audio on BMPCC4K

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Todd Groves

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostTue Dec 31, 2019 7:51 am

I'm enjoying my NTG5. I get such clean and warm audio out of it. And it has just enough warmth to really give the sound a rich feel to it.
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pnguyen720

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostFri Jan 10, 2020 5:57 pm

Robert Niessner wrote:Todd, try your NTG5 again while having the camera connected to its power supply or a 14.4V battery. It seems that with the internal 7.4V battery the camera does create static noise with some phantom powered XLR mics.


Hmm.. I'm running into this now so will try removing the internal battery. Hope it works and thanks for the tip!
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Todd Groves

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostFri Jan 10, 2020 6:02 pm

pnguyen720 wrote:
Robert Niessner wrote:Todd, try your NTG5 again while having the camera connected to its power supply or a 14.4V battery. It seems that with the internal 7.4V battery the camera does create static noise with some phantom powered XLR mics.


Hmm.. I'm running into this now so will try removing the internal battery. Hope it works and thanks for the tip!


I did not have to remove my internal battery on my BMPCC4K to get my NTG5 to work. The NTG5 requires phantom power, which the internal battery isn't strong enough for. But, attaching a v-mount battery to power my P4K - with internal battery still inside - allowed me to record directly into the camera. If there is a change for you, it will be mostly coincidental.

As a matter of fact, the v-mount battery charges the internal battery. When I first plug the v-mount battery into the P4K, the power light on the camera turns red. Which means its charging the battery. When the red light goes off, the internal battery is fully charged.
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pnguyen720

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostFri Jan 10, 2020 6:13 pm

Todd Groves wrote:
pnguyen720 wrote:
Robert Niessner wrote:Todd, try your NTG5 again while having the camera connected to its power supply or a 14.4V battery. It seems that with the internal 7.4V battery the camera does create static noise with some phantom powered XLR mics.


Hmm.. I'm running into this now so will try removing the internal battery. Hope it works and thanks for the tip!


I did not have to remove my internal battery on my BMPCC4K to get my NTG5 to work. The NTG5 requires phantom power, which the internal battery isn't strong enough for. But, attaching a v-mount battery to power my P4K - with internal battery still inside - allowed me to record directly into the camera. If there is a change for you, it will be mostly coincidental.

As a matter of fact, the v-mount battery charges the internal battery. When I first plug the v-mount battery into the P4K, the power light on the camera turns red. Which means its charging the battery. When the red light goes off, the internal battery is fully charged.


Ok, thanks for the confirm. I thought it was being inferred that the internal battery was causing the noise. I actually have the AC cord plugged in and the internal battery in the camera also so I figured that was causing the hum.
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karliboy

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostWed Jan 29, 2020 2:27 pm

Hello all

Been reading through these comments and found some really good info. However, not sure if any of them really answer my problem so i was wondering if any of you have any insights to help me from going out of my mind.

Kit being used:
BMPCC 4k
Zoom Recorder F6

The Problem:
I'm trying to send a Tone signal from my Zoom F6 recorder via the 3mm jack input. I can here the tone but am unable to manipulate it.

ALSO

The Tone isn't clean, but is audible as a 'Trill', rather than a clean straight Tone.

I was wondering if any of you here had any advice about where i could be going wrong. I've tried all the combos', ie: both Line and Mic, and all i seem to be getting is this distorted 'Trill'.

Any advice would be welcome. I'm a Camera Op/DP, so my knowledge of Audio at Recorder level is pretty limited. All i generally have to do is ask the Boom Op to send me Tone, I check it in camera, set my level, and that's it. But i've never heard this before.

Thanks in advance all.

Karl
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rick.lang

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostWed Jan 29, 2020 8:58 pm

Forgetting the trill for a moment, was the rest of your audio recorded in-camera fine?
Rick Lang
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Todd Groves

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostWed Jan 29, 2020 9:34 pm

rick.lang wrote:Forgetting the trill for a moment, was the rest of your audio recorded in-camera fine?


It just came down to providing adequate power to my NTG5 mic. With the V-mount battery powering my P4K, I have no problems recording internally. If I use the RODE Wireless GO, since it has its own power, it records fine with the P4K's own battery.
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rick.lang

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostWed Jan 29, 2020 9:43 pm

Thanks, Todd.
Rick Lang
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Todd Groves

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostWed Jan 29, 2020 9:58 pm

rick.lang wrote:Thanks, Todd.


You're welcome. Thanks to everyone for their help and feedback. I love the BM community.
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VicHarris

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostWed Jan 29, 2020 11:07 pm

I 2nd using a Fathead. I have both models and they work excellent .
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Robert Niessner

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostThu Jan 30, 2020 11:35 am

karliboy wrote:Hello all

Been reading through these comments and found some really good info. However, not sure if any of them really answer my problem so i was wondering if any of you have any insights to help me from going out of my mind.

Kit being used:
BMPCC 4k
Zoom Recorder F6

The Problem:
I'm trying to send a Tone signal from my Zoom F6 recorder via the 3mm jack input. I can here the tone but am unable to manipulate it.

ALSO

The Tone isn't clean, but is audible as a 'Trill', rather than a clean straight Tone.

I was wondering if any of you here had any advice about where i could be going wrong. I've tried all the combos', ie: both Line and Mic, and all i seem to be getting is this distorted 'Trill'.

Any advice would be welcome. I'm a Camera Op/DP, so my knowledge of Audio at Recorder level is pretty limited. All i generally have to do is ask the Boom Op to send me Tone, I check it in camera, set my level, and that's it. But i've never heard this before.

Thanks in advance all.

Karl


Karl, is it possible that you are using the wrong cable or connection? Because you wrote you are trying to send an audio signal from the F6 via 3.5mm input jack.
FYI - when setting the camera to line input, the input gain is fixed and can't be adjusted.

The F6 seems to have a lot of possibilities and settings so maybe you have to re-check those too?
Robert Niessner
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Thomas Chatelet

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostMon Mar 02, 2020 2:03 pm

Hi,
Some more specific feedbacks about the Fethead Phantom solution with an NTG5 here:
Without DC feed, only on LPE6 battery, the buzz goes away and, even better, the noise you could hear on DC feed goes away too... Yes, while on lpe6 battery only!
A gain level 50% is now enough to have good levels for interviews.
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KevinWild

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostMon Mar 02, 2020 2:51 pm

I 2nd this solution. I received my Fethead Phantom yesterday and now audio is great. I'm using the RodeNTG5 via XLR w the Fethead into the miniXLR on the camera that is being powered by 2 batteries in the grip battery handle.

Had terrible static before this solution, now it's working great.

Thanks!
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Todd Groves

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostMon Mar 02, 2020 3:03 pm

KevinWild wrote:I 2nd this solution. I received my Fethead Phantom yesterday and now audio is great. I'm using the RodeNTG5 via XLR w the Fethead into the miniXLR on the camera that is being powered by 2 batteries in the grip battery handle.

Had terrible static before this solution, now it's working great.

Thanks!


It's good to hear that the grip battery handle can provide enough phantom power for the NTG5 and power the camera. I was wondering whether or not to pick up the handle. Now, I think it's a good additional source of power to have. Thanks for letting us know.
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UlisesGuerrero

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostSun May 10, 2020 4:58 pm

Hi,

So, as of today, will the NTG5 work / clean sound with the 4K on AC power?

Or, is the only clean solution a VMount battery?
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Todd Groves

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostSun May 10, 2020 6:44 pm

UlisesGuerrero wrote:Hi,

So, as of today, will the NTG5 work / clean sound with the 4K on AC power?

Or, is the only clean solution a VMount battery?


I use my NTG5 with a V-mount battery since the internal battery isn't strong enough. But, I would think that the AC power should be sufficient. I haven't tried it, yet.
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UlisesGuerrero

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostSun May 10, 2020 7:36 pm

Todd Groves wrote:I use my NTG5 with a V-mount battery since the internal battery isn't strong enough. But, I would think that the AC power should be sufficient. I haven't tried it, yet.


Can you please try it real quick?
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Todd Groves

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostMon May 11, 2020 12:35 am

UlisesGuerrero wrote:
Todd Groves wrote:I use my NTG5 with a V-mount battery since the internal battery isn't strong enough. But, I would think that the AC power should be sufficient. I haven't tried it, yet.


Can you please try it real quick?


It does work with the included AC power cord. Be sure to:

1. Set both Audio inputs to XLR Mic on first page of AUDIO.
2. On 2nd page of Audio: Turn ON Phantom switch.
3. Back on 1st page, you will then see "XLR 48V Mic".
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Paul McMurrick

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostMon May 11, 2020 4:19 am

been following this thread for a while now, and I think there are still plenty of unanswered questions about this topic
Many people post on here indicating that the 3.5 input is sub par, too quiet, too much noise etc. I disagree. All a matter of horses for courses
Of course the XML lead is more secure, the mics tend to be more pro level etc, but I thought I would comment on the use of the 3.5 input, which I use regularly
If you are using a 3.5 mic in directly, with no external preamp, then yes, the result with in camera recording is pretty quiet and relies on the BMPCC 4k pre amp, which is really not too bad. I have used a Rode StereoVideoMic
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... s=pi&pim=Y
which is about ten years old, to catch ambient noise. If you turn up the BMPCC pre amp to 80 or greater, it works OK and the sound quality if satisfactory
If you use a mic with a pre amp, eg
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... s=pi&pim=Y
and you can turn it up using the 20 dB gain, then the sound recorded directly on the BMPCC is fine, although with that particular mic, the preamp in the mic leads to an audible whine, which I don’t like at all, but it is usable, just
The new Rode Videomic NTG however, is just fantastic when paired to the BMPCC 4k. Nice clean sound at great volume when plugged directly into the 3.5 input
For any of these mics, if you use an external preamp, the results are even better. In particular, the Rode wireless filmmaker kit with inbuilt 20dB gain works really well and means that you dont need to run a long lead with an unbalanced set up. The sound input using a 3.5 mic, into the Filmmaker ,then directly recorded onto the BMPCC via 3.5 is really very clean indeed and quite usable for final production
Some complaints about a ‘buzz’ using the 3.5 input are I am sure, RF interference while using an unbalanced system

My question however relates to running an unbalanced system via the XLR input. Kondor blue now produce a lead that will allow direct connection of a 3.5 mic system into the mini XLR input. I am interested in whether this will improve sound quality over running the system directly into the 3.5 input. People talk about how the preamps on the XLR input are better than on the 3.5 input but is this really true ? Are there two separate pre amp systems in this camera, one for XLR and one for 3.5 ? Does anyone have any objective evidence that input via XLR, matched with the same microphone and preamp, will be any better than via the 3.5 directly ?

Paul
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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostMon May 11, 2020 6:10 am

Hi Paul,

Re your comment about the Røde Videomic NTG, thought I’d mention that there’s a current thread about it with two YouTube reviews, one by Florent Piovesan, who started the thread, and one by Curtis Judd: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=113117

Judd’s review, done with a Blackmagic Pocket 4K and a Panasonic GH5, is quite detailed.
Video: Pocket 4K, Fujinon MK 18-55mm, Leica primes 35-135mm, Nikkor 55mm macro

Stills: Leica M3/M6/M240; Mamiya 7II; Arca Swiss 4x5/8x10

Sound: Schoeps omni & supercardiod mikes; DPA miniature omni mikes; Sound Devices 702T/MixPre-6 v.2
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Todd Groves

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostMon May 11, 2020 7:10 am

Yea, the Rode VideoMic NTG has gotten pretty good praise. I have the VideoMic Pro+, and its given me great audio.

Given that the VideoMic NTG has a means of attaching the Wireless GO to its base, I will likely pick it up as well. I think a wireless boom mic is a great choice to have. Plus, RODE mics have always delivered great audio quality from my experience.
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Michael Kropfberger

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostMon May 11, 2020 9:29 am

I just did some tests with my saramonic wireless lav system uwMic9 and the sanken Cos 11d
I have the volume to max (30) on the receiver for both lavs (transmitter has no volume setting)
I use the 3.5 stereo-in into the bmpcc4k and set it to "line" ... the signal is always below -20dB so too quiet.
But when I use the "3.5mm MIC" setting and boost it up, it easily has enough amplification to be clipping, so all is perfect for me...

greets
Mike
Intel i7-8700K 3.70Ghz @ 6 cores, 64GB RAM, 1TB M2 SSD (system), 2TB EVO860 SSD (media), 1TB EVO850 SSD (cache), RADEON VII 16GB, Win 10x64 latest
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Paul McMurrick

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostMon May 11, 2020 9:59 am

Thanks robedge

I am very happy with the video mic ntg
The point of my post was to refute the idea that using mics via 3.5 on the 4K was suboptimal. It is not. Just a matter of making sure you have some form of supplemental preamp preferably
And to ascertain if anyone has any objective information about a comparison of the preamps f-r 3.5 vs xlr
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robedge

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostMon May 11, 2020 5:53 pm

Paul McMurrick wrote:Thanks robedge

I am very happy with the video mic ntg
The point of my post was to refute the idea that using mics via 3.5 on the 4K was suboptimal. It is not. Just a matter of making sure you have some form of supplemental preamp preferably


One of the reasons that I mentioned Curtis Judd’s generally favourable review is that he specifically addresses the VideoMic NTG’s unbalanced output.
Video: Pocket 4K, Fujinon MK 18-55mm, Leica primes 35-135mm, Nikkor 55mm macro

Stills: Leica M3/M6/M240; Mamiya 7II; Arca Swiss 4x5/8x10

Sound: Schoeps omni & supercardiod mikes; DPA miniature omni mikes; Sound Devices 702T/MixPre-6 v.2
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pnguyen720

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostMon May 11, 2020 6:14 pm

Hey guys,

While we're talking audio, I thought I'd mention an issue I'm seeing consistently. My camera's audio PCB keeps blowing out and turns all staticky so I have to send it into BM for replacement. Just to be clear, once that PCB goes, it records the static on file. This will be the 3rd time this has happened.

The first time it happened, I was using the internal speakers and had volume set to 75%. The second time it happened, I had a LAV plugged into it with volume at 70%. This last time, I had a Rode VideoMic NTG with volume at 72% and NTG volume around 4-5.

I'm guessing that when I get it back, I'll have no choice but to run it at 40% volume and boost in post.

One difference I've seen is that on my shoots, I'm around really loud car engines, really loud plane engines and really loud firearms going off. I can only guess that since the camera doesn't have an audio limiter, this might have something to do with it.

Has anyone else run into this issue?
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Todd Groves

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostMon May 11, 2020 8:02 pm

No, I've never encountered any issues like that. But, if you're around extremely loud noises when you're recording, I would bet that would be the cause of your static. Not the camera. You're blowing out your audio.
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pnguyen720

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostMon May 11, 2020 8:27 pm

Todd Groves wrote:No, I've never encountered any issues like that. But, if you're around extremely loud noises when you're recording, I would bet that would be the cause of your static. Not the camera. You're blowing out your audio.


Hi Todd,
When I first had the problem, I was using the internal BM speakers.
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Todd Groves

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostMon May 11, 2020 8:29 pm

pnguyen720 wrote:
Todd Groves wrote:No, I've never encountered any issues like that. But, if you're around extremely loud noises when you're recording, I would bet that would be the cause of your static. Not the camera. You're blowing out your audio.


Hi Todd,
When I first had the problem, I was using the internal BM speakers.


Yea, but, if you're around loud sounds you're going to create static. Static is a sign of the speakers being pushed too far.
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robedge

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostMon May 11, 2020 8:29 pm

pnguyen720 wrote:When I first had the problem, I was using the internal BM speakers.


Were you playing back sound on the speakers or recording sound to the camera’s microphone? In the two other cases you mention, it sounds like you were recording sound, not playing it back.

Also, do you know what circuit board fried?
Video: Pocket 4K, Fujinon MK 18-55mm, Leica primes 35-135mm, Nikkor 55mm macro

Stills: Leica M3/M6/M240; Mamiya 7II; Arca Swiss 4x5/8x10

Sound: Schoeps omni & supercardiod mikes; DPA miniature omni mikes; Sound Devices 702T/MixPre-6 v.2
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pnguyen720

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostMon May 11, 2020 8:43 pm

robedge wrote:
pnguyen720 wrote:When I first had the problem, I was using the internal BM speakers.


Were you playing back sound on the speakers or recording sound to the camera’s microphone? In the two other cases you mention, it sounds like you were recording sound, not playing it back.

Also, do you know what circuit board fried?


Recording sound to the camera's internal microphones.

The note from BM RMA said the camera's Audio PCB.

Here's what you hear recorded to the BRAW after the PCB blows. Sometimes, it records no audio at all.

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pnguyen720

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostTue May 19, 2020 4:12 pm

Hey guys,

So, while my camera is at BM for repair once again, I was using a rental unit and guess what.. it ran into the exact same issue. It's very frustrating knowing that this will happen on every shoot so I may have to leave the BMPCC4K/BMPCC6K entirely.

However, the only silver lining is that I did notice that if I change the clip attributes in Resolve for each of the affected clips to only use Channel 1, I don't hear the static noise. So, it looks like the noise is only recorded to Channel 2.

I don't know if BM reads these posts but please look into this.
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Denny Smith

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostWed May 20, 2020 1:54 am

Do you have a mic connected to channel 2? I use an external mixer, and avoid the internal mic preamps.
Look at the MicPre3 or the older MixPreD, which I use.
Cheers
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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pnguyen720

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostWed May 20, 2020 4:05 am

Denny Smith wrote:Do you have a mic connected to channel 2? I use an external mixer, and avoid the internal mic preamps.
Look at the MicPre3 or the older MixPreD, which I use.
Cheers


Hi Denny,
I had a Rode Videomic NTG plugged into the 3.5mm port and mapped Channel 1 to 3.5mm Mic Left and and Channel 2 to 3.5mm Mic Right.
I heard the static later on that day once I had the internal camera mics Camera Left set to Channel 1 and Camera Right to Channel 2.
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Denny Smith

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostWed May 20, 2020 5:18 am

OK, you switched the audio inputs from the Rode Videomic on the 3.5mm input to the camera’s internal mics, which pick up all the Camera sounds, including the cooling fan, and are not good Mic’s in low level,sound applications, as the background hiss is louder than the subject. The internal mics work well for a loud sound source, like a music group, but not for a subject speaking 6-10 feet away.

How was the audio from the Rode Videomic NTG?
Cheers
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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pnguyen720

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostWed May 20, 2020 3:09 pm

Denny Smith wrote:OK, you switched the audio inputs from the Rode Videomic on the 3.5mm input to the camera’s internal mics, which pick up all the Camera sounds, including the cooling fan, and are not good Mic’s in low level,sound applications, as the background hiss is louder than the subject. The internal mics work well for a loud sound source, like a music group, but not for a subject speaking 6-10 feet away.

How was the audio from the Rode Videomic NTG?
Cheers


Right, but I don't think the problem is related to whether you use external or internal audio. The posted video above was outside with the Rode VideoMic NTG after the audio was blown.
Here's one indoors with the internal mics with both channels and separate channels.

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pnguyen720

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostSat May 23, 2020 3:30 am

So BM is sending me another unit to test and I'm going to test it only with the internal mics to rule out any issues introducing a 3.5mm mic into the equation.

While we're talking audio, is there a trick that you guys use on adjusting the audio levels using the touchscreen? I find that setting a precise level is really hard with my fat fingers. If I want 75%, I usually end up at 73 or 76 because I just can't move my finger that slowly.
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rick.lang

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Re: audio on BMPCC4K

PostSat May 23, 2020 4:55 am

Don’t know if it will help but instead of having the flat wide part of your fingertip on the screen, slowly drag the tip of your finger or the narrow edge of your finger rotated through 90 degrees.
Rick Lang
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