Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

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Will Vazquez

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Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostFri May 03, 2019 7:41 pm

I received my UMP G2 a couple of weeks ago and I love it, but I have some issues with it that I hope will be solved with firmware updates.

When monitoring audio through a headphone jack, you hear like crackling and popping sounds. This happens also when you playback the footage in camera. The crackling sound is heard both in the headphones and through the SDI out to a monitor. When you play the camera file in DaVinci however, it sounds clean.

Occasionally, when playing back a clip in camera, the scrub bar disappears. Turning off the camera and turning it back on, seems to fix the bug.

One more thing that I have noticed happens with the G2. There have been a couple instances where I have turned off the power switch on the camera, and it stayed powered on. I have to remove the battery to make it turn off. This is an intermittent problem and doesn't happen always though, but it's annoying when it does.

I reported this to tech support, and I'm still waiting for them to tell me how to solve these issues.
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studio6pro

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostSat May 04, 2019 8:41 pm

Those are not small bugs. I hope those are easy software based fixes and not a hardware issue.


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Will Vazquez

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostMon May 06, 2019 2:41 pm

Just to give an update. I've heard back from BMD tech support on Friday, and they said they are looking into my issues. I hope they can fix it, mainly, the audio monitoring problem. Now the sounds are more pronounced and have weird electronic sounds like R2D2 took over my camera.

I'm scared to use the camera on a job, and do playback for a client, and then having to explain to them, that the weird sounds they are hearing are not on the actual file. Sucks.
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Will Vazquez

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostMon May 06, 2019 11:09 pm

After further testing, the crackling audio at playback problem only occurs if I film at 23.98. If I shoot at 24fps and playback in camera, the audio is fine.
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Tim Schumann

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostThu May 09, 2019 12:21 am

This is a known issue for audio playback in camera on the G2 in 23.98, 29.97 and 59.94fps.
We have an update that fixes these bugs which will be out very soon.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostThu May 09, 2019 5:03 am

Good to know, thanks for the update Tim.
Cheers
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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Will Vazquez

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostFri May 10, 2019 1:20 pm

Tim Schumann wrote:This is a known issue for audio playback in camera on the G2 in 23.98, 29.97 and 59.94fps.
We have an update that fixes these bugs which will be out very soon.


Thanks. I got an email from Tech Support mentioning this. Someone please light a fire under the engineers' butts so they hurry up with the new firmware update. C'mon guys, I want to playback my 23.98 audio for my clients and it sound clean.
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Colourberry

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostFri May 10, 2019 1:46 pm

Any chance you could test aliasing for us at 300fps?
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Will Vazquez

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostFri May 10, 2019 3:11 pm

Colourberry wrote:Any chance you could test aliasing for us at 300fps?


I didn't notice any aliasing, but the footage is soft and a little noisy. You can find some 300fps here in this test I shot previously at about the 1 minute mark. I applied a little noise reduction in Resolve only to the 300 fps footage. The 300 fps is not great, but usable in a pinch. If you're thinking about shooting 300 fps for high end food shots, then I don't think it's that great. However, the 150 fps at 4k is super clean and beautiful. Like mentioned before by myself and others, the best thing about the new G2 is the motion cadence. The look is much more Alexa-like.

NOTE: I have a Rawlite OLPF installed in my G2, so it may attenuate the aliasing in 300 fps. The OLPF is needed, as they still haven't eliminated the issue of moire in high frequency patterns.

Here's the footage.

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rick.lang

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostSat May 11, 2019 3:42 pm

Great illustration of the value of slow motion as the running dogs show much more complex movement than a person jogging. Cool.


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Colourberry

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostSun May 12, 2019 12:07 am

Will Vazquez wrote:
Colourberry wrote:Any chance you could test aliasing for us at 300fps?


I didn't notice any aliasing, but the footage is soft and a little noisy. You can find some 300fps here in this test I shot previously at about the 1 minute mark. I applied a little noise reduction in Resolve only to the 300 fps footage. The 300 fps is not great, but usable in a pinch. If you're thinking about shooting 300 fps for high end food shots, then I don't think it's that great. However, the 150 fps at 4k is super clean and beautiful. Like mentioned before by myself and others, the best thing about the new G2 is the motion cadence. The look is much more Alexa-like.

NOTE: I have a Rawlite OLPF installed in my G2, so it may attenuate the aliasing in 300 fps. The OLPF is needed, as they still haven't eliminated the issue of moire in high frequency patterns.


Thanks for sharing that.

Is it possible your focus was off for the 300fps shot because that was really soft. So soft it looks out of focus where as the other footage we've seen from Garth De Bruno Austin of the kite surfer was a lot sharper. Or could your OLPF be the cause?
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Will Vazquez

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostTue May 14, 2019 11:45 am

Hey Blackmagic Engineers! When are we getting the firmware update to cure my crackling audio issues?

Also, I'm still getting the random issue where the camera won't power down unless you remove battery. Doesn't happen always, but it happens.

Let's go!! Make the firmware happen this week!! Thanks.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostTue May 14, 2019 12:29 pm

Will Vazquez wrote:Hey Blackmagic Engineers! When are we getting the firmware update to cure my crackling audio issues?

Also, I'm still getting the random issue where the camera won't power down unless you remove battery. Doesn't happen always, but it happens.

Let's go!! Make the firmware happen this week!! Thanks.

I hope soon for you.. So they can focus there attention towards the Ursa Broadcast after that..
We are still waiting for a FW fix for since FW 5.0.1 released on 22 March 2018 5.1.1 which was released on May 31st .... :roll: :roll:
Since then there have not been any FW update / fix been done to the Ursa Broadcast... :(
Last edited by Xtreemtec on Tue May 21, 2019 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 1M/E 4K, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Hyperdeck Studio Mini, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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Stephen Fitzgerald

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostTue May 14, 2019 3:22 pm

Saw this vid this morning,I’ve watched this dudes videos for a while seems like he had some issues with a G2 he rented, so take that for what it’s worth. He has a lot of experience testing the Ursa Mini line in previous videos as well. That said, he points out the camera is most likely faulty and not an indication of overall performance hopefully.

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Will Vazquez

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostTue May 14, 2019 6:13 pm

It gets even worse. I hadn't done a low light test, and I now I realized I have FPN on my G2 even at 800 iso. C'mon man, I thought FPN was a thing of the past. Even after sensor calibration procedure, I still have FPN. So sad. Just when I was falling in love.
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Stephen Fitzgerald

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostTue May 14, 2019 6:57 pm

Will Vazquez wrote:It gets even worse. I hadn't done a low light test, and I now I realized I have FPN on my G2 even at 800 iso. C'mon man, I thought FPN was a thing of the past. Even after sensor calibration procedure, I still have FPN. So sad. Just when I was falling in love.


Will, I know this may be asking a lot, but I think it would be best to post some clips or stills here of the FPN you’re seeing. BMD I don’t think has admitted to the issue, though the entire community is aware of it...so as it’s on their very new Camera I’d like to hear their honest response. (Seems the sensor is exactly the same as the G1 from clips I’ve seen.)
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AbdoulUK

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostTue May 14, 2019 9:13 pm

Im so close to cancelling my order and waiting until the end of the year for the bug clearance.
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Blaž Murn

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostWed May 15, 2019 8:48 am

AbdoulUK wrote:Im so close to cancelling my order and waiting until the end of the year for the bug clearance.


+1
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Stephen Fitzgerald

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostWed May 15, 2019 10:29 am

I know this may sound bad, but I’ve used BMD products for a while and I always wait a year aftera product releases before I invest in one, usually the price has dropped and bug fixes have been reported. Yes you’re getting an older camera at that point, but honestly cameras built like the UMP seem to last a long time from my experience. I always ask for more communication between them and the customer, maybe one day
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Blaž Murn

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostWed May 15, 2019 10:36 am

Stephen Fitzgerald wrote:I know this may sound bad, but I’ve used BMD products for a while and I always wait a year aftera product releases before I invest in one, usually the price has dropped and bug fixes have been reported. Yes you’re getting an older camera at that point, but honestly cameras built like the UMP seem to last a long time from my experience. I always ask for more communication between them and the customer, maybe one day


Agreed.

But this time i was a total fool. I believed that it is an minor but important upgrade of an existing camera that works well and is built to last. Canceled my order of G1+Free EVF for G2 because of readout and future support regarding FPGA or whatever Lego like internals for future software re-building and of course dead pixel remapping.

And the whole package is not that low priced at all compared to competition; also no side handle included. If it says "PRO" in the name it should have some QC? Does anybody have any info is there any QC or is the guy on BMCUser forum calling BMD worse than Fiat actually right? I hardly believe so...

I really hope they manage to make them work in time they hit Europe.
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cjwolff

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostThu May 16, 2019 1:21 am

I'll know more soon but just sent in my G2 for the image tearing/frame drop/stops recording issue. Fortunately BMD support is super responsive on this.

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AbdoulUK

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostThu May 16, 2019 6:43 am

So what I can conclude so far is, the G2 is hit and miss whether you will receive a working model, and the main problems so far are:

Frame tearing
Powering off between mode cycles
power switch becoming inactive forcing battery removal
Audio Glitches on playback when shooting in 29.97
FPN (not sure on this one, as it's often dependent on shooting environments)


I love BM, but can't help but feel like they release beta tests or don't have a proper QC process. If not addressed by the time they start shipping to EU, I'll have to accept it for what it is and cancel my order and see what else I can afford on the market.
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rick.lang

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostFri May 17, 2019 6:35 pm

Abdoul, understand the caution, but you might be overly concerned as there’s no guarantee your camera would have these problems. If there is a fatal flaw in every camera, I don’t think BMD would be shipping them. And likely you would ask for a flaw to be repaired/replaced or the camera would be returned.

My URSA Mini 4.6K PL, that I received in early April 2016, was purchased without the benefit of anyone having experience with the production model. Overall it was fine except for the magenta corners. Some of the beta testers noticed it, but I’m sure everyone thought it wouldn’t affect production camers. I suspect hundreds of cameras were replaced one or more times to find a camera that didn’t have magenta corners or bands or blobs. Mine was still usable but not perfect. About a year or so later, after about half a year of the magenta becoming less noticeable, the magenta problem literally evaporated. BMD may comment although they’ve never made an official statement before, but I’ve said previously the cause could only have been a sensor cleaning agent that was applied too liberally or was faulty in how it was removed or dried. I’d still buy another camera... well I would if one was available.


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Will Vazquez

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostMon May 20, 2019 2:41 pm

The fact that it's taking so long for Blackmagic to release a firmware update to fix the faulty playback audio, perhaps may be a sign that the problem is harder for them to fix than they say. Of they are just dragging their feet.

How hard can it be? I'm sure the software design is object-oriented, and they only need to fix the bug in the audio playback component. I doubt they have to rewrite the firmware form scratch.

I do a lot of talking head stuff and I have yet to use my new G2 on a paying gig. Giving excuses for faulty playback audio on set would be embarrassing and unprofessional.

This camera is new, and needs basic operational updates to make it viable for production use. Let's go!
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AbdoulUK

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostMon May 20, 2019 3:36 pm

rick.lang wrote:Abdoul, understand the caution, but you might be overly concerned as there’s no guarantee your camera would have these problems. If there is a fatal flaw in every camera, I don’t think BMD would be shipping them. And likely you would ask for a flaw to be repaired/replaced or the camera would be returned.

My URSA Mini 4.6K PL, that I received in early April 2016, was purchased without the benefit of anyone having experience with the production model. Overall it was fine except for the magenta corners. Some of the beta testers noticed it, but I’m sure everyone thought it wouldn’t affect production camers. I suspect hundreds of cameras were replaced one or more times to find a camera that didn’t have magenta corners or bands or blobs. Mine was still usable but not perfect. About a year or so later, after about half a year of the magenta becoming less noticeable, the magenta problem literally evaporated. BMD may comment although they’ve never made an official statement before, but I’ve said previously the cause could only have been a sensor cleaning agent that was applied too liberally or was faulty in how it was removed or dried. I’d still buy another camera... well I would if one was available.


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Thanks Rick,
I agree there's no guarantee my camera would be faulty, but I'm a man of logic and evidence. I don't think that all cameras are fatally flawed, I just think that they either have a terrible QC process or the parts are so cheap (to make it affordable) that it's inevitable that some cameras are going to suffer the same fate as most electronic devices with cheaply made internal components...luck of the draw which ones will perform as expected. All logic and evidence so far points towards the likely hood of the camera having some issue if received anytime soon. I'm desperate to be proved wrong but it seems 99% of footage online or owners on forums have reported bugs. I know that you only usually hear people reporting the bad and not coming to places like these when theres good, however even videos online back up my findings, the majority of them, when questioning the camera owners all report bugs, except for the early guys who had the benefit of BM sending them cameras out early, which were obviously under a lot more control and care as opposed to the now general batch orders.

I know the camera will eventually be amazing, but right now, BM doesn't fill me with much hope, but I'm still here because bang-for-buck their image quality wins. I just have to pay the price of likely RMA's, no communication on availability and high stress levels haha.

on a positive note, I heard rumours of a firmware update this week to address some issues.
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rick.lang

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostMon May 20, 2019 4:53 pm

It’s a shame it isn’t a standard practice for the camera industry to post sales volumes at least quarterly. Does getting a camera in three weeks mean Canon/Sony/Panasonic had 10,000 ready to ship on the date announced and they had enough cameras ready to satisfy demand for the quarter. Or does a one year wait mean BMD had 100 cameras ready when announced but anticipated only 10,000 would be needed in the first quarter while actual demand was 100,000? We may never know. The traditional players also know the shape of their demand curve and can manage inventory. BMD is still learning I suspect.


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AbdoulUK

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostMon May 20, 2019 7:14 pm

Very good point!
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Blaž Murn

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostMon May 20, 2019 9:34 pm

B&H has a user review and photos with even more issues regarding noise turn offs and turn ons lol. They have listed availability of July. On EU pages it is still June, but who knows. :shock:
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Carlos Garcia-Diaz

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Q

PostMon May 20, 2019 11:54 pm

AbdoulUK wrote:So what I can conclude so far is, the G2 is hit and miss whether you will receive a working model.


This is has been standard operating procedure for all new Blackmagic cameras. 1. "Release" camera. 2. Don't produce them in quantities that can actually meed demand or worse 3. Glitches/defects/QC issues up the wazoo for about the first year or two. Some cameras are alright, others not. This is the BM lottery. This is why, as much as I'd like to, I would not buy one their cameras. There are more reliable alternatives out there.
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Stephen Fitzgerald

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostTue May 21, 2019 1:21 am

It’s tough since alternatives camera cost much much more, but that being said I just wait the year after the camera is released to invest. I thought of going G2, but I literally just bought the G1. I think that’s because I know the price drop was significant and the nature of BMD. I’d say the P4K is their best camera so far in terms of quality and issues. They failed to produce enough, but overall the best.
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Chris Shivers

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostTue May 21, 2019 8:04 am

i think yall blowing this out of proportion i only heard one person talk about battery issues
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Peter917

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostTue May 21, 2019 10:39 am

So i received my camera yesterday. Will do tests this week but have one question. When I have the lens cap on and change ISO to 3200 I see really bad horizantal lines. I let it sit for 10 min then did a sensor calibration with the body cap on and still when the body cap is on at 3200 I see them. Is this normal for the ursas or is my unit defective?
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rick.lang

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostTue May 21, 2019 10:49 pm

Peter, after the second calibration, how is it shooting normal video well-exposed with shadows and highlights?


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Peter917

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostWed May 22, 2019 12:57 pm

rick.lang wrote:Peter, after the second calibration, how is it shooting normal video well-exposed with shadows and highlights?


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I have not had time to check. With the body cap though I do not see lines at 1600 or 800 just 3200. I hope this is normal and not a bad unit.
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rick.lang

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostWed May 22, 2019 5:43 pm

Thanks, Peter. Hopefully someone shooting with the Mini G2 will comment.


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Tim Schumann

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostMon May 27, 2019 7:26 am

Will Vazquez wrote:The fact that it's taking so long for Blackmagic to release a firmware update to fix the faulty playback audio, perhaps may be a sign that the problem is harder for them to fix than they say. Of they are just dragging their feet.

How hard can it be? I'm sure the software design is object-oriented, and they only need to fix the bug in the audio playback component. I doubt they have to rewrite the firmware form scratch.


Camera 6.4 Update is live on our support site now. Fixing the audio bug was not difficult but getting a release full through QA and ready for release takes time as it was not the only change in the release. This update is well worth updating to for all G2 owners.
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guy.pinto

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostThu Jun 06, 2019 6:39 am

My Ursa Mini Pro G2 still with "Frame tearing" problem after firmware upgrade to V6.4.
Needless to say camera is unusable.
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AbdoulUK

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostThu Jun 06, 2019 10:57 am

I thought the first thing you would of done is send it back?
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guy.pinto

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostThu Jun 06, 2019 8:02 pm

AbdoulUK wrote:I thought the first thing you would of done is send it back?


Sending it back is an expensive option. I will lose about $1000 (round international shipment and taxes), when I convinced it can be fixed by a firmware upgrade.

As its a common problem, I hope Blackmagic will fix it quickly in there next firmware.
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AbdoulUK

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostThu Jun 06, 2019 8:24 pm

That sounds tricky. Never imagined it would of cost so much. I always assumed the store you bought it from would handle sending it to BM
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guy.pinto

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostThu Jun 06, 2019 8:52 pm

AbdoulUK wrote:That sounds tricky. Never imagined it would of cost so much. I always assumed the store you bought it from would handle sending it to BM
Bought it from B&H, living in Israel. Shipping is complicated, expensive and covered only by me.
I believe in Blackmagic and their products.
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AbdoulUK

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostThu Jun 06, 2019 10:10 pm

ah I understand
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mossmoss_Studio

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostFri Jun 07, 2019 10:34 pm

I finally got my ursa g2 fully set up and was ready to do some tests before an upcoming shoot and the camera started glitching like crazy. The glitches are also baked into the footage making the camera unusable. Has anyone figured this out or do I just need to send it in?

Here's some footage.

https://vimeo.com/340789329/45ae552ef2
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AbdoulUK

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostSat Jun 08, 2019 6:18 am

Send that back. Looks like a hardware issue that others have reported
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guy.pinto

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostSat Jun 08, 2019 11:33 am

Are these glitching / frame tearing happening in any specific frame rate of codec (braw / prores)?
I shoot some short high speed HD fotages in braw and it not happened (maybe because they where very short). On the other hand, shooting in proress 444, 4k gave me the same frame tearing described above.
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Vess Stoytchev

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostSat Jun 08, 2019 12:54 pm

guy.pinto wrote:
AbdoulUK wrote:I thought the first thing you would of done is send it back?


Sending it back is an expensive option. I will lose about $1000 (round international shipment and taxes), when I convinced it can be fixed by a firmware upgrade.

As its a common problem, I hope Blackmagic will fix it quickly in there next firmware.


When we had UMP issues, BM sent us a courier from DHL to pick up the unit. The entire process was paid by BM. You don't have to go through your local dealer, just get in touch with BM support.
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David Hutchinson

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostSat Jun 08, 2019 1:31 pm

What surprises me is that surely the cameras are checked as they come off the production line? For so many of them to have the same fault seems like really poor QA.

I placed a preorder for a G2 the day it was announced, just wondering now if I should cancel and wait till the next batch?
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Stephen Fitzgerald

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostSat Jun 08, 2019 2:30 pm

I’d be interested to know the Quality Assurance from BMD. Seems like a bad batch.

David, I’d wait, unless you NEED this camera now (which well it doesn’t work so you don’t have it anyone)
My philosophy with all BMD cameras is to wait a year after the camera is out, this lets them get through quite a few firmware updates. First runs of most products aren’t as good as subsequent batches.
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AbdoulUK

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostSat Jun 08, 2019 3:01 pm

David Hutchinson wrote:What surprises me is that surely the cameras are checked as they come off the production line? For so many of them to have the same fault seems like really poor QA.

I placed a preorder for a G2 the day it was announced, just wondering now if I should cancel and wait till the next batch?


I'd assume that since no European batch has been distributed yet that BM will address this before they begin shipping to Europe. From the little I know about QC, only general checks are made, so something that only happens in proes 4444 while shooting at a particular shutter speed for example may be missed and relies on beta testers to report such findings. It seems though that BM maybe include their first customers as part of the beta testing, or so the evidence would indicate.

My guess is that by the time they start shipping to Europe, the bigger problems like frame tearing will have been addressed. I honestly believe that particular problem is hardware and not firmware.
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David Hutchinson

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Re: Ursa Mini Pro G2 Issues so far

PostSat Jun 08, 2019 3:55 pm

Stephen Fitzgerald wrote:I’d be interested to know the Quality Assurance from BMD. Seems like a bad batch.

David, I’d wait, unless you NEED this camera now (which well it doesn’t work so you don’t have it anyone)
My philosophy with all BMD cameras is to wait a year after the camera is out, this lets them get through quite a few firmware updates. First runs of most products aren’t as good as subsequent batches.


I could survive without it, but I'm doing a lot of Wildlife filming where the 180fps at 4k would be very useful. Sure my BMPCC4ks and Broadcast Ursa would get me through but if I miss the shots this year I have to wait to do them next year. Although it's a 2 year production timetable the time I'm investing now needs to be at the my preferred speed and resolution, the cost of the camera is minor compared to the time needed to get the shots.
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