MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

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Mac Jaeger

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu May 30, 2013 12:32 pm

A fair way to inform customers would involve disclosing numbers about how many cameras leave production and how many orders there are. But _every_ manufacturer of _any_ product will want to keep these numbers a secret, for economical reasons, and that should be understandable.

Pete Proniewicz-Brooks wrote:BMD have shown that their updates on shipping cannot be relied upon as they contiunually get how long it will take them to clear up the issues wrong.

Estimating how long it will take to "clear up an issue" is always hard, for once because usually the issue is - at least partially - out of your control.

Have you ever promised your spouse "i'll be home in an hour" because you only just had to finish something that seemed almost done? And then it took longer as you expected? And you wished, you hadn't promised her anything?

Sometimes it's better to promise nothing, than to make promises you can't keep. Still I'd prefere to at least get regular updates on what is going on, than the silent treatment.
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Jamesbiberi

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu May 30, 2013 12:52 pm

The lack of a response from Black Magic leads me to believe that there is a major problem going on with the production of the BMCC. While you can certainly get the camera in the USA, it seems there is quite a scarcity in the EU. I also believe that they are making a great product and I think that most people would be more understandable and not so frustrated if only Black Magic would put out a statement saying the truth.
The lack of a response from Black Magic regarding all the people on the forum is really what's getting people angry and frustrated. At this point, a simple "Sorry guys, we cannot yet give you a date as to when the MFT will be shipping because of ............(list reason or reasons)" , would be welcome, but no response after all this back and forth on the forums is disheartening!
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michael83

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu May 30, 2013 6:23 pm

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:
Did you actually read my post?

It sounds like you'll be happy if BMD tells you something that's likely to be:

1.) Not meaningful,
2.) Or, not accurate,
3.) Or, not make good business sense.

It's hard for me to understand how any of us benefit from any of those types of "updates", but you're welcome to wish for whatever you want.

For my part, my pipe dream is waiting for a BMPC-4K.

I stopped "defending" BMD quite a while ago. Simply dealing with facts (or a reasonable facsimile thereof) is difficult enough, let alone BMD's promises.

Cheers.

Well, I don't know if you have one of these on order or not, but in short; Yes, I would rather hear lies than silence, I'm tired of being ignored. Also, unless you actually work for them I don't see how could you know anything about shipping or manufacturing, you're just pushing your own assumptions as facts, and that for me is a very pretentious attitude.
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu May 30, 2013 6:44 pm

Pete Proniewicz-Brooks wrote:About shipping times I'd not trust them till they'd earned that trust back. About most other things they are perfectly fine, but shipping particuarly on the BMCC they just havent shown themselves to be reliable.


The "Peters" agree on this point, exactly! :lol:

(Well, at least I agree with you.)

Cheers.

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Fulgencio Martínez

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostFri May 31, 2013 1:19 pm

You can get a warning if you go OFF-TOPIC
But it would be nice to see Blackmagic go ON TOPIC about this
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Brian@202020

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostSun Jun 02, 2013 3:54 pm

Update please
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John Bartman

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostSun Jun 02, 2013 4:30 pm

Image
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jho

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostMon Jun 03, 2013 12:00 am

the next update. i think will be next month ( july) :shock:
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John Bartman

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostMon Jun 03, 2013 5:37 am

You are probably right.

Lets hope for the sake of all those people who have ordered the new cameras that the "update" isn´t going to be a notification of another "delay".

popcornflix

Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostTue Jun 04, 2013 7:35 am

I attended the CineGear Expo at Paramount Studios this weekend, and had a chat with a couple of Black Magic reps. I also test-drove the Pocket Cinema Camera -- sweet!

I asked a number of questions, and these were the answers I got back, after the two reps discussed my questions between them:

- They are working very hard to make the July delivery date for the PCC and the 4K. BMD wants to win back trust by shipping those new cameras by the promised date. It seems to mean a lot to them.

- They won't be building MFT units until all the EF backorders are filled.

- They have no idea if the MFT will ship by July.

That is all.
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Mac Jaeger

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostTue Jun 04, 2013 8:24 am

popcornflix wrote:I also test-drove the Pocket Cinema Camera -- sweet!

Maybe you could put your experience in words (in its own thread)? Would mean a lot to me, and probably others who are waiting for august (and then some...).

Did they bring a CC 4k to the Expo? It's somewhat disturbing that no one has seen one by now, 8 weeks before it's supposed to be available...
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Jules Bushell

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostTue Jun 04, 2013 10:14 am

popcornflix wrote:- They won't be building MFT units until all the EF backorders are filled.

- They have no idea if the MFT will ship by July.

That is all.

Okay so 2014 it is then!

Fairly, BM should only exclusively fill up EF orders to December 2012, when the MFT was announced for shipping, and then start to fill up MFT preorders as well.
I switched from EF to MFT so currently looks like I might be very heavily penalised for it with all those who ordered EF after December 2012 getting theirs first.

Jules
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bhook

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostTue Jun 04, 2013 11:29 am

popcornflix wrote:- They are working very hard to make the July delivery date for the PCC and the 4K. BMD wants to win back trust by shipping those new cameras by the promised date. It seems to mean a lot to them.


I'm not sure I understand how shipping the Pocket Cam and the BMPC by the promised d8 would win back the trust of the many MFT preorders. I would sure like to know if MFT sensors are being diverted to the Pocket Cam to get it rolled out in July.
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Fulgencio Martínez

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostTue Jun 04, 2013 3:27 pm

pocket and production cameras won´t be for july... anoyone wanna bet?
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John Bartman

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostTue Jun 04, 2013 3:38 pm

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John Bartman

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostTue Jun 04, 2013 9:02 pm

Please note, according to this BM statement, the BMCC and the Pocket cam do NOT use the same sensor:

Watch from 1'4"

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0T4nLL-osUo&feature=related
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Mac Jaeger

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostTue Jun 04, 2013 9:23 pm

Thanks for sharing this link, we've just discussed the same info (different interview, different BM rep, yet also taken at NAB) in the "Introducing Pocket CC" thread. Plot thickens... ;-)
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Fulgencio Martínez

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostTue Jun 04, 2013 11:07 pm

John Bartman wrote:Please note, according to this BM statement, the BMCC and the Pocket cam do NOT use the same sensor:

Watch from 1'4"

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0T4nLL-osUo&feature=related


According to half a year waiting the arrival of MFT without any kind of explanation
The lack of transparency
the absolute silence
How reliable is any word coming from people at BM?
of course it is the same sensor.. just repositioned so you can only use 1080p
else.. does anyone have an explanation of why it is off-centered? (not to talk about the many optical issues this will carry)
has anyone seen a camera with and off-center sensor before?
.
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Mac Jaeger

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostTue Jun 04, 2013 11:45 pm

Fulgencio Martínez wrote:does anyone have an explanation of why it is off-centered? (not to talk about the many optical issues this will carry)

The sensor is read line by line (rolling shutter); i guess if it was centered inside the cam you'd have to read out a lot of unused lines, wasting processor cycles and energy, and probably messing with the timing (couldn't set the shutter angle to 360°).
On the other hand: what "many optical issues" do you expect? If there was a 1080 / s16 sized sensor with the same DR available, they might have just used that one, wouldn't change the optical characteristics in any way.

Yet we're far off topic - how did we get here? Ah, let's see: we were musing if producing the Pocket CC would slow down production of the original CC 2k5, and thus further delay the mft version... Well, i don't think so; even if it's the same sensor there are other factors that limit assembly line throughput - i'm shure the sensor isn't scarce.
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John Bartman

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostWed Jun 05, 2013 4:55 am

This is one of the few "please update us threads" which for obvious reasons concerns the lack of info about the BMCC MFT´s.

I do not personally think that the MFT is being delayed due to sensors going to the pocket cam. It has been stated several times by BM reps that the BMCC and the Pocket cam do NOT use the same sensor (there is no reason to lie about this, in fact quite the opposite!).

I think the delay in the MFT is either because of the BM´s policy that backorders of BMCC EF´s are going out first (BM´s official reason), or, its due to some other hitch (could be some problems? reworking into active mount?, ?, ?)

Until we hear from BM, we will not know when or if the MFT will ship, but one thing seems certain, as we are hearing nothing, the MFT is sadly still a long way off....

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Alex Flazen

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostWed Jun 05, 2013 7:11 am

I don't understand how there are still backorders for the EF model. The camera has been in stock and readily available from a number of retailers for two months now...BH, Adorama, etc. There must be other reasons for the MFT delay.
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Jules Bushell

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostWed Jun 05, 2013 7:42 am

Alex Flazen wrote:I don't understand how there are still backorders for the EF model. The camera has been in stock and readily available from a number of retailers for two months now...BH, Adorama, etc. There must be other reasons for the MFT delay.

Might shock you to learn that there are other countries apart from USA (and maybe Japan) who have only received a trickle of EF cameras. Europe's largest retailer of pro cameras CVP, in the UK, is a year behind, still struggling to fulfill orders from June 2012. They have probably 100s of back orders still to fill.

It was explained by BM, can't remember where, that there is one distributor for the whole of Europe, one for North America etc. And each distributor gets equal amounts of EF cameras, regardless of how many are on pre-order for each distributor. Europe (about 50 countries there) must have obviously ordered many more cameras and is on average (I'm guessing here) still a whole year behind on pre-orders.

BM have stated they won't ship MFT until the EF pre-orders are filled. So officially that is the hold up for why no MFT cameras have shipped yet.


Jules
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Pete Proniewicz-Brooks

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostWed Jun 05, 2013 9:25 am

Alex Flazen wrote:I don't understand how there are still backorders for the EF model. The camera has been in stock and readily available from a number of retailers for two months now...BH, Adorama, etc. There must be other reasons for the MFT delay.


You must remember that by pre-orders BMD mean retailer pre-orders placed with them by the distributors.

The actual customer pre-orders have little to do with this, as their existences stops at the retailer, they may well affect the retailers own orders, but they may well have ordered over and above the amount that they have pre-orders for, or due to the delays have had a rash of cancellations.

It's entirely possible for BMD to be seeing a backlog of pre-orders at their end and everyone to have them available over the counter.

What would be great for the MFT crowd is that all the retailers who have fulfilled their pre-orders from customers, but not received their own pre-orders placed with the distributor, to allow for those that haven't to jump up the deliveries list, this would lead to their own customers getting MFT pre-orders sooner. However this system would only work if every retailer could be trusted not to try and game the system.

If they can BMD needs to do a full audit of orders etc to try and work out what they can do to prevent this happening again.
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John Bartman

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostWed Jun 05, 2013 6:38 pm

As many other people, I placed my order for the original BMCC early last year when it was first announced.
Then I switched to MFT as soon as it was announced. Then I waited and waited for news on the MFT while EF´s were being sent out to customers, including many who had only recently ordered.

We all know this situation and I think BM have made a huge PR blunder in the way in which they have chosen to handle the situation and have tarnished many customers trust for the company.

Now on a brighter note, for all of you waiting (in vain) for the MFT, I cancelled my MFT and ordered a EF which arrived within a week and can say that the camera works perfectly with adaptors (I use Leica, Nikon) and the quality the images the camera produces is truly amazing! So for all of you waiting for the (passive) MFT but are NOT planning on using MFT made lenses, the use of adaptors is not an issue.

Good luck.
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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostWed Jun 05, 2013 6:57 pm

John Bartman wrote:As many other people, I placed my order for the original BMCC early last year when it was first announced.
Then I switched to MFT as soon as it was announced. Then I waited and waited for news on the MFT while EF´s were being sent out to customers, including many who had only recently ordered.

We all know this situation and I think BM have made a huge PR blunder in the way in which they have chosen to handle the situation and have tarnished many customers trust for the company.

Now on a brighter note, for all of you waiting (in vain) for the MFT, I cancelled my MFT and ordered a EF which arrived within a week and can say that the camera works perfectly with adaptors (I use Leica, Nikon) and the quality the images the camera produces is truly amazing! So for all of you waiting for the (passive) MFT but are NOT planning on using MFT made lenses, the use of adaptors is not an issue.

Good luck.

This is my dilema :?:
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Kristian Lam

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu Jun 06, 2013 3:29 am

Hi,

The Pocket Cinema Camera shares the same sensor technology as the Blackmagic Cinema Camera EF and MFT but the sensor package is physically different. Therefore, sensors for the EF/MFT model cannot be used in the Pocket Cinema Camera and vice versa.

As for Blackmagic Cinema Camera MFTs, you'll be happy to know that they will ship really soon, possibly as early as next week.
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ungovernedreason

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu Jun 06, 2013 3:44 am

Of course...as soon as I changed my order to a pocket and spent the extra on gear...thanks for keeping us up to date...like wtf...
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Ghassan Nazmi

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu Jun 06, 2013 4:28 am

Kristian Lam wrote:Hi,

As for Blackmagic Cinema Camera MFTs, you'll be happy to know that they will ship really soon, possibly as early as next week.


how much effort did it take for 2 lines update!?

a little bit of relief, lets see, I will come back in 2 weeks not one!
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Jim DeLuca

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu Jun 06, 2013 4:42 am

Kristian Lam wrote:Hi,

The Pocket Cinema Camera shares the same sensor technology as the Blackmagic Cinema Camera EF and MFT but the sensor package is physically different. Therefore, sensors for the EF/MFT model cannot be used in the Pocket Cinema Camera and vice versa.

As for Blackmagic Cinema Camera MFTs, you'll be happy to know that they will ship really soon, possibly as early as next week.


Thanks Kristian!

Will there be a post when they start shipping, or we'll just know as people post when their cameras arrive?
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rick.lang

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu Jun 06, 2013 5:01 am

Kristian Lam wrote:Hi,

The Pocket Cinema Camera shares the same sensor technology as the Blackmagic Cinema Camera EF and MFT but the sensor package is physically different. Therefore, sensors for the EF/MFT model cannot be used in the Pocket Cinema Camera and vice versa.

As for Blackmagic Cinema Camera MFTs, you'll be happy to know that they will ship really soon, possibly as early as next week.


Thanks for the update. Very good news. And as they say, "better late, than never!"

Rick Lang
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John Bartman

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu Jun 06, 2013 5:29 am

Kristian Lam wrote:Hi,

The Pocket Cinema Camera shares the same sensor technology as the Blackmagic Cinema Camera EF and MFT but the sensor package is physically different. Therefore, sensors for the EF/MFT model cannot be used in the Pocket Cinema Camera and vice versa.

As for Blackmagic Cinema Camera MFTs, you'll be happy to know that they will ship really soon, possibly as early as next week.



Thankyou so much for keeping us updated all this time.
Anyhow happy for MFT customers.
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Joseph Ciccarella

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu Jun 06, 2013 6:07 am

Well, I've got 30 days to return the EF I just bought. I'm actually a little stunned by this nonchalant "possibly next week" delivery. It was so casually said that I'm not really sure why it couldn't have been said sooner. I'll believe it when I see it. Luckily I kept my preorder for the MFT just in case. We shall see.
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Kristian Lam

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu Jun 06, 2013 6:13 am

Jim DeLuca wrote:
Thanks Kristian!

Will there be a post when they start shipping, or we'll just know as people post when their cameras arrive?


Hi Jim,

Shipments will leave the factory today so I hope customers will start receiving them from the start of next week.
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Joaquin Torrents

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu Jun 06, 2013 7:01 am

Still waiting for my EF in Europe :(
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Mac Jaeger

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu Jun 06, 2013 7:15 am

Glad to hear that MFTs are on their ways - thank you for the update!
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Macielle

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu Jun 06, 2013 7:38 am

Kristian Lam wrote:Hi,

The Pocket Cinema Camera shares the same sensor technology as the Blackmagic Cinema Camera EF and MFT but the sensor package is physically different. Therefore, sensors for the EF/MFT model cannot be used in the Pocket Cinema Camera and vice versa.

As for Blackmagic Cinema Camera MFTs, you'll be happy to know that they will ship really soon, possibly as early as next week.


Hi Kristian,
Thank you so much for the update.
Will the camera ship with an active mount or passive?

Regards,
Rui
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Lorenzo Straight

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu Jun 06, 2013 7:42 am

Oh, Bartman, you just missed the MFT. You should be able to return.
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Kristian Lam

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu Jun 06, 2013 8:08 am

Macielle wrote:Will the camera ship with an active mount or passive?

Regards,
Rui


The camera is passive mount as per the specifications on the website.
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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu Jun 06, 2013 8:21 am

and when can we expect a firmware update?
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Taikonaut

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu Jun 06, 2013 8:34 am

Kristian Lam wrote:
Jim DeLuca wrote:
Thanks Kristian!

Will there be a post when they start shipping, or we'll just know as people post when their cameras arrive?


Hi Jim,

Shipments will leave the factory today so I hope customers will start receiving them from the start of next week.


Will Europe get the shipment the same time and same quantity as USA, Japan?
Doesnt matter to me because I cancelled mine. Was no 2 at CVP.
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John Bartman

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu Jun 06, 2013 8:38 am

Lorenzo Straight wrote:Oh, Bartman, you just missed the MFT. You should be able to return.


Lorenzo,

Yes, after this long wait and all the posts I could have been upset, but the fact of the matter is I am really enjoying the EF and with my Leica glass its giving me the fantastic results I had hoped for, so I will stay with the EF for now.

Glad that the waiting will soon be over for everyone who has been so patient for so long.
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Lorenzo Straight

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu Jun 06, 2013 8:41 am

Awesome, I'm glad for you.

John Bartman wrote:
Lorenzo Straight wrote:Oh, Bartman, you just missed the MFT. You should be able to return.


Lorenzo,

Yes, after this long wait and all the posts I could have been upset, but the fact of the matter is I am really enjoying the EF and with my Leica glass its giving me the fantastic results I had hoped for, so I will stay with the EF for now.

Glad that the waiting will soon be over for everyone who has been so patient for so long.
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John Bartman

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu Jun 06, 2013 8:46 am

Lorenzo Straight wrote:Awesome, I'm glad for you.


Thanks
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Macielle

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu Jun 06, 2013 8:49 am

Kristian Lam wrote:
Macielle wrote:Will the camera ship with an active mount or passive?

Regards,
Rui


The camera is passive mount as per the specifications on the website.


Thank you so much Kristian.

My personal needs right now, just made me cancel my order.

Either way I'm happy for all the users that have been waiting for soooo long for this amazing camera. It's a good day for independent filmmakers and I wish you can present us with some stunning moving images.

Regards,
Rui
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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu Jun 06, 2013 8:52 am

Kristian Lam wrote:
Macielle wrote:Will the camera ship with an active mount or passive?

Regards,
Rui


The camera is passive mount as per the specifications on the website.


I could have told you that :lol:
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Macielle

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Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu Jun 06, 2013 9:04 am

Taikonaut wrote:
Kristian Lam wrote:
Macielle wrote:Will the camera ship with an active mount or passive?

Regards,
Rui


The camera is passive mount as per the specifications on the website.


I could have told you that :lol:


ahaahah :) I thought after all this time they might put an active mount on it. Didn't look so hard to do it.

But, I bet there will be more opportunities for me to get a BMD camera in the future. No worries. :)

Still have a pre-order on the pocket camera. Let's hope it ships in July and with RAW recording. :)
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David Sandberg

  • Posts: 143
  • Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:56 pm
  • Location: Los Angeles

Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu Jun 06, 2013 9:13 am

David Sandberg wrote:Welp, by luck I happened to find a store in Sweden that had one EF-camera in stock so I bought that and just cancelled my MFT order.

I guess this is good news for the rest of you because with my luck this surely means the MFT version will ship tomorrow...

See, I told you... You're welcome people who didn't cancel their MFT's. :)

I couldn't wait any longer though and so far I'm happy with the EF version. But it would have been nice to have the option to use eventual speedboosters.
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Pete Proniewicz-Brooks

  • Posts: 277
  • Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:06 pm

Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu Jun 06, 2013 10:16 am

David Sandberg wrote:
David Sandberg wrote:Welp, by luck I happened to find a store in Sweden that had one EF-camera in stock so I bought that and just cancelled my MFT order.

I guess this is good news for the rest of you because with my luck this surely means the MFT version will ship tomorrow...

See, I told you... You're welcome people who didn't cancel their MFT's. :)

I couldn't wait any longer though and so far I'm happy with the EF version. But it would have been nice to have the option to use eventual speedboosters.



The question we must ask is why didn't you switch earlier, selfish I say :P
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Fulgencio Martínez

  • Posts: 166
  • Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:31 pm

Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu Jun 06, 2013 10:17 am

After months waiting, begging for any kind of news
Magic lantern announced a easier workflow for canon raw with uncompressed raw and cineform raw
and suddenly...
magically...
Blackmagic says MFT are ready
I know.. it is only a coincidence!!
No one knows how many of them are shipping.. since europe is still waiting for EF
since BM word has the hardly gained honour of being not worth the trust.. please if any of you gets a call saying your MFT is arriving, let us know
Anyway.. those who thought they might be building an active mount for months.. they were not! what were they doing? who knows!
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Fabián Matas

  • Posts: 130
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:35 am

Re: MFT BMCC - Please Update Us

PostThu Jun 06, 2013 10:26 am

Fulgencio Martínez wrote:magically...
Blackmagic says MFT are ready


¿Where?
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