P4K loose lens mount

The spring trick is good to tighten up a mount, but Jimmy then stated the locking pin was not holding the lens, allowing for the lens to back off on the camera. I do not think adjusting the spring would solve this issue.
Cheers

I can’t see where Jimmy has stated the locking pin is not engaging and the lens is rotating off the camera although this is and separate issue I have come across on cameras and lenses as well.

Yes, that is a good fix, as it seems the two non locking lenses were out of tolerance more that than the camera. Thanks John for sharing, good information all round.
Cheers

Jimmy, then your Camera has a problem, it should not be that loose. Contact your regional BMD Support Office to arrange a RMA and return the camera for repair. My original Pocket camera has a very loose mount, and I sent it back to BMD to get it fixed.
Cheers

Ok thanks Denny, this reassures me that I won’t be wasting my time mailing the camera in to BM and that they will address the issue. My neighbor has agreed to mule my camera from Ecuador to Florida, where I can mail it to BM. We’re under mandatory stay at home orders here, so I can’t film anyways.
Thanks

Mike, kudos for your ingenuity fixing your problem. MY SLR Magic APO primes seem to fit well thankfully as I couldn’t do that fix. Did you let SLR Magic know about the problem and the fix?

In my case, EVERY lens I put on my P4K including native MTF Panasonic 12-35mm f2.8 Vario and also EF lens with the P4k metabones [/bspeedbooster disconnects frequently with slight movement of the camera... such as simple pans or walking, causing me to lose iris support and autofocus. It’s unusable in this state and it seems reasonable to me that BMD should be able to repair a lens mount loose to such a degree, instead of me having to jab a screwdriver into the camera or rig it with accessories in order to have a reliable camera—lens connection. I’m mailing the P4k in for service. I would like to hear from others who have sent their p4ks to BMD for repair and what were the outcomes, whether BMD made the repairs or not.
Best,
Jimmy

John, From this quote, since lens and Speed Booster disconnects, so the lens/SB is twisting more than normal to loose signal connections on the camera mount — sounds like the locking pin is not fully engaged...
Cheers

.. what's about the up/down wiggle if using a follow focus - also with smaller/shorter native mft lenses?
Is the mount too weak anyway?

Afternoon all,

Here's a little video I made of my P4K lens mount - the camera is acouple of months old and one of the lens' is new.

The camera is going back to BM Europe to be "repaired" I'll be interested to see what the difference is.

Paul

Afternoon all,

Here's a little video I made of my P4K lens mount - the camera is acouple of months old and one of the lens' is new.

The camera is going back to BM Europe to be "repaired" I'll be interested to see what the difference is.

Paul

Hi Paul .. please report what BM says and if they can repair it.
I notice the same issue with my P4K

I certainly will, apparently the process will be about 10 days from receipt of the camera.

Maybe the bayonet flange will be replaced - tensioning up the springs won't help in this case - its way too loose.

Paul

I certainly will, apparently the process will be about 10 days from receipt of the camera.

Maybe the bayonet flange will be replaced - tensioning up the springs won't help in this case - its way too loose.

Paul

.. well, somehow it looks like it is not the bayonet but the camera housing (plastic) that is to weak.

We have to see the response from BlackMagic - where did you send it ... to UK?

II’m mailing the P4k in for service. I would like to hear from others who have sent their p4ks to BMD for repair and what were the outcomes, whether BMD made the repairs or not.
Best,
Jimmy

I sent my P4k to BMD for that exact problem. They deny it.

They basically fake tests by using short lenses... I sent them the camera specifying problems with long lenses. They tested the camera with 2 short lenses.

I tried another pocket4k in a store, and a gh5, all lenses fitted fine on the panasonic while being loose on the blackmagic.

ON top of that, I find it insulting that a lot of people deny this problem.

Essentially the p4k is near worthless to me. Especially now that I have a dead white pixel... But the expensive EOS adapter with glass made just for it fix that well.

I certainly will, apparently the process will be about 10 days from receipt of the camera.

Maybe the bayonet flange will be replaced - tensioning up the springs won't help in this case - its way too loose.

Paul

Paul... any new on this yet?

Maybe some kind of "Shimrings" would help... do anybody know if there are some for mft?

https://www.mbfshop.de/en/1986/vocas-09 ... pl-adapter

Well, I got the camera back today through DHL - outer box torn open, packed with "poly worms" inner box containing camera packed on one side of the box affording zero protection on that side.

Very SHODDY.

reply from Black Magic UK:

Hi Paul,

Thank you for your patience whilst our technicians have assessed your camera.

During assessment, our technicians found the amount of movement in the lens mount on your camera comparable to our test cameras.

We would expect that the vast majority of lenses fit tightly on the lens mount of our camera, however some lenses which are heavier may need to use a lens support to ensure the safety and stability of the mount.

The camera's mount has been designed within strict tolerances in order to fit various different brands of MFT lenses and there can be very minor size differences between different makes of lenses, this is why the camera has a small amount of play with some lenses and not with others. This includes but is not limited to some plastic-mount lenses where the the mounts are inherently more flexible.

As such, we will be sending the camera back to you as soon as possible.

What a waste of time, as for "strict tolerances" really?? I think not buddy.

Very poor response and an assumption by BM that this is a "domestic" camera despite its abilities.

By the way the plastic bag in which the camera was stored inside the box looked new when I shipped it and came back torn and shredded - draw your own conclusions.

Paul

Well, I got the camera back today through DHL - outer box torn open, packed with "poly worms" inner box containing camera packed on one side of the box affording zero protection on that side.

Very SHODDY.

reply from Black Magic UK:

Hi Paul,

Thank you for your patience whilst our technicians have assessed your camera.

During assessment, our technicians found the amount of movement in the lens mount on your camera comparable to our test cameras.

We would expect that the vast majority of lenses fit tightly on the lens mount of our camera, however some lenses which are heavier may need to use a lens support to ensure the safety and stability of the mount.

The camera's mount has been designed within strict tolerances in order to fit various different brands of MFT lenses and there can be very minor size differences between different makes of lenses, this is why the camera has a small amount of play with some lenses and not with others. This includes but is not limited to some plastic-mount lenses where the the mounts are inherently more flexible.

As such, we will be sending the camera back to you as soon as possible.

What a waste of time, as for "strict tolerances" really?? I think not buddy.

Very poor response and an assumption by BM that this is a "domestic" camera despite its abilities.

By the way the plastic bag in which the camera was stored inside the box looked new when I shipped it and came back torn and shredded - draw your own conclusions.

Paul

... disappointing ....

"plastic-mounts".. I don't have any lens with a plastic-mount ... and a lens support don't help if the lens is moving upwards. Do the P6K has the same issue?

BM has to make some Shim Rings for free to compensate those "gaps".

Well, I got the camera back today through DHL - outer box torn open, packed with "poly worms" inner box containing camera packed on one side of the box affording zero protection on that side.

Very SHODDY.

reply from Black Magic UK:

Hi Paul,

Thank you for your patience whilst our technicians have assessed your camera.

During assessment, our technicians found the amount of movement in the lens mount on your camera comparable to our test cameras.

We would expect that the vast majority of lenses fit tightly on the lens mount of our camera, however some lenses which are heavier may need to use a lens support to ensure the safety and stability of the mount.

The camera's mount has been designed within strict tolerances in order to fit various different brands of MFT lenses and there can be very minor size differences between different makes of lenses, this is why the camera has a small amount of play with some lenses and not with others. This includes but is not limited to some plastic-mount lenses where the the mounts are inherently more flexible.

As such, we will be sending the camera back to you as soon as possible.

What a waste of time, as for "strict tolerances" really?? I think not buddy.

Very poor response and an assumption by BM that this is a "domestic" camera despite its abilities.

By the way the plastic bag in which the camera was stored inside the box looked new when I shipped it and came back torn and shredded - draw your own conclusions.

Paul

Strict tolerance does not mean a small tolerance. If it was made to a small tolerance then some lenses would likley be very tight and people would complain. There is an inherent weakness in the M43 mount as it's small diameter puts more leverage on the body structure than a larger one.

Well, I got the camera back today through DHL - outer box torn open, packed with "poly worms" inner box containing camera packed on one side of the box affording zero protection on that side.

Very SHODDY.

reply from Black Magic UK:

Hi Paul,

Thank you for your patience whilst our technicians have assessed your camera.

During assessment, our technicians found the amount of movement in the lens mount on your camera comparable to our test cameras.

We would expect that the vast majority of lenses fit tightly on the lens mount of our camera, however some lenses which are heavier may need to use a lens support to ensure the safety and stability of the mount.

The camera's mount has been designed within strict tolerances in order to fit various different brands of MFT lenses and there can be very minor size differences between different makes of lenses, this is why the camera has a small amount of play with some lenses and not with others. This includes but is not limited to some plastic-mount lenses where the the mounts are inherently more flexible.

As such, we will be sending the camera back to you as soon as possible.

What a waste of time, as for "strict tolerances" really?? I think not buddy.

Very poor response and an assumption by BM that this is a "domestic" camera despite its abilities.

By the way the plastic bag in which the camera was stored inside the box looked new when I shipped it and came back torn and shredded - draw your own conclusions.

Paul

... disappointing ....

"plastic-mounts".. I don't have any lens with a plastic-mount ... and a lens support don't help if the lens is moving upwards. Do the P6K has the same issue?

BM has to make some Shim Rings for free to compensate those "gaps".

The shims found on other mounts are to adjust the flange to focal plane distance and not adjust lens mount tension. This is done by the size of the bayonet flanges and the size and tension of the spring plate. My P4k came with a loose mount and I solved it in a few mins by reshaping the spring plate - problem solved and a nice tight lens mount with all my lenses. BTW the lens flange is metal but the body structure it's screwed to is plastic and I wouldn't use any reasonably heavy lens without a lens support.

Spring plate bend is not a real problem fix. It helps to keep lens in place slightly tighter, but it will not change lens mount itself and lens will keep wobble without proper solid support. Loose lens mount problem exists on both of my BMMCC as well, but it way less visible than in your example. My opinion is that M4/3 lens mount on BM cameras designed and machined in very strange way. Lens don't supported by external lens mount ring surface but supported by some internal part of the mount and always wobble a little.
Probably there also may be some variations from lens side and depending of that lens may extend more or less from main external camera lens mount ring.

I'm sorry but I really do not agree - finding reasons which make this loose lens mount acceptable is just not where it's at.

I've been shooting for 40 years and NEVER had a lens showing such a lousy fit.

It badly built, poorly engineered and frankly not good enough.

I'm not a "Fan Boy" trying to find excuses for the camera I've bought - Black Magic should, by now, have this kind of problem sewn up.

Lens' do not fit correctly on this camera - period - nothing else to say.

Paul.

Well, I got the camera back today through DHL - outer box torn open, packed with "poly worms" inner box containing camera packed on one side of the box affording zero protection on that side.

Very SHODDY.

reply from Black Magic UK:

Hi Paul,

Thank you for your patience whilst our technicians have assessed your camera.

During assessment, our technicians found the amount of movement in the lens mount on your camera comparable to our test cameras.

We would expect that the vast majority of lenses fit tightly on the lens mount of our camera, however some lenses which are heavier may need to use a lens support to ensure the safety and stability of the mount.

The camera's mount has been designed within strict tolerances in order to fit various different brands of MFT lenses and there can be very minor size differences between different makes of lenses, this is why the camera has a small amount of play with some lenses and not with others. This includes but is not limited to some plastic-mount lenses where the the mounts are inherently more flexible.

As such, we will be sending the camera back to you as soon as possible.

What a waste of time, as for "strict tolerances" really?? I think not buddy.

Very poor response and an assumption by BM that this is a "domestic" camera despite its abilities.

By the way the plastic bag in which the camera was stored inside the box looked new when I shipped it and came back torn and shredded - draw your own conclusions.

Paul

... disappointing ....

"plastic-mounts".. I don't have any lens with a plastic-mount ... and a lens support don't help if the lens is moving upwards. Do the P6K has the same issue?

BM has to make some Shim Rings for free to compensate those "gaps".

The shims found on other mounts are to adjust the flange to focal plane distance and not adjust lens mount tension. This is done by the size of the bayonet flanges and the size and tension of the spring plate. My P4k came with a loose mount and I solved it in a few mins by reshaping the spring plate - problem solved and a nice tight lens mount with all my lenses. BTW the lens flange is metal but the body structure it's screwed to is plastic and I wouldn't use any reasonably heavy lens without a lens support.

.. well, thought some kind of "Shim Rings" could fix that.. heard of ones just putting electric tape on the lens mount. But anyway... what do you mean with "reshaping the spring plate"? How can that be done... can you show how?

.. well, thought some kind of "Shim Rings" could fix that.. heard of ones just putting electric tape on the lens mount. But anyway... what do you mean with "reshaping the spring plate"? How can that be done... can you show how?

I would also be interested. This wobbling really drives me crazy. Shire you can use some sort of tape, but the glue makes the whole mount someone of sticky at some point. Just not professional.

The main question - was it mistake in dimensions, mistake in CNC manufacture, or was it specially by designed by BMD like this?
Sure it is possible to put tape or shim between lens and camera, i guess it is even possible to machine new lens mount replacement part with deeper internal part if there is enough space in camera body (i guess in batch it may cost 15-20 dollars or so)

The main question (one more time): What was original BMD idea of lens mount design?
Should lens supported by external surface of lens mount, same as all normal lens mounts do?
Or should lens supported by some internal lens mount point, don't touch to external surface of camera lens mount and so slightly wobble?

Between my buddy and I we own 4 panny MFT cameras and two BMD cameras. Plus about 12 MFT lenses or adapters. All the lenses fit tight in all of the Panny cameras..and some lenses fit sloppy or less tight on both of my BMD cameras.