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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:28 pm
by Francisco Rodriguez
A question to everybody... did Color Generation 4 ever came for the Original UM 4,6K?

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:44 pm
by Stephen Fitzgerald
No, not in camera...BUT, I you shoot cinema DNG you can choose it on the RAW tab on the color page. Basically the same in the simplest terms.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:37 pm
by rick.lang
As Stephen and CaptainHook mentioned, you select that Wide Gamut option now. That brings CDNG up to Colour Science 4.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:15 am
by Francisco Rodriguez
Stephen Fitzgerald wrote:No, not in camera...BUT, I you shoot cinema DNG you can choose it on the RAW tab on the color page. Basically the same in the simplest terms.


Yeah, that's what I thought... CDNG is very unpractical for me anyway... shame is not in camera... why would that be? sensor related?

It'd be great to get a Color Space transform option on the OFX menu in Resolve

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:58 am
by DorisLondon
Sadly this is the usual poor communication BM adopts , what make it Evan more painful is the fact that it was the boss himself who teased us with the BRaw update hope Nearly 1 year ago.

All you get from support is, "we have no plans at this time to update the Ursa mini 4.6k with the BRaw option "

Then why the hell!! tease us in the first place!!!!!


So BM at least kill this hope or at a minimum communicate with us!!!


Doris .

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:48 am
by Robert Niessner
Yep, we can endure the truth.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:24 pm
by timbutt2
I think Blackmagic Design lives by the Ari Gold rule:
arigold-silence.jpg
Silence is Golden!
arigold-silence.jpg (7.38 KiB) Viewed 21171 times

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:13 am
by timbutt2
OH SNAP!!!

Just got the e-mail with the tracking number information from B&H. My URSA Mini Pro G2 has shipped! EEEEK!!!

Only 3-weeks delay from the estimate B&H first gave me. Remember I ordered mine on June 4th. I can't wait to get the camera in my hands Saturday.

Still did 3 shoots recently that I wish could have been on it instead of the UM4.6K. Oh well. Still excited!

Ironically one of those shoots the director just announced release this Friday... without hitting me up about re-linking to the RAW files for color grade. His quote "I checked it on my 4K TV and it looked fine." I gave him UHD ProRes 422 Proxy files transcoded from the 4.6K CinemaDNG RAW files to edit. We'll have to see if I can get him to let me re-link to the RAW files and color grade it before release.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:10 am
by Donnell Henry
Congratulations Tim :D

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:38 am
by rick.lang
Can’t wait for Saturday’s review you’ll be sure to post!


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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:12 am
by timbutt2
rick.lang wrote:Can’t wait for Saturday’s review you’ll be sure to post!


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Give me a week, man. Sheesh! Haha.

I've already posted in the Model Network for some models to shoot tests. We'll see what I get. But it will be Monday & Tuesday that I get any models. Otherwise, it will be just going out and shooting. First thing Saturday and Sunday I have to finish projects that are needing to get finished for clients.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:16 am
by rick.lang
Just teasing, Tim. You’ve got a full plate but we shall enjoy it whenever it comes.


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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:10 pm
by timbutt2
I got my G2 today! Yay! Will see if I can shoot some test footage soon. Probably will be during Magic Hour today, and then tomorrow I'll go out and shoot a bunch of stuff.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:17 pm
by rick.lang
Congratulations. “On with the show; this is it.”


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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:37 am
by kristjan-Jaak
How many of us (UM4.6) owners are willing to pay for braw upgrade? I'M
Let's say I need 2 cameras to shoot, and one is G1 or G2 I can't have sam codec? :shock:

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:05 am
by DorisLondon
Now that is a excellent point.
And yes I would be prepared to pay for that upgrade as it would be a benefit to my storage costs particularly.
I'm sure there would be many other takers for that option.

Doris

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:22 am
by Stephen Press
I would pay :)

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:29 pm
by TomGruber
G2 owners that have acquiesced: this thread is only for us poor orig 4.6K plebs! Take your beautiful BRAW machines to the Look What I Shot thread. :D

Still would be nice to hear a yay or nay. Sometimes it feels like the engineers/comms team (is there one?) has some disdain for its customers. (We'll talk to you when we're ready! You get what you get!)

But.. we just want a yay or nay, guys.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:00 pm
by Chris Shivers
Robert Niessner wrote:I've to say to my hope has been severely degraded by the fact that it is now mid 2019 and still no sign of the braw update for the UM4.6k

Well it took about 6 months after BRaw was announced for the pocket 4K to get it, and right now it’s been four months since the pocket 4K was updated with it, so let’s wait till the end of the year

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:52 pm
by timbutt2
I’m actually doing a conference shoot today with the UMPG2 & UM4.6K. So, yes I would like the UM4.6K on Color Science 4.0 as well as able to shoot BRAW. It will be useful when doing multi-camera shoots like this.


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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:07 pm
by rick.lang
Tim, the 4.6K can do Colour Science ver 4 if you select it in Resolve. Just pick the Blackmagic Wide option.


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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:01 pm
by timbutt2
rick.lang wrote:Tim, the 4.6K can do Colour Science ver 4 if you select it in Resolve. Just pick the Blackmagic Wide option.


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We’re shooting ProRes for this conference, so technically it’s not going to be CS4.


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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:34 pm
by alexthevideoeditor
Is all hope for this dead? :?

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:50 pm
by timbutt2
alexthevideoeditor wrote:Is all hope for this dead? :?

I hope not. Purely because it would be nice for the UM4.6K to get BRAW. I'm loving it on the G2. So I hope it happens for everyone who is still on the UM4.6K. For me if I choose to keep my UM4.6K and not sell it because I can use it as a B-Cam then I really do hope it happens so that I can have the B-Cam be the same raw codec as the G2.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:48 pm
by Hussain Abdullah
This was just posted on BMD's Facebook page:

Blackmagic Production Update!

Please join our Facebook live event at 12 noon PDT Los Angeles time on Thursday August 8th to hear about new developments in cameras and post production. If you’re in New York it will be 3pm, in London 8pm and in Tokyo, join us at 4am on Friday 9th of August.


"New developments in cameras"... I probably shouldn't get my hopes up regarding BRAW for the UM4.6K, but I kinda do. :|

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:59 pm
by Gavin_c_clark
Finally we’ll hear some news on the ursa turret! :D

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:40 am
by Stephen Fitzgerald
IF they release BRAW to the 4.6k I’ll be surprised.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:04 am
by DorisLondon
Gavin_c_clark wrote:Finally we’ll hear some news on the ursa turret! :D
At least on the Turret we had a statement and a outcome from BM.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:51 pm
by Francisco Rodriguez
Dual ISO for the G2


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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:09 pm
by Valentin Remy
Aaaaand still zero news about BRAW for the 4.6k.

"k thx bye"

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:11 pm
by Stephen Fitzgerald
NO talk about the Ursa Line at all unless I missed it.

Guys, it’s time to give up on the 4.6k.

I’m calling this thread over. Truly a sad day.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:11 pm
by Francisco Rodriguez
Won’t happen...
All pocket now :)


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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:14 pm
by Francisco Rodriguez
Stephen Fitzgerald wrote:NO talk about the Ursa Line at all unless I missed it.

Guys, it’s time to give up on the 4.6k.

I’m calling this thread over. Truly a sad day.


Yeah, nothing for the ursas on next update at all...
Well, I guess the pocket is their flagship camera now... thoughts?


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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:26 pm
by Mark Grgurev
Francisco Rodriguez wrote:
Yeah, nothing for the ursas on next update at all...
Well, I guess the pocket is their flagship camera now... thoughts?


Nope the G2 still is. Flagship status is determined by way more than just recording resolution.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:35 pm
by Stephen Fitzgerald
A few used G1’s over on LensAuthority...

I suggest those who are still waiting take advantage. Still so many advantages to the Ursa line.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:42 pm
by Francisco Rodriguez
Mark Grgurev wrote:
Francisco Rodriguez wrote:
Yeah, nothing for the ursas on next update at all...
Well, I guess the pocket is their flagship camera now... thoughts?


Nope the G2 still is. Flagship status is determined by way more than just recording resolution.


Indeed...
I guess I was just hoping for better low light for my G2.
Felt quite envious when Grant talked about people shooting on moon light :)
Anyways... congratulations to BMD on their new camera... well done :)


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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:26 am
by Uli Plank
Even if the UMP G1 is not so bad with a good denoiser, like Neatvideo, I got me a nice second-hand Sony A7S (same sensor as A7S II). Still the queen of the night!

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:15 am
by timbutt2
Yeah, I'd say this was the nail in the coffin of the updates for the Original URSA Mini 4.6K. It probably won't get BRAW at this point, nor Color Science 4.

I'm happy I did the G2 upgrade nonetheless. I'll definitely be selling the UM4.6K down the line. Just getting the new Shoulder Mount Kit and Side Handle soon. I may end up getting a Pocket 6K as a B-Camera now however. That seems to work well enough and has some nice features.

I still loved the Resolve updates for today. And as well I loved what they announced for the Pocket 6K. I just wish there as a few things added for the G2 as well. Some nice improvements to the Pocket Camera line coming in 6.6 that makes me wish the G2 would get similar love.

We'll see what happens with 6.7 for the G2. My hope is Metadata and Bluetooth improvements with a few other things. But at this point I'm calling EOL on the UM4.6K and saying at least I have BRAW now with the G2.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:12 am
by rick.lang
“The Sound of Silence”


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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:22 am
by DorisLondon
Some of us have been saying RIP to this fantasy BRaw update on the Ursa mini for over 6 months now. Finally reality has set in for you all. This camera is no longer supported by BM.

Doris.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:53 am
by timbutt2
In defense of CinemaDNG RAW 4:1 at 1600 ISO I had an easier time using noise reduction on the footage than BRAW 12:1 at 3200 ISO. This is mainly a compression issue. I'll do further tests at 3200 ISO with BRAW Q0 and 3:1 to ensure that I'm mainly seeing the noise reduction causing certain blockiness as an artifact of the compression. I guarantee that's it.

Either way, I've still shot 120 FPS at 800 ISO and produced some gorgeous imagery at BRAW 12:1. So, it's all a matter of proper exposure. But every filmmaker worth their gumption should know exposure is key.

If anything I'm happy with the G2 purchase. However, I do still wish BRAW could have come to the original URSA Mini 4.6K. It would have extended the life of it to make it a great B-Cam or C-Cam. I honestly wouldn't mind holding on to it and having it become a crash camera. So...

:idea: :idea: :idea: PLEASE BLACKMAGIC ADD BRAW TO THE URSA MINI 4.6K SO IT CAN BE A CRASH CAMERA FOR THE URSA MINI PRO MATCHING!? PLEASE? THANK YOU! :idea: :idea: :idea:

I love you Blackmagic Design.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:06 pm
by timbutt2
Okay, the noise reduction on lower BRAW compression is better.

Either way, my tests have convinced me to not go above 1600 ISO in camera, but to instead do it in Resolve since the noise isn’t nearly as bad. Ironically I’m fussing about noise that looks like film grain anyways.

The more I play with BlackmagicRAW the more I love it. Also, I’m loving the G2. I’d definitely suggest making the upgrade.


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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:57 am
by Hussain Abdullah
Thanks for all the information, Tim. Since you also have the original UM4.6K before the G2, how do you feel about switching to a smaller LCD screen?

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:48 am
by JoshMallett
timbutt2 wrote:Yeah, I'd say this was the nail in the coffin of the updates for the Original URSA Mini 4.6K. It probably won't get BRAW at this point, nor Color Science 4.


You can easily get Gen4 Color Science out the URSA Mini 4.6k. Film in CinemaDNG > Open in Resolve > Convert to DNxHR files with Gen4 Color Science > Export > Edit in Premiere (or stay in Resolve if you like.)

Sure it's larger files and an extra step (transcoding) in the process, but I'm fine with this over giving those idiots more of my hard earned money. I'm not gonna keep enabling their neurotic behavior. I don't put up with it with the girls I date, I sure as heck won't put up with it with the companies I spend money on. BRAW is achievable on the UM4.6k. Re-read that last sentence as many times as you need to.

But don't make it sound like Gen4 Color Science isn't achievable out of the UM4.6k. Others have also claimed how CDNG is superior in quality to BRAW. The only thing that makes BRAW attractive is the smaller file sizes.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:41 pm
by timbutt2
Hussain Abdullah wrote:Thanks for all the information, Tim. Since you also have the original UM4.6K before the G2, how do you feel about switching to a smaller LCD screen?

I do miss the larger LCD Screen. I really liked it. But since I used it for 3.5-years I probably just have to re-wire my brain to working with the smaller screen. It's a fine screen, just smaller.

I also doesn't matter too much since I still use the Viewfinder for a lot or can use an external monitor. I have the 7" Video Assist 4K and think I may get the 5" Video Assist. However, first I'll wait for Blackmagic to update the Video Assists since I have a feeling that they're past due and the next update will be worth it. Maybe built-in Bluetooth enabling you to control camera settings and metadata like I've requested in the past.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:51 pm
by timbutt2
JoshMallett wrote:
timbutt2 wrote:Yeah, I'd say this was the nail in the coffin of the updates for the Original URSA Mini 4.6K. It probably won't get BRAW at this point, nor Color Science 4.


You can easily get Gen4 Color Science out the URSA Mini 4.6k. Film in CinemaDNG > Open in Resolve > Convert to DNxHR files with Gen4 Color Science > Export > Edit in Premiere (or stay in Resolve if you like.)

Sure it's larger files and an extra step (transcoding) in the process, but I'm fine with this over giving those idiots more of my hard earned money. I'm not gonna keep enabling their neurotic behavior. I don't put up with it with the girls I date, I sure as heck won't put up with it with the companies I spend money on. BRAW is achievable on the UM4.6k. Re-read that last sentence as many times as you need to.

But don't make it sound like Gen4 Color Science isn't achievable out of the UM4.6k. Others have also claimed how CDNG is superior in quality to BRAW. The only thing that makes BRAW attractive is the smaller file sizes.

Yes, Gen4 Color Science is possible to put into the UM4.6K. I just don't think at this point that firmware update will come because all further development on the UM4.6K seems to be done. As for getting Gen4 Color Science through shooting CDNG RAW and converting in Resolve. That's what I've been doing since it became available, but I'm more looking at ProRes when I'm talking about the UM4.6K getting the Gen4 CS update. I still have plenty of clients that want me to shoot and deliver to them ProRes source files. I don't edit those projects or have any part in post-production. So it would be better if Gen4 Color Science was on the UM4.6K for matching to the G2 when shooting ProRes.

No, there is more to BRAW than smaller file sizes that makes it attractive. I love the ability to embed LUTs, which can be turned off in the Color page of Resolve to start from Film Log to color grade. But also the Sidecar Files are another very attractive aspect. The footage does still feel like RAW in every way since I can shoot without baking in the color temperature and tint, can adjust ISO and exposure in post, and have access to RAW controls. Also, I'm pretty sure it's also 16-Bit Linear and 12-Bit LOG just like CinemaDNG. So it is RAW.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:53 pm
by Brad Hurley
timbutt2 wrote: However, first I'll wait for Blackmagic to update the Video Assists since I have a feeling that they're past due and the next update will be worth it. Maybe built-in Bluetooth enabling you to control camera settings and metadata like I've requested in the past.


I think they'd need some features like that to set the Video Assists apart from the competition, otherwise I wouldn't be surprised if BMD just lets them die. As far as I can tell there isn't anything the Video Assists do now that other monitor/recorders on the market can't do, and with the multiple recording options built into the Ursa there's not much reason to have an external recorder anyway (i.e., just an external monitor would be enough). I recently switched from the 5" video assist on my Micro Cinema Camera to an Atomos Shinobi (monitor only, no recording capabilities) and it's great -- far lighter and it runs for hours on one Sony battery. I only use the Video Assist when I need the security of redundant recording (which isn't otherwise available on the Micro).

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:53 pm
by Denny Smith
Yes, I agree, I sold my VA and use a SmallHD OLED Focus Monitor with my Micro Camera snd Ursa Broadcast when I want a larger monitor on it.
Cheers

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:49 pm
by Garth McCarthy
It"s 2019-08 and still no BRaw support for the older cameras. Lets be hones, I have the BMCC 2.5k and I have only used CinemaDNG 1st. I can see that this would be counter productive to sails for Black Magic Design if they did make BRaw available to older systems because what would prompt us sucker to by a new camera from BMD. I would love to buy the latest and greatest but I sadly don't have the cash to drop on a new camera. Sad the BMD just don't care to support earlier models of their cameras.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:08 pm
by Denny Smith
No body supports cameras that are out of production with her feature FW updates. Many manufacturers charge for FW updates that add new functionality, like Panasonic did with the FW update to add 60FPS recording to the AF100. Older BMD cameras also lack the processing power to deal with BRaw. If any camera would have received a Braw update it would have been the UrsaMini 4.6, but sadly not, and now it is EOL.

BMD has made many feature updates to all of their cameras, adding new functionality in addition to fixing issues, and all the updates were free!

You want BRaw, simple, you need to buy a new camera. ;)