Using USB-C port for Run/Stop on BMPCC4K

I took a look at the Tilta Nucleus-Nano: Wireless Lens Control System.

https://tilta.com/shop/nucleus-nano-wir ... ol-system/

In their video (@ +/- 4:30) they mentioned connecting the focus motor to the camera to control Run/Stop function.

I inquired as to where one would connect this cable on the BMPCC4K.
This was Tilta's response:

"technical support (TILTA)

Nov 30, 12:15 PST

There will be a connection to the USB-C port and that will be able to do the r/s. If you already are using one, there will be splitters available for you to use multiple USB-C cables."

The dream lives on.
Long live the BMPCC.

This is great to hear because while it seems like a no-brainer that a data port should be able to be used this way, this is the closest I've heard to any sort of confirmation that we actually can do so. Fingers crossed.

has there been any further advance on this?

its a year since the original post, and I haven't found anything that will do this yet.

Would be interested in this as well. Or did Tilta abandon this idea?

The latest Ronin S firmware has this partially implemented but not officially supported yet (communication is very flaky currently). Hopefully it will be sorted out before DJI's next firmware release, assuming its not the camera firmware at fault.

has there been any further advance on this?

its a year since the original post, and I haven't found anything that will do this yet.

Before I go out and get another cable and change my setup, are you saying that the USB-C method of R/S does not work? I am using the USB-C for (obviously) ssd recording, so would be aiming for a splitter cable.

has there been any further advance on this?

its a year since the original post, and I haven't found anything that will do this yet.

I have contacted TILTA on Jan 30,2020.

Waiting for reply.

Will post response when I get it.

Here is the reply from Tilta.

Technical Support (TILTA)

Jan 30, 11:13 PST

Leon,

We have just released a BMPCC Nucleus Nano Run Stop Cable.

You can find it here: https://tilta.com/shop/nucleus-nano-run-stop-cables/

It uses the camera's USB-C port.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Best,

Tilta Inc.

Note from me: Make sure to select the correct cable for your camera.

Interesting - thanks for the update! Is this shipping anywhere in Europe yet?

Leon, you have impeccable timing!

Leon, you have impeccable timing!

The stars are aligned.

The thing I notice is that the cable still uses a TRRS plug.
Does this mean that any LANC switching device will trigger the USB C trigger?

I have contacted BMD support with this question, waiting for reply.

Do not try this at home.
You may blow your camera.

Interesting - thanks for the update! Is this shipping anywhere in Europe yet?

I see that ProAV have a TRRS to TRRS LANC cable for other cameras https://www.proav.co.uk/catalogsearch/r ... top+Cables.

No doubt they will stock the USB C to TRRS when available.

HAPPY BREXIT! (if applicable)

Few things to note about Tilta Run/Stop Cables:

1. They do not use LANC protocol. Its custom.
2. You must use their cables ( or only accessories that specify that they work with Tilta specifically. ) This is because the cable has a tiny microcontroller in it ( shown in the attached picture ) that is converting from their protocol to whatever end protocol the cable calls for. In the Pocket 4K/6K case its USB PTP.

Emailed a few Tilta dealers on the continent and they gave me a 2-months estimate, until this begins shipping, due to CNY and probably Corona as well. So will take some time until it gets here..

Very interesting to see if there will be any simple hardware record triggers to use via USB-C output with the firmware 6.8 "enhanced support". I assume this is what that would mean... Hopefully! Would love one that doesn't require extra power and is very small to place where needed.

Hi Csaba,

Where did you find this cable ? I can't seem to find it anywhere.
Also, would this work with any Lanc controler system ? Like the BMD shoulder rig ?

Cheers,
Jonathan

Tilta mentioned this cable on their Facebook page saying its available... Clearly its not but they didn't answer the obvious question on how you connect the ssd at the same time.
Wouldn't it have made more sense to make a cable with a splitter built in.

Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk

I received my run/stop cable from Tilta today, but no joy. It's not working with my BMPCC4K and Nucleus Nano with side focus handle. Has anyone had success with it? I sent an email to Tilta support.

Apparently my cable was bad. My new one should be here by the weekend. I'll let you know if it works.

Tilta mentioned this cable on their Facebook page saying its available... Clearly its not but they didn't answer the obvious question on how you connect the ssd at the same time.
Wouldn't it have made more sense to make a cable with a splitter built in.
Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk

The USBC is in host mode when recording to a SSD, and in slave mode when the camera is being controlled via USB-C, the camera con not be in both modes at the same time. Think of the USB-C bus as a one-way street, traffic can only go one direction at a time.
Cheers

Hey there,

Just got my Tilta Nano run stop cable from Cine Gear Pro in the UK.

Can report that it works perfectly, but I had to update to FW 6.92 first.

Hope this helps!

Hello,

I can confirm that the "Nucleus-Nano Run/Stop Cable-Item RD-WLC-T04-BMPC" I purchased directly from Tilta for $US29 on 5/20/2020 successfully and consistently starts and stops recording.

I am using the Blackmagic Camera 6.9 update posted on 04 Apr 2020.

-Jason

Hello,

I can confirm that the "Nucleus-Nano Run/Stop Cable-Item RD-WLC-T04-BMPC" I purchased directly from Tilta for $US29 on 5/20/2020 successfully and consistently starts and stops recording.

I am using the Blackmagic Camera 6.9 update posted on 04 Apr 2020.

-Jason

so do you need to use, as mentionned before, a USB-C splitter cable in order to get rec control AND USB-C Recording ?

I join the question whether it is possible to connect the cable and an external SSD with a normal splitter?
So far Tilta has no "announced" splitter yet.

However, they do offer this display modification that adds an Run/Stop cable connector. I guess this works via an integrated USB splitter: You can find it by searching for "BMPCC 4K/6K Display Modification Kit"
Unfortunately it is still not available for individual purchase.

Does anyone use a T5 and Nucleus Nano working with a BMPCC4K? Same Q as above, i want to have both rec/stop and write on the T5. Is it possible to run this via Bluetooth?

Hi people, so what - looks like Tilta threw the splitter idea out of the window?
I'm in China and checking more or less regularly at taobao, china's wannabe amazon, nothing like this. Actually I haven't seen the cable as such on sale in china, either.
Interesting.
For me, being able to record externally is much more important that being able to remotely control start/stop, but I feel somehow fooled as I paid for the damned function, and it is still not here and doesn't seem coming.

i have the cable, but never used it, because i can use
the start/stop function of the nucleus handle via my portkeys BM5 monitor.
and no, i do not sell the cable - backup

i have the cable, but never used it, because i can use
the start/stop function of the nucleus handle via my portkeys BM5 monitor.
and no, i do not sell the cable - backup

Uhm - Really? How does that Work? Can you elaborate how you connect your nucleus nano with the BM5 monitor?

Came across this

Tilta Run/Stop cable BMPCC4/6K - How to!

Nice find! I have the Tilta Side Focus handle and I too am looking for run/stop capabilities on my shoulder rig.
I don't want to mount my fiz to my rig to trigger record. Defeats the purpose of my side focus handle i bought lol. I have a Portkeys LH5P monitor and will be doing tests for remote record functionality.
Currently I just recieved my side focus handle and have it connected to the Nano via the micro usb cable to micro USB on the side focus handle and the focus works. Just have to figure out how to trigger the record button on the side focus or at least my port keys monitor to trigger record.
Any info anyone may have please share.

This has to be the most frustrating aspect of owning this camera and so surprising to me that in all the years I've owned and operated all of the BMPCC cameras (4K to 6K to 6K Pro) - that nobody has designed and released a handle that can control the camera functions over USB-C.

It's just so strange that when you have it on the Ronin RS2 - you can trigger run/stop and you can focus photo lenses (auto) perfectly using the RS2 handle - and yet nobody else has thought to do this in a separate handle that could, say, be used for a shoulder mount?

I guess it really leaves me with 2 thoughts. First - that nobody thinks this camera would ever be shoulder mounted, so why bother designing devices like that. For me, that's an odd one because every Pro camera should be designed for every possible use case in the field and for flexibility. The second is that BM has provided so little support to 3rd parties to help them implement support hardware like this or to support a stronger ecosystem around the cameras.

It's really starting to feel like the whole BM Camera development system is stalled pretty badly. The release of the BMCC6K doesn't help things either. I think it's a terrific camera in many ways - but it certainly doesn't' make me feel like BM is taking camera development seriously or listening to their users. Either that or there is some larger commercial issue going on behind the scenes that has deprioritised camera development.

Either way - I've been feeling like this is lowest point I've reached in my ownership of BM products and the first time I've genuinely started having thoughts about leaving the system behind. And that's saying a lot, as I have been a loyal BM ecosystem junkie/advocate for many years. It's really confusing and sad to me.

Is it possible there is a Ronin patent using USB-C for those functions that constrains what other manufacturers can implement?

I have noticed that Tilta have come out with a series of side handles that take NPF batteries.
These side handles have a Run/Stop function.

https://tilta.com/search-results?q=run/stop+for+BMPCC

I have contacted Tilta and waiting for response. I will post when reply is received.

My question to Tilta-

Do any of the Advanced Power Handles with Run/Stop (F570 Battery) control the Run/Stop for the BMPCC 4K/6K series of cameras?
If yes, can you direct me to the correct cable and if possible a video showing this.

I have added a 2nd question regarding the handles and focus control via USB type C.

This video shows the handle with a Sony product @ +/- 10:11

Is it possible there is a Ronin patent using USB-C for those functions that constrains what other manufacturers can implement?

I doubt it. Surely BM would have at least acknowledged that if it were the case.

The Pocket 4k USB PTP control is very good and responsive, and covers most of the functions. This is using LoupeDeck panel as control device, there is no computer involved, just simple MCU on the small box that can control also the gimbal.

https://youtube.com/shorts/Ajn23D0ZuIA? ... qBw07oGPKP

Wow - that is amazing Kim. Did you have to program the Loupe Deck at all? Or does it detect the functions automatically?

What is the happening in the connection path? I see the USB from the Loupe deck to a what looks like a hub, and then a couple of other devices that I don't recognise.

I think the power issue is relatively easy to solve if you put this tech into a handle that had a battery similar to the Tilta handles. I've been using this handle for the last 2 years: https://tilta.com/shop/tiltaing-side-fo ... ilta-gray/

I use it exclusively for power as I never liked the Nuclues Nano FF system.

I imagine something like this but with more controls for camera like what you demonstrated would be a game changer for the BMPCC community.

I just can't believe how easy it seams to be for someone to put a similar type of process into a beautiful handle that could be positioned anywhere around the camera and would open up the possibilities for this camera and improve the ergonomics/usability tremendously.

Can anyone share ideas why this has never happened in the 5+ years since the launch of the Pocket series with USB-C connection? I just can't imagine a scenario where someone who made a device like this would not make a huge profit.

Thanks for sharing that Kim - I gives me some small level of hope that this will change at some point.

Do the BMD zoom and focus demand(USB-C), designed for the Studio cameras work on the Pocket cameras? I saw somewhere that they can be daisy chained.
If yes then the technology exists and just needs to be rehoused.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... l/overview

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... l/overview

To my knowledge it is not possible to connect other devices together with Zoom and Focus demand.

You would need to give up external SSD recording?
Your devices look fantastic.
Could they be rehoused into handles?

This is what it states for the new Micro Studio Camera 4K G2

USB-C Expansion
Record to USB disks
or add focus and
zoom demands!

I remembered that when the Atem Minis came out one was able to control some of the BMPCC camera functions through HDMI and the Atem app.

from BMD website. https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/atemmini

"That means you can control the camera settings as well as the camera’s color corrector from ATEM Software Control. Imagine changing ISO and tint, plus lens iris, focus and zoom, so camera operators can focus on the shot! There are two types of control interface, CCU layout for traditional tint color control and a DaVinci color corrector interface allowing the camera’s built in DaVinci color corrector to add incredible digital film "looks" to your live production!"

Also I came across the Portkeys monitor that can control the BMPCC.

https://www.portkeys.com/blackmagic-des ... s-monitor/

So, the tech is out there, it just needs to be packaged more user friendly to application.

Also I came across the Portkeys monitor that can control the BMPCC.

https://www.portkeys.com/blackmagic-des ... s-monitor/

So, the tech is out there, it just needs to be packaged more user friendly to application.

That's exactly right. My confusion is why nobody has done it? It seems to me like such a huge market. Sony, Canon, Red, Arri all have amazing handles with great controls that can be repositioned for many uses and are ergonomically brilliant - why no BMD?

Seems like a major missing piece of the BMD puzzle.

I really hope BMD adds simpler physical control interface.

It should not be difficult to add a simple Serial UART port on the next gen cameras, with TRRS 2.5/3.5mm style plug. ( 3.3V, TX, RX, GND ) and would allow people to very easily connect just about any microcontroller to the camera without extra bits of hardware.

Last I checked, the integrated BLE Chip ( from Blugiga ) in the Pocket4K is wired to the main SOC with serial already?

Or better yet, maybe this is something that can be changed in firmware...rather than USB PTP, implement a simple USB Serial COM Port through the USB.

In either case, it should reuse the existing BMDCameraControl Protocol. That would not need to be changed.

I think BMD chose some hardware & software abstraction/layers that make it difficult
for non-developers to build control rigs / systems for their applications.

Response from TILTA.
At this stage is kind of like carrying coal to Newcastle but I thought I would post any way because I said I would.
Very helpful people at TILTA.


Ricardo Delgado (TILTA)

Oct 3, 2023, 14:24 PDT

Hello!

Thanks for reaching out.

So the cable you will want to purchase is the USB-C port version of this cable.
https://tilta.com/shop/usb-c-run-stop-cable/

You wil be able to use either the Advanced Side Power Handle, Advanced Side Focus Handle, or the Side PD handle, to get R/S function. Here is a video I shot in our showroom using said cable, and the Advanced Side Power Handle to operate R/S function on the 6k Pro.

If you have any more questions, please dont hesitate to ask.


Sincerely,


Ricardo



Tilta Inc.
https://www.tilta.com
1901 W Magnolia Blvd
Burbank, CA 91506

Attachment(s)
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FYI Ricardo is a 6K Pro shooter so he knows the pain.

When TILTA offered the screen mod. they mentioned having an USB-C "splitter"

https://www.redsharknews.com/production ... -available

"The mod does this by adding a new USB-C port inside the new installation, which is achieved by replacing the port side panel on the camera. There's a new bridge module so that there is still the ability to connect USB-C devices externally. Additionally the new mod adds an external control connector port so that a start/stop hand grip can be added. Tilta says that more camera control functions will be coming in firmware updates."

If this is possible that would add external recording to SSD and wired controls.

@+/- 2:30

Yes you probably could split the USB 3.0 and USB 2.0 lines and it should work just fine, having the SSD on the USB 3.0 lines and the PTP control on USB 2.0 lines.

The USB 3.0 and USB 2.0 parts are pretty much completely separate in the specs. The USB3 wasn't really an evolution of USB2. They added more wires and are running a completely different stack on those wires and the existing USB2 stuff was left mostly untouched for backward compat. From a host PoV the usb2 and usb3 part appear completely independent, so there should be no reason you can't "split" them in a cable.

The only complication I could possibly see is that for PTP control you need the USB port to act as the device and for the SSD you need the USB port to act as the host. But still worth trying ...

Hi Sylvain

Can you please repeat all this in English.

It would be simple to make, to work somehow with some BMD cameras, much harder to sell. I know, I have done that mistake too many times with BMD products.

Have you considered crowdfunding?