MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

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Simon Shasha

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MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostWed May 01, 2013 11:12 pm

There hasn't been a word said about the 2.5K MFT BMCC in a long while. Can you please give us some sort of update in regards to this camera - PLEASE.

Thank you.
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bhook

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostWed May 01, 2013 11:14 pm

What you want to bet they ignore your simple and very reasonable request?
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Simon Shasha

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostWed May 01, 2013 11:22 pm

I hope they don't...I'd be happy if they simply replied "MFT BMCC", just to acknowledge that the camera still exists, or is still on their radar in one form or another...I ordered the EF BMCC back in June 2012, then switched to the MFT BMCC when it was announced...now I'm wishing I stuck with the EF, regardless of crop-factor...at least I'd most likely have gotten my camera by now...
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Macielle

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostWed May 01, 2013 11:35 pm

Simon Shasha wrote:There hasn't been a word said about the 2.5K MFT BMCC in a long while. Can you please give us some sort of update in regards to this camera - PLEASE.

Thank you.

+1
PLEASE
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Colby Moore

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu May 02, 2013 1:15 am

+1 for an update. Come on BMD, give us some info. We're now two months from the supposed shipping date of two completely new models, and paying customers like myself in line for an MFT deserve at least a shipping ETA. We just want some definitive info to convince us this thing isn't becoming vaporware. I know we were told that's not the case, but the complete refusal to offer any info about it since February isn't making it easy to believe that. I know EF pre-orders faced (and in some cases are still facing) equally extensive delays, but at least they received some semblance of updates from BMD about that model back before February. The sudden and complete lack of any shipping info about either model since February is really frustrating. Ignoring the elephant in the room is getting really old...
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Ghassan Nazmi

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu May 02, 2013 1:57 am

Please :?
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Steve Lee Jean

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu May 02, 2013 3:15 am

I know how you guys feel, I'm in the MFT boat too. Things take time, and that's just life. But given BMD's track record, I'm sure its coming soon.

Given their penchant to fulfill EF orders before MFT ships, I'm sure they'll do their best to fulfill MFT orders before 4k and Pocket ships. Well, I hope.
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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu May 02, 2013 5:50 am

Image
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Doug Guerra

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu May 02, 2013 12:53 pm

Helping to keep this thread bumped. It may seem a little hopeless, but if we want the MFT on our radar, we have to keep the notice on theirs.
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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu May 02, 2013 1:49 pm

+1
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Joseph Ciccarella

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu May 02, 2013 3:13 pm

Doug Guerra wrote:Helping to keep this thread bumped. It may seem a little hopeless, but if we want the MFT on our radar, we have to keep the notice on theirs.


Gotta agree. It would be nice for some news. Let's just not turn this thread into another anger rant-athon or a place for personal stories of how someone got ripped off. Let's keep it civil, please. Just asking for an update. Thanks.

I'll +1 to that.
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David Sandberg

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu May 02, 2013 3:24 pm

+1

I'd love to use it on a project in june but I'll probably have to try and get an EF-mount instead. At least I'll be able to use my Nikon lenses... :(
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Ghassan Nazmi

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu May 02, 2013 3:40 pm

ponysmasher wrote:+1

I'd love to use it on a project in june but I'll probably have to try and get an EF-mount instead. At least I'll be able to use my Nikon lenses... :(



I have a whole feature film to shoot on with it on September but yet I feel its hopeless
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Pete Proniewicz-Brooks

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu May 02, 2013 3:53 pm

BMD have shown a reluctance to update when there is no news, news being when something changes. And so an update is only likely when either shipping starts or they cancel it.
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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu May 02, 2013 3:57 pm

Pete Proniewicz-Brooks wrote:BMD have shown a reluctance to update


I quoted the relevant portion of your post. :D
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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu May 02, 2013 6:50 pm

+1
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Clayton Burkhart

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu May 02, 2013 7:12 pm

Update or give me a production camera instead at the BMCC MFT's original price.
That would be a fair reward for my patience I think. :D
Last edited by Clayton Burkhart on Thu May 02, 2013 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu May 02, 2013 7:20 pm

yoclay wrote:Update or give me a production camera instead at the BMCC MFT's original price.
That would be a fair reward for my patience I think.


Not that I don't follow your sentiment but does the phrase, "magical thinking" carry any significance with you?
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Clayton Burkhart

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu May 02, 2013 7:22 pm

dregenthal wrote:
yoclay wrote:Update or give me a production camera instead at the BMCC MFT's original price.
That would be a fair reward for my patience I think.


Not that I don't follow your sentiment but does the phrase, "magical thinking" carry any significance with you?


Not at all. I feel I am being perfectly reasonable. :twisted:
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Colby Moore

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu May 02, 2013 7:40 pm

The idea that no news warrants no updates is ludicrous at this point. That made sense when we were asking for an update two weeks after the last update. There should be news at this point. It's been months since the last real news. If there is no news that leads to speculation that nothing is being done to resolve the issues at hand. I get that BMD don't want to have to keep us updated weekly on their production cycle, but when months have passed, a little info on what is being done to overcome the sensor supply issue, etc. is more than within the realm of reasonable requests.
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John Bartman

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu May 02, 2013 8:56 pm

This was just passed on to me,
and came from blackmagic support a week ago:

I can tell you that we are getting closer to shipping as the Beta versions have gone out to our testers a month or so ago. Unfortunately I do not have any information other than that, no estimates on shipping dates or anything like that. I do understand your frustration and will make that clear to the product manager but I simply do not have any shipping information on the MFT Cinema Camera right now.
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John Bartman

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostFri May 03, 2013 7:28 am

Still wondering why ....
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Taikonaut

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostFri May 03, 2013 9:26 am

bartman wrote:Still wondering why ....


If you want a official response from Grant you need to risk a warning hit or two from the moderator like I have ;)
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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostFri May 03, 2013 1:07 pm

Taikonaut wrote:
bartman wrote:Still wondering why ....


If you want a official response from Grant you need to risk a warning hit or two from the moderator like I have ;)

Taikonaut, your warnings were given because of personal insults, if I remember correctly. Rude behavior will lead to warnings and eventually banning, not updates, I assure you. We know everyone would like an update. We'll share one when we have news, not in reaction to you or other inflammatory posters.
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Fulgencio Martínez

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostFri May 03, 2013 3:47 pm

You see.. now you have an update, wich is "no update".. just wait without an excuse
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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostFri May 03, 2013 4:53 pm

I sense some more semantic aberrations at play here. When BMD says there is no new news (and therefore no upd8), I suspect they really don't consider whatever reason(s) there might be for not shipping MFT cameras after taking a significant bite out of the EF backlog (what Grant committed to doing in his last upd8 a few months ago) actual new news and worthy of an upd8 under the current BMD policy of no upd8s until there is new news.

:?
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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostFri May 03, 2013 5:16 pm

mhood wrote:I sense some more semantic aberrations at play here. When BMD says there is no new news (and therefore no upd8), I suspect they really don't consider whatever reason(s) there might be for not shipping MFT cameras after taking a significant bite out of the EF backlog (what Grant committed to doing in his last upd8 a few months ago) actual new news and worthy of an upd8 under the current BMD policy of no upd8s until there is new news.

:?


Who's to say what we consider significant is what BMD do? Your making the assumption that they have passed the point they do. Listening to the cries of European people here few of them would consider the shipping so far a significant portion.
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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostFri May 03, 2013 5:56 pm

Pete Proniewicz-Brooks wrote:Who's to say what we consider significant is what BMD do? Your making the assumption that they have passed the point they do. Listening to the cries of European people here few of them would consider the shipping so far a significant portion.


Yes, you Europeans have been particularly well fried and you have my deepest sympathies. It is however, true that BMCC EFs are available on the shelves of many resellers now and most of the US preorders have been filled. The MFT is obviously being delayed. The reason(s) it is being delayed would seem to be "news" to me...but I don't have a copy of the BMD Semantic Dictionary at my disposal, so as you said: "Who's to say?"
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Rakesh Malik

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostFri May 03, 2013 6:05 pm

They're even stringing along their vendors right now. No one has any idea what's up. The word from the distributor is that they're expecting them "soon" but the word from BMD is "______". Sigh. I just hope it's imminent.
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Joseph Ciccarella

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostFri May 03, 2013 6:30 pm

Well, I guess we're S.O.L. Sounds like we're back to the waiting game of pain, which I must say is a drain on my brain and really quite lame and for some the bane of their main vein. Won't name any names but this whole train could drive a man..crazy.
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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostFri May 03, 2013 6:40 pm

mhood wrote:
Pete Proniewicz-Brooks wrote:Who's to say what we consider significant is what BMD do? Your making the assumption that they have passed the point they do. Listening to the cries of European people here few of them would consider the shipping so far a significant portion.


Yes, you Europeans have been particularly well fried and you have my deepest sympathies. It is however, true that BMCC EFs are available on the shelves of many resellers now and most of the US preorders have been filled. The MFT is obviously being delayed. The reason(s) it is being delayed would seem to be "news" to me...but I don't have a copy of the BMD Semantic Dictionary at my disposal, so as you said: "Who's to say?"


My guesses for the 3 most likely reasons for the apparent slow shipments of BMCC-EF cameras world-wide, and no "news" about or shipments of the BMCC-MFT, are:

A.) Blackmagic Design is restrained by access to capital (e.g.: they're low on cash/credit);

B.) BMD's manufacture of BMCC-EF & BMCC-MFT is restrained by the availability of sensors from their supplier;

C.) A combination of "B" above and: The BMCC-MFT will actually ship with an active MFT lens mount.

I tend to doubt reason "A" is the reason, but who knows, BMD's financials are a black box (no pun intended). But, if it were true, it would easily explain the apparent slow progress of shipping cameras. Unknowable, at least for now.

I think reason "B" above is the most likely reason because it's the simplest. It's also the reason BMD has stated the most often, and it's also the most common cause of slow shipments of similar devices from any manufacturer. It's possible that sensor production was going relatively well a few months ago (when we last heard from Mr. Petty), but has now hit a new snag, one which BMD hasn't told us about (yet). But we don't have any way to confirm it, so again: Unknowable.

Reason "C" seems less likely than reason "B", but very much a real possibility. BMD doesn't usually pre-announce "new" products. Their pre-announcing the BMCC-MFT was kind of an aberration, and in hindsight was premature, and ultimately a "mistake" if they afterwards decided to release the cam with an active MFT mount instead. So, reason "C" is a double-whammy: They can't make many BMCC cameras because of scarce availability of good sensors, and won't say anything about an active MFT version BMCC because they usually don't pre-announce "new" products. But again, unknowable.

There may be other reasons why we're seeing this scenario drag out, but my guess is the above are the 3 most likely reasons, with "A" being the least likely by far, and reason "B" being the most likely. But I could be wrong; these are just my guesses.

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Rakesh Malik

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostFri May 03, 2013 6:44 pm

Joseph Ciccarella wrote:Well, I guess we're S.O.L. Sounds like we're back to the waiting game of pain, which I must say is a drain on my brain and really quite lame and for some the bane of their main vein. Won't name any names but this whole train could drive a man..crazy.


Yes, that's an understatement. I think it's starting to drive vendors up the wall also, because their customers are clamoring for info and the vendors have none to give. The vendors are then clamoring for info to their distributors in the hopes of getting something that they can give to their customers, and the distributors are in the same situation of having only "soon" to offer.

The thing that's most irritating is that they made a big deal about their new gear without even giving a nod to people who've been waiting for their cameras.
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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostFri May 03, 2013 7:26 pm

As far as beta testing goes, I don't see why further beta testing is even necessary for this model. Unless it's just about getting a few cameras out there to confirm that the factory specs used for the M4/3 flange depth are precise and that the mount is solid -- if so fine. But besides that, this camera is identical to the alternate model in use by multitudes of EF users.

Of course there are tons of BMCC issues that still need to be sorted out via firmware, but that's no reason to hold off shipping MFT cameras to those of us who are well aware of said issues and can work around them for the time being. This isn't to say I don't appreciate the fact that BMD takes input from beta testers -- it's that type of stuff that will hopefully lead to us getting audio meters and being able to format drives in the camera. It's just that, unless I'm missing something, there are no plans to change the basic hardware (active MFT speculation aside), so I don't see the hesitance in getting some production MFT models out.

popcornflix

Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostFri May 03, 2013 9:05 pm

Folk, it's not rocket science. You beta test something because it's not ready yet. Brawley has posted images of the Pocket camera, noting that the active mount doesn't work right on some M43 lenses. It's not too difficult to imagine that they could be having the same problem with the MFT BMCC.

Also, it's no big mystery that we'd prefer an active mount. Since the Pocket Cam has an active mount, it seems likely that they're looking into using the active mount on the MFT BMCC.

My guess? The MFT isn't ready, and they don't want to tell us, because -- well, look how well it worked out when they told us what was wrong with the EF mount.

From now on, they're going to be as secretive as Apple, until they have something positive to show us.
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Ghassan Nazmi

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostFri May 03, 2013 9:09 pm

I've been waiting since September, almost 9 months, and its going to be another couple of months of delivery at least, when is this going to finish, My excitement for this camera is getting flatter and flatter.

Getting my camera couple of months before NAB2014 is not going to be nice since BMD is going to to make a new camera that its going to make the current 2.5k camera obsolete for sure, BMD should understand the fact that costumers are ordering a camera which is also tightened up with its time frame features, Im feeling that Im buying a camera that will come true a year after, at least Its real and happening. so what is the big hype about BMD philosophy in making an affordable camera that precedes any other company if its just true on paper not for practically real.
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John Bartman

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostFri May 03, 2013 9:33 pm

So after 5020 hits on the "SO IS THE ORIGINAL MFT DEAD OR ALIVE?" thread they shut it down.

The statistics speak their own language!
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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostFri May 03, 2013 9:39 pm

bartman wrote:So after 5020 hits on the "SO IS THE ORIGINAL MFT DEAD OR ALIVE?" thread they shut it down.

The statistics speak their own language!

That thread was locked because it was the same conversation as this thread.
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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostFri May 03, 2013 9:43 pm

Seal up all but one of the vents on a volcano and the top of the mountain blows off. :lol:
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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostFri May 03, 2013 9:49 pm

popcornflix wrote:Folk, it's not rocket science. You beta test something because it's not ready yet. Brawley has posted images of the Pocket camera, noting that the active mount doesn't work right on some M43 lenses. It's not too difficult to imagine that they could be having the same problem with the MFT BMCC.

Also, it's no big mystery that we'd prefer an active mount. Since the Pocket Cam has an active mount, it seems likely that they're looking into using the active mount on the MFT BMCC.


Yeah, I'm fully aware of why you beta test. Obviously, that's very important with a brand new camera with an entirely new set of features and requested fixes from users. BMCC passive MFT, as currently announced and sold to pre-order customers however, is not a concept camera being made from the ground up. It's a alternative lens mount on a previously designed camera that has been out in the wild with practically identical features for over half a year. Said camera has plenty of issues still, but those issues aren't preventing hundreds of BMCC EF owners from producing video content while firmware upgrades continue to come out.

If indeed the MFT model is becoming a active mount, then yes, I see the need for more beta testing for lens compatibility, etc. But that hasn't been announced and has been flat out denied by reps at NAB if I remember correctly. Additionally, as others have stated, it wouldn't have made a ton of sense for them to release passive MFT mounts to beta testers only to then shift to active MFT mounts a few week later. Stranger things have happened, but either way, a switch to active mount warrants an announcement. If BMD doesn't want to be open with the flow of information with regards to this speculation about changing the specs of a camera some have had on pre-order for over 6 months, then so be it. Doesn't mean they should expect people to be silent on this forum about it.
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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostFri May 03, 2013 10:09 pm

Colby Moore wrote:Doesn't mean they should expect people to be silent on this forum about it.


AFAIK they informed vendors that the MFT mounts were ready to go, and that they were just waiting to fulfill MFT mount orders until they'd caught up with EF mount orders. They also said that they were hoping to have the MFT models shipping by NAB...

And that so far has been their last word. It's no wonder that their preorder customers are getting increasingly irate, especially with new cameras being announced...
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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostFri May 03, 2013 10:21 pm

Tamerlin wrote:
Colby Moore wrote:Doesn't mean they should expect people to be silent on this forum about it.


AFAIK they informed vendors that the MFT mounts were ready to go, and that they were just waiting to fulfill MFT mount orders until they'd caught up with EF mount orders. They also said that they were hoping to have the MFT models shipping by NAB...

And that so far has been their last word. It's no wonder that their preorder customers are getting increasingly irate, especially with new cameras being announced...


Yeah, agreed. I like to think most of us have been pretty understanding until recently. There are, of course, a few who have been fed up to the point of threatening cancellation or poking fun at how the other models will never ship on time either, etc. But most of us are just kindly reminding BMD we would like some info on a camera we pre-ordered and want to have in our hands for work and play very much :)

I work at a motion picture rental house, so I'm used to delays with camera gear from all sorts of manufacturers and various levels of transparency in the shipping process. None of this is anything new. But this is a camera I paid for months ago, and I simply want to know a realistic ETA. It's human nature. I think I speak for most of us when I say that I'm not going to resort to name calling or low blows with BMD, but asking for shipping ETA's and product information updates is standard procedure any vendor should anticipate, so I'm not going to be made to feel like I'm out of line for asking for updates. If there's no info to be had since Christine isn't getting any new info from BMD headquarters, then I suppose that's what we all have to live with. But it's not going to stop us from asking again a week or two from now.
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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostFri May 03, 2013 10:33 pm

Colby Moore wrote:
Yeah, agreed. I like to think most of us have been pretty understanding until recently. There are, of course, a few who have been fed up to the point of threatening cancellation or poking fun at how the other models will never ship on time either, etc. But most of us are just kindly reminding BMD we would like some info on a camera we pre-ordered and want to have in our hands for work and play very much :)



It's harder to be understanding when to all appearances they don't give a diddly.

This will end up being a good case study in how to annoy your customers. Hopefully they'll knock the next three major releases (Pocket, Production, Resolve 10) out of the park, or else they'll just turn into a stepping stone to people moving up to Reds instead of continuing to use their cameras. On the plus side, once you have one it will be easier to wait for another when they announce yet another update, but this approach public relations only works if you're the only one in the niche...

... which BMD is at the moment.
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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostFri May 03, 2013 10:44 pm

Colby Moore wrote:If there's no info to be had since Christine isn't getting any new info from BMD headquarters, then I suppose that's what we all have to live with. But it's not going to stop us from asking again a week or two from now.

+1

I liken this (as to how I feel about it) to when, as a youth, my folks kept having to chase me back upstairs on Christmas Eve . . .
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Rakesh Malik

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostFri May 03, 2013 10:57 pm

dregenthal wrote:
Colby Moore wrote:If there's no info to be had since Christine isn't getting any new info from BMD headquarters, then I suppose that's what we all have to live with. But it's not going to stop us from asking again a week or two from now.

+1

I liken this (as to how I feel about it) to when, as a youth, my folks kept having to chase me back upstairs on Christmas Eve . . .


The difference there is that you have a pretty good idea about your timeline. Here we have none. We're also a captive audience, so we're really only putting up with this because there's no alternative available right now.
Rakesh Malik
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David Regenthal

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostFri May 03, 2013 11:04 pm

Agreed (was just talking about how "it felt" to me).

Then, adding in the "Ground Hog Day" factor, a "multiplier" effect, I see your point precisely.

Most other forums I participate in, I come to learn but here, not so much . . .
This disappointment is overwhelming (and also multiplied by the handful of jackasses that never contribute anything if value . . . except to prove how proficient they are at being negative).

I am not suggesting that you are one of these, only pointing out that the value of this forum is degraded by The behavior of a few . . . and that's a real shame.
Last edited by David Regenthal on Fri May 03, 2013 11:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Rakesh Malik

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostFri May 03, 2013 11:08 pm

dregenthal wrote:Agreed (was just talking about how "it felt" to me).


So was I (apply pronouns correctly of course).
Rakesh Malik
Cinematographer, photographer, adventurer, martial artist
http://WinterLight.studio
System:
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Alienware M15 Hexacore i7/32GB/1070 Max-Q
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Colby Moore

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostSat May 04, 2013 2:29 pm

If the moderators really want to cut down on the number of shipping related posts on a Cinematography forum, then there needs to be a sticky thread about this at the top. I know it's not the most glamorous thing to have at the top of the forum, but it would at least ensure that most of the discussion falls in the same place. The other MFT shipping post from around NAB had a ton more discussion, and now it's been locked and will fade into obscurity, leading to more offshoots like this one. In the interest of keeping all the discussion in one place, I really think a dedicated "Shipping Discussion" thread should be started. Perhaps even two, one for EF and one for MFT.
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John Bartman

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostSat May 04, 2013 8:19 pm

Image
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Alex Flazen

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostSun May 05, 2013 8:33 pm

It appears that the MFT model will start shipping in late September/October after the 4k production camera and Resolve 10 (starting end of July) and pocket camera (end of August in limited quantities). An active MFT mount for the 2.5k camera will be announced at NAB '14.
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John Bartman

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostSun May 05, 2013 8:58 pm

Where did that information come from?
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