New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

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Chris Mo

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New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostTue May 07, 2019 7:14 pm

Hello,

I just got my Pocket 4k shipped and it has firmware version 6.2.1 as factory default. I want to "downgrade" to version 6.1 (maybe 5.2) for several reasons, but the most important one is Cinema DNG - I need this video/file formate for my work.

This downgrade is NOT possible with the Tools provided by BMD.

The camera was advertised having Cinema DNG, thats why I bought it, now I can't go back to the older firmware. Please release a BM Camera Setup Version that includes a "downgrade" option (maybe to 5.2, so that everyone can upgrade to the desired version). Otherwise I will have to return my camera.

I'm very disappointed how BMD is handling this, by silently shipping modified cameras that prevent functions accessible to other customers.
(Its also highly illegal here in Germany to block a function that was advertised at the time of purchase.)
Last edited by Chris Mo on Wed May 08, 2019 6:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: BMPCC 4k firmware downgrade NOT possible!

PostTue May 07, 2019 7:31 pm

Hi Chris, I thought I had the same problem, but the problem was due to a USB cable. Have you seen this thread:
http://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87063&p=494846&hilit=downgrade+firmware#p494846
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pnguyen720

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Re: BMPCC 4k firmware downgrade NOT possible!

PostTue May 07, 2019 7:33 pm

I've successfully downgraded from 6.2.1 to 6.1 a few times and vice versa with no issues.
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Chris Mo

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Re: BMPCC 4k firmware downgrade NOT possible!

PostTue May 07, 2019 7:47 pm

Hi Lauri,

thanks for the link, but...

- I'm using a MacPro 5.1 which has only USB 2.0 with a USB 3.0-USB C adapter cable. Shouldn't that work?

- When starting the BM Camera Setup 6.1 app and connecting the camera, I get "Your camera is up to date". No button to upgrade, no option to do anything. (The other users in the linked post had update-fails, so at least they had the option to update.)

=> If the cable/USB-port is the problem, is it possible to not get any "update" button?
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Chris Mo

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Re: BMPCC 4k firmware downgrade NOT possible!

PostTue May 07, 2019 7:49 pm

@pnguyen720

How did you downgrade?

Just install and start BM Camera Setup 6.1, connect the camera and press the button?

(Or did you do a factory reset in camera?)
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pnguyen720

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Re: BMPCC 4k firmware downgrade NOT possible!

PostTue May 07, 2019 8:04 pm

Hi Chris,

Yes, it was the same way I upgraded. I did not do a factory reset either way.

Uninstall any Blackmagic setup.
Install the version I want.
Plug in and turn on the camera. I'm using the USB cable that came with my Samsung phone so not sure the version that is.
Run the BM setup.
Press the Upgrade button and it downgrades or upgrades to the version I want.

If this is not working for you, I wonder if something is different with the Pocket 4Ks that come with 6.2.1 pre installed. Mine came with 6.1 IIRC.
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Chris Mo

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Re: BMPCC 4k firmware downgrade NOT possible!

PostTue May 07, 2019 8:12 pm

Thanks pnguyen720 for the quick reply.

I will check again on my Windows machine tomorrow, which has never seen a BM Camera Setup software before, just to make sure that isn't the problem.

I really hope that the new 6.2.1 pockets are no different than the older cameras...!
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Chris Mo

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Re: BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) firmware downgrade NOT possible!

PostWed May 08, 2019 6:38 pm

Here it is: The new Pocket 4k that ships with version 6.2.1 PREVENTS any downgrade!

This is Blackmagic Camera Setup 6.1:
Image

The camera was advertised with CDNG, this feature was removed AFTER purchase - this is illegal (and a very disappointing move by BM)!
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David Chapman

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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostWed May 08, 2019 7:19 pm

Chris Mo,

This is what you need to do: Download a previous firmware package from the site. In the installer, use the uninstall tool to remove the older Camera app. Then install the previous version. Now you can install the previous version.

This is user error on your part. You never got rid of the older installer, thus the screen correctly shows your camera is up to date.
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Jack Fairley

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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostWed May 08, 2019 7:31 pm

Chris Mo wrote:I'm very disappointed how BMD is handling this, by silently shipping modified cameras that prevent functions accessible to other customers.
(Its also highly illegal here in Germany to block a function that was advertised at the time of purchase.)

Next time try contacting support, or search this forum. You would have already downgraded the camera, and would not have had to make this thread. :roll:
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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostWed May 08, 2019 9:09 pm

Hello David,

not sure what you talking about: I downloaded Camera Setup 6.1 and installed it on a computer with NO previous install of that software (its a brand new machine, Windows PC). Yes, I did a second test with a different computer (as writen in my later posts).

So, there was absolutely only the Setup version 6.1 EVER on that computer. The tool connected to my Pocket 4k with no problem and displayed the screen I posted.

It never gave me the option to upgrade or downgrade the camera software - no button to klick!


@Jack
I searched the forum, I did try several things suggested - same result: no update possible. But maybe you know exactly what I'm doing wrong, so please enlighten me.


(This problem is NOT related to the USB-C connection problems and failed updates so many people writing about in this forum.)
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David Chapman

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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostWed May 08, 2019 9:40 pm

I would try downloading 6.1.1 (which had a fix for Windows installing), not just 6.1. If that doesn't work, surely you can roll back to 5.2 and then back up to 6.1.1.
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Robert Niessner

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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostWed May 08, 2019 9:51 pm

Yes, what David wrote.
Uninstall 6.1 and install 5.2.
This should let you downgrade to 5.2.
Now uninstall 5.2 and install 6.1 again and update to 6.1
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MrLambda

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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostWed May 08, 2019 10:00 pm

This might be the wrong place to ask, but is there a point in downgrading? Does DNG has any advantages over Raw?
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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostThu May 09, 2019 2:19 am

At the risk of going off-topic, that’s a debate previously discussed in a different topic here. One possible advantage for uncompressed CinemaDNG is that it is uncompressed, no loss of any detail. It also then is super easy to use any DNG frame as a still for publicity or other purpose. BRAW has no option like that, but allows even higher compression which can have other workflow advantages.


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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostThu May 09, 2019 2:31 am

Personally, I think the touch focus on 6.1 works much better than the current touch-and-hold.
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Chris Mo

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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostThu May 09, 2019 5:09 pm

@David, @Robert:

It didn't make sense after trying 6.1, I gave it a try anyway -> result: NO up/downgrade possible!

This is BM Camera Setup 5.2 (after deinstalling 6.1):

Image

The new Pocket 4Ks are different and prevent downgrading!
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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostThu May 09, 2019 5:27 pm

Hmm..Maybe Blackmagic can chime in here.
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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostThu May 09, 2019 6:06 pm

pnguyen720 wrote:Personally, I think the touch focus on 6.1 works much better than the current touch-and-hold.


I cannot agree more! I used the previous tap focus for weeks (in 6.1) on a long form documentary I am currently shooting and it was wonderful. I have the BMPCC 4k mounted on a Ronin S and the ease of getting tap focus on fast moving shots, high and low was fantastic. My DP, an A.S.C. cinematographer agree enthusiastically.

Then...

I upgraded to 6.2 to get the BM raw capability and we have been struggling ever since getting the touch and hold focus to work smoothly.We find ourselves repeatedly touching the screen and tapping and the extra latency when it does engage is a considerable frustration. It seems that if I have any perspiration on my fingertips it compounds the problem of the screen registering my touch which did not happen with the simple tap version.

I am literally going to uninstall 6.2 ( losing the BM raw (which I love)) to go back to the previous tap focus.
Blackmagic, if you are listening, please please give us the option to have either a menu driven option to select (or revert to) the previous tap focus or select touch and hold for those who prefer. This was one time your firmware improvement resulted in a more crippled function, in my opinion.
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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostFri May 10, 2019 5:16 am

We recently had to change the type of LCD touchscreens that we use in the manufacturing of the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K. In order to use the new touchscreens, cameras were shipped with v6.2.1 of our Blackmagic Camera software. Unfortunately, cameras with v6.2.1 pre-installed will not be downgradable to v6.1 as the v6.1 software does not support the new screen.
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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostFri May 10, 2019 7:04 am

Kristian, would it be possible to make a revised version 6.1 with support for the new LCD so user with the need for CDNG have the choice to downgrade?
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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostFri May 10, 2019 11:49 am

Hello Kristian,

thanks for the information, but that sound a bit fishy... take a choice:

a) This is just BS, there are no other screens in the new Pockets, you just try to calm the waves and try to get away with it, by telling people tech details they don't understand. (How many screens on the market are so identical in every aspect, yet BM decides to use different driver chips, just because?)

b) There are hardware differences (e.g. screens), BM new that weeks/month in advance, but decided not to tell anyone - fooling customers and trying to get away with it.

c) BM internal hiccup (the technical guy told the marketing guy, but he didn't understand exactly...) - things like that just happen in big companies. So, BM is feeling very sorry about the confusion and the implications for there customers and will release a Firmware 6.1b for the new Pockets on Monday. (Just recompile 6.1 with the display library from 6.3 - should take a skilled programmer between 10 min. and half a day if there is a bit of code to change.)

(I really do hope its option c) - but knowing how big companies work today, I would say its probably a).)
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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostFri May 10, 2019 12:39 pm

Kristian Lam wrote:We recently had to change the type of LCD touchscreens that we use in the manufacturing of the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K. In order to use the new touchscreens, cameras were shipped with v6.2.1 of our Blackmagic Camera software. Unfortunately, cameras with v6.2.1 pre-installed will not be downgradable to v6.1 as the v6.1 software does not support the new screen.



What is the difference between the new LCD touch screen and the old version???? My BMPCC4K package says RAW. I don't want to spend the same money but buy a defective LCD touch screen.
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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostFri May 10, 2019 1:29 pm

Thanks for the update, Kristian.

At least we have a definitive answer on why you can't downgrade.

But.. there's a new touchscreen? What about those of us with the older touchscreen?
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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostFri May 10, 2019 2:41 pm

I realise companies don’t have to share this kind of information, but for the sake of clarity and calming users’ nerves, it would be great if BMD could

1) Explain why the LCD had to be changed to a different part and/or supplier.

2) Consider re-introducing uncompressed Cinema DNG as an option, but leave the compressed versions out.
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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostFri May 10, 2019 3:44 pm

Chris Mo wrote:Hello Kristian,

thanks for the information, but that sound a bit fishy... take a choice:

a) This is just BS, there are no other screens in the new Pockets, you just try to calm the waves and try to get away with it, by telling people tech details they don't understand. (How many screens on the market are so identical in every aspect, yet BM decides to use different driver chips, just because?)

b) There are hardware differences (e.g. screens), BM new that weeks/month in advance, but decided not to tell anyone - fooling customers and trying to get away with it.

c) BM internal hiccup (the technical guy told the marketing guy, but he didn't understand exactly...) - things like that just happen in big companies. So, BM is feeling very sorry about the confusion and the implications for there customers and will release a Firmware 6.1b for the new Pockets on Monday. (Just recompile 6.1 with the display library from 6.3 - should take a skilled programmer between 10 min. and half a day if there is a bit of code to change.)

(I really do hope its option c) - but knowing how big companies work today, I would say its probably a).)


Or d) it is just like Kristian wrote: they had to source a new screen (maybe because the other one was not manufactured anymore or there is a delay - that happens all the time in any industry), which needs need new driver software and BMD did not invest man power to make this new screen backward compatible in firmware because they didn't see the need.

Chris, at least show some respect! Kristian LAM isn't a marketing guy posting here, he is the product manager of BMD, holds some patents on the very first BMD cameras and is the father of the PCC4K.
When we get information from Kristian, then it is always first hand only.
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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostFri May 10, 2019 4:34 pm

1) Explain why the LCD had to be changed to a different part and/or supplier.


This is common among manufacturers to swap out hardware that is problematic. They are called "hardware revisions". Just like you have software revisions, you can have hardware too, based on what's most problematic according to support. In fact, this is a good thing.

2) Consider re-introducing uncompressed Cinema DNG as an option, but leave the compressed versions out.


If the problem was indeed a looming lawsuit by another manufacturer, this is unlikely to happen. On the other hand, in the US there are laws that protect consumers from having the rug pulled from underneath them. My guess is that BMD is in a tough spot about this issue, and maybe we can cut them some slack.
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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostFri May 10, 2019 4:55 pm

Agreed, read the small print on any product, “the Manufacturer reserves the right to make changes to it as required, and changes to specifications.” This change in touch screens (for whatever reason) is either a supply issue, or a long term product improvement (not apparent right now). Specifications and features are subject to change.

That said, I find Chris Mo’s reply comment a, b, c excuses highly offensive, and is it unprofessional comments like this that drive would be contributors away from this site. This will be my last post on the Pocket Cameras and their use. Goodbye.
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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostFri May 10, 2019 5:10 pm

Yikes.
Waiting for a second pocket 4k to arrive. Really hoping it's an older model or BMD fixes the Braw issues...
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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostFri May 10, 2019 5:14 pm

@Robert

If BM had to source a new screen, they new that BEVOR production of the new batch, but didn't tell any user that there are some fundamental changes to the camera... why?

I had a lot of respect for BMD, I'm useing there products for years now and thought they where one of the last companies lead by tech guys rather than stockexchange-maximumprofit-a*holes. But why are they pulling such a stunt with Cinema DNG?

If this was just a misunderstanding/unfortunate events/..., then why is there not already a new 6.1 firmware for download? I feel cheated, thats the reason for my lack of respect.

(BM made some agreement with Red about the RAW video patents - but why? Cinema DNG is outside of all Red patents (which would not hold up against a really big law suit anyway) and there is no need to take CDNG away from users - some of us need these raw data. That was the reason why I started using BM cameras at all and why I bought the Pocket 4k. If I knew bevorehand that the Pocket would not have a real RAW format I wouldn't have bought it.)
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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostFri May 10, 2019 6:00 pm

Chris Mo wrote:@Robert

If BM had to source a new screen, they new that BEVOR production of the new batch, but didn't tell any user that there are some fundamental changes to the camera... why?

I had a lot of respect for BMD, I'm useing there products for years now and thought they where one of the last companies lead by tech guys rather than stockexchange-maximumprofit-a*holes. But why are they pulling such a stunt with Cinema DNG?

If this was just a misunderstanding/unfortunate events/..., then why is there not already a new 6.1 firmware for download? I feel cheated, thats the reason for my lack of respect.

(BM made some agreement with Red about the RAW video patents - but why? Cinema DNG is outside of all Red patents (which would not hold up against a really big law suit anyway) and there is no need to take CDNG away from users - some of us need these raw data. That was the reason why I started using BM cameras at all and why I bought the Pocket 4k. If I knew bevorehand that the Pocket would not have a real RAW format I wouldn't have bought it.)


Feel some comfort knowing that I have the ability to downgrade my pocket to support cdng again and won't...partly because of temper tantrums like these. Did you even try out Blackmagic raw? :D
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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostFri May 10, 2019 6:05 pm

I can download to previous versions, but I haven’t. I left CDNG a long time ago.
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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostFri May 10, 2019 6:42 pm

I did it a few times no issue.
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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostFri May 10, 2019 6:52 pm

I have no problem with Blackmagic decision really, I fully understand their reason for it and respect their decision. Coming with newer cameras with out the option to downgrade the camera to get the DNG is just expected and normal thing to do as a next step in the situation.

The cDNG lossless was my main reason going for BM cameras, Lossless DNG for a nice price, most of my paying customers are requiring DNG for their projects and there is no way telling them to use something else.
It is not a problem, ill just stay on older firmware as is, or until BRAW will full fill my customers requirements.

I hope there will come to the point that development of BRAW makes it able to replace DNG fully but it is not there yet for my customers and there fore not for me. It still needs more work.
But we will see, I strongly believe that BM will come up with the solution as always, time will tell.

P.s. The camera has/had lossless DNG, not uncompressed DNG :D
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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostFri May 10, 2019 10:59 pm

Eugenia Loli wrote:If the problem was indeed a looming lawsuit by another manufacturer, this is unlikely to happen. On the other hand, in the US there are laws that protect consumers from having the rug pulled from underneath them. My guess is that BMD is in a tough spot about this issue, and maybe we can cut them some slack.


As far as I understood, the licensing/patent issue is with compressed RAW, not uncompressed.
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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostFri May 10, 2019 11:18 pm

Yawn
I literally spent 10 minutes reading everything on this topic, but will watch for weeks as people try to turn this into some big conspiracy

Manufacturing change (major component changed) requires a new driver which has nothing to do with RAW, yet it must be BMD being mean.

Simple manufacturing processes, they go on all the time
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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostFri May 10, 2019 11:31 pm

As far as I understood, the licensing/patent issue is with compressed RAW, not uncompressed.

I don't think the camera ever supported uncompressed raw so that would be a bit academic.

I can, from personal experience, understand it's annoying to buy a camera or other device and have the specs change while you were waiting for it to arrive - but camera specs do change and hardware gets revised and anyone who's been in this industry for more than five minutes has seen it happen dozens of times across many manufacturers.

I would think most countries consumer laws would allow the OP to pack the camera up and return it for a refund if that change has made the camera not fit for his purpose.

As I said, I completely understand why he's annoyed but but stuff happens and it's time for him to either keep it or return it and move on, I think.
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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostSat May 11, 2019 2:39 am

Christian Schmeer wrote:I realise companies don’t have to share this kind of information, but for the sake of clarity and calming users’ nerves, it would be great if BMD could

1) Explain why the LCD had to be changed to a different part and/or supplier.


Hi,

Sometimes parts go end of life and there needs to be a replacement. This is not uncommon in manufacturing.
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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostSat May 11, 2019 7:23 am

Yes, parts go end of life - but not unexpected, not within a couple of days. BMD knew that weeks/month in advance, they knew that information about downgradeing the firmware will not apply to the new batch of cameras and they knew that some people need that option. But still they said nothing!

BM didn't even tell retailers. Look at the information on all big online stores: "... Cinema DNG.."

And changing a core functionallity without informing customers in advance is not legal, and a really bad way to treat customers.
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Kristian Lam

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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostSat May 11, 2019 7:46 am

Hi Chris,

I understand your frustration and how this product is not suitable for you. Please contact your reseller and I'm sure they will be able to organize a return and refund.
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Dan Keeble

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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostSat May 11, 2019 7:52 am

Whining about this isn't going to change anything. Perhaps a new camera system should be an option for you.
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Chris Mo

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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostSat May 11, 2019 8:07 am

@Kristian

I'm sure the reseller will accept the return (they know they are allready in trouble for "false advertising").

Thats not why I am so frustrated. The Pocket 4k with CDNG is the PERFEKT camera for my needs. I was very happy BMD releasing this camera... and now, intentionally missled/flase advertising/marketing blabla/...

And it comes back to the same point every time: It is in every aspect not ok what BMD is doing here! This is just lying to your customers.

If it was just a mistake by BMD, than correcting it would be easy and fast and everybody would be happy. But what you write just shows, that BMD has no intend to do so.


And I can't just exchange my Pocket for an older one, as all the resellers don't have any left in stock. Does BMD offer an exchange of new vs. old Pocket 4ks?
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Shaoyan

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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostSat May 11, 2019 3:16 pm

I just registered to ask a question and voice my 2cents.

I have been using pcket camera mk I. I also have a bmmcc as well. The reason I like it is because of their cDNG. I understand there are pros and cons. I am here to convince or to be convinced one way or the other. It all down to personal need and preferrence. People choose to to use one format as opposed to other must have a reason.

I thought the pocket mk II will be the last BMD camera to have CDNG. This obvioulsy has changed. I ordered mine the a while back, and still waiting. I thought I could always downgrade to cDNG firmware. This obviously has changed. I am going to cancel my order. But I still want a pocket 4k. My questions is how I can get an earlier version? Is there a way we can tell, for example, by serial numbcustomers, I dont think it is ethical to open a box and return it after realizing it is not the version you want. I think it would be the right thing for the BMD to officially annouce such changes. This change in spec is HUGH (to me), it should warranty some transparancy to customers, unless BMD plans to update earlier firmware. From the response so far, I don't see that is gonna happen. The vague response leaves a lot of customers with a false hope.

Technically, I highly doubt different LCD is the reason.
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jsmith

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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostMon May 13, 2019 2:06 pm

Chris Mo wrote:@Kristian

I'm sure the reseller will accept the return (they know they are allready in trouble for "false advertising").

Thats not why I am so frustrated. The Pocket 4k with CDNG is the PERFEKT camera for my needs. I was very happy BMD releasing this camera... and now, intentionally missled/flase advertising/marketing blabla/...

And it comes back to the same point every time: It is in every aspect not ok what BMD is doing here! This is just lying to your customers.

If it was just a mistake by BMD, than correcting it would be easy and fast and everybody would be happy. But what you write just shows, that BMD has no intend to do so.


And I can't just exchange my Pocket for an older one, as all the resellers don't have any left in stock. Does BMD offer an exchange of new vs. old Pocket 4ks?


It's on the reseller for not updating it's marketing material. Blackmagic doesn't sell directly to individuals so the resellers are their customers. It is the resellers responsibility to then sell to you with current information because you are their customer. Blackmagic from what I had seen had removed CDNG from the spec when they were forced to remove it. If the reseller did not do that then it is on them.
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Chris Whitten

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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostMon May 13, 2019 2:50 pm

If you just received your camera, you can return it as no longer suitable - without all the hyperbole and super aggressive posturing.
The story about CDNG has been discussed several times, every which way, on this forum. So if you need more background to understand it's NOT about 'pure profit' and 'sneaky marketing' then I suggest you read up on it.
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Olivier Chira

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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostMon May 13, 2019 3:56 pm

I understand Chris Mo's frustration.

I'm lucky to have one of the first cameras out, so I can keep using CDNG. BRAW is good for sure. I'm sure it will get better. BUT it is true that the whole idea, the whole concept of Blackmagic cameras stands on the ability to shoot raw. It was the main commercial argument until this patent issue.

Dismissing cdng, like this is nothing, like it has become an outdated codec overnight makes no sense. Eventhough I understand why Blackmagic would do that, as they really have no choice once they decided not to go to court against RED. Not having raw is a (forced) change of state of mind, a big one. I would have like them to fight more for what they strived for.

And my theory about not being able to downgrade is the following : they must have some kind of agreement with RED to avoid being sued. Like, release a new firmware without cdng and from now on, all the cameras you manufacture can't have cdng by downgrading. And we leave you alone with the ones already out (UMP, Micro, some BMPCC4K). And it might be no coincidence that there's also a replacement for the UMP with the G2. It would make sense, and the only real "fault" of BM is to let cdng go without a fight !
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Tim Lota

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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostMon May 13, 2019 6:21 pm

Actually, as soon as the BRAW firmware was released, they changed all the descriptions on this site from DNG to BRAW. Also, they updated the manual and gave a statement about the change. So they never false-advertised.
It's not BMD's fault if third party retailers don't update their sites/shops, or if you don't stay informed while having something pre-ordered - you could have just canceled the pre-order as soon as news broke.

Since you are from Germany you should have no problem returning the camera within 14/30 days and get your money back. Then you can get another cam that suits your needs.
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lee4ever

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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostMon May 13, 2019 8:46 pm

Sorry for speaking back to you objectively. BMD has not announced that CinemaDNG will be replaced by BRAW? And also not that a downgrade to firmware with CinemaDNG will no longer be possible. Please be honest and don't blame the customers. This is not okay.
It is the way it is, BMD does not give much information if something is changed afterwards.

BRAW isn't bad, and it's bound to get better over time.
It is definitely better than if BMD had simply removed CinemaDNG and offered no alternative.
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Australian Image

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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostMon May 13, 2019 9:02 pm

What's the big issue with people wanting to hold on to CDNG like an old pair of boots that need replacing? From what I've read and seen, the vast majority of film makers who don't use a RAW format of one type or another, use ProRes. And those who were using ProRes, will soon have available ProRes RAW.

Have those who moan about this really tried BRAW? Or is that those who want CDNG don't (or won't) use Resolve? Some people need to build a bridge and get over it.
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lee4ever

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Re: New BMPCC 4k (6.2.1) prevents firmware downgrade!

PostMon May 13, 2019 9:21 pm

CinemaDNG/RAW is for some customers part of the decision to buy a BM camera. If BRAW were better, some customers would not complain. BRAW is also professional, but not better than CinemaDNG.
ProRes is also professional, but not better than CinemaDNG.
That is no consolation for the disappointed customers, only an honest opinion and fact.
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