BMCC FAN NOISE

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WAUU

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BMCC FAN NOISE

PostSun May 12, 2013 9:39 pm

Hi,

My blackmagic cinema camera's fan suddenly started running on full power and won't calm down. I haven't had this problem earlier, but all of a sudden one day. It just keeps on working and won't stop. Anyone else had this problem? What do you suggest I should do?

Thanks, Robert
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sean mclennan

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostSun May 12, 2013 9:52 pm

is it hot?

My runs as soon as I turn mine on...does it have multiple speeds?
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WAUU

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostSun May 12, 2013 9:54 pm

No, it's not hot.

I was shooting the other day and the camera became insanely hot and from that day on the fan just won't cool down.

Before I couldn't hardly hear the fan. And now it's like full throttle, almost as if the camera thinks that it's hot, but it's not.

If you get what I mean? Can this be fixed?
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sean mclennan

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostSun May 12, 2013 10:04 pm

Have you contacted BM? I know they have a replacement fan they can ship you....
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostSun May 12, 2013 10:11 pm

WAUU wrote:Hi,

My blackmagic cinema camera's fan suddenly started running on full power and won't calm down. I haven't had this problem earlier, but all of a sudden one day. It just keeps on working and won't stop. Anyone else had this problem? What do you suggest I should do?

Thanks, Robert


What troubleshooting have you done?

What's the ambient temperature in the room/location when the problem happens? Is the cam indoors or in the shade or in direct sunlight?

Does the problem happen when there's no SSD in the cam?

You're using one of the recommended SSDs, right?

Have you tried using a different (formatted) SSD?

Which version of the firmware is installed in your cam?

Have you tried reinstalling or updating the cam's firmware?

Answers to questions such as the above may be helpful to BMD technical support.

Let us know what you find out.

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WAUU

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostSun May 12, 2013 10:35 pm

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:
WAUU wrote:Hi,

My blackmagic cinema camera's fan suddenly started running on full power and won't calm down. I haven't had this problem earlier, but all of a sudden one day. It just keeps on working and won't stop. Anyone else had this problem? What do you suggest I should do?

Thanks, Robert


What troubleshooting have you done?

What's the ambient temperature in the room/location when the problem happens? Is the cam indoors or in the shade or in direct sunlight?

Does the problem happen when there's no SSD in the cam?

You're using one of the recommended SSDs, right?

Have you tried using a different (formatted) SSD?

Which version of the firmware is installed in your cam?

Have you tried reinstalling or updating the cam's firmware?

Answers to questions such as the above may be helpful to BMD technical support.

Let us know what you find out.

-



The camera is indoors. Room temperature. The fan just kicks in as soon as I switch it on.

The thing is that this is a problem that just appeared out of the blue. Yes I have been shooting before this and the camera got really hot, so it's maybe not just out of the blue. But it's since that event that the fan just keeps on rolling.

I tried different SSD's, all approved, haven't had any problem with them before. The fan works on full throttle even when there is no SSD inside it. So it's not this.

I have version 1.2 and I have installed and reinstalled, but it keeps on coming....hmmmm

What should I do. The damn fan just won't stop :(
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Darryl Gregory

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostSun May 12, 2013 10:55 pm

unplug the fan, turn camera on for 2 seconds, then turn it off and plug the fan back in an start the camera again, see if it runs full blast.

Blaine Russom

Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostSun May 12, 2013 11:04 pm

My fan in both my cameras turn on as soon as I turn on the camera.. this is normal.. And I usually run them for 30-45+ minutes.. where it gets really hot.


The only thing I can think of is if there is dust build up (that could interfere with the cooling). If you find it's running hotter than usual, try taking out the fan (through the port at the bottom) and blowing it with compressed air to clean it.
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostSun May 12, 2013 11:07 pm

Darryl Gregory wrote:unplug the fan, turn camera on for 2 seconds, then turn it off and plug the fan back in an start the camera again, see if it runs full blast.


That's worth trying. Might not make a difference, but what the heck. There are instructions on how to remove/unplug the fan on page 52 in the BMCC user manual.

If the above doesn't make a difference, another question:

Does the problem happen when the camera is operating from its internal battery, or only when connected to an external battery, or both?

If none of the above resolves your issue, contact your dealer or Blackmagic Design technical support directly.

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simonkn

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostSun May 12, 2013 11:47 pm

Get it sorted soon otherwise DPs or Directors will think there's a Red in the building....

Sounds like yours was having a problem by NOT turning on before!

Any settings in the camera to adjust fan speed?
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostMon May 13, 2013 2:37 am

simonkn wrote:... Any settings in the camera to adjust fan speed?


No.

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simonkn

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostMon May 13, 2013 7:28 am

I take it a thermistor cuts the fan in at a certain temp? I wonder if its a design feature and the one camera that doesn't do it has just started to do it 'properly' or is it a design flaw and the cameras are heating up too high or too quickly?

Anyone using any high current add-ons?
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steve2000

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostMon May 13, 2013 8:05 am

Ok, firstly ignore all that stuff about the SSDs, its nothing to do with that. If it was (and thats very unlikely) you'd have had the problem from the get-go. Ok, variable fan control systems usually work in one of two ways and your possible actions are dependent on which one it is:

1. Closed Loop control - the software reads the temperature sensors periodically and changes the pulse width to the fan to change the speed and keep the temperature within the specified acceptable range. Normally this has a secondary aspect in which the fan control subsystem reads a tacho on the fan via a hardware register to find out its RPM. - If this is the method used then the likely issues are unable to read the fan tacho or a temperature sensor failure. In well designed software this should be a failsafe situation. In order to protect the camera the software will max-out the pulse width to ramp the fan right up to prevent any overheating. In other words it doesn't know if the camera is overheating or not or if the fan is working, so its safer for the rest of the camera if it assumes everything's gone wrong and maxes out the cooling.

If the fan is user dis-connectable without voiding warranty, disconnect it, do a quick visual check of the connectors to look for any obvious damage or dirt and replace the connector (very carefully clean if necessary). Restart the camera, if the problem still exists you may need to return the unit as it could be either a temperature sensor or the tacho read thats failing - BUT NOT YET - KEEP READING. I guarantee that there is a way to read both the temperature sensors and tacho on the camera, you just dont have access to it. If you did you'd be able to identify which element had failed. But read 2 below as this also has a bearing on this method as closed loop systems often use cal tables as well as tacho reads and the same procedure may still resolve the issue.

2. Open loop - this uses the temperature sensors and a calibration table, usually provided by the fan manufacturer and embedded in the software which gives the airflow/Pulse width/RPM correlation. If this has become corrupted by, say, an errant pointer and become invalid again the camera should fail-safe (decent software has a checksum for the cal records so it can tell if they get corrupted).

If this has occurred and BMD software engineers are smart, then the cal table should be in the software binary, so reflashing your camera may restore the cal table and get the camera back to normal. However, this does not preclude the problem from re-occurring or that errant pointer from doing worse, so if this solves your problem MAKE SURE YOU STILL REPORT IT AND ITS RESOLUTION (reflashing) to BMD. It may affect others and a simple run with Coverity or similar will help the engineers find the cause.

So as we dont know which fan control method is in use, try the software re-flash first (as it doesn't involve playing with the cameras innards) then the fan disconnect etc. If neither works then it time to chat with BMD tech support I'm afraid.

Hope this helps
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Luke Armstrong

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostMon May 13, 2013 9:17 am

Do what steve2000 said!

I noticed you mentioned you were running firmware 1.2, have you tried 1.3? Might be worth giving this a go to see if it solves your issue.
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John Brawley

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostMon May 13, 2013 1:19 pm

The fan runs a a constant speed. It's not temperature dependent or variable.

If your fan has suddenly gone noisy, it's probably just faulty and should be replaced. This is designed to be user replaceable ( read the manual ) or you can et in touch with BMD.

JB.
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steve2000

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostMon May 13, 2013 1:36 pm

John Brawley wrote:The fan runs a a constant speed. It's not temperature dependent or variable.

If your fan has suddenly gone noisy, it's probably just faulty and should be replaced. This is designed to be user replaceable ( read the manual ) or you can et in touch with BMD.

JB.



That is a surprise. I would have expected some degree of active temperature control, especially considering the wide range of conditions in which the camera is likely to be used. Additionally its hardly the most power efficient method of keeping the camera within spec. Just out of curiosity John, how noisy is the fan in normal operation?
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John Brawley

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostMon May 13, 2013 2:04 pm

steve2000 wrote:
John Brawley wrote:The fan runs a a constant speed. It's not temperature dependent or variable.

If your fan has suddenly gone noisy, it's probably just faulty and should be replaced. This is designed to be user replaceable ( read the manual ) or you can et in touch with BMD.

JB.



That is a surprise. I would have expected some degree of active temperature control, especially considering the wide range of conditions in which the camera is likely to be used. Additionally its hardly the most power efficient method of keeping the camera within spec. Just out of curiosity John, how noisy is the fan in normal operation?



Steve.

A simple search will tell you what you need to know.

The fan is not the only method used to cool the camera.

JB.
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sean mclennan

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostMon May 13, 2013 3:01 pm

John Brawley wrote:The fan runs a a constant speed. It's not temperature dependent or variable.

If your fan has suddenly gone noisy, it's probably just faulty and should be replaced. This is designed to be user replaceable ( read the manual ) or you can et in touch with BMD.

JB.


In other words..RTFM :lol:
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostMon May 13, 2013 3:33 pm

steve2000 wrote:... so reflashing your camera may restore the cal table and get the camera back to normal. However, this does not preclude the problem from re-occurring or that errant pointer from doing worse, so if this solves your problem MAKE SURE YOU STILL REPORT IT AND ITS RESOLUTION (reflashing) to BMD. ...


Reflashing his camera's firmware was suggested in a post yesterday, to which he replied that he tried that and it didn't address his issue.

And, as someone else suggested, it would worth his trying firmware 1.3 to see if it kicked his cam's firmware upside the head in a way that 1.2 did not.

As you say, it may or may not resolve his issue, but is worth trying since it's easy to do.

He was also encouraged in previous posts to contact BMD tech support to report the problem, and to tell them what troubleshooting he'd tried.

Cheers.

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WAUU

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostMon May 13, 2013 7:04 pm

I just tried all the tips you guys gave me. Thank you for actively trying to help me out. But even upgrading to v1.3 didn't help.

The thing is I had a really long shoot, the camera got hot as hell. I mean you could almost burn yourself by touching it. Then I packed it away and didn't think more about it. Then from that day on, every time I turn the camera on the fan is full power. Almost like a hair dryer, of course not that loud, but you can feel the air very clearly if you put your hand under it.

Maybe John Brawley is right here, I maybe need to take it to service????

Can't I just order the fan somewhere and change it myself so I don't have to send in the camera????
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sean mclennan

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostMon May 13, 2013 7:23 pm

There is no half or full power...there is only one speed. ON or OFF.

As others, including John, have indicated, the body is part of the active cooling solution. It's supposed to get hot.

If your fan is making a lot of NOISE, then you should replace it. Yes, you can order just the fan and replace it yourself. Instructions are in your manual.

Otherwise, sounds like it's operating normally.
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Christine Peterson

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostMon May 13, 2013 7:30 pm

WAUU wrote:I just tried all the tips you guys gave me. Thank you for actively trying to help me out. But even upgrading to v1.3 didn't help.

The thing is I had a really long shoot, the camera got hot as hell. I mean you could almost burn yourself by touching it. Then I packed it away and didn't think more about it. Then from that day on, every time I turn the camera on the fan is full power. Almost like a hair dryer, of course not that loud, but you can feel the air very clearly if you put your hand under it.

Maybe John Brawley is right here, I maybe need to take it to service????

Can't I just order the fan somewhere and change it myself so I don't have to send in the camera????

I believe you can have a replacement fan sent to you and you can replace the fan yourself. The phone number for your region's support office can be found here: http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/company/

See page 53 of the BMCC manual: http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/media/5 ... Manual.pdf

Your camera contains a fan, which is necessary for cooling. If you detect that the fan is not working, or that it is making a strange noise, switch off the camera and order a replacement fan by contacting Blackmagic
Design Support. You should use an anti-static strap to avoid damaging the camera while opened.

To replace the fan, start by switching off the camera and then remove any external cables.

Place the camera upside down on a bench, with the tripod hole facing up, and the touchsceen facing towards you. You will see a metal panel labelled "Fan". This panel is attached to a fan module inside the camera. Remove the four screws from this panel using a number 01 size Phillips head screwdriver. Thread-locking fluid has been applied to the screws which will require additional force to unscrew them. Keep the screws as you will need them again.

Gently lift the fan module up and out of the camera, taking care NOT to pull the wires that connect to the inside of the camera. Accidentally pulling on these wires could cause them to become unplugged from an inaccessible location inside the camera, which would need to be fixed by a Blackmagic Design service center.

Locate the white plastic plug a short distance along the wires from the fan. Pull the plug apart using both hands so that no stress is placed on the wires that continue inside the camera. You can now discard the old fan module.

Connect the white plastic plug to the wires of the replacement fan module. Reinstate the fan module in its hole with the "Fan" label the right way up. The fan module can only be installed in one orientation. Reinstate the four screws into the fan plate to finish replacing the fan.

Switch on the camera and you should feel a gentle flow of air coming from the vent holes in the fan module.
Christine Peterson

(Previously Community Relations Manager for Blackmagic Design)
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John Brawley

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostMon May 13, 2013 9:45 pm

WAUU wrote:I just tried all the tips you guys gave me. Thank you for actively trying to help me out. But even upgrading to v1.3 didn't help.

The thing is I had a really long shoot, the camera got hot as hell. I mean you could almost burn yourself by touching it. Then I packed it away and didn't think more about it. Then from that day on, every time I turn the camera on the fan is full power. Almost like a hair dryer, of course not that loud, but you can feel the air very clearly if you put your hand under it.

Maybe John Brawley is right here, I maybe need to take it to service????

Can't I just order the fan somewhere and change it myself so I don't have to send in the camera????



As has been mentioned the camera body can be expected to get warm, and even hot if it's been on for a long time.

It's a metal body and the body itself is part of the cooling system. The sensor is also cooled by a Peltier or solid state refrigerator. But when keeping the sensor cool, the heat has to go somewhere. It's transferred to the aluminium body of the camera AND through the air moved by the fan underneath.

As mentioned in the manual, the fan should be easily replaced. Some have mentioned that you should take care with the screws as the small screws are secured with locktitie and you should make sure you can break that initial adhesive.

jb
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Thorstenhary

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostSun May 26, 2013 6:38 pm

Any news on this? Started happening to my camera today as well. Long shoot on saturday, turned the camera on today only to have it blowing at full whack right out of the gate, really just like a hairdryer. It´s not so much the noise but really a just LOT of air blowing from it. A lot more than usual. Didn´t really notice the fan much at all before.
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WAUU

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostMon May 27, 2013 1:12 am

I have contacted Blackmagic support. Still waiting for their answer. I will keep you updated if anything new happens. Please post what happens with your camera and if you solve it. I have the same damn problem.
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pabblo

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostMon May 27, 2013 2:37 pm

Guys! can you give some infromation about a normal functionable fan noise level. Cause ive got my new bmcc today and not sure its ok or not.
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Rudy Satria

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostWed May 29, 2013 12:36 pm

I still can hear the fan noise from my BMCC even just a little. i dont think i would record audio directly from BMCC even using an external microphone. :?
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sean mclennan

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostWed May 29, 2013 3:07 pm

pabblo wrote:Guys! can you give some infromation about a normal functionable fan noise level. Cause ive got my new bmcc today and not sure its ok or not.


Do you have any reason to think it's NOT ok? It has a fan...the fan runs. This is normal. Do you hear a loud buzzing sound? no? then it's fine.
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pabblo

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostWed May 29, 2013 3:16 pm

Ive tried to record start up of my bmcc:

http://www.file-upload.net/download-764 ... 1.wav.html
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostWed May 29, 2013 3:33 pm

Generally, posting a recording of your BMCC fan noise isn't very helpful, because it's almost impossible for us listeners to know what the relative sound levels are.

In my limited experience, the BMCC fan sound level is similar to the sound of a desktop PC's spinning hard disk drive -- not the sound of the noisy fan in a desktop PC, just the sound of the HDD itself. In other words, a fairly quiet, constant, low whirring sound.

If instead your BMCC fan sounds more like a noisy hair dryer, then it's defective and should be replaced as per the instructions on page 52 in the BMCC user manual. Or contact your dealer or BMD directly for a replacement.

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Tobias Castorph

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostWed May 29, 2013 5:56 pm

in order to compare the fan noise it could be useful to use the internal mic: it is located quite close to the fan (just below the lens mount). Just put the level slider for the internal mic to 100% and roll the camera in a quiet room for some seconds. You will hear the fan like some kind of noise. If you open these files in your NLE you could monitor the level of the noise. At least it would make it comparable.

Make sure you use the same firmware!!
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WAUU

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostWed May 29, 2013 7:29 pm

Here comes a conclusion to the BMCC FAN NOISE issue I had.

The fan noise I had was not normal. As I compared to other BMCC's my friends have.

So I sent an e-mail to BMCC support which was very helpful. They sent me a link to update 3.1 and whoopsss! The fan returned to "normal" sound levels as it was "before" the long shoot.

So I recommend updating to v 3.1 that solved my problem, believe it or not :D

You gotta love Blackmagic Design :D
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Mac Jaeger

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostWed May 29, 2013 9:55 pm

Now that's interesting... i wonder what changed? Did they adjust fan speed management, or is the camera running cooler (thus needing less cooling)? If the latter was the case, this would mean improved stability and probably a longer time before failure...
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WAUU

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostTue Jun 18, 2013 11:07 pm

Back to hell. FAN NOISE returned, what is causing this?
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: BMCC FAN NOISE

PostTue Jun 18, 2013 11:32 pm

WAUU wrote:Back to hell. FAN NOISE returned, what is causing this?


Since it made a difference once before, what happens if you re-install BMCC firmware v. 1.3.1 again?

Let us know what happens, and also contact BMD tech support for your region and tell them whether re-installing the firmware "fixed" it or not (if not, you may need a replacement fan; they're user-installable).

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