Blackmagic Forum

Using a BMCC with firmware 1.2 and am still getting the infamous black sun spot when shooting outdoors and the sun is in the frame. I tried Resolve's 'Recover highlights' checkbox but that did not fix the issue. I am actually using Premiere to edit so I would like to somehow solve it there. Any suggestions?

I don't know Premier at all, but making a disk in sun color + tracking a black spot, should work.

There are probably another techniques as well which I'm not aware of. Maybe lens flare + tracking could work as well.

Tom

If you would like I can post a tutorial on this subject using Premiere and After effects, Warning it will be long and boring, But guaranteed best results.

MCShooter wrote:Using a BMCC with firmware 1.2 and am still getting the infamous black sun spot when shooting outdoors and the sun is in the frame. I tried Resolve's 'Recover highlights' checkbox but that did not fix the issue. I am actually using Premiere to edit so I would like to somehow solve it there. Any suggestions?

Resolve could be used with a power window and a tracker to remove it.

Pete Proniewicz-Brooks wrote:

MCShooter wrote:Using a BMCC with firmware 1.2 and am still getting the infamous black sun spot when shooting outdoors and the sun is in the frame. I tried Resolve's 'Recover highlights' checkbox but that did not fix the issue. I am actually using Premiere to edit so I would like to somehow solve it there. Any suggestions?

Resolve could be used with a power window and a tracker to remove it.

Resolve can not do as good a job as After Effects, and is not inline with the round trip and editing needed. Resolves tracker is awesome, but AE is a called After Effects for a reason.

My offer still stands for a few days, If you can stand it a (Boring TUT) I will create it.

This is the only camera I've seen this on. Shouldn't maybe BlackMagic fix this in the firmware rather than us trying to jump through hoops or cut footage out?

Darryl Gregory wrote:

Pete Proniewicz-Brooks wrote:

MCShooter wrote:Using a BMCC with firmware 1.2 and am still getting the infamous black sun spot when shooting outdoors and the sun is in the frame. I tried Resolve's 'Recover highlights' checkbox but that did not fix the issue. I am actually using Premiere to edit so I would like to somehow solve it there. Any suggestions?

Resolve could be used with a power window and a tracker to remove it.

Resolve can not do as good as After Effects, and not inline with the round tripping and editing needed.
Resolves tracker is awesome, but AE is a called After Effects for a reason.

My offer still stands for a few days, If you can stand it (a Boring TUT), I will create it.

Does however add an extra stage, an extra render, assuming a colour grade is being done at some point.

If you have no other reason to go to AE, but you are using Resolve anyway then using AE for this is overkill.

MCShooter wrote:This is the only camera I've seen this on. Shouldn't maybe BlackMagic fix this in the firmware rather than us trying to jump through hoops or cut footage out?

It's a known issue on a number of cameras as it is an inherent issue with CMOS sensors. Many have since used firmware to mask the issue.

There is no way to truely fix it in firmware, where firmware is used it is masking the problem, not fixing it.

Black spots in highlights is where a pixel or group of pixels is so overloaded it temporarily fails. This is potentially causing permanent damage to the camera. Hiding it with a firmware patch is a double edged sword.

It is much safer to use a ND or a Graduated ND or other hardware fix as this will help prolong the life of the camera (and helps keep you aware of the light and how to deal with it.

MCShooter wrote:This is the only camera I've seen this on. Shouldn't maybe BlackMagic fix this in the firmware rather than us trying to jump through hoops or cut footage out?

No footage to cut out, And this is not just related to the BMCC,
5DMKII, or MKIII, or any CMOS Camera can have this BLACK SUN SPOT!
Here is a Halogen head Light on a Range Rover that has a sun spot that was shot on the 5DMKII
Before:


After:


All that is needed is a mask, Then tracking that mask, but the mask must be after all final CC, or it's color will not match any footage color corrected afterwards.
Tracking may also be an issue, that is why I choose to have any and all editing AND CC completed first...Then deal with the sun spots last in AE since that is a Logical and final step in the Editing Processes.

This will be a hard one to adress in firmware, as it's a hardware problem (photon bucket overflow). The firmware has no way to know if the black spot inside a large white area is a sensor malfunction or actually venus transiting the sun... you wouldn't want the firmware to remove venus from your once-in-a-lifetime recording, would you?

The RED One had this in early versions, and they have fixed it in firmware.

The concern about the sun and potential damage is right, but I've seen the black spot even in night shots, where I doubt any serious damage.

Well, what color-values are those blach spots, are they 100% black?
I think a simple Luma Key (aggressive settings only targeting black) could be the easiest option?

Mac Jaeger wrote:This will be a hard one to adress in firmware, as it's a hardware problem (photon bucket overflow). The firmware has no way to know if the black spot inside a large white area is a sensor malfunction or actually venus transiting the sun... you wouldn't want the firmware to remove venus from your once-in-a-lifetime recording, would you?

I guess that depends. Most other cameras (even far less-expensive cameras) don't have this issue. However, I don't know if addressing this issue in-camera can have undesirable consequences, such as negatively impacting dynamic range and such.

Personally, I really hope BMD implements a firmware fix for it if at all possible. And if they do, and if there's an advantage of doing it this way: Maybe they can make it a user pref so the operator can enable it for certain scenes, but keep it turned-off most of the time.

-

Note to self: don't put sun or HID lights in frame.

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:Maybe they can make it a user pref so the operator can enable it for certain scenes, but keep it turned-off most of the time.

From everything i've read that John B has posted publicly, it's VERY difficult for BMD to do anything UI related on the camera (including changing/adding to menus) - i sadly worry so much of what people are hoping for in firmware updates will never come.

CaptainHook wrote:

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:Maybe they can make it a user pref so the operator can enable it for certain scenes, but keep it turned-off most of the time.

From everything i've read that John B has posted publicly, it's VERY difficult for BMD to do anything UI related on the camera (including changing/adding to menus) - i sadly worry so much of what people are hoping for in firmware updates will never come.

As JB said "Buy a camera for what it can do now, Not what you think it may be able to do later"
or...Something like that, My Point is that this was the "single best piece of advise" I have read in many years from a fellow DP, And It is now part of my pre purchasing processes forever.

Sure, but things like audio meters and disk space remaining seem like a "given" and BMD have said firmware updates are part of the plan for the camera line. They never said "but those updates will be very limited cause it's really difficult to change our UI now".. we've only heard that from John. If that's the case, they should let us know IMHO.

But yes, lesson learned. I went in assuming these basic functions would be added with firmware updates, my mistake.

Darryl Gregory wrote:If you would like I can post a tutorial on this subject using Premiere and After effects, Warning it will be long and boring, But guaranteed best results.

hi Darryl,
I have been searching the net for a tutorial on how to fix the black sun effect in post and come across nothing at all until I stumbled on this old post of yours. I for one would love to see the most boring (and therefor I am sure instructive) tutorial on how to do it.
Don't know if your offer still stands or if you ever made the tutorial but if you did please let me know.
thanks,
Patrick

I can whip one up first thing Tomorrow, I'll post a link here as soon as it's done.

Programs used are Adoe Premiere Pro CS6 or better (Needs Dynamic Link) for easy Non pre render workflow, and Adobe after effects CS6 or better.

Cheers

Darryl Gregory wrote:I can whip one up first thing Tomorrow, I'll post a link here as soon as it's done.

Programs used are Adoe Premiere Pro CS6 or better (Needs Dynamic Link) for easy Non pre render workflow, and Adobe after effects CS6 or better.

Cheers

Thank so much
you are a gentleman and a scholar!
Patrick

By the way I will be using 5D MKII footage, But if anyone want's to share some BMD Cinema 2.5K footage with the black sun spot, I can use that instead.

Actually never mind, I will use the 5D footage and do it in Adobe, and in Davinci Resolve.

Thanks

I shared how i do this in resolve 10 about a month ago :

Haha love u Hook! but that is not a real tutorial...Nothing passes in front of the sun, And or that is not a complex enough shot to be considered a tutorial really.

Owning a camera that has this "SUN SPOT" without a Firmware Fix can lead to more complex Roto work to remove it.
But your tutorial works for simple shots, and for simplicity's sake

I'll save my "Real sun spot removal Tutorial" for later.

Cheers

sell your bmcc and get a bmpcc, and sun spots removed, oh wait, still no raw as advertised, darn

Darryl Gregory wrote:By the way I will be using 5D MKII footage, But if anyone want's to share some BMD Cinema 2.5K footage with the black sun spot, I can use that instead.

Actually never mind, I will use the 5D footage and do it in Adobe, and in Davinci Resolve.

Thanks

I can send you a time lapse of a sunset over the Puget Sound that has it in it the whole time. And the sun passes behind trees in a number of places so it would have the challenge of it appearing and disappearing. I have both Raw (2.5k) and pro res clips. I will need a way to get in touch with you and upload it to sugar sync or something similar. Or I am in Marina if you are local to the west side.

CaptainHook wrote:I shared how i do this in resolve 10 about a month ago :

Thank you
I am not sure why my search did not turn that up.

Darryl Gregory wrote:Haha love u Hook! but that is not a real tutorial...Nothing passes in front of the sun, And or that is not a complex enough shot to be considered a tutorial really.

The video was in response to someone saying it takes too long to fix, so i decided to demonstrate and fix it in a minute or so.

I've used the same technique (from the same music video) where the actor does pass in front of the sun though. Same idea, just keyframe that area with key output gain and position. Adds another few minutes but i didn't need to do precise roto work. If i did, i would probably open up Nuke.