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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:24 pm
by timbutt2
Can I send in my 4.6K and get that sensor put into the Pocket 6K body? I'd gladly do that. And, I'm serious that I would love if in place of the Pocket 6K EF there was a Pocket 4.6K EF. Shooting BRAW up to 60 FPS in 4.6K on a Pocket 4.6K would be fantastic as a little B-Camera and a camera to use in situations where there UMPG2 isn't as feasible.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:20 am
by JoshMallett
Denny Smith wrote:No body supports cameras that are out of production with her feature FW updates. Many manufacturers charge for FW updates that add new functionality, like Panasonic did with the FW update to add 60FPS recording to the AF100. Older BMD cameras also lack the processing power to deal with BRaw. If any camera would have received a Braw update it would have been the UrsaMini 4.6, but sadly not, and now it is EOL.

BMD has made many feature updates to all of their cameras, adding new functionality in addition to fixing issues, and all the updates were free!

You want BRaw, simple, you need to buy a new camera. ;)


I'll GLADLY pay for a BRAW FW update on the URSA Mini 4.6k. In fact, I'm pretty certain enough people on this forum would donate/pay enough to cover the day or 2 salary it would take one of their engineers to migrate the update over to the URSA Mini 4.6. Someone start the Fundraiser campaign. If even 100 people paid $100-$200 for the FW update that's $10-20k...MORE THAN ENOUGH to fund a day or 2 of work for an engineer + extra leftover for overhead AND profit and then some!

timbutt2 wrote:Can I send in my 4.6K and get that sensor put into the Pocket 6K body? I'd gladly do that. And, I'm serious that I would love if in place of the Pocket 6K EF there was a Pocket 4.6K EF. Shooting BRAW up to 60 FPS in 4.6K on a Pocket 4.6K would be fantastic as a little B-Camera and a camera to use in situations where there UMPG2 isn't as feasible.


Dude, serious question...are you EVER happy/satisfied??

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:55 am
by Stephen Fitzgerald
This grease is just for LOLs at this point, can someone just officially end it.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:48 pm
by timbutt2
JoshMallett wrote:
timbutt2 wrote:Can I send in my 4.6K and get that sensor put into the Pocket 6K body? I'd gladly do that. And, I'm serious that I would love if in place of the Pocket 6K EF there was a Pocket 4.6K EF. Shooting BRAW up to 60 FPS in 4.6K on a Pocket 4.6K would be fantastic as a little B-Camera and a camera to use in situations where there UMPG2 isn't as feasible.


Dude, serious question...are you EVER happy/satisfied??

Well, yes I am very happy and very satisfied with the G2 right now. I was spitballing a pretty cool idea for how to get BRAW to original UM4.6K users. They pay for a 4.6K Pocket camera. No dual ISO just the same sensor we're used to in the Pocket size. Also we then get 15-stops of DR in the Pocket.

I'm very much in the camp of being happy that I upgraded however. I got a great 3.5-years out of the URSA Mini 4.6K. And, yet I'm still getting life out of it as a B-Camera to the G2 right now. Even though it has CS3 in ProRes and no BRAW.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:41 am
by timbutt2
Thought I’d share this great Instagram post from the @ursamini account:
IMG_0953.JPG
IMG_0953.JPG (285.95 KiB) Viewed 15284 times

What do you guys think? BRAW for the UM4.6K with the unicorns?


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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:41 am
by timbutt2
Why not keep it alive?! Now that the URSA Broadcast has got BRAW, why can't the Original URSA Mini 4.6K? I think it's possible. The demand is there.

Now I do have the G2, so why do I keep up with asking... well, because I feel for those who haven't upgraded camera systems. Also, I still have my UM4.6K and would like to use it with the G2 using BRAW. BRAW is so much better than ProRes.

PLEASE :D :D :D

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:44 am
by DorisLondon
The Ursa mini 4.6k is discontinued! And of course doesnt feature on BM current camera list. The broadcast is on its current camera list and IS supported. The Ursa mini isn't supported. Simple. Even us begging won't help sadly.

Doris.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:04 am
by David Hutchinson
I think your answer is in the fact that BMD has prioritised other manufacturers' cameras over their own 4.6K. To me that says you are never getting it. They should lance the boil and say once and for all it can't happen. However my thanks do go out to BMD for the huge update to the URSA Broadcast.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:35 am
by Cptcarl
It should be possible with the VA. If the UMO does not get BRAW with it, they simply do not want to do it.
The reality is, that you can get for the amount spend on the VA and selling your UMO a used UMP G1.

I am probably the last of all UMO owners that has some kind of hope for BRAW. Especially with what Grant said in his presentation

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:26 am
by Valentin Remy
But with the new Video Assist, could it be that we could record BRAW with it on the 4.6k ?
If it's a hardware limitation of the camera, I don't see why the newer VA couldn't allow that.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:29 pm
by ricardo marty
[quote="Valentin Remy"]But with the new Video Assist, could it be that we could record BRAW with it on the 4.6k ?
If it's a hardware limitation of the camera, I don't see why the newer VA couldn't allow that.[/qu

The BMD video assist, atomos, convergent design all offer raw support but only to cameras that have raw output. Up to recently, this was only from SDI now it's available through HDMI.

Maybe BMD might offer a firmware update so that the camera can output SDI raw but that I think it would depend on the sensor. Sony did that with the fs700 and made it capable od sdi raw.


Ricardo Marty

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:35 pm
by Gavin_c_clark
The ursa mini can carry raw on the sdi- that’s how the ssd recorder works.

Whether it would work with the va no idea.

I think bm probably are working on braw for the 4.6 somewhere but it’s not going to be a priority

But I wouldn’t hold my breath, and given that braw wasn’t announced till 3 years after the camera debuted it would be a very generous thing to do

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:45 pm
by Denny Smith
It will be interesting to see if BRaw on the new VAs could support this output on the UM 4.6.
Cheers

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:38 pm
by timbutt2
Well tonight I’m shooting a fashion show with both cameras. BRAW on the G2 and UHD ProRes on the UM4.6K. So it would be nice if it can happen… but I’m not expecting it to happen anymore. Just asking just in case.


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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:41 pm
by Francisco Rodriguez
timbutt2 wrote:Well tonight I’m shooting a fashion show with both cameras. BRAW on the G2 and UHD ProRes on the UM4.6K. So it would be nice if it can happen… but I’m not expecting it to happen anymore. Just asking just in case.


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To me, more concerning than the codec is the color science...
How’s been matching both cameras for you?


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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:59 pm
by Jamie LeJeune
Francisco Rodriguez wrote:To me, more concerning than the codec is the color science...
How’s been matching both cameras for you?
I've shot multicam with Ursa Mini 4.6K, UMPG1 and UMP G2 — all matched just fine, no problem. All I had to do was tweak the color temp and tint for each camera.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:56 pm
by timbutt2
Francisco Rodriguez wrote:To me, more concerning than the codec is the color science...
How’s been matching both cameras for you?


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For the most part I can match the cameras through color grading. I’ve already profiles a PowerGrade I can use for when both are Log. With CinemaDNG I just have to put it in Color Science 4. Still I would love if Blackmagic could just give it CA4 natively.

The G2 (in 60 fps for slow-motion) was on the main runway for the fashion show and the UM4.6K was back stage for B-Roll/BTS. So that helps make it easier to match color science. With the G2 I had it at 800 ISO and have already checked changing to 1600 in RAW Tab in Resolve. So it looks great and the slow-motion was the best choice.

The conferences I’ve used both on are HD ProRes Proxy with G2 set to Extended Video and the UM4.6K set to video. I hand that footage off and haven’t heard any complaints yet. So that means they match fine in that situation.

Still if I do a short or feature I would want both on BRAW. BRAW is definitely better than CinemaDNG in my book. I’m loving it.


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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:12 pm
by Francisco Rodriguez
timbutt2 wrote:
Francisco Rodriguez wrote:To me, more concerning than the codec is the color science...
How’s been matching both cameras for you?


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For the most part I can match the cameras through color grading. I’ve already profiles a PowerGrade I can use for when both are Log. With CinemaDNG I just have to put it in Color Science 4. Still I would love if Blackmagic could just give it CA4 natively.

The G2 (in 60 fps for slow-motion) was on the main runway for the fashion show and the UM4.6K was back stage for B-Roll/BTS. So that helps make it easier to match color science. With the G2 I had it at 800 ISO and have already checked changing to 1600 in RAW Tab in Resolve. So it looks great and the slow-motion was the best choice.

The conferences I’ve used both on are HD ProRes Proxy with G2 set to Extended Video and the UM4.6K set to video. I hand that footage off and haven’t heard any complaints yet. So that means they match fine in that situation.

Still if I do a short or feature I would want both on BRAW. BRAW is definitely better than CinemaDNG in my book. I’m loving it.


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Agreed on Braw vs CDNG... Braw is great.
I’d like to also get Color Science 4 natively...
Anyway, glad is working for you guys.

I’m selling my 4.6k. Served me well.


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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:15 pm
by Roberto de la Torre
I though about purchase the new pocket but I said: wait!... I think my UM4.6K still better than P6K, isn't?
Sadly, seems BM haven't the intention to update one of his three better cameras so, time to say good bye to Blackmagic cameras.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:05 pm
by ricardo marty
Roberto de la Torre wrote:I though about purchase the new pocket but I said: wait!... I think my UM4.6K still better than P6K, isn't?
Sadly, seems BM haven't the intention to update one of his three better cameras so, time to say good bye to Blackmagic cameras.



Up Violins

Ricardo Marty

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:28 pm
by Francisco Rodriguez
Roberto de la Torre wrote:I though about purchase the new pocket but I said: wait!... I think my UM4.6K still better than P6K, isn't?
Sadly, seems BM haven't the intention to update one of his three better cameras so, time to say good bye to Blackmagic cameras.


Oh, radical...

It’ll be BMPCC 4k for me afterwards.


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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:39 pm
by Michael Moore
timbutt2 wrote:Now that the URSA Broadcast has got BRAW, why can't the Original URSA Mini 4.6K? I think it's possible. The demand is there.


Ursa mini broadcast has got BRAW? I don't see anywhere this confirmation. Where to look?

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:32 pm
by Denny Smith
It is coming in a new FW update, yet to be released. Grant made the announcement at his IBC opening remarks online presentation.
Cheers

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:20 pm
by Michael Moore
DorisLondon wrote:The Ursa mini 4.6k is discontinued! And of course doesnt feature on BM current camera list. The broadcast is on its current camera list and IS supported. The Ursa mini isn't supported. Simple. Even us begging won't help sadly.
.

In this logical reasoning the Ursa Mini 4K will receive BRAW because is yet sell by BM?

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:11 pm
by Roberto de la Torre
Francisco Rodriguez wrote:
Oh, radical...

It’ll be BMPCC 4k for me afterwards.


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What a fanboy comment was that? :lol:
I remind all you guys, we're still waiting for response from Blackmagic about BRAW on UM4.6K among other stuff.

Man, 4.6k is a great camera, in hard conditions works awesome, I'm pretty sure neither Pockets 4K or 6K could have endured the 45º punishment of hell with sand and wind

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:51 am
by Francisco Rodriguez
Roberto de la Torre wrote:
Francisco Rodriguez wrote:
Oh, radical...

It’ll be BMPCC 4k for me afterwards.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What a fanboy comment was that? :lol:
I remind all you guys, we're still waiting for response from Blackmagic about BRAW on UM4.6K among other stuff.

Man, 4.6k is a great camera, in hard conditions works awesome, I'm pretty sure neither Pockets 4K or 6K could have endured the 45º punishment of hell with sand and wind


What’s there not to be fan of?! :)


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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:26 pm
by Roberto de la Torre
Francisco Rodriguez wrote:]

What’s there not to be fan of?! :)


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:lol: You're right!

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:56 pm
by Dennis Sørensen
timbutt2 wrote:Can I send in my 4.6K and get that sensor put into the Pocket 6K body? I'd gladly do that. And, I'm serious that I would love if in place of the Pocket 6K EF there was a Pocket 4.6K EF. Shooting BRAW up to 60 FPS in 4.6K on a Pocket 4.6K would be fantastic as a little B-Camera and a camera to use in situations where there UMPG2 isn't as feasible.



Ya, lets just pretend that the big cooler inside the UM is not a thing ;)

Image

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:54 am
by Rolands Briedis
Is there any news/ hopes? Still missing BRAW on my Ursa mini 4.6k . I don't have the oportunity to upgrade the camera and somehow I feel left behind..

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:29 am
by John Morris
Not for the Ursa mini maybe, but the Broadcast is due to get Braw in November with the 6.7 update according to an BMD email IBC update I got today.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:08 am
by Andreas Eymannsberger
Dennis Sørensen wrote:Ya, lets just pretend that the big cooler inside the UM is not a thing ;)

Image


This would easily make for a pocket with rather ideal measurements :D And kind of fix the camera being twice as wide as it's tall and three times as wide as it's deep. So interesting that BMD went this route (compared to the original BMPCC which was just tiny after all, so it didn't matter) BMD is actually the only dedicated moving image camera manufacturer that builds a camera with an absurdly wide form factor for it's size, which is not what most camera accessories are accounting for. Just my opinion.


Back to topic: This is a really strange question and would only be a workaround for UM46 users, but wouldn't it be possible to get a software braw decoder? I assume the SDK only covers decoding, encoding ist still proprietary?
It would be just a workaround, I agree. But instead of never seeing braw coming out of the UM46 and if this is possible with the SDK, would this be a future option?

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:19 pm
by Valentin Remy
John Morris wrote:Not for the Ursa mini maybe, but the Broadcast is due to get Braw in November with the 6.7 update according to an BMD email IBC update I got today.


Hopefully, 4.6k after that !

Yes, I still have hope :D

Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:53 am
by carlomacchiavello
... sorry wrong place

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:33 pm
by James Alexander Barnett
Valentin Remy wrote:
John Morris wrote:Not for the Ursa mini maybe, but the Broadcast is due to get Braw in November with the 6.7 update according to an BMD email IBC update I got today.


Hopefully, 4.6k after that !

Yes, I still have hope :D



It's dead bro, I was speaking with a BM guy at the post-IBC show at CVP and whilst he didn't give me a 100% definitive answer I said to him, "B-Raw isn't coming to the 4.6k is it?!" to which he replied, "I don't think so."

So I really wouldn't hold out much hope, I'm holding onto mine until they announce their new camera next year which is the time I will upgrade.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:32 pm
by timbutt2
Valentin Remy wrote:
John Morris wrote:Not for the Ursa mini maybe, but the Broadcast is due to get Braw in November with the 6.7 update according to an BMD email IBC update I got today.


Hopefully, 4.6k after that !

Yes, I still have hope :D

I'm holding out hope for a miracle as well. Mainly so I can shoot BRAW on it as a B-Cam while shooting BRAW on the G2. I'm loving the G2 so much that that's my main camera. If I am using the original UM4.6K as a B-Camera it's during ProRes shoots. So I am still making money with it occasionally.

Tomorrow for example I'm doing interviews with both the G2 as A and the OUM as B. Both will be shooting HD ProRes.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:50 am
by DorisLondon
A camera software update for a Discontinued Product!
has that ever happened ?
Examples please.

Doris.

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:33 am
by Adam Silver
DorisLondon wrote:A camera software update for a Discontinued Product!
has that ever happened ?
Examples please.

Doris.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


It happens with iPhone all the time.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:13 pm
by Stephen Press
DorisLondon wrote:A camera software update for a Discontinued Product!
has that ever happened ?
Examples please.

Doris.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


SONY PMW350 XDCAM a camera from 2012, still getting firmware updates last year.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:17 pm
by DorisLondon
Oh wonderful.no problem here then.
Can't wait for the new 4.6k braw update.
Won't be long now lads!!

Doris.

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:44 am
by Stephen Press
I won't hold my breath :)

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:32 am
by timbutt2
This Christmas Santa will bring a miracle and BRAW will come to the UM4.6K and all the naughty kids who didn’t believe will be left with coal in their stockings.


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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:32 am
by DorisLondon
As far as I know Santa Claus's powers are mythical, I could be wrong here?
Hmmm? similar to BMs 4.6k BRaw update.lol.

Doris.

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:47 pm
by Rolands Briedis
It will hapen. Just be patient. And believe. This Christmas.

DorisLondon wrote:As far as I know Santa Claus's powers are mythical, I could be wrong here?
Hmmm? similar to BMs 4.6k BRaw update.lol.

Doris.

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:46 pm
by timbutt2
BRAW 1.6 just came out with the support for the URSA Broadcast. So that means a camera update is imminent. Hopefully that includes an update for the 4.6K.


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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:00 am
by Garth McElroy
I'm kind of puzzled as to why Blackmagic won't just say yes or no on this. A lot of topics on here receive swift replies from Blackmagic employees. Obviously they read the forum. I don't think they're going to hurt anyone's feelings or cause a major backlash over not bringing braw to an out of production camera. Just give a yes or no already and end it. I'll continue to happily use mine either way.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:31 am
by DorisLondon
I can only assume BM just hopes this topic becomes old news, especially as BM initially said around a year ago!!! That they had been working on this BRaw software update for the Ursa mini 4.6k, then it all went silent, then after various unconfirmed rumours floating around that they had now dropped it altogether? then BM discontinued this product and have naturally moved on to other gear.

It's very odd behaviour from a so called legit company. Particularly as they started all this off in the first place back when the CEO announced BRaw. Then dangled the carrot

" we hope in the future to bring this option to other cameras "

So BM Just tell us . Yes? Or No.

Then that's the end of it!

Is that so hard to do?

Doris.

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Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:43 pm
by ricardo marty
[quote="DorisLondon"]

It's very odd behaviour from a so called legit company. Particularly as they started all this off in the first place back when the CEO announced BRaw. Then dangled the carrot

" we hope in the future to bring this option to other cameras "

So BM Just tell us . Yes? Or No.

Then that's the end of it!

Is that so hard to do?

Doris.

To me, that meant other camera manufacturers that are free to implement or through the new video assist in some future firmware update and if the um 4,6 is capable we will know then.

Ricardo Marty

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:32 am
by JoshMallett
Rolands Briedis wrote:It will hapen. Just be patient. And believe. This Christmas.


This would honestly be the Christmas gift of the decade.

Blackmagic, please don't be Scrouge to us this year.

#ALLIWantForCHRISTmas

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:25 am
by Robert Niessner
I would be happy if we just could get all of the current little feature and usability improvements and latest color science in a firmware update for the UM46k. Maybe they are able to do this, but can't get BRAW to work on the UM46k's hardware. And because of the RED RAW codec law suit threat they are stuck with not getting the update out, because they would have to remove CDNG RAW but can't replace it with BRAW? So they are sitting it out like the turret update for the big URSA.

Like Doris wrote, I'd very much prefer an honest sorry, we could not make it work, it's over. I wouldn't think lesser of a company just because they couldn't overcome a hardware restriction.

Or - if they are still working on the implementation, give us a short progress update. Just being silent isn't the way to a good customer relationship.

Re: Blackmagic RAW on the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:04 pm
by DorisLondon
Yes indeed, I didn't really want to remind members of the " Turret " upgrade Saga!! And what a saga it was for BM.

Poor decisions, Poor communication and finally inadequate information over a prolonged period of time for customers.

Hmm....Kind of a near repeat of this current 4.6k BRaw update mess really.

Doris.

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