Blackmagic Forum

Australian Image wrote:That's a bit like questioning the usefulness of the BMPCC4K, as it doesn't have an EVF, IBIS, swing out LCD etc etc.

It is perfectly ok to question the usefulness of the BMPCC4k. It is a great cinema camera (the image quality is great and the dual ISO is extremely functional) but the camera isn't perfect for every situation. As you noted a lack of swing out screen and autofocus makes it a difficult sell to vloggers. Doesn't make the camera bad just means it's not for vloggers.

Australian Image wrote:Best wait for independent reviews before casting judgement. It was a similar story with the BMPCC4K before it was able to be reviewed by actual users.

I touched it, examined it and noted its functions. I would have bought it if it had come out with the camera. Now I would have to dispose of everything I purchased that make the Pocket4K work for me so that $245 will just have to go to something else.

rick.lang wrote:Thanks, Denny. Would this Ikan NP-F750 L-Series compatible fit in the BMPBG (battery grip)? It is close to the capacity of the Sony NP-F970 which means a decent runtime.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/507556-REG

Refer to the attached image. A F750 type L-series battery is probably too big to fit in the new battery grip.

F550 & F570 batteries measure 2.8 x 1.5 x 0.8", or 7.0 x 3.8 x 2.0 cm.

F750 batteries are considerably larger (too "tall"): 2.8 x 1.5 x 1.5", or 7.0 x 3.8 x 3.8 cm.



(Frame grab from: https://www.newsshooter.com/2019/04/09/ ... -bmpcc-4k/ )

Edit: Corrected typo.

Australian Image wrote:... it wouldn't appear to be a big task to make the entire sled a battery...

That idea would make it more useful indeed. If they could include the ability to charge it through the camera when plugged in or the option to use the camera charger independent of the camera itself, even better.

Australian Image wrote: But there are those who have no extra gear and this may be perfect.

On that we agree.

Australian Image wrote: When another cage comes out to suit, changing over a cage is no big deal (unless you've paid for a Rolls Royce).

When it comes to my wallet *everything* is a Rolls Royce!

Thanks for that screen grab, Peter! If the specs of that Watson battery are comparable to a genuine Sony NP-F570, two of them will get you just over 32Wh. I’d hardly call that a two hour runtime in most shooting configurations. Perhaps it’s about 2 hours with a bare bones setup and a manual lens.

I’d think typically it will last 90 minutes or less with a couple of mics including phantom power and powered lens. Still very useful for what I do if I have two extra batteries to pop in at a break.

Its just so frustrating, all this tall of pocket grips and no new micro, where you could use one.

If only the pocket had been designed with a good swiveling grip as part of the side with some pro video control rocker switches etc. That would've been exciting. Making it with more depth a bigger battery, or two batteries could have been included. The multi placement swivel screen like I suggested too.

But we have what we have

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... i_ion.html

Kinda curious if we could maybe get 2.5 or 3 hours out of two of these.

So... we're in August now. kinda hoping we get an actual release date soon.

My pre-order was pushed back to the end of August. Ugh

After waiting for a long time, Vello has the battery grip for the P4K and P6K on pre-order with B&H. I've been pestering them to manufacture a battery grip for the Pockets. They finally did. I have always used their battery grips for my Panny GH5, Sony Alpha (older 6300 series), and my Canon 5D Mark 3. They're robust, well made, and so far never failed me. Their prices are so cheap too compared to the OEM ones. They're made of lesser quality material than the OEM but for what you pay, it's worth it. The grip is priced at $69.95 USD. I've got mine on pre-order.

B&H Link: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... l/overview

Link to Manual: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/lit_files/634692.pdf

Ellory Yu wrote:After waiting for a long time, Vello has the battery grip for the P4K and P6K on pre-order with B&H. I've been pestering them to manufacture a battery grip for the Pockets. They finally did. I have always used their battery grips for my Panny GH5, Sony Alpha (older 6300 series), and my Canon 5D Mark 3. They're robust, well made, and so far never failed me. Their prices are so cheap too compared to the OEM ones. They're made of lesser quality material than the OEM but for what you pay, it's worth it. The grip is priced at $69.95 USD. I've got mine on pre-order.

B&H Link: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... l/overview

Link to Manual: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/lit_files/634692.pdf

This may be attractive to people who are using LP-E6N batteries and who either don’t use a cage or have one that will work with the grip. With three batteries in the grip, it adds 465g/16.4oz to camera weight, but the upside is that you get about 2 hours of runtime without having to monitor and change out batteries one by one. It looks like the grip doesn’t tell you how much capacity is left, but maybe the camera will. Nice that there’s an AC power adapter and USB-C charging cable that make it possible to charge three batteries at once. With my Canon charger, I get to charge LP-E6 batteries one at a time.

It’s quite a bit more money, but personally I’m sold on V-Lok batteries of about 50Wh. The one that I purchased recently weighs 300g/10.6oz, fits in a shirt pocket and will run the camera for 3 hours. But at $70, the Vello grip is a lot cheaper for people who already have LP-E6N batteries.

robedge wrote:This may be attractive to people who are using LP-E6N batteries and who either don’t use a cage or have one that will work with the grip. With three batteries in the grip, it adds 465g/16.4oz to camera weight, but the upside is that you get about 2 hours of runtime without having to monitor and change out batteries one by one. It looks like the grip doesn’t tell you how much capacity is left, but maybe the camera will. Nice that there’s an AC power adapter and USB-C charging cable that make it possible to charge three batteries at once. With my Canon charger, I get to charge LP-E6 batteries one at a time.

It’s quite a bit more money, but personally I’m sold on V-Lok batteries of about 50Wh. The one that I purchased recently weighs 300g/10.6oz, fits in a shirt pocket and will run the camera for 3 hours. But at $70, the Vello grip is a lot cheaper for people who already have LP-E6N batteries.

That's right... attractive to folks with LP-E6 batteries. I got lots of LP-E6 batteries laying around in drawers and have been using the Core PowerEdge for the entire time as I just refuse to pay $245 for a BMD battery grip - not that there's anything wrong but the price. I also don't mind taking off my cage when I just take the camera on a walk-about, just to put the grip with the batts in it. It just look more normal that having a cage when out in public view too. And the $70 won't break the bank. . There might be people just like me who has both types of batteries and want a subtle setup when in public setting, or as you said already have LP-E6 batts.
Anyway, it will be available next month for those who wants it.

Ellory Yu wrote:I just refuse to pay $245 for a BMD battery grip - not that there's anything wrong but the price.

The price of the Blackmagic grip isn’t the only issue. It not only requires Sony L-type batteries rather than Canon batteries, but L-type batteries with very low capacity. I suspect that for a lot of people, purchasing L-type batteries for the BM grip means purchasing batteries that have no other use now or in the future.

Several post above I mentioned about the Vello battery grip for the pocket 4/6K. It's now available on B&H and I went ahead a purchased one. I have tried it out and like to share my experiences in case it is interesting to some of you. But first, let me explain my need for it.

Like many of you, my P6K is on a cage. The cage gives me the ability to protect and rig the camera, which I usually have it all rigged up with V-mount batts, etc. when I am using it on a production shoot. I do have 2 scenarios that I use the P6K: (1) On production shoot (as said) and (2) Walk-about or fun/personal shoot. I don't know about you folks but for just walk-about, I want a strip down and easy to grab and shoot, and not to bring any attention from the public (or worse in some parts of South Cali) approached by the permit patrol which happened to me a few times. So I want just the camera and lens if at all possible. However the battery issue needed to be addressed and I just don't want to hang an external battery with wires and franken-look if you know what I mean. I need a couple of hours worth of power at least too. So a battery grip that integrates seamlessly and have the look and feel of one single device is important to my #2 need.

The BMD grip was not interesting to me because it is so pricy and uses Sony L batts. I have a lot of LP-E6 laying around that I can use.

There has been a few knock-off battery grips on Ebay lately but they were poorly constructed and no warranty or manufacturer to back them up. So they were a passed.

I have Vello battery grips for my Canon and Panasonic still cams and they are well constructed and pretty much just as nice and good as the OEM that's 3 or 4 times the price. So I was comfortable buying their product.

Their Blackmagic P4/6K grip, as a first impression I thought that they just got one of the knock-offs sold on Ebay and repackaged it because the grip just looks exactly as the ones on ebay. I had my doubts. But since they are selling it via B&H and have a 1 year warranty on their product, I can order it from B&H and if I don't like it, I could return it within 30days. With that I bite the bullet.

So... yes the battery grip came looking like the one on e-bay. However, it is more polished, meaning well constructed, and its construction felt like a better QC'd product. It's still plastic but it is hard and solid feeling. It mounted seamlessly on the P6K (and should be the same for the P4K too). It took 3 LP-E6 batteries (also can use the LP-E6N). The batteries are not use all at the same time and cycles through using one at a time. The manufacturer said you'll get 3 hours but with my setting, using BRAW and my display brightness turned up all the way, I get about 2.10 hours with 3rd party batts I already owned (namely Watson 7.2v 2000mah brand) and bought from Amazon a long time ago. Not bad at all. So when I'm not on production and want to use the camera, I take it off the cage, put the batt grip and lens... and off I go. Very convenient and incognito.

Then there are things that I had to deal with it, a bit of inconvenience that I could live with and I thought I'd share.

1. The mounting hole is a bit off-centered. When putting it on a tripod, the camera is not dead-center to the tripod vertical axis. You either just have to get use to or get a cheese plate and mount it below so you can get a center hole. Again, for me, the least I add to rig it, the better for #2 so I just learn to live with it and not have a cheese plate.

2. I suggest draining all the batteries first then charge them fully. You can put all 3 batteries into the grip and use the included usb-c power charger to charge the batteries. Make sure all of the batteries are equally charged before using it.

3. Make certain the camera switch is powered off before sliding in the grip. Also check that the battery grip switch is off too. Then when the grip is mounted, always turn on the battery grip switch on, then the camera switch. This is just precautionary so it won't create issues with your camera. This are minor inconveniences because I have to think of it each time.

4. DO NOT CHARGE THE BATTERY GRIP using the USB-C charger while it is mounted to the camera. You should always remove the grip from the camera to charge it with the included usb-c charger. I spoke to a Vello tech and he said you can damage the camera doing so. Beats me but I'd rather take that advice than screw-up my cam.

5. The battery grip is very light it feels weird when mounted to the camera with the batts. But once you put in the batt, the added weight makes it feel right.

Overall, this is a good solution for me. For $70, with B&H 30 day return policy, one year Vello warranty, it was a no brainer for me. It's a good buy compared to the BMD grip (price and type of battery solution not having to have two kinds). I don't like recommending product but if you are looking for a batt grip, I suggest you give this a consideration, particularly if you already have the LP-E6 batts.

Sharing the photo of the Vello Battery Grip (mentioned above) and its packaging.

I've been doing some testing on batteries with the Vello battery grip. I'm not sure if brand dictates quality when it comes to 3rd party LP-E6 batts. I have the Watson and another set of Kastar batteries, both purchase from Amazon. Here are some findings. I drained the battery and fully charge them using the Vello battery grip charger. The camera was set to record BRAW 2.8K 24fps with the display at 50% brightness. The Vello battery grip takes 3 LP-E6 or LP-E6N batteries.

Watson LP-E6N, 7.2v 2000mAh - recorded 130 minutes runtime before camera shutdown.

Kastar LP-E6, 7.2v 2950mAh - recorded 136 minutes runtime before camera shutdown.

I wonder if the Canon and BlackMagic OEM LP-E6 will yield more time.

Ellory Yu wrote:I've been doing some testing on batteries with the Vello battery grip. I'm not sure if brand dictates quality when it comes to 3rd party LP-E6 batts. I have the Watson and another set of Kastar batteries, both purchase from Amazon. Here are some findings. I drained the battery and fully charge them using the Vello battery grip charger. The camera was set to record BRAW 2.8K 24fps with the display at 50% brightness. The Vello battery grip takes 3 LP-E6 or LP-E6N batteries.

Watson LP-E6N, 7.2v 2000mAh - recorded 130 minutes runtime before camera shutdown.

Kastar LP-E6, 7.2v 2950mAh - recorded 136 minutes runtime before camera shutdown.

I wonder if the Canon and BlackMagic OEM LP-E6 will yield more time.

I'm not sure what to make of this.

Canon LP-E6N = 1865mAh = 13.4Wh

Watson = 2000mAh = 14.4Wh

Kastar = 2950mAh = 21.2Wh

Blackmagic says that the Pocket 6K draws 16W at idle. Assuming that you wee testing at idle, the runtime estimates for three batteries are:

Canon: 151 minutes

Watson: 162 minutes

Kastar: 239 minutes

My basic concern about lithium ion batteries like the Kastar is that they jam significantly more power into the same physical size as the Canon.

The following screen capture shows my readings (idle on the left) for a 50Wh battery running a Pocket 4K. As you can see, I got 4 hours (240 minutes) before the camera shut down, but by the skin of my teeth. In real world terms, I got somewhat less, which you can judge for yourself from the numbers.

robedge wrote:
I'm not sure what to make of this.

Canon LP-E6N = 1865mAh = 13.4Wh

Watson = 2000mAh = 14.4Wh

Kastar = 2950mAh = 21.2Wh

Blackmagic says that the Pocket 6K draws 16W at idle. Assuming that you wee testing at idle, the runtime estimates for three batteries are:

Canon: 151 minutes

Watson: 162 minutes

Kastar: 239 minutes

I was not testing at idle. I had the camera contineously recording at BRAW 8.1 2.8K 24fps, writing to CFAST card, and with the display set at 50% brightness. This gives me an guesstimate of how long fully charge 3 x LP-E6 batts could give from that grip while in operation. I used a manual lens so as to just capture draw from the camera alone.

If your numbers are for just 1 battery at idle, that's may be so but I don't know since I wanted working numbers, not idle.

I don't suggest buying Kastar. I got a bunch of them long ago and a few were not charging at all. I was able to exchange them but after a bad customer service experience. Never had I bought them again. Since I still have a few left from before, I just used them. Watson seem to be a good brand if you're looking just for the cost savings.

Ellory Yu wrote:
I was not testing at idle. I had the camera contineously recording at BRAW 8.1 2.8K 24fps, writing to CFAST card, and with the display set at 50% brightness. This gives me an guesstimate of how long fully charge 3 x LP-E6 batts could give from that grip while in operation. I used a manual lens so as to just capture draw from the camera alone.

If your numbers are for just 1 battery at idle, that's may be so but I don't know since I wanted working numbers, not idle.

I don't suggest buying Kastar. I got a bunch of them long ago and a few were not charging at all. I was able to exchange them but after a bad customer service experience. Never had I bought them again. Since I still have a few left from before, I just used them. Watson seem to be a good brand if you're looking just for the cost savings.

So I also tested active filming with a 50Wh battery running a Pocket 4K. If you just consider your Watson battery, three of them equal 43.2Wh. The screen capture that I posted above (right hand column) gives some comparative numbers. When I compare the two, my conclusion is that the Watson batteries do fine in real world terms. With the Vello grip, it also seems to be a cheaper solution.

robedge wrote:So I also tested active filming with a 50Wh battery running a Pocket 4K. If you just consider your Watson battery, three of them equal 43.2Wh. The screen capture that I posted above (right hand column) gives some comparative numbers. When I compare the two, my conclusion is that the Watson batteries do fine in real world terms. With the Vello grip, it also seems to be a cheaper solution.

That's about right. I use my CoreSX Edge and larger V-mounts on production projects so that cost is justifiable for such. For walk-arounds and personal use, the Vello grip with existing LP-E6's is easier to carry around public places and a cheaper solution with my P6K. I'm just sharing info in case others might want a grip over a rigged battery system.

[Accidental double post]

Ellory Yu wrote:Watson seem to be a good brand if you're looking just for the cost savings.

B&H has some house brands for gear that is manufactured or rebranded for it, Watson being one of them. The grip hardware that B&H sells under the name Impact are also B&H’s own products.

robedge wrote:

Ellory Yu wrote:Watson seem to be a good brand if you're looking just for the cost savings.

B&H has some house brands for gear that is manufactured or rebranded for it, Watson being one of them. The grip hardware that B&H sells under the name Impact are also B&H’s own products.

Good to know. Thanks Rob.

Just a quick update on the Vello battery grip for the Pocket 4K/6K. I have had mine for over a month now and am very happy with the performance of it. It's super convenient especially when going on a walk-about, the batteries last a little over 2 hours, when not in use, the batteries stay charge for 2 weeks or more (based on my observations), and very comfortable to hold. It also feels just like it is an extended part of the camera.

As I was getting set to travel with my gear, I wanted it to be compact and keep it down to the minimum. I have found the Vello battery grip keeps my Pocket 6K unrigged and easy to carry during travels and pretty much give me a good 2 hours and 5-10 minutes more each time without lugging a brick battery and external plates. It makes it easy to pack. So I have decided to buy another one for $70 which is much cheaper than the BMD grip or any V-Mount (including the Core Edge) batteries out there. With that I now have 2 of these which allows me to have 2 fully charged grips and all I do is swap them out. Because the grip lets you charge the batteries, I can pre-charge both grips in the evening and ready for the next day, giving me about 4 hours of shoot during my walk-about. I take care of my gear so I have not encounter any problems with the Vello grip for the Pocket 4K and 6K.