Project Slate Metadata Expansion

I would love to see the Slate Metadata screen expanded. And, I'm sure others would like this as well. What's more is I'd love if you could export from Resolve Project Slate Metadata that can be imported into the camera just like the LUTs and Presets.

Production Metadata

Production Metadata.png (74.05 KiB) Viewed 5479 times

Production Crew Metadata

Production Crew Metadata.png (90.62 KiB) Viewed 5479 times

As you can see from the screenshots of the options in Resolve there is room to grow. Especially when you think about how a production company that owns a camera would probably like to have their Company Name in the Production Company field already filled out and attached to the files they are creating with the camera.

Now not every item needs to be in the camera, but at least the major ones should. Right now we only have Project Name, Director, Camera, and Camera Operator. Expanding it should include the above mentioned Production Company, Producers, Director of Photography, and Camera Assistant at the very least. At the same time I think for multiple unit productions adding a field for Unit Name would be useful. Like on Game of Thrones you have the Dragon Unit and the Wolf Unit.

There's a lot of potential that Blackmagic Design has barely tapped into with their Project Metadata in camera. One of the major reasons I first bought the 2.5K Blackmagic Cinema Camera was because of the Slate Metadata. With Firmware 4.0 I was extremely happy with the update that brought it to where it currently is. However, it hasn't updated or evolved. I think it should and would love to see it.

What do others think? Is there anything you would like to see expanded with regards to the Project Slate Metadata?

I would love this too, and I like the idea of having a default set up for our agency to put on our cameras.

I would also love it if there was a way to tap a button during recording or playback that would put a marker in the metadata of the clip, so when you ingest to Resolve, you can see the markers you have added. This can be really useful when you want to have a quick and easy way to find a key moment in post production (a great answer during an interview, an issue with audio etc), and is much quicker than trying to jot down timecodes etc. Atomos have something similar on their recorders, but the meta is only read in FCPX.

I'd like to know why Premiere Pro is not able to see ANY of the metadata of the ProRes files.

And I'd like to have the option of customizing the clip names by adding project name, scene # and take # from the metadata.

And I'd like to have the option of customizing the clip names by adding project name, scene # and take # from the metadata.

Well, you can do this in Resolve. So once you ingest all your footage into Resolve you can customize the Display Name of the clips to be based on certain metadata fields. Even what you just asked for is what you can currently already do with the slate metadata that does come over from the camera at the moment.

This is done on the Media Page of Resolve. Select all the clips you want to change the Display Name on and right click. Go to Clip Attributes, and then Name within there. Then type in the Clip Name entry field: "%{Production Name}_Scene-%{Scene}_Take-%{Take}" Now obviously after the enter the % symbol it will start showing options in a drop down, just type "Prod" and it will show the options. So it's %Production Name to auto populate the field with the Production Name.

You can also find this in the Resolve Training Videos released by Blackmagic Design at the 17-minute mark:

I'd like to know why Premiere Pro is not able to see ANY of the metadata of the ProRes files.

I'd like to add to this from my experience with Premiere. Premiere Pro has never been good with any kind of Slate Metadata from any camera. I remember back in 2013 being annoyed that Slate Metadata from the RED Epic didn't come over into Resolve. Then again from the RED Dragon in 2015. The Blackmagic Slate Metadata never came over either. That's part of the reason I switched to Resolve.

When I got the 2.5K in 2013 it was part of my hope that all that metadata that I was entering would go over into Premiere. It never did, so I stopped using the feature because it wasn't truly useful when working with Premiere. With editing in Resolve it's a whole new story, and thus I use the slate metadata whenever it's relevant.

So to answer your question about why Premiere Pro doesn't see "ANY" metadata... Switch to Resolve. See my above response about how you can use the metadata in Resolve to change the display file name. It's an amazing tool. Resolve is far superior to Premiere in this regard.

I would love this too, and I like the idea of having a default set up for our agency to put on our cameras.

I would also love it if there was a way to tap a button during recording or playback that would put a marker in the metadata of the clip, so when you ingest to Resolve, you can see the markers you have added. This can be really useful when you want to have a quick and easy way to find a key moment in post production (a great answer during an interview, an issue with audio etc), and is much quicker than trying to jot down timecodes etc. Atomos have something similar on their recorders, but the meta is only read in FCPX.

I'm curious did you ever try Adobe's iPad app "Live Logger" back when they had it? I tried it out and it wasn't very good. Actually I still have it on my iPad, but never use it.

This was meant to be do exactly what you said. It would run timecode and you would add a marker to the timecode based on preset you created. So in an Interview you could have a marker show up for when they state their name. A marker for a good quote. A marker for a new question.

And guess what? It was useless because Adobe never got to work right. I'm amazed it still shows up in the App Store, but the last update to it was 3-years ago. Maybe Blackmagic Design could do it right.

The thing is that the URSA Mini Pro and URSA Mini Pro G2 both could do it with an iPad app because the Bluetooth already allows you to control the camera. So, the idea would be that the timecode is generated by the camera and fed to the iPad via the Bluetooth connection. Then you could create markers that you export as XML to import into Resolve. So the only question is how Blackmagic Design could do this without infringing on Adobe's Live Logger copyrights and patents.

Either way, the idea of live logging markers has been tried before and failed. However it was Adobe who did it so no surprise there.

I would love this too, and I like the idea of having a default set up for our agency to put on our cameras.

I would also love it if there was a way to tap a button during recording or playback that would put a marker in the metadata of the clip, so when you ingest to Resolve, you can see the markers you have added. This can be really useful when you want to have a quick and easy way to find a key moment in post production (a great answer during an interview, an issue with audio etc), and is much quicker than trying to jot down timecodes etc. Atomos have something similar on their recorders, but the meta is only read in FCPX.

I'm curious did you ever try Adobe's iPad app "Live Logger" back when they had it? I tried it out and it wasn't very good. Actually I still have it on my iPad, but never use it.

This was meant to be do exactly what you said. It would run timecode and you would add a marker to the timecode based on preset you created. So in an Interview you could have a marker show up for when they state their name. A marker for a good quote. A marker for a new question.


And guess what? It was useless because Adobe never got to work right. I'm amazed it still shows up in the App Store, but the last update to it was 3-years ago. Maybe Blackmagic Design could do it right.

The thing is that the URSA Mini Pro and URSA Mini Pro G2 both could do it with an iPad app because the Bluetooth already allows you to control the camera. So, the idea would be that the timecode is generated by the camera and fed to the iPad via the Bluetooth connection. Then you could create markers that you export as XML to import into Resolve. So the only question is how Blackmagic Design could do this without
infringing on Adobe's Live Logger copyrights and patents.

Either way, the idea of live logging markers has been tried before and failed. However it was Adobe who did it so no surprise there.

Yep I tried that too! On paper looked perfect but in practice as you say Adobe made it a right old PITA to use.

Yep I tried that too! On paper looked perfect but in practice as you say Adobe made it a right old PITA to use.

I am using Adobe Premiere Pro since version 1.0 (and before that Premiere 5 to 6.5) and they have made really a lot of things PITA to use.

The integrated titler tool of PP carried all of its bugs from PP 1.0 up to PP CC2015. With PP CS5.5 they implemented speech recognition - it crashed all the time and never really worked. Got pulled with PP CC.
With PP CS6 they removed the ability of clip marker. Got reintroduced in CC 2014, but after you set a clip marker, it was impossible to delete the marker. Got fixed in CC 2015.
With CS3.0 there was a bug that when you had a lot of HDV clips in your project, it would take 20 minutes to open the project - then you would edit for 20-30 and then it crashed. Then load and wait again. Got fixed in CS4.0 - as a paid upgrade. The buggy miniDV/HDV capture tool.
Even now it is impossible to save a preset from track audio FX. In CC 2015 they removed multi CPU rendering from AE - which also made dynamic links in PP ultra slow.
The warp stabilizer with its inability to use more than one core and many, many bugs.
The pixelmotion frame interpolation worked very well when introduced in PP CS5.5 and CS6, but got borked in CC up to CC 2017. In CS6 they introduced the ability to export a video into a pdf, make video annotations in Acrobat, export them as annotation file and import them into the Premiere timeline. Crashed a lot with longer videos. Got completely ditched in the next version.

It's like they never cared about the bad experiences their users had. Premiere Pro often felt like the result of ADHD software programming.

I would also love it if there was a way to tap a button during recording or playback that would put a marker in the metadata of the clip

If you're looking for a real time live logging solution that works on tablets and mobile devices, take a look at Lumberjack System. It works with any camera as it logs using time of day and the metadata gets connected to the clips back in the NLE through XML. I've used it and it worked really well.
http://lumberjacksystem.com

I would also love it if there was a way to tap a button during recording or playback that would put a marker in the metadata of the clip

If you're looking for a real time live logging solution that works on tablets and mobile devices, take a look at Lumberjack System. It works with any camera as it logs using time of day and the metadata gets connected to the clips back in the NLE through XML. I've used it and it worked really well.
http://lumberjacksystem.com

Thanks, I’ll take a closer look although on opening the link it just mentions intergration with FCPX which make it a non starter for us

You'll likely never see real time range based keywording in any other NLE but FCPX because it is the only one that supports range based metadata for keywords. Subclips and marker ranges are not the same thing, they're just not flexible enough to use for that purpose. That's why the tool Adobe had for a bit years ago never really worked and then disappeared.

Anyway, it's easy to cut in FCPX and then FCPXML out to Resolve for finishing.

You'll likely never see real time range based keywording in any other NLE but FCPX because it is the only one that supports range based metadata for keywords. Subclips and marker ranges are not the same thing, they're just not flexible enough to use for that purpose. That's why the tool Adobe had for a bit years ago never really worked and then disappeared.

Anyway, it's easy to cut in FCPX and then FCPXML out to Resolve for finishing.

I’m not fussed with time range based keywording, just the ability to add a marker at a key point. Appreciate fcpx to Resolve workflows but we have to work in Premiere due to reliance on Team Projects for remote editors. Oh well, carry on with pen and paper!

Right now as it stands:

Project Name = Production Name
Director = Director
Camera = Camera ID
Camera Operator = Camera Operator

What I’d like added

Production Company
Producer(s)
DOP
Assistant Camera
Focus Puller
Stereographer (if 3D production)
Convergence Puller (if 3D production)
Series # (if shooting web or tv series)
Sound Mixer

Those all seem to be the major Project Metadata input fields needed.

And with that I would love if you could have a tab to turn on Stereo 3D on or off to label the camera as Left or Right. This way A Rig Right Camera can have the relevant information in the metadata.


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I want to bump this because I want to submit a proposal to Blackmagic's Camera Development Team. I'm going to put together the proposal this week. So if anyone wants to add upon what I've already put in here for expansion please speak up now. I will also be focusing on Slate Metadata as well.

Included in my proposal will be aspects regarding the Bluetooth app and wireless input of data. Overall, my hope is not just for the current G2 model, but future cameras as well.

I know VistaVision 8K is next for sensor tech, and I'm accepting that. But for me I want to improve tools that matter for the full production pipeline and Metadata is one of those things that matters. I want things to be easier. I want to cut down on time and work. So please, submit now what you'd like to see proposed for improvements for Project and Slate Metadata with regards to expanding it and improving the Bluetooth App's capabilities with regards to it.

Oh, and let me add that I still want the Video Assists to be including as Bluetooth capable assets for controlling the metadata settings of a Blackmagic Camera. I will be pushing this week that Bluetooth be added to the new Video Assists to make them future proof. Just wanted to add that...

Thought I'd share the ARRI Metadata screen using their Alexa LF Simulator. Why? Because they have fields for Production Company and Cinematographer, which are fields I'd like to see added to the Blackmagic Cameras.

Screen-Shot-2019-11-18-at-11.34.42-AM.png (422.93 KiB) Viewed 4494 times

*Apologies I forgot the "u" in Productions for that metadata simulator. Oh well.

And, here is the tables that I submitted in my proposal a few weeks back.

Scene Slate Metadata

Screen Shot 2019-11-18 at 11.44.54 AM.png (174.1 KiB) Viewed 4492 times

Project Slate Metadata

Screen Shot 2019-11-18 at 11.45.02 AM.png (240.59 KiB) Viewed 4492 times

It would be nice to have a MOS field as well.

It would be nice to have a MOS field as well.

Yes, you're right. It would be nice to have the ability to choose between "Sync" and "MOS" in the Slate Metadata.

As we approach three years since I brought this up...

I'd love to see the Slate Metadata updated via Firmware this year. I know it's low on the priority list. But, it would be great to see some updates to it as I do use this tool.

As we approach three years since I brought this up...

I'd love to see the Slate Metadata updated via Firmware this year. I know it's low on the priority list. But, it would be great to see some updates to it as I do use this tool.

+1 - Thumbs Up - Anything that would vote on this. Great idea!