Blackmagic Forum

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:11 am**

just was browsing to see SSD list but found firmware 1.3
108mb

EDIT:

my bad, its utility 1.3

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:17 am**

Unfortunately only this:

• SDI outputs interlaced video when frame rate is set to 1080p25 or 1080p29.97 and overlays are turned off

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:24 pm**

swaneon wrote:my bad, its utility 1.3

Utility is what installs the firmware.

Firmware 1.3 only adds Interlaced output via SDI as Peter pointed out.

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:21 pm**

Not quite the firmware update i was hoping for.

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:29 pm**

CaptainHook wrote:Not quite the firmware update i was hoping for.

Nor many others... I only recall one person asking for Interlaced output.

Audio meters and remaining drive space seem to be the highest on the list of requests.

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:15 pm**

Perhaps not the most requested feature for cinematographers, but now the camera's output can be sent to our ATEM switchers! Often requested in our Live Production forum.

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:22 pm**

And a good feature to have if you are in live production... but this is the Blackmagic Cinema Camera.

We just wanna know how much space we still have on out SSD and would love to be able to monitor audio.

Roll on Firmware 1.4

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:27 pm**

Christine Peterson wrote:Perhaps not the most requested feature for cinematographers, but now the camera's output can be sent to our ATEM switchers! Often requested in our Live Production forum.

So, Christine, Black Magic sold a lot of these cameras on the promise that things missing in the "initial" firmware were going to be addressed in future firmware releases. Is there any word on plans for addressing common things missing in the firmware ?

Doesn't Black Magic owe it to those who bought in good faith and belief in that to announce its plans ?

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:32 pm**

ChrisBarcellos wrote:
Christine Peterson wrote:Perhaps not the most requested feature for cinematographers, but now the camera's output can be sent to our ATEM switchers! Often requested in our Live Production forum.

So, Christine, Black Magic sold a lot of these cameras on the promise that things missing in the "initial" firmware were going to be addressed in future firmware releases. Is there any word on plans for addressing common things missing in the firmware ?

Doesn't Black Magic owe it to those who bought in good faith and belief in that to announce its plans ?

The team will continue to work on firmware updates. We typically don't share product roadmaps or planned updates, sorry!

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:40 pm**

Christine Peterson wrote:Perhaps not the most requested feature for cinematographers, but now the camera's output can be sent to our ATEM switchers! Often requested in our Live Production forum.

THIS! Although this should have been added from the beginning:)

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:59 pm**

Well I installed it and tried using my Canon 10-22mm just in case they slipped in a few undocumented features....like.....I dunno....actually have all Canon EF lenses working when it is an EF mount? Seriously....I just tried it for giggles and it didn't work. Can't blame a guy for trying. However....can we get any indication if the BM team are even trying to add compatibility for some of these "standard" EF lenses? I bought this lens based on the fact that firmware updates would eventually support it....but I am beginning to wonder if they ever will? I am using ND to control the exposure for now....but I might not always want to be shooting wide open.

So...any chance we can get a nugget of news regarding if BMC is actually going to support some of these lenses in future firmware updates?

THanks.

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:45 pm**

Christine:

What does that mean ? We can expect Black Magic not to address concerns of the user about the current state of the firmware ?

Black Magic already laid out plans to update firmware during the initial sales presentations of this camera. Please don't leave us in the dark about what we can expect from Black Magic Design.

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:54 pm**

ChrisBarcellos wrote:Christine:

What does that mean ? We can expect Black Magic not to address concerns of the user about the current state of the firmware ?

Black Magic already laid out plans to update firmware during the initial sales presentations of this camera. Please don't leave us in the dark about what we can expect from Black Magic Design.

Amen to that brother!!!!!!!

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:01 pm**

ChrisBarcellos wrote:Christine:

What does that mean ? We can expect Black Magic not to address concerns of the user about the current state of the firmware ?

Black Magic already laid out plans to update firmware during the initial sales presentations of this camera. Please don't leave us in the dark about what we can expect from Black Magic Design.

It means updates will come when BMD have completed testing them and are ready to release them.

They don't share their roadmap of when these updates will be released.

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:21 pm**

adamroberts wrote:
ChrisBarcellos wrote:Christine:

What does that mean ? We can expect Black Magic not to address concerns of the user about the current state of the firmware ?

Black Magic already laid out plans to update firmware during the initial sales presentations of this camera. Please don't leave us in the dark about what we can expect from Black Magic Design.

It means updates will come when BMD have completed testing them and are ready to release them.

They don't share their roadmap of when these updates will be released.

I was asking a representative of the Company a serious question about the meaning of the communication and what we as consumers can expect. Are you responding for the Company ?

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:28 pm**

Christine:

We went through a period in the development of Canon 5D Mark II where Canon was silent on fixing some real deficiencies in the firmware. Magic Lantern was a result of the silence. In the meantime, we had to come up with all kinds of work arounds at some expense to resolve the problems. Users who have purchased this camera had expectations promoted by the Company that the initial firmware would be supplemented. There should be some sort of outline of what that is so the user can plan for those aspects of the firmware that will not be addressed. This is a valid reason for the user to be informed about what will and what won't be addressed. That is the consideration we are asking for.

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:42 pm**

ChrisBarcellos wrote:Are you responding for the Company ?

No. But it was clear what she posted.

People asked for a roadmap of updates. BMD does not publish that info.

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:03 pm**

Policies can change if a Company recognizes a need to satisfy the needs of its consumers.

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:38 pm**

ChrisBarcellos wrote:Policies can change if a Company recognizes a need to satisfy the needs of its consumers.

What about BMDs update policy has ever suggested that they would give such updates?

Plus having seen the reactions of forum users when features get delayed form one update to the next or updates delayed due to unforeseen complications I can see why they might not bee keen on the idea.

Buy a product on what it does at the point of sale, not what may be added later, as even things 'guaranteed' to be added can be delayed past the point where you might need them

There is a valid reason ye, but it may not from BMD's point of view outweigh the reasons against.

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:02 pm**

I don't think anyone should expect any more updates from BMD about anything...

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:12 pm**

mhood wrote:I don't think anyone should expect any more updates from BMD about anything...

They can, experience suggests they'll be disappointed.

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:14 pm**

Pete Proniewicz-Brooks wrote:
mhood wrote:I don't think anyone should expect any more updates from BMD about anything...

They can, experience suggests they'll be disappointed.

Well, Grant's last update for the first time contained no suggestion of or commitment to a future update.

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:35 pm**

I agree. The time of sweet illusion that this company actually cares about its customers has long passed.

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:37 pm**

I happen to be a big defender of this camera. As it stands it provides a great product. I have one at my company. I am a customer. I am merely asking the Company what I can expect from firmware upgrades so I can plan my support needs in the future. If its nothing new, I am fine, and I will support it. But don't leave us in this limbo land. That is all I ask.

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:52 pm**

ungovernedreason wrote:I agree. The time of sweet illusion that this company actually cares about its customers has long passed.

Not broadcasting info they aren't ready to tell us and not caring are two very different things.....

ChrisBarcellos wrote:I happen to be a big defender of this camera. As it stands it provides a great product. I have one at my company. I am a customer. I am merely asking the Company what I can expect from firmware upgrades so I can plan my support needs in the future. If its nothing new, I am fine, and I will support it. But don't leave us in this limbo land. That is all I ask.

There is no limbo if the sensible attitude of not expecting anything specific to come, but that useful things might. Making decisions on future updates is a perilous business.

A look at the history of this forum will show you what happens when an announcement is made by BM of what they plan and then fail to meet that plan.

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:56 pm**

Pete Proniewicz-Brooks wrote:A look at the history of this forum will show you what happens when an announcement is made by BM of what they plan and then fail to meet that plan.

I suppose the solution is to announce no more plans, huh? That avoids customer awareness of company failures at the expense of customer frustration which can easily be ignored. What I don't understand is the "shipping in July" commitment again...I would have guessed they would not announce a shipping d8 at all.

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:02 pm**

I've just done the update on my BMCC EF and sorry if this sounds crazy but I have the feeling the iris jog buttons have reversed. The left one (<) closes down the aperture while the right one (>) opens up. Can someone confirm it was always this way? I don't remember for sure! I've checked the manual but it doesn't specify.

Maybe I'm just being paranoid after an update but intuitively it feels like the right button should close the iris (numbers getting higher from left to right...).

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:22 pm**

nicwassell wrote:I've just done the update on my BMCC EF and sorry if this sounds crazy but I have the feeling the iris jog buttons have reversed. The left one (<) closes down the aperture while the right one (>) opens up. Can someone confirm it was always this way? I don't remember for sure! I've checked the manual but it doesn't specify.

Maybe I'm just being paranoid after an update but intuitively it feels like the right button should close the iris (numbers getting higher from left to right...).

Just checked on my 1.2 camera and left stops you down while right opens you up. Now that you mention this, it seems like it's the opposite of the dials on DSLRs where turning to the left gets you more light (both a longer exposer or a wider aperture). I kind of wish I could have it reversed!

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:29 pm**

how does the new menue look like? it is possible to change between progressive and interlaced or is this just a fixed setting to interlaced after updating the firmware?

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:16 pm**

MIDDLEEASTMAMBO wrote:how does the new menue look like? it is possible to change between progressive and interlaced or is this just a fixed setting to interlaced after updating the firmware?

If you turn off overlays it switches to interlaced.

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:17 pm**

fahnon wrote:
nicwassell wrote:I've just done the update on my BMCC EF and sorry if this sounds crazy but I have the feeling the iris jog buttons have reversed. The left one (<) closes down the aperture while the right one (>) opens up. Can someone confirm it was always this way? I don't remember for sure! I've checked the manual but it doesn't specify.

Maybe I'm just being paranoid after an update but intuitively it feels like the right button should close the iris (numbers getting higher from left to right...).

Just checked on my 1.2 camera and left stops you down while right opens you up. Now that you mention this, it seems like it's the opposite of the dials on DSLRs where turning to the left gets you more light (both a longer exposer or a wider aperture). I kind of wish I could have it reversed!

Thanks fahnon - to be honest I think I'd like it the other way round too given the choice but at least I now know it was my brain playing a trick on me to think it had been like that before!

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:34 pm**

adamroberts wrote:
MIDDLEEASTMAMBO wrote:how does the new menue look like? it is possible to change between progressive and interlaced or is this just a fixed setting to interlaced after updating the firmware?

If you turn off overlays it switches to interlaced.

thanks for the info Adam,

would love to be able to switch between interlaced and progressive... sometimes it makes more sense to use it with a Hyperdeck Shuttle in progressive mode. Seems that this always would require a firmware update / rollback when the camera is to be used with the ATEM. Would be great if BM could just implement a button / slider in the touchscreen menu to activate / deactivate progressive / interlaced. Should not be too complicated to do.

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:46 pm**

would be interesting if the signal changes to "real" interlaced or is it just a 25p stream in a 50i wrapper (psf)?
If it would be PSF it would solve some problems...

Posted: **Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:02 am**

This is a feature I was asking for since day 1. I was planning on putting four BMCC's into a studio, but BMD told me the camera was not ready for that 3 months ago. At NAB it was mentioned it was coming. I am glad I can hook it up to a production switcher.

Posted: **Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:08 am**

Hey guys, dont worry I bet they "really busy" trying to solve current issues such as these and making providing all they can to improve the present product.

Psh, its not like they are working on anything else lately..like an new camera already......are they?

Its kind of upsetting knowing that all the delays from last year could have probably( potentially ) been avoided had all their efforts been put to the issue at hand, instead of looking at building new hardware. ( pretty much granting the earlier model obsolete )

I really wish the whole upgrade cycle would slow down now....focus on whats here now and push it to the limits..then once thats done move on from there to potentially new hardware.

That being said im not one of those " its all about how you use the tool, not the tool itself" kind of guys ( I agree with that to an extent ) In other words, I like the upgrades, but find a way to distribute how much effort goes into each part of your product family.

I not sure creating simple function such as audio meters, or SSD space readouts, etc...could take so long to implement....

that is unless the efforts are again as in the past being prioritized elsewhere, and these firmware upgrades and requests are more second hand concerns...

Then again, im no software engineer for the firmware of these camera's...so who knows maybe these features are as hard to implement as BMD has demonstrated to us thus far...

Just my thoughts

Schoolpost

Posted: **Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:05 am**

R&D and Manufacturing are 2 different beasts.

While the camera was delayed by manufacturing issues R&D continue to work on other things.

The software on all 3 cameras is based on the same code so any developments in the new cameras would be tested on the "old" one and rolled out once its ready.

The camera has been out for less than a year and already had 3 updates. That's pretty good going.

Yes there are features missing but they don't stop the camera doing the job.

Posted: **Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:59 am**

mhood wrote:
Pete Proniewicz-Brooks wrote:A look at the history of this forum will show you what happens when an announcement is made by BM of what they plan and then fail to meet that plan.

I suppose the solution is to announce no more plans, huh? That avoids customer awareness of company failures at the expense of customer frustration which can easily be ignored. What I don't understand is the "shipping in July" commitment again...I would have guessed they would not announce a shipping d8 at all.

The way many companies ship stuff on time is to not announce them until they have got to the stage it's entered manufacturing and the time delay till launch is mostly a lead time to allow them to ship a ton of stock.

You get customer frustration either way, if you announce and delay then huge frustration, if you keep quiet until you are actually ready then frustration, there is no way to avoid it (though the silent way I suspect is a better balance on new stuff).

The July date is a surprise, especially as the cameras have provided no footage yet, maybe they are trying to put out the absolute best test shots and so are delaying till they have tweaked the final picture science, and the cameras are shippable but they want them to be better, maybe they are gambeling that lightning won't strike twice (not a great gamble when sitting on a such powder keg).

Posted: **Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:51 am**

adamroberts wrote:And a good feature to have if you are in live production... but this is the Blackmagic Cinema Camera.

We just wanna know how much space we still have on out SSD and would love to be able to monitor audio.

Roll on Firmware 1.4

Its simple actually,

Just do the math, in prores thats 2gb per minute. So more or less, a 120gb would give you roughly a 60minute recording time. And the total recording time is displayed at the screen. So whenever the screen says you recorded a total of 40minutes prores, then most probably you already spent 80gb of you available storage. The tricky part is that if you have a ssd that has a used portion already, then i am not sure if this would apply correctly or even remotely close to my computation.

But i would still love that they would give it to us. Also the battery indicator is worst.

Posted: **Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:55 am**

I don't like 1.3

Posted: **Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:56 pm**

For those of us who don't care for 1.3 must we upgrade in order to be able to jump into 1.4 whenever that comes around or can we just move up from 1.2 to 1.4?

Posted: **Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:13 pm**

pixhershko wrote:For those of us who don't care for 1.3 must we upgrade in order to be able to jump into 1.4 whenever that comes around or can we just move up from 1.2 to 1.4?

You can skip updates. You can also go back to previous updates.

Posted: **Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:25 pm**

Thanks

Posted: **Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:22 pm**

Just my opinion, but I've always believed the best camera is the one that you have.

I'm super happy with my BMCC. There are work arounds and limitations for everything, not just cameras.

Now, with firmware updates coming out so quickly, it's easy to wish for everything in the next update because the perception is "it's just code - write it and slap it on my camera." I personally hope manufacturers take their time with these updates. There is nothing more annoying than a perfectly acceptable build of the camera that becomes crippled / buggy and needs to rolled back as a result of bad firmware testing. Or worse yet, knowingly beta testing said buggy firmware on real users on real shoots in the field.

I'm happy BMD added a feature that enables users to do things with the camera that had no workarounds. I can get great results with this camera w/o meters, ssd remain, a couple lenses that are not supported electronically. I do hope these issues are addressed, but in due time, with proper testing / QC so my camera stays dependable.

Thank you BMD.

Posted: **Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:18 pm**

To the development team.

- Format the SSD directly from camera.(Mac and ExFat) VERY IMPORTANT
- Be able to write labels the SSD (important for DIT, Data Wrangler, avoid overwriting errors).
- Remaining recording time in SSD (percentage or time options) and alarm display. VERY IMPORTANT
- VUs for audio. VERY IMPORTANT
- Remove clips directly from the camera.
- When playing the clips, the display information is for the clip (ASA, fps, # clip, etc), in version 1.1 shows the camera settings. the PLAY arrow could be green.
- Play any recorded clip. Whether you've recorded on the different options (Raw. ProRes, DNxHD), currently only played clips of current camera selection.
- If you record in RAW, with Film color. if change the Video, when I play previously recorded clips, they affect reproduction. In my personal opinion, I think that should not happen, or be optional.
- Possible to have transparency for the menu interface. in areas that do not have information, (solid gray, gray background I mean).
- Option to access by key combination to view the current firmware version and other information of the camera hardware and camera settings. (Ex. push STOP for 5 sec or push and hold STOP y next PLAY)
- Choice of different colors peaking
-White balance manual option (Ex. change in values of 100ºK).
-More pictures. 48fps, 60 and more.
- Option to select the information superimposed on the screen, and the SDI output independently (Audio VU, TC, guides etc).
- Waveform, Histogram.
To use the USB port to copy the material (I know, it's so slow USB information), but from experience can be an interesting and util option.
- Possible to have a Data Manager software, you can make a more secure verification, you can also help organize the material in a production

I will continue making suggestions.

Thank you very much.

Posted: **Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:53 pm**

nvsteadicam wrote:To the development team.

- If you record in RAW, with Film color. if change the Video, when I play previously recorded clips, they affect reproduction. In my personal opinion, I think that should not happen, or be optional.

This doesn't make sense. The rendering style is a live rendered effect...so the RAW footage is being "displayed" how you choose, Film or Video. It's not attached or baked into the actual footage/clip.

- Choice of different colors peaking
Definitely a solid suggestion

-White balance manual option (Ex. change in values of 100ºK).
This would be nice!

-More pictures. 48fps, 60 and more.

Already been shot down, cannot change this with firmware.

- Option to select the information superimposed on the screen, and the SDI output independently (Audio VU, TC, guides etc).
- Waveform, Histogram.

To use the USB port to copy the material (I know, it's so slow USB information), but from experience can be an interesting and util option.

They've also shot this one down.

- Possible to have a Data Manager software, you can make a more secure verification, you can also help organize the material in a production

I will continue making suggestions.

Thank you very much.

Posted: **Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:21 pm**

nvsteadicam wrote:- Format the SSD directly from camera.(Mac and ExFat) VERY IMPORTANT

I can live without.

nvsteadicam wrote:- Be able to write labels the SSD (important for DIT, Data Wrangler, avoid overwriting errors).

I can live without.

- Remaining recording time in SSD (percentage or time options) and alarm display. VERY IMPORTANT

Agreed. I think this is incredibly important.

- VUs for audio. VERY IMPORTANT

Hopefully we see meters in the next firmware release.

- Remove clips directly from the camera.

I can live without.

- When playing the clips, the display information is for the clip (ASA, fps, # clip, etc), in version 1.1 shows the camera settings. the PLAY arrow could be green.

Agreed - this would be really handy!

- Play any recorded clip. Whether you've recorded on the different options (Raw. ProRes, DNxHD), currently only played clips of current camera selection.

There must be a technical reason why the camera basically "re-boots" when you switch between ProRes and DNxHD - so I'm not sure if this is fixable or not.

- If you record in RAW, with Film color. if change the Video, when I play previously recorded clips, they affect reproduction. In my personal opinion, I think that should not happen, or be optional.

I'm with Sean. This is a non-issue.

- Possible to have transparency for the menu interface. in areas that do not have information, (solid gray, gray background I mean).

I can live without.

- Option to access by key combination to view the current firmware version and other information of the camera hardware and camera settings. (Ex. push STOP for 5 sec or push and hold STOP y next PLAY)

HUGELY AGREE! This is extremely important for those hiring cameras.

- Choice of different colors peaking

Agreed.

-White balance manual option (Ex. change in values of 100ºK).

HUGELY AGREE!

-More pictures. 48fps, 60 and more.

It's been made known that this is a limitation of the hardware. At the end of the day, you get what you pay for.

- Option to select the information superimposed on the screen, and the SDI output independently (Audio VU, TC, guides etc).

Agree.

To use the USB port to copy the material (I know, it's so slow USB information), but from experience can be an interesting and util option.

Not technically possible, but I would never use this feature if it did exist anyway.

- Possible to have a Data Manager software, you can make a more secure verification, you can also help organize the material in a production

There are plenty of options already out there... ShotPut Pro, DoubleData will no doubt add BMC support soon, YoYottaID, the soon-to-be-released Red Giant Bullet Proof.

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