 31, 2018 5:07 am

Dmitry, just saw your post. I will measure the bottom plate in the morning, and send you the details. Thanks.
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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostSat Mar 31, 2018 5:19 pm

OK Dimtry, the bottom plate thickness on the Wooden Camera Micro Cage is 10mm.
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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostSun Apr 22, 2018 12:34 pm

Ok, great. Here is some final design touch. Also done some changes to internal aluminum frame.

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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostSun Apr 22, 2018 4:44 pm

Looking Good, can not wait to get one! If you want a beta tester, I am in.
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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostMon Apr 23, 2018 1:51 pm

Denny Smith wrote:Looking Good, can not wait to get one! If you want a beta tester, I am in.
Cheers



me too!
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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostMon Apr 23, 2018 4:13 pm

Same here. This is one of the last missing pieces that I need to make my little BMMCC a real beast. Count me in as a beta tester, if you need one.
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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostMon Apr 23, 2018 4:43 pm

Currently i am stuck with electronic components supply shipping delays. Without real life measurements i can not finish drawings and send it to CNC factory. If things goes well, first assembled samples will be available in 4-5 weeks.

Rear shell will be 3D printed from hard rubber material Elastan D70. It is very durable, and shockproof.

I plane to create different mounting plates: LP-E6, Sony L, and V-Mount. All compatible with common cheese plates holes pitch. Mounting plates will be 3D printed. I also plane to share 3D models of those plates for free, so if you break or lost it, or just need additional plate, you can quickly print new part locally.

Just found this https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1181132 So it seems my idea with DIY battery plate printed on simple FDM 3D printer will work well.



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Some final changes in design. New CF-4S30A-A BMS (Battery Management System) board with build-in Balance circuit. Very powerful, not too expensive. It is also designed for better cable management, easer to solder and mount.

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New better battery holders. They have thicker pins and can hold higher load. Overall better quality.

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This is also final design of LP-E6 base plate. As you can see, the plate is slightly different from classic LP-E6 batteries because optimized for 3D printing and for specifics of BMMCC LP-E6 mount plate. It has partial empty cellular structure inside to save some weight and some plastic material during 3D printing.

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Last edited by Dmitry Shijan on Tue May 15, 2018 5:40 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostSun May 13, 2018 8:09 pm

Power consumption measurements:
BMMCC = 7.75W (8.06W during recording)
SmallHD 501 monitor (100% brightness) = 6.9W
Total average power consumption = 15W

Battery Module average output 14.8V x 3.4A = 50Wh (watt-hour)

50Wh : 15W = 3.33 hours total (or average 3 stable working hours until battery voltage drops under 12-13V safe limit)

Voltage meter indicator:
4 LED lights - voltage is greater than 16V
3 LED lights - voltage is greater than 15.2V
2 LED lights - voltage is greater than 14.4V
1 LED light - voltage is greater than 13.6V
No lights - voltage is under 13.6V, but battery still have about 15-20% of usable emergency capacity.
Keep in mind that output voltage varies a lot depending of battery load.
Over discharge protection circuit switches off battery cells only when voltage drops under 10.2V, but to avoid battery cells degradation it is recommended NEVER discharge under 12V.

Battery cells FAQ:
To avoid problems with Air Mail shipping, battery cells will NOT be included in the package. You need to purchase 4x 18650 sized UNPROTECTED lithium-ion battery cells somewhere in your local electronics store. Those battery cells are very common nowadays and will cost about $20-25 total.
Do NOT purchase batteries from unknown sources and unknown online sellers.
Do NOT purchase cheaper 18650 batteries labeled with something crazy like "4000mAh" or more. Those are fake and crap cells.
Do NOT mix different battery cells with different capacity, different brands or different age.

Some useful comparative 18650 battery tests:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=91821
http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries20 ... arator.php


Recommended highest capacity (3400mA) 18650 batteries:

Image SANYO/Panasonic NCR18650GA
BEST CHOICE! Maximum continuous load 10A. Normal charging current 1.675A. Maximum charging current 3.35A. Quality brand, low price, slightly extending positive pin friendly for battery holder. Made in Japan. Released in 2015.

Image Panasonic NCR18650GA
Same as SANYO 20NCR18650GA but made in Panasonic China factory branch.

Image Panasonic NCR18650B
Maximum continuous load 6.7A. Normal charging current 1.625A. Released in 2011.

Image Samsung INR18650-35E
Maximum continuous load 8A. Normal charging current 1.7A. Maximum charging current 2.0A. Released in 2015.

Image SONY US18650VC7
Maximum load 8A. Normal charging current 1.0A. Slightly overpriced compare to others, sometimes hard to find. Released in 2016.

Image LG 18650 MJ1
Maximum continuous load 10A. Normal charging current 1.7A. Maximum charging current 3.4A. Released in 2014.

Recommended lower capacity (3000mA) 18650 batteries:

Image Samsung INR18650-30Q
Maximum continuous load 15A. Normal charging current 1.5A. Maximum charging current 4.0A. Released in 2014.

Image SONY US18650VTC6
Maximum continuous load 15A. Normal charging current 3.0A. Released in 2015.

Charger FAQ:
For request i can add charger to the package, but currently i have very limited amount of chargers with EU plugs in stock.
Any existing 16.8V 1-2A CC/CV (Constant-Current/Constant-Voltage) charger will work.
Some battery cells require 1A, some 1.7A normal charge current. For rapid charging some modern batteries may support maximum current up to 4A, but they may became very hot during that extreme charging. Higher charging current = faster charge = quicker battery degradation, but i think it is not a problem when you can just put new battery cells inside this box after 500 full charge cycles (1-3 years of usage). 2A probably the safest and most optimal speed vs quality charging current. Just to be safe and simple - do NOT use charging current larger than 2A.
Here are nice series of recommended 16.8V chargers. They have recognizable design and quality internal parts. Ask seller for DC plug 5.5x2.1mm and AC plug type depending of your location.

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DC power connectors compatibility FAQ:
It is very odd and irrational, but there are two almost similar DC power connector standards walking between devices all around the world: 5.5mm (outer size) x 2.1mm (inner size) and 5.5mm (outer size) x 2.5mm (inner size).
5.5x2.5mm plug usually fits to 5.5x2.1mm socket but connection may be not too perfect if plug appears too old and outworn.
5.5x2.1mm plug do NOT fits to 5.5x2.5mm socket.
It is better to use plug connectors with inner center spring contact. They better hold center pin mismatches.

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DC input power socket connectors compatibility list:
BMMCC/BMMSC original expansion breakout cable - 5.5x2.5mm
BMCC - 5.5x2.5mm
BM Video Assist - 5.5x2.5mm
BMPCC - 2.5(2.35)x0.7mm
OLR Lite Breakout Box - 5.5x2.5mm

CGPro BMMCC/BMMSC Breakout Box - 5.5x2.1mm
SmallHD 500 series DC Faux LP-E6 Adapter - 5.5x2.1mm
SmallHD DP series - 5.5x2.1mm
All Atomos 7” recorders - 5.5x2.1mm
Angle Breakout Expansion Box by RADIOPROEKTOR - 5.5x2.1mm
Battery Enclosure Module by RADIOPROEKTOR - 5.5x2.1mm
Juicebox Magic Power - 5.5x2.1mm
ikan VL5, VL7, VH8, VK7(i), VX7(e,i), D5(w), D7(w), and VX9(e) monitors - 5.5x2.1mm
ikan iLED144, iLED-ONE, iLED6, iLED312(-v2), ID(B)508 LED Light Units - 5.5x2.1mm

Alternate Quick Release mounting systems for this battery:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/Arca+Swiss+Clamp Compact size Arca Swiss Clamps ($15)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Quick-Release- ... 1370068854 Flat Manfrotto 200PL QR clamp by FotoPanda ($12)
http://www.smallrig.com/super-lightweig ... 3-942.html SmallRig Super lightweight 15mm RailBlock v3 942 ($10)
http://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-nato-clamp-1885.html SmallRig NATO Clamp 1885 ($40)
https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-handg ... -1887.html SmallRig Handgrip Rosette Adapter ($39)
https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-s-loc ... -1855.html SmallRig S-Lock Quick Release Mounting Device 1855 ($36)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-Rapid-Qui ... 0699932144 A MiniMart Mini Rapid Quick Release Plate ($13)
https://www.amazon.com/KONDOR-BLUE-Moni ... 07JLHHD6W/ KONDOR BLUE Mini Quick Release Plate ($20)
https://powrig.com/collections/accessor ... te-adaptor POWRIG DSLR Monitor Quick Release Plate Adaptor ($20)
https://powrig.com/collections/accessor ... unt-1700-h POWRIG Quick Release Plate Mount 1700-H Adaptor ($21)
https://www.slidekamera.com/v-mount-ada ... e-set.html Slidekamera ultra compact V-Mount system €85.00
https://woodencamera.com/products/v-loc ... unt-3-8-16 Wooden Camera V-Lock Base Station and Wedge Kit ($125)
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... embly.html Oben QRA-R2 Quick Release Assembly with RP-20 Plate ($30)
https://www.abelcine.com/buy/camera-sup ... k-kit#tabs Cameo V-Lock Kit ($150)
https://www.ebay.com/sch/Velbon+QRA-3+B ... se+Adapter Velbon QRA-3 B Mini Quick Release Adapter ($25)
https://www.camvate.com/camvate-quick-r ... p2118.html CAMVATE Quick Release V-Lock Base Station And Wedge Kit ($57)
https://www.camvate.com/camvate-v-lock- ... p1820.html CAMVATE V-Lock Base Station And Wedge Kit ($29)
Last edited by Dmitry Shijan on Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostFri Jul 06, 2018 11:56 am

Things goes slower as expected. First CNC machined test sample arrived today. Partially assembled and tested it. All fits well. Some quick photos:

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Earlier i ordered few test samples of 3D printed internal parts. They looks ugly but usable. 3D printed LP-E6 plate is not usable for my opinion and needs a lot of additional hand work.
So it seems the only way to go now is liquid urethane casting. Work in progress...

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CNC master model for future liquid urethane casting:

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Last edited by Dmitry Shijan on Sat May 18, 2019 7:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostTue Jan 29, 2019 8:18 pm

To keep you up to date here is one more long read post about current state of the project.

07-26-2018. CNC manufactured aluminum mold arts for future liquid urethane casting of rear shell cap:

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10-09-2018. Shiny LP-E6 plate CNC master model:

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and simpler CNC machined rear PCB support plates instead liquid urethane casting ones:

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12-14-2018. First LP-E6 plate mount final mold samples are ready! It fits to BMMCC socket really smooth.

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To save time (as i expected) I put outsource order for plastic parts casting to the small factory in the other city, but that company appears not too reliable. They got very nice high pressure box for casting but it appears they work too slow, too unpredictable and too hard to communicate. So i cancel my collaboration with them. Currently i have only two test samples of the LP-E6 plates that you can see in earlier post. Over this time i got a lot of experience about liquid urethane casting and setup my own small home factory. There are still some things to do, and some tools to add but as a result i will be able to manufacture things in time and with my own degassing vacuum chamber and quality control.

This is what i done today (i'll add better photos later) Those are still beta test samples, but now i can tell you that all parts of this project are now reproduced and tested in real life and ready for batch production. Rear cap feels very solid and clamps very secure and same time very easy. It holds well even without screws fixation. I am really happy how this cap design works in real life.

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01-08-2019. After third copy assemble i start to feel that some things are overcomplicated. Those short and thick custom bended wires are real pain in the ass when it goes to batch manufacture. Very hard to fit properly and too slow to solder.

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New design require custom stamped parts. So it will look something like this:
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Factory made custom stamped parts appears too expensive manufacture method for small batches, so i found another solution - custom made photo etched parts.
Photo etching, also known as chemical etching or metal etching, is a highly precise, tightly controlled corrosion process used to produce complex metal components with very fine detail.
It appears a very popular inexpensive and fast manufacture method. Perfect for small projects!
This is how the connection parts kit will look like:

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01-29-2019. Etched connection parts are here! Manufactured at TMN ELECTRONICS factory. Made of C194 Copper-Iron (CuFe2P) alloy, corrosion resistant and high electrical conductivity.

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Also during this time i made special useful tool to bend parts with proper fixed radius:

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Last edited by Dmitry Shijan on Fri May 24, 2019 2:41 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostTue Jan 29, 2019 8:32 pm

Just WOW! :mrgreen:
You put really a lot of effort into this project to make a decent product out of it! Thumbs Up!

I like that you gone for polyurithane. Which looks much better then the printed piece. :)
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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostTue Jan 29, 2019 9:03 pm

Yep, it looks 100% like real thing now. Casting process goes really well. I experimented with few different materials and end up with Axson F38. It is easy to cast because low viscosity. It is also very rugged and shockproof material with highest possible impact resistance value. I was able to cast 4-6 rear caps per day in lazy mode.

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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostTue Jan 29, 2019 9:09 pm

Just for my understanding? That casting. You make a Alu part of the exact model you need to cast. Then make a counter part in ?? some rubber substance i guess.. Because i see you have re-cest screw holes, Something that would not be possible with a plastic molding process,

And then fill it up, put it into a vacuum chamber to get the air bubbles out, and when hardend you pull the mold out of the vacuum and bend it out of the mold? Have seen something like that years ago on "How do they do it" But was not aware that someone could do something like that in a small workshop environment. 8-)
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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostTue Jan 29, 2019 9:50 pm

I found slightly unusual workflow. Half of the final mould is aluminum and half is silicone, casted from aluminum master model.
Inner part of the mould is CNC machined of aluminum. It helps to keep exact precise dimensions so casted cap can clamp very precise to the battery enclosure. Walls of the final cap are thin and it is flexible enough to be removed from hard aluminum core.
Outer part mould is impossible to CNC machine with normal tools, and also it needs to be flex. So for rear part aluminum master model was CNC machined and from that model silicone mold was made.

Other than this there is nothing new in my casting method. There are tons of how to "silicone mold liquid urethane casting" videos on youtube. For example BJB makes very nice tutorials, i learn with them. The workflow is hard to describe in details in single post because it is really complicated, every little step and every component needs deep learning and testing. It's like to learn kung-fu :) But in short - at least you need vacuum chamber and vacuum pump to remove bubbles from silicone to make final product looks smooth. Also you need low viscosity urethane (for example Axson or Smooth Cast brand) . High viscosity urethanes require more complicated high pressure chambers and expensive high pressure pumps to make them fill well.

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BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostTue Jan 29, 2019 10:01 pm

Dmitry, are you gonna quit yer day job?


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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostTue Jan 29, 2019 10:06 pm

Wonderful...now where's the version molded as a handgrip for the BMPCC4K? You'd probably have about 10x the customers. ;-)
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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostTue Jan 29, 2019 10:20 pm

It can be attached in handgrip mode (makes your widest Pocket4K rig 75% wider):

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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostTue Jan 29, 2019 10:55 pm

Dimitry, when will this be ready? Still waiting on my email. Been trying to rig up my own 18650 solution in the meantime.
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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostTue Jan 29, 2019 11:26 pm

Yes, I am waiting to order one also.
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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostThu Jan 31, 2019 8:17 pm

Any chance anyone knows the right way to wire up 4 18650s so that I can attach it to a DC plug (I will cut/splice the AC one provided with the camera). I have the battery holders that hold 4 18650s, each has little leads coming out of it. I have a potential need in 2 days to need more battery than I have available. I have 12 18650s sitting ready to go. I would love to be able to have an additional couple hours of record time should I need it ready to go.

I definitely want RADIOs adapter when it comes out, as it will have the recharge circuit I assume (the PCB).. but for my immediate needs I was hoping I just wire these up in series some way, and attach the DC adapter to it and can just swap the 4 batteries when needed.

Appreciate any "quick hack" to make that work to power the camera... safely presumably. :D
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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostThu Jan 31, 2019 8:30 pm

Just connect in series plus to minus, plus to minus and you got 14.8V. PCB protection board provides even charging and turns off batteries when voltage became too low, protects from short circuit. Scroll back to earlier posts and you found all you need there.
BTW, battery holder assembled with PCB will be also available as separate low priced DIY module kit. It may be useful for those who want to made its own enclosure or just need to quick solder it to any custom device.
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Justin Jackson

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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostThu Jan 31, 2019 9:43 pm

Thank you fellas.

Dimity, I think there is a video on youtube that shows how to do this with the battery holders.. I will see if I can find it again and quickly put something together. I really really want your setup! Looks WAY more functional and robust. The only thing that might be cool to see added to what you are building is a double battery option..e.g. two sets of 4, so that it runs on 4, and when one set of 4 dies, it kicks over to the other 4 without interruption (and some sort of acknowledgement that 4 have died), and the other feature would be a sort of quick snap in/out battery pack. I may have missed if you already have that, but I would love to have a few 4 battery "cartridges" with me, so that I could quickly push a button to release one pack, and push another one in. Similar to what you see in game controller packs that allow you to put in a few of your own AA or AAA batteries, they just snap in and out quickly. It would be great to sell those empty pack containers, we just buy a few extra, and put sets of batteries in them so they are ready to go. Even without the double pack option, as long as there is a rough idea of when the battery pack is about to stop powering the camera/accessories, it would allow us to stop recording, turn things off, swap battery packs and be back up and running quickly.

I do realize having 8 18650 batteries plus the unit you built will add as much weight if not more than a typical vmount.. it would still be a much better option as the 18650s are so much cheaper and could easily carry more "cartridges" with us than multiple vmount batteries.

Ray: That thing looks pretty cool. I forget my battery math though.. 6 of them instead of 4 would give you 24v fully charged.. that is more than the camera can handle (think it is 7 to 18?). Wouldnt that potentially damage the camera? What am I missing?
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Dmitry Shijan

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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostThu Jan 31, 2019 10:00 pm

Justin Jackson wrote:Thank you fellas.
Dimity, I think there is a video on youtube that shows how to do this with the battery holders.. I will see if I can find it again and quickly put something together. I really really want your setup! Looks WAY more functional and robust. The only thing that might be cool to see added to what you are building is a double battery option..e.g. two sets of 4, so that it runs on 4, and when one set of 4 dies, it kicks over to the other 4 without interruption (and some sort of acknowledgement that 4 have died), and the other feature would be a sort of quick snap in/out battery pack. I may have missed if you already have that, but I would love to have a few 4 battery "cartridges" with me, so that I could quickly push a button to release one pack, and push another one in. Similar to what you see in game controller packs that allow you to put in a few of your own AA or AAA batteries, they just snap in and out quickly. It would be great to sell those empty pack containers, we just buy a few extra, and put sets of batteries in them so they are ready to go. Even without the double pack option, as long as there is a rough idea of when the battery pack is about to stop powering the camera/accessories, it would allow us to stop recording, turn things off, swap battery packs and be back up and running quickly.

I do realize having 8 18650 batteries plus the unit you built will add as much weight if not more than a typical vmount.. it would still be a much better option as the 18650s are so much cheaper and could easily carry more "cartridges" with us than multiple vmount batteries.


Those are decent ideas but not possible in near time. Too complicated and too far from current design. My battery pack designed to be more as permanent holder enclosure. For extra quick battery changing you probably need to get two enclosures. The rear cap can be removed without any tools but it is not designed to be open and closed many times per day, and it is not so quick easy to open as TV remote control battery cap. Same time i tested my sample and put on and off rear cap at least 50 times and it have no any signs of wear.

As an option you can just don't put on rear cap. This will allow to change 18650 cells very quick and easy.
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Justin Jackson

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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostThu Jan 31, 2019 10:46 pm

That is interesting Dimitry. I thought the purpose of your product was to make it simple to change batteries and get all day recording. I really like the overall design, but for me I would want to be able to easily exchange batteries (and in the future battery packs) so that I can not worry about battery. I love the vmount stuff.. but they are big and bulky and your design just makes it look way more convenient. In particular I am thinking along the lines of run-n-gun use.. having 4 18650 batteries would be much better to use for lighter gimbal work.

I am curious, given the 4.2v max, 3.7v nominal, couldnt 2 18650s power the camera? The single LPE6 is only 7.4v, right.. so couldnt you put 2 in series, and get about 1.5 hours, or double the LPE6 duration? Or is it not enough on the DC input to power the camera and SSD?
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Justin Jackson

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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostFri Feb 01, 2019 6:52 am

Well.. I got a little crazy this evening and went ahead and tried my hand at soldering one of those battery holders in series, put a bullet plug on it, and cut my AC cord and put the male bullet plug on that. Happy to report it works. It is definitely not good looking, definitely needs the Dimitry touch! :D If I had a 3D printer I might give it a shot, but for now this is a decent backup.

I will test it out a bit more tomorrow, but threw in some 18650s that I have no clue how much they were charged, and on a 4:1 RAW (to T5) I got almost 40 minutes before it turned off. I am charging up another 4 to full to see tomorrow how long they will go.

Is it typical for the 18650s to get warm during use? They were warm, but not hot by any means.

I think a 2x2 setup would be a more portable design than 4 across. I have the little connector things to make any sort of arrangement, and the nickel strips, but I dont have one of those spot welders, and have read so many mixed reviews on those things that I am kind of leery of doing the battery DIY build. I am also a bit worried about trying to solder on to the NCR 18650s. Not sure how long you can apply heat to them and at what temp, what size solder to use, etc... that constant warning about how they could explode scares me off a little bit. If anyone has suggestions, I am open to them. :D
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Justin Jackson

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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostFri Feb 01, 2019 4:14 pm

That makes sense. Tell you what doesnt make sense. I just tested the batteries that gave me about 40 minutes of use. They show 3.75v and 375mah left on each of them. Fully charged (just took 4 off) show 753mah and 4.2v. Since there are 4, and the camera works from 7v to 18v, I would think 4 batteries in series is putting out 15v still with half their capacity left that it would continue to record.

As for the protection stuff.. I would like to add that, but I thought that was more about being able to charge all four cells with protection, not when used for draining. Do those BMS PCBs that are like $4 or so, work both ways.. e.g. ensure they are NOT overcharged when charging them as well as do something (what?) when discharging?
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Justin Jackson

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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostFri Feb 01, 2019 8:12 pm

Thank you for that. I will read it. So I just did a test on a fresh charged set. All 4 cells were 753mah, 4.2v.. though these are 18650s that say 3400Mah 3.7v... I guess I have more learning to do. The NiteCore charger I use indicates they have 753mah after fully charged. That seems odd to me.. what am I missing?

Anyway, I just set my BMPCC4K to record continuously. The fully charged lasted 2 hours 30 minutes (almost exactly) recording 4:1 RAW. That is freaking awesome for such a simple and cheap way to power the camera. I definitely want to add some protection stuff to it. I also want to find a way to put together a 4 pack in 2x2 configuration, and make it so they can be charged, though right now I charge them in my NiteCore 4 cell charger.. so not sure what you would plug in to it to charge them if they were in a 2x2 configuration and you wanted to charge all 4 cells at the same time. I assume the 4S PCB BMS thingy plus the 4 cells should be enough based on Dimitry and other designs/videos I have seen. My thought is a 2x2 makes it a little easier to carry a few, like a gun clip. Incidentally, I stopped/formatted/started twice during the process since I can only fit 68mins of 4:1 RAW on the T5 500.

Now the cool thing would be.. how do I make it so I can attach a second set of 2x2 so that I can remove the almost dead pack (maybe after 2 hours) and not have any interruption. Is there a PCB/circuit out there that allows 2 sets of batteries.. and when one set gets to a certain voltage, kicks over to the next one?
Last edited by Justin Jackson on Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostFri Feb 01, 2019 8:23 pm

Wow..that is fascinating.. 4.2v is 100% capacity charge.. but the battery gets between 300 to 500 charges. If you stop the charge at 4v you can now get 1200 to 2000 recharges, but only get about 70% capacity. I mean, I am recharging every so often.. in heavy use once or twice a day, with the 16 cells I have. At $28 for 4, its not that expensive to just have more cells on hand, and charge less to extend lift. If I could make a 2x2 pack with a way to swap without interrupting, then charging to 4v would be fine, because I would have a few extra packs handy. I suspect at 3.9v to 4.0v I would still get close to 2 hours of recording time. It will be interesting to see if BRAW requires more processing power or less than RAW.. I would think more though as RAW is more or less just recording direct isnt it? Or does RAW require more processing power because of more data to copy?

Oh..and impressed that my T5 500GB has been able to sustain 4:1 RAW, even if it only gets 68 minutes of 4K DCI 30fps!

I would be fine with stopping charging at 4v instead of 4.2... not sure if battery chargers can be set to stop at a given voltage though.
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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostFri Feb 01, 2019 8:58 pm

Oh man.. I just smacked my head too haha.. I forgot about that. That is very cool. I am curious how it knows to switch though.. because it seems it just shuts off without stopping the recording. Every time it just dies, I have to repair my SSD drive (when attaching to Windows). So it obviously doesnt close out the writing going on enough to cause Windows to recognize there is a problem with the drive. If it actually works flawlessly.. no interruption, drop in power, etc.. so that you dont see a missed frame when recording RAW, that is slick. The only problem still is that you have to be aware of the battery pack dying and moving over to camera battery, so you know to switch out the pack. If there was an indication, like using bluetooth or something (the camera has bluetooth apparently??) to notify your phone that it just switched, that would be fantastic.

OK, so you may have answered this before, and/or Dimitry might have, but the way I am just wiring up 4 batteries in series (via the battery holder) and using them to power the camera.. is there any concern in terms of damaging the camera? They are NCR protected batteries, I dont buy the unprotected ones. But I am not sure if, at least until I can buy Dimitrys setup when it comes out, should I buy/add on the BMS for power output only use? Or if that is primarily for when charging the pack to ensure all 4 cells charge AND dont overcharge? They are cheap enough.. and look easy enough to solder to, just wasnt sure if I should or not. I am fine charging my batteries externally in my smart charger.
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Justin Jackson

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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostFri Feb 01, 2019 9:53 pm

Probably right. That is good to know.. wasnt sure if the protected NCR batteries accounted for discharge or not.

Now I am on the hunt for a 2x2 series container that allows me to replace the batteries. Lots of solutions that have PCBs or not, but glue the batteries in a 2x2 and run the wires, etc. I was hoping to have a 2x2 container that you just slide the batteries in to, with springs on each end, wired correctly, and possibly something decently rugged so it can be screwed to something that can mount to the camera. I could use velcro straps, a little grip arm that I have, etc as well. But mostly want to be able to replace the batteries in a 2x2 4S1P box.

I can make something that would work.. bought a bunch of those 1 battery holders that "slide together", the ones you see everyone using to build large batteries for power wall, etc. I just need to figure out some way to find springs and a cover on each end so that I just pull one end off, pull batteries out of other end, put fresh batteries in, etc. I think if the batteries are placed pos neg every other, I can make the bottom cover with two batteries wired together (e.g. in the cover, not the battery itself) using some sort of double spring, x 2, and then the top wires 2 batteries same way while the other two are the pos/neg leads.
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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostFri Feb 01, 2019 10:04 pm

Man, what is crazy to me.. is that a vmount battery that is 98wh, is like $250 for CORE or good brands, but even the JuiceBox one I got is $150, and you can pick up 4 NCRs for $28 give or take depending on number ordered. So for almost 1/3 the cost you get the same amount of power, and with a little work it is smaller (4 in 2x2 format), you can have more batteries readily available, and possibly the NCR cells are better than those used in a lot of these vmount options.

Curious, why are vmount and other options so popular given the price.. other than the standard way to mount them. I mean, assuming I can find a 2x2 container that the cells can fit in like what I was hoping to find, you can attach a little vmount clip to one of those small things plug the barrel (or locking connector if you so choose). I guess the primary thing is in the case of a battery distribution setup where you have multiple things plugged in to one distribution block, swapping the batteries for vmount might be a little more convenient.
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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostFri Feb 01, 2019 10:44 pm

Sure, that would be cool. I am not in a mad rush. Just looking for alternatives and learning how all this power stuff works is cool too.
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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostFri Feb 01, 2019 10:45 pm

18650 battery cells itself are not the most expensive part of the battery brick. Usually the most expensive part is well designed enclosure and assemble process. It is rather easy to glue a PCB board with wires and warp it with sticky tape into usable battery brick, but when you start to design something more user friendly and durable you are going into endless tech adventures and even small project appears rather heavy for budget.
From all cheap power bank options those 4 or 6 cells bike battery enclosures seems ok for me, but not perfect.
Pros:
Rather cheap
Can be used with quality 18650 cells.

Cons:
Unknown low power PCB inside.
Voltage is limited to 8.4v.
Thin spring battery connectors wires are easy to melt during heavy load.
No camera screw mounting points.

So just don't load them with too high wattage.
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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostFri Feb 01, 2019 11:23 pm

Agree with you Dimitry. Between this thread and looking up for containers to mount a 2x2 cell setup in series, I have spent hours today. :D

What you are providing is a much nicer package overall. If it has a battery readout on it, to give a rough idea of the charge left (before the BMPCC4K would shut off) that would be great. The only concern I have with what you built, which you mentioned yesterday is it is not meant to be easily opened and replace batteries. I understand you in that trying to go back and redesign that in may take more time, but for me that is the primary issue with your design. I would like a very easy way to open the top (or side), pull the batteries out, and put more in and be back up and going, without having to buy a 2nd unit. The benefit of being able to swap the batteries is "on par" with vmount systems, maybe a little more work, but truly not a big deal. I really like your design though, and you have definitely put a lot into it. I do plan on getting one eventually as I like to support my fellow film/etc in their endeavors as well... though I am out of a job right now so this cheaper route (since I already bought 12 cells) is appealing to me as backup for longer record times.
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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostFri Feb 01, 2019 11:28 pm

So looking at what you have built, and what you said, do you screw the back cover on, thus that is why its not so easy to replace batteries on the fly? Had a thought.. if what I am seeing is the case, maybe look to use some rare earth magnets in the 4 spots where screws would usually go. Then you can put the cover on and the magnets hold it in pretty tight. Not sure exactly what that would entail, but it could be a way to make your setup easy to replace batteries.

Also, from what I am seeing is their a separate unit to attach to it for different mount options? The pictures I see in this thread seem to look like it is hard mounted to a rails setup, which is fine, but many would want a way to mount the smaller battery module only to.. like Ray said, a gimbal handle or using 1/4" screws or something.

Thoughts?
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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostFri Feb 01, 2019 11:34 pm

If it has a battery readout on it, to give a rough idea of the charge left (before the BMPCC4K would shut off) that would be great.

My enclosure have very nice battery voltage indicator. It all described in earlier posts. There are also a lot of answers to your questions posted. Just read my earlier posts.

The only concern I have with what you built, which you mentioned yesterday is it is not meant to be easily opened and replace batteries.

18650 cells are not like AA cells. They are less protected outside and not designed to be taken in and out everyday. They are easy to blow or permanently damage during short circuit. Also it is way easier to plug charger to the socket and charge batteries in the box than mess every time with opening and closing something in the field and put cells one by one to the charger and then put back to the box.

Also, from what I am seeing is their a separate unit to attach to it for different mount options? The pictures I see in this thread seem to look like it is hard mounted to a rails setup, which is fine, but many would want a way to mount the smaller battery module only to.. like Ray said, a gimbal handle or using 1/4" screws or something.


It just a SmallRig rail block. One of the endless rigging examples. Rail block is not a part of a battery kit.

So looking at what you have built, and what you said, do you screw the back cover on, thus that is why its not so easy to replace batteries on the fly?

Rear cover clamps to the top and bottom keyholes and additionally fixed with 4 screws. This makes it very rugged and shockproof. It feels like solid 100% protected brick.
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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostSat Feb 02, 2019 1:43 am

Ahh.. gotchat. I did read a while ago the other posts.. just didnt want to reread everything. sorry.

Yah, so I get it, you make sense Dimitry. So the, what would be slick, is a 2x2 or 4x1 "cartridge" where the batteries stay in the cartridge, it has contacts that then touch the inside contacts of your container, so that you are not pulling the batteries out every time, just the cartridge. Then either have a separate little thing you can put a "spent cartridge" in to to charge it, or they can just put it back in later in the unit and charge it.

Anyway, I like what you have done. I think it will do very well. Especially as there are not a lot of well thought out options like what you are building. I just like the idea of quickly replacing battery packs. I cant see spending the $125 or whatever it will cost multiple times, when a set of 4 batteries are $28. Thus, a cartridge system with 4 batteries that cost around $40 or so would be very good. Maybe for version 2??
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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostSat Feb 02, 2019 4:14 am

Those expensive V-mount or AB batteries are using latest generation lithium-ion cells that are packaged in ways to isolate each cell in the event one should catch fire. The cells can be recharged safely and fully to at least 1000 charges. The enclosures can be extremely rugged. They include power regulation and may have two or more power taps such as for regulated 12VDC and 5/7.2VDC. They also show their available pier remaining with either four LEDs or small panels that can dynamically display remaining runtime when used with your camera. And they’re easy to mount and unmount. And they use chargers that can charge one to four batteries at a time that you can leave in all night without fear of overcharging. They come with a warranty and track record for reliability so you just buy and deploy without any fuss.

You don’t need to spend days configuring your makeshift solution that you may decide is a headache. Yes you’ll save $ but you’re giving up a lot of features and adding more time and possibly adding unnecessary risk.

I’m sure modern cinema batteries have many other advantages... we all have our favourite solutions and yours could be just what you’re doing now as it has some advantages too.


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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostSat Feb 02, 2019 4:40 am

Australian Image wrote:
The voltage isn't an issue as the camera and many field monitors work fine with voltages from 7.2V upwards. My Feelworld 5.7" monitor works fine with the lower voltage.


From my testing with a benchtop power supply, I think nominal 8.4V battery packs are non-ideal.
1. When powered by the the cameras external connector, I found camera operation fairly unreliable under 7.5V.
2. There is a danger the camera will decide the internal battery is a better option and start discharging from that.
3. If you want the internal battery to be backup for hot swapping the external battery, you will need to ensure you keep it charged somehow, because the camera will not charge the internal battery properly unless its fed by more than 10V. I guess its best practice to always start with a freshly charged battery anyway, but if you happen to be stuck somewhere you can't do that...

Anyway, lets not hijack this thread. Wouldn't want to discourage this development effort. Its been very informative seeing what goes into product development.
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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostSun Feb 03, 2019 8:34 am

Yes, you are spot on as always Rick. All fine points.

For me it is cost/size/weight more than anything. However, after using it tonight, there is a bit to be desired but it DID make it much easier to more the camera around. I definitely would prefer a mounted option to my rig than holding the 4 pack in my pocket... but it did work for the purpose of shooting the debutante. Just hoping the mix match of RAW, ProRes LT, 422, and 24fps and 60fps is editable! Never done something like this before! Will say it was a lot lighter not having my vmount battery on there though.
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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostSun Feb 03, 2019 3:48 pm

Excellent, Justin. Hope you’ll post a link to the resulting video here.


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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostMon Feb 04, 2019 3:36 am

WoW Wow, It's professional looking compared to my diy battery pack (12.6v)+belly pocket. One question Can BMPCC4k handle 14.8v (long term use)?
diy part Panasonic NCR18650B (3200mAh 1 cell 3.6V) 3 cell x 3 cell cost around real canan battry.
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Last edited by visalapol on Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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rick.lang

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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostMon Feb 04, 2019 4:50 am

The 2-pin input power connection handles 12-18VDC power sources without any duration constraints.


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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostMon Feb 04, 2019 5:11 am

I thought one of the BMD reps had posted here it was 12-18 in spite of other documentation saying 12-20VDC.


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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostMon Feb 04, 2019 4:27 pm

visalapol I see 6 batteries in there.. is it a 6S1P setup, for a total of up to 24v? Or is it 3S2P setup? If 3S2P, that gives you a max of 12.6v, but half way would be under 12.. which I would assume would mean the camera turns off well before the capacity is reached? If so, why did you put it together that way? If not, then how are you using it?

I am going to still say that a 2x2 layout with 4S1P is the best option. Smaller size, but larger enough if they were in a container could be mounted to anywhere on a cage/rail. Long enough duration knowing you can quickly exchange with another pack.

You know what would be ideal I think.. is those AA and AAA battery holders, but for 18650 (with better material than cheap thin plastic), springs, that you slid in to a mountable container that has contacts on one side for plus/minus, and is wired to a discharge protection circuit. Then, have a second charging unit with BMS in it. Then you just slide these small light 2x2 cartridges into the unit attached to camera or gimbal handle to power the camera, and when expended, slide them out, then into charging container and charge them.

If I had a 3D printer I might actually mess around with something like that. Seems like it would be possible to make.
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Dmitry Shijan

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Re: BMMCC 14.8V Battery Module by RADIOPROEKTOR

PostTue Feb 05, 2019 12:15 am

Just don't forget that this is BMMCC battery at first place. Being powerful enough it keeps camera tiny profile. This makes it unique. Form factor and size fits exact to the BMMCC SmallRig cage dimensions.

If i designed abstract battery brick from scratch it probably may have different look, size and ergonomics.

From other point of view i see that this project became more and more complicated in real life. And time to time i thinking about similar aluminum body but with dual Sony NP-F Battery back plate instead of 18650 cells.
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