Blackmagic Forum

Posted: **Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:50 pm**

I know everyone is waiting to see some 4k footage
but Grant made it clear that he would choose the BMCC over the 4k for a cinema/film look.

After having spent a couple of weeks with the BMCC,
I wouldn´t want to swap it for another sensor,
not even with higher resolution!
this one's "special" !

Posted: **Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:29 pm**

Is this......like....a positive post? I'm speechless John... :mrgreen:

Posted: **Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:59 pm**

I'm tempted to just buy a BMCC camera and stop waiting on the 4k one. I don't own a 4k tv, even if I did, I don't own a 4k output device/card. I'm also not to crazy about shooting 4k footage on 12tb of hard drives and then needing 12tb for redundancy/backups. Then there is the added time to dump footage. Added cost of more SSDs. And even if I go through all that and finish at 4k, I don't know a single person who owns a 4k TV with 4k playback to even watch it. I wouldn't be able to share it with anyone I know. Maybe a few rich strangers online. I estimate it will be at least another 1-2 years before 4K is even really possible for consumers to afford. And by then, there will likely be better 4K cameras for cheaper that do more. Possibly even by the same company.

However I still want one. It's very frustrating. :lol:

Posted: **Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:05 pm**

All else equal, the 4K capture should have less moire/aliasing and higher detail than a 2.5k camera even when converting to 1080p.

I think the BMCC captures beautiful images and am looking forward to what the 4K camera can do.

Posted: **Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:38 pm**

Scott Pultz wrote:All else equal, the 4K capture should have less moire/aliasing and higher detail than a 2.5k camera even when converting to 1080p ...

I can imagine that the BMPC-4K is likely to record higher real detail compared to the BMCC.

However, I'll need to see camera-original BMPC-4K files before I'm convinced the BMPC-4K will be less prone to moire & aliasing compared to the BMCC. Unless JB assures us beforehand.

I used to own a broadcast 3-CDD camcorder (Sony DSR-450WSL), and its relatively high-resolution sensors tended to record a lot of moire & aliasing onto its DVCAM (SD) media. As a result, I'm perhaps over-sensitive to this aspect of the "unknown" BMPC-4K video quality. I'm hoping this fear is unfounded, and that the moire & aliasing issue in the DSR-450WSL was perhaps due to a mismatch between its sensor res and its OLPF or the res of DVCAM.

Am curious to learn more on this topic from the smart people in the room.

Cheers.

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:29 am**

http://nofilmschool.com/2013/04/blackmagic-releases-1-3-firmware-president-dan-may/

Regarding Dan’s comment about the camera being a little less sharp: even though he’s talking about the 4K camera, I would be very surprised if it was actually less sharp than the 2.5K camera when both of them are downscaled to 1080p. Of course both of them will have varying degrees of sharpness at full resolution, but theoretically even if the 4K camera has a low pass filter, I would expect them to be around equal at 1080p at the worst (but of course we won’t know until we get our hands on one).

I am just wondering, whats the advantage of the 4K if you need to downscale it to 1080 to get the same image ac the BMCC?

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:16 am**

John Bartman wrote:
http://nofilmschool.com/2013/04/blackmagic-releases-1-3-firmware-president-dan-may/

Regarding Dan’s comment about the camera being a little less sharp: even though he’s talking about the 4K camera, I would be very surprised if it was actually less sharp than the 2.5K camera when both of them are downscaled to 1080p. Of course both of them will have varying degrees of sharpness at full resolution, but theoretically even if the 4K camera has a low pass filter, I would expect them to be around equal at 1080p at the worst (but of course we won’t know until we get our hands on one).

I am just wondering, whats the advantage of the 4K if you´ve got to downscale it to 1080?

You don't have to downscale to 1080p. Merely downscale to 2.5k in theory still yield more detail than the BMCC at max resolution. With 4k it allows for cropping which is handy if you need to crop out hand held shot when adding stabalizing effect. And not to forget the 4k camera has global shutter and S35 sensor.
As for the 13 stop vs 12 stop we already seen the different is not that great between the BMCC and the latest Canon ML RAW hack albeit exposed differently. The film look is subjective. What consider film look 25 years ago looks rather different in the digital age. If you need a particular look that is were grading comes in.

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:37 am**

Robert Bentley wrote:I'm tempted to just buy a BMCC camera and stop waiting on the 4k one. I don't own a 4k tv, even if I did, I don't own a 4k output device/card. I'm also not to crazy about shooting 4k footage on 12tb of hard drives and then needing 12tb for redundancy/backups. Then there is the added time to dump footage. Added cost of more SSDs. And even if I go through all that and finish at 4k, I don't know a single person who owns a 4k TV with 4k playback to even watch it. I wouldn't be able to share it with anyone I know. Maybe a few rich strangers online. I estimate it will be at least another 1-2 years before 4K is even really possible for consumers to afford. And by then, there will likely be better 4K cameras for cheaper that do more. Possibly even by the same company.

However I still want one. It's very frustrating.

2:1 compression on the 4k cam.
Reason is due to the limits of ssd transfer. which the bmcc kind of comes close to hitting.

Data rate is going to be similar to the bmcc at RAW due to that fact - you should be more worried about your computing power handleing 4k dng files, than your memory.

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:03 am**

paulkosmala wrote:
Robert Bentley wrote:I'm tempted to just buy a BMCC camera and stop waiting on the 4k one. I don't own a 4k tv, even if I did, I don't own a 4k output device/card. I'm also not to crazy about shooting 4k footage on 12tb of hard drives and then needing 12tb for redundancy/backups. Then there is the added time to dump footage. Added cost of more SSDs. And even if I go through all that and finish at 4k, I don't know a single person who owns a 4k TV with 4k playback to even watch it. I wouldn't be able to share it with anyone I know. Maybe a few rich strangers online. I estimate it will be at least another 1-2 years before 4K is even really possible for consumers to afford. And by then, there will likely be better 4K cameras for cheaper that do more. Possibly even by the same company.

However I still want one. It's very frustrating.

2:1 compression on the 4k cam.
Reason is due to the limits of ssd transfer. which the bmcc kind of comes close to hitting.

Data rate is going to be similar to the bmcc at RAW due to that fact - you should be more worried about your computing power handleing 4k dng files, than your memory.

Dear lord you are all confused, I'll let your comments resonate for awhile, like a fine wine before it's time, someone may open the bottle someday and take a taste :geek:

But I would never buy the Bottle if it's not ready.

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:07 pm**

sean mclennan wrote:Is this......like....a positive post? I'm speechless John...

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:39 pm**

Darryl Gregory wrote:
paulkosmala wrote:
Robert Bentley wrote:I'm tempted to just buy a BMCC camera and stop waiting on the 4k one. I don't own a 4k tv, even if I did, I don't own a 4k output device/card. I'm also not to crazy about shooting 4k footage on 12tb of hard drives and then needing 12tb for redundancy/backups. Then there is the added time to dump footage. Added cost of more SSDs. And even if I go through all that and finish at 4k, I don't know a single person who owns a 4k TV with 4k playback to even watch it. I wouldn't be able to share it with anyone I know. Maybe a few rich strangers online. I estimate it will be at least another 1-2 years before 4K is even really possible for consumers to afford. And by then, there will likely be better 4K cameras for cheaper that do more. Possibly even by the same company.

However I still want one. It's very frustrating.

2:1 compression on the 4k cam.
Reason is due to the limits of ssd transfer. which the bmcc kind of comes close to hitting.

Data rate is going to be similar to the bmcc at RAW due to that fact - you should be more worried about your computing power handleing 4k dng files, than your memory.

Dear lord you are all confused, I'll let your comments resonate for awhile, like a fine wine before it's time, someone may open the bottle someday and take a taste But I would never buy the Bottle if it's not ready.

If I am wrong - please correct me, so That I will be less wrong in the future.

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