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Re: Time of Flight Autofocus is here!

PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:40 am
by Chris Shivers
I just thought about it, maybe you can use multiple ToF sensors while using AI to recognize faces. You can pinpoint where the face is and then have the sensors shoot infrared light when it comes into its vicinity. So instead of havin one sensor shoot light in the middle it can shoot it from the left and right or other directions

Re: Time of Flight Autofocus is here!

PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:46 am
by Johannes Jonsson
Csaba Nagy wrote:
Wayne Steven wrote:Just remember that it will be offset from the true lens centre, and it will not always be perfect in focus, as the different angle of view csn see the centre differently, as different levels of objects in the focus zone may make different things shift in or out of the centre of the TOF's view, so a gap would be there in the TOF, or part yhere, but the lens sees the area next to the gap. If you use a big region of focus, it should get rid of that, but you then you have to deal with the microfocus of which micro distance you want. The closer you are, or the more this can offset, the more it can effect.


This absolutely something to take into account, to put this effect into more visual terms I recorded a similar test in a near pitch black environment to see the infrared beam that is being used to measure distance ( its not visible to the human eye )

Finally something useful to come out of the lack of IR filtration... :lol:



Hi Csaba
Any news?
I never use AF but reading this thread is giving me the idea that your system could be great tool to have in many commercial shots so I am getting quite interested.

Re: Time of Flight Autofocus is here!

PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 8:01 pm
by chris.white
Kim Janson wrote:and there is also a 3rd solution I can think of, but not publick at this time 8-)


So, when is your version coming out, Kim? ;)

Re: Time of Flight Autofocus is here!

PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 10:02 am
by Frank Glencairn
Any news on that?
Looked at the DJI ToF, but you can only use it with a gimbal, so that's no option for me.

Re: Time of Flight Autofocus is here!

PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 5:08 pm
by ricardo marty
If bmd can't develop a good af They should consider developing a lidar for video cameras. That would use blue tooth to update the camera focus. They got great engineers shouldn't be a huge problem. Im sure they can even better it.


Ricardo Marty

Re: Time of Flight Autofocus is here!

PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 6:04 pm
by Frank Glencairn
I second that.

Having a "native" ToF module from BM would be awesome.

Re: Time of Flight Autofocus is here!

PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 9:55 pm
by chris.white
Kim Janson wrote:It might take some time, currently busy with this prototype, but it might be slightly related ;)


Looks interesting. I have to say, the part I really liked about Csaba's was that it used Tilta's Nucleus system... which I do have. So, if you're able to work whatever you're doing into that... ;)
---
Chris

Re: Time of Flight Autofocus is here!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:05 am
by Csaba Nagy
Long time coming. For those that have been following the development of the TOF Autofocus I demonstrated almost two years ago.

This is the next evolutionary step. Over the past few week's I have been prototyping a new product that will allow you to use a DJI 3D Focus Module without the RS2 gimbal! The prototype hardware connects to the 3D Focus module via it's USB-C connection and drives focus of a Blackmagic Camera over Bluetooth.

Images can be seen of the simple handheld setup and everything is powered from the camera. Very minimal!

Image

With the limited testing I've done so far, I can say this solution works fantastic with native MFT Lenses. For this project I actually acquired my first electronic MFT lens ( Lumix 25mm F1.7 ) and it's internal AF motor is perfect for applications such as this.

See more samples here:


This is merely an early look, keep and eye out here for further updates.

Cheers,

Re: Time of Flight Autofocus is here!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:57 am
by ricardo marty
Csaba Nagy wrote:Long time coming. For those that have been following the development of the TOF Autofocus I demonstrated almost two years ago.


This is merely an early look, keep and eye out here for further updates.

Cheers,


Do you think it would work with other auto focus lenses? Like canon ef lenses on a 6k?


Ricardo Marty

Re: Time of Flight Autofocus is here!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:42 am
by Csaba Nagy
ricardo marty wrote:
Csaba Nagy wrote:Long time coming. For those that have been following the development of the TOF Autofocus I demonstrated almost two years ago.


This is merely an early look, keep and eye out here for further updates.

Cheers,


Do you think it would work with other auto focus lenses? Like canon ef lenses on a 6k?


Ricardo Marty


I don't have a BMPCC6K or 6KPro to test with. But I can say that Through the Metabones on the BMPCC4K is very hit and miss in the testing I've done. It's a fluid situation because as new firmware is released with the Blackmagic; compatibility and performance of adapted lenses seem to change constantly. Also Metabones and adapters have their own firmware that changes.

So in short, at least for the initial release: Native MFT lenses will be recommended as they have very good/consistent performance. This isn't to say adapted lenses wont work, it's simply that performance will vary.

Re: Time of Flight Autofocus is here!

PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 8:18 pm
by chris.white
Are you still planning on a version for use with manual lenses and the Tilta Nucleus as previously demonstrated?
---
c

Csaba Nagy wrote:Long time coming. For those that have been following the development of the TOF Autofocus I demonstrated almost two years ago.

This is the next evolutionary step. Over the past few week's I have been prototyping a new product that will allow you to use a DJI 3D Focus Module without the RS2 gimbal! The prototype hardware connects to the 3D Focus module via it's USB-C connection and drives focus of a Blackmagic Camera over Bluetooth.

Images can be seen of the simple handheld setup and everything is powered from the camera. Very minimal!

Image

With the limited testing I've done so far, I can say this solution works fantastic with native MFT Lenses. For this project I actually acquired my first electronic MFT lens ( Lumix 25mm F1.7 ) and it's internal AF motor is perfect for applications such as this.

See more samples here:


This is merely an early look, keep and eye out here for further updates.

Cheers,

Re: Time of Flight Autofocus is here!

PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 8:37 pm
by Ellory Yu
Just watched the last test video. Pretty nice to see good progress happening. Keep up the good innovation. Hopefully BMD's next camera will have time of flight autofocus too.

Re: Time of Flight Autofocus is here!

PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:30 am
by Frank Glencairn
Glad to hear that you take it a step further, and with the price of the DJI module it sound's like a sweet deal. But actually I was really hoping for a solution for manual glass, and an external motor.

Re: Time of Flight Autofocus is here!

PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:13 am
by Csaba Nagy
Frank Glencairn wrote:Glad to hear that you take it a step further, and with the price of the DJI module it sound's like a sweet deal. But actually I was really hoping for a solution for manual glass, and an external motor.


This is a stepping stone product launch and so I hope to develop a more fully fledged "pro" model with motor control as you mention. I was among/if the not the first to demonstrate Tilta motor control almost two years ago now, so I will be aiming to make it compatible with that system.

An obvious extension of this first product is to do motor control using the DJI Motor, which unfortunately has been a bit difficult to reverse engineer but I'm optimistic I can figure that out eventually. Would help If I owned the RS2 and all the other bits to help in that endeavor :?

One thing at time, I was hoping to be a bit further than I am with the first batch of this product to this point, but nothing too severe.

Re: Time of Flight Autofocus is here!

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:02 am
by Frank Glencairn
Thanks Csaba, looking forward to it.

Re: Time of Flight Autofocus is here!

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:46 pm
by ricardo marty
Csaba Nagy

I'm not sure how this works.

1- how do I connect to camera?

2- Does it automatically focus and follows or do I need a separate controlar?

Id wish there was a video on installation and how it operates during shooting.


Ricardo Marty

Re: Time of Flight Autofocus is here!

PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:56 pm
by Henchman
Csaba Nagy wrote:
Frank Glencairn wrote:Glad to hear that you take it a step further, and with the price of the DJI module it sound's like a sweet deal. But actually I was really hoping for a solution for manual glass, and an external motor.


This is a stepping stone product launch and so I hope to develop a more fully fledged "pro" model with motor control as you mention. I was among/if the not the first to demonstrate Tilta motor control almost two years ago now, so I will be aiming to make it compatible with that system.

An obvious extension of this first product is to do motor control using the DJI Motor, which unfortunately has been a bit difficult to reverse engineer but I'm optimistic I can figure that out eventually. Would help If I owned the RS2 and all the other bits to help in that endeavor :?

One thing at time, I was hoping to be a bit further than I am with the first batch of this product to this point, but nothing too severe.



This sounds very cool.
I have the AFX but it's pretty big.
Am interested in seeing your product once it's finished.

Re: Time of Flight Autofocus is here!

PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:43 pm
by danielschweinert
Just got my Ronin RS2 PRO Combo and first thing I did, was open the focus motor case and take a look inside. I also took some photos :-) LOL
Maybe it's useful for someone here. I really like the idea to use this motor with the Lidar module without the gimbal.

Re: Time of Flight Autofocus is here!

PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 7:54 am
by Frank Glencairn
Kim Janson wrote:.. so should be reverse engineered.


Tilta already figured it out for their Float controller - you can switch between Tilta and DJI motors.

Re: Time of Flight Autofocus is here!

PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:31 pm
by Gerfried Guggi
Is there any update on your development for the Nucleus Nano Csaba?
It seems like CDA TEK did ship out some units, but no replys if they will do another batch or develop the firmware further. Would be really great to get some decent AF on pockets with manual lenses 8-)
I got the pocket 6k pro (Leica R kit) and an URSA (Angenieux EZ kit) and would be happy to participate as a beta tester :)

Re: Time of Flight Autofocus is here!

PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:38 pm
by lost_soul
Kim Janson wrote:Hopefully BMD will make the protocol of the new focus and zoom controller available...
...
Over all I do not think fully automatic ToF focus is a solution

The ability to rack focus between two set points seemed a bit fumbly when Grant was showing it but I have no doubt that BMD will get that nailed down solid. When they do it would be a nice add for the cinema cameras.

As for ToF focus I have to agree. I use a mirrorless on the gimbal strictly for the eye autofocus and subject tracking when every thing is moving. ToF will never give us that or any thing close to it. Just because the subjects shirt is in focus doesn't mean their face is.

My opinion is autofocus is some thing that needs to be done in the camera using data from the sensor. Lots of companies are doing it that way and most of them work great. You can have an output from the camera to a follow focus system so it works with cine lenses but ToF feels like a stop gap solution to avoid doing the hard work of getting real AF working.

I am not saying getting AF working is simple. But a pretty big chunk of the industry is adding it and a lot of the early patents will have expired making things easier to do. Resolve does tracking like it is no ones buisness so BMD has in house knowledge abut how it works. They currently have one time autofocus so they know how to do focus. Put them together let me touch a subject on the screen follow it, keep it in focus and I will be happier than a pig in ....

Re: Time of Flight Autofocus is here!

PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:18 am
by Domingo Olmo Martin
Hi Csaba Nagy,
Concerning Tilta Nucleus N communication protocol, are you aware of the following page on Github ?
https://github.com/err4o4/tilta-nucleus