Pocket 4K and Old Lenses

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Denny Smith

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Pocket 4K and Old Lenses

PostSun Sep 08, 2019 5:47 pm

Using the latest glass and setups can be fun, and work well. A former poster here, Ray (Australian Image) had tested quite a few older vintage lenses in the New Pocket 4K when I first came out. Most noteworthy were his tests with Olympus Four Thirds lenses, which while they worked, he felt were not working up to par. He reported that touch focus on the camera’s LCD screen did not focus the lens, the variable f/stop zooms ramped, even when set to a f/stop smaller than their max (i.e. a f/2.8-35 lens set to f/4.0). He had a Oly FT 14-35 f/2.0 Zoom, an excellent lens, and had the same issue, slow, and loud AF when pushing the AF button, touch to focus on the monitor did not work. Unfortunately, I sold my copy of this lens, so I can not test this.

However, I have been using the Panasonic-Leica 25mm MFT DG on my Pocket 4K, which I just received, and it worked well but Focus noise was a little louder than it is on the Oly PenF using the same lens. Then out of curiosity, I put my original Pana-Leica 25, D (FT) lens on the Pocket 4K using the Pana MFT/FT adapter, and the larger FT lens looked right at home on the Pocket 4K, and focused almost as fast as the newer DG lens, with less noise. Focus was a little slower, but not by much. Then I tested touch focus on the LCD, and this worked better than the 25mm DG lens did. Next, I tested the Pana-Leica 14-50 f/2.8-3.5 Zoom, and it also worked quite well, AF was quiet, and fairly fast, and again, touch to focus on the LCD also worked. :o

So now I have new life for two of my favorite FT lenses. I did a ramp test with the 14-50, set it to f/4, and unlike the newer Pana-Leica 12-60 f/2.8-4.0, it did not ramp up or down, but stayed at f/4.0. However unlike the 12-60 again, the older 14-50 is not parfocal, and needs to be refocused when zoomed. The 12-60 holds it focus, and the iris is smoother and quieter on the newer 12-60. Each Zoom will have a place in my kit, but the PL 25mm DG lens went back into the Oly PenF Kit, and the older PL 25mm D lens is in my new Pocket 4K kit. :D

Next, when the new FW comes out adding a S16 crop window, I will start testing some of my vintage Super 16 lenses. What vintage lenses have you been using with the Pocket 4K :?:
Cheers
Last edited by Denny Smith on Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dune00z

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Re: Pocket 4K and Old Lenses

PostSun Sep 08, 2019 8:41 pm

Used a whole heap of Canon FD mount prime lenses. 20mm f2.8, 24 f2.8, 28 f2.8, 35 f2 (non radioactive), 50 f1.4, 85 f1.8, 135 f2.8. Had to do quite a bit of correction in post to remove magenta tint and had to be very careful of flaring with most of them, especially the 50mm. They worked OK, but I was never happy with shooting around some of the issues like softness in the left and right thirds of the frame under f4, flaring, loose mounts, etc.

I Got rid of them and now only use modern EF glass or m43 glass. The Sigma 18-35 and 50-100 is the do all kit for me. Life is now a lot easier.
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Randy Walters

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Re: Pocket 4K and Old Lenses

PostSun Sep 08, 2019 9:07 pm

I’ve always been fond of old Nikkor glass; you can get great lenses for a steal on eBay.

I use them with either inexpensive (dumb) Fotasy adapters, or a Zhongyi Turbo II focal reducer.

My set includes a Nikon 28mm, a 55mm macro, an 80-200mm zoom (my only zoom) and a 300mm tele.

They’re all completely manual – both focus and aperture – and that’s just how I like it.
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carlomacchiavello

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Re: Pocket 4K and Old Lenses

PostSun Sep 08, 2019 9:11 pm

Check Minolta rokkor lenses line. The last line before Minolta was bought from Sony to produce newer lenses for their cameras.
Rokkor serie are excellent lenses with sharpness and gorgeous bohen with very good price on used market. My 50 1.4 (80$) and 55 1.2 (300$) are better than actual canon L series that I had and sold. Minolta produce a great and very luminous lenses with at same time great sharpness at all aperture.


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Denny Smith

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Re: Pocket 4K and Old Lenses

PostSun Sep 08, 2019 9:39 pm

I agree Carlo, I had used Minolta lenses on some of their film ca eras, very nice, and up there with Contax glass.

Randy, I also have been using my Zeiss ZF lenses, and tested my favorite, the 28mm f/2.0, it is also an excellent lens, nice IQ, not too (razor) sharp with an interesting perspective. Just for fun, I put my original BMPCC Speed Booster (0.58) with the camera set to HD window, and got some nice coverage, then I switched to UHD window, and the F 28mm covered the full UHD frame with the SB, this in theory should have some fall off, and there is a little, but not what I expected. In a 2.35:1 crop the image is very useable. I was thinking about the new Pocket 4K SB for the Zeiss ZF lenses, but now maybe not... :roll:
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Eugenia Loli

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Re: Pocket 4K and Old Lenses

PostSun Sep 08, 2019 10:14 pm

I have much glass through my husband's work, including Pentax 67 glass, old Nikon/Canons etc. However, I've decided to go Tokina. They have the best ranges for ultra-wide filmmaking for very cheap.

I usually read people buying Panasonic 35mm and 50mm for filmmaking and I'm asking myself why. These lenses are photographic lenses, meaning that are too sharp for filmmaking (film is supposed to be rather soft, with edge details enhanced in post/printing). Also, for traditional cinematic look, like Tarantino's or Sergio Leone's, you need ultra wides (and anamorphic, but that's far away from our budgets). Leone used the fastest lens he could afford, an 18mm (in modern APS-C equivalence). Tarantino uses 2x anamorphic 28mm, which makes it a 14mm in APS-C and ~11mm in MFT.

On top of that, in contrast to most people, I don't have a problem with zooms, as long as they have a constant aperture. I treat them as primes. Again, in the film times, sharp primes were important, because film was too soft. But digital sensors are so sharp, that we need less sharp lenses, so a low-contrast, modern constant aperture zoom is a very acceptable solution to my eyes.

So after looking at the market, I've found Tokina as the best bang for the buck. Here's what Tokina offers, using a dummy EF or Nikon adapter (I usually shoot wide open, with a variable ND filter in front):

- Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8 (best for MFT) - $260
- Tokina 14-20mm f/2.0 (best for APS-C, fastest lens in this list) - $500
- Tokina 11-20mm f/2.8 (best for both MFT/APS-C): $400
- Tokina 12-24mm f/4 (best for both, great range & cheapest, but slowest lens tho) - $160

And then, there's the Tokina 24-70mm f/2.8 ($600, eBay) for longer focal lengths when needed.

Then, depending which lens you chose from the 4-item list above, you get one of these primes for low light: Kamlan 21mm f/1.8 ($140), or 7Artisans 25mm f/1.8 ($70). And if you decided to not get the longer lens at all, you can go for a Kamlan 28mm f/1.4 ($150), or the 7Artisans 35mm f/1.2 ($130). And why not get a 50mm f/1.8 (for 50 bucks) just for a good measure?

So overall, you'd cover most focal lengths you need for action/genre filmmaking with 3-4 lenses, overall costing less than $1300 for the most expensive choices, and as cheap as $400 for the cheapest combination. No reason to ever buy another lens IMHO. Anything else is a waste of money in my book for narratives.

And forget speedboosters too. Waste of money, and they make the image soft in an ugly, blooming way if shooting wide open (uglier than usual soft lenses are). With the lenses I'm suggesting you don't need wider anyway. And if you're careful about your light, you don't need faster either.

The Tokina solution simply works for me.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Pocket 4K and Old Lenses

PostSun Sep 08, 2019 11:52 pm

Yes, Tokina offers some nice alternatives. I have a Duclos Cine mod. (glass cherry picked by Matt for Cine shooting) original 11-16PL Mount, which paired nicely on my S16 Cameras with the Elite 9.5. A nice looking soft 12mm Prime would be the new SLR Magic MicroPrime, which is soft looking wide open, and sharpens as you close it down, the edges remain softer than the middle. My Zeiss 28mm is this way, the edges are softer than the middle, which is sharp, in a cinematic sense, not razor still camera soft. You can also get a 18mm and 25mm in this series for MFT mounts. These are similar to the excellent Veydras, but less expensive, starting at $400-500, vs $900 for the Veydras.

Another classic Tokina Zoom, is the classic Tokina 28-70, f/2.6 original version, based on the Angenieux 28-70 Zoom, that was fairly parfocal, and has an excellent Cine IQ look to it. Tokina also made a ATX Pro 20-35 f/2.8, for some longer focal length range lenses. The Nikon version can be adapted to EF and these would work well on the new Pocket 6K.
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Kays Alatrakchi

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Re: Pocket 4K and Old Lenses

PostMon Sep 09, 2019 2:17 am

Dune00z wrote:Used a whole heap of Canon FD mount prime lenses. 20mm f2.8, 24 f2.8, 28 f2.8, 35 f2 (non radioactive), 50 f1.4, 85 f1.8, 135 f2.8. Had to do quite a bit of correction in post to remove magenta tint and had to be very careful of flaring with most of them, especially the 50mm. They worked OK, but I was never happy with shooting around some of the issues like softness in the left and right thirds of the frame under f4, flaring, loose mounts, etc.

I Got rid of them and now only use modern EF glass or m43 glass.


Interesting, I am actually currently building the same collection that you had. I'm happy with the look of the 24, 35 and 50 so far. Yeah, they have their quirks, but that's what I wanted them for. I wasn't looking for clinical perfection, but rather lenses with personality -- warts and all.
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Re: Pocket 4K and Old Lenses

PostMon Sep 09, 2019 4:44 am

Eugenia Loli wrote:And forget speedboosters too. Waste of money, and they make the image soft in an ugly, blooming way if shooting wide open (uglier than usual soft lenses are).

I use a Aputure DEC Lensregain EF to MFT focal reducer (.75x speedbooster) on my modified 1966 Soviet era 37mm Mir-1 anamorfake f/3.5 (fixed oval iris plate) lens. I find that it helps the image on these old lenses due to the 7 layers of anti-reflective coatings on each of its 4-element, 4-group optical elements.

I took some shots using a M39 to M42 adapter ring to a cheap M42 to MFT adapter. I could not see the focus peaking red lines under most circumstances on my BMPCC 4K with it since the simple purple coating from pre-1967 lenses gives it so little contrast.

I then used a M39x1 (old Zenit) lens to Canon EOS adapter to the Lensregain that I got on Ebay from rafcamera in Moscow. I have had problems with using a M39 to M42 ring and a Fotodiox M42 to EOS adapter and this one allows for infinity focus. I took pictures of the same parking garage in Downtown Berkeley.

Here are squeezed stills of the garage shot from a BMPCC 4K with a straight adapter at 1/60 sec. ISO 3200 on the Left and with the Lensregain adapter 1/30 sec. ISO 1250 on the Right. The color temperature, amount of vibrance, overall saturation and the amount of dehaze in post processing is identical.
1966Mir1AnamorNoFocL&LensregainR.jpg
Mir-1 anamorfake f/3.5 lens L & with a Lensregain adapter R
1966Mir1AnamorNoFocL&LensregainR.jpg (928.15 KiB) Viewed 6000 times

This lens likes to flare. Here are the same two pictures cropped to show how it handles the streetlight flare. The coma is a little stronger and the line is a little fatter on the Left without the Lensregain's coatings on the Right (through the leaves).
1966Mir1AnamorNoFocL&LensregainRFlr.jpg
Mir-1 anamorfake f/3.5 lens L & with a Lensregain adapter R
1966Mir1AnamorNoFocL&LensregainRFlr.jpg (707.03 KiB) Viewed 6000 times

Here is a close-up crop of the same two pictures to show how the Lensregain on the Right actually helped to sharpen the image. Both shots were focused at infinity.
1966Mir1AnamorNoFocL&LensregainRCU.jpg
Mir-1 anamorfake f/3.5 lens L & with a Lensregain adapter R
1966Mir1AnamorNoFocL&LensregainRCU.jpg (685.8 KiB) Viewed 6000 times
Last edited by dondidnod on Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:43 am, edited 7 times in total.
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rick.lang

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Re: Pocket 4K and Old Lenses

PostMon Sep 09, 2019 4:54 am

So can we conclude in your example that using a focal reducer improved the image sharpness and controller the flare or blooming better?

Lately several folks have said that the Metabones SpeedBooster is degrading their image or other folk’s images they’ve seen so they don’t recommend using the SpeedBooster which has left me confused as in theory the SpeedBooster should improve resolution.


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Re: Pocket 4K and Old Lenses

PostMon Sep 09, 2019 5:16 am

Yes, the image is more under control with it. I was able to see the colored lines of the focus assist much better as well due to the improved contrast.

Maybe the problems others are reporting depends on the coatings of their lenses interacting with the coatings on the Speedbooster. I am not sure if the Metabones Speedbooster has any coatings however.

In my case it gave my old lens (a 1954 design based on Carl Zeiss Jena Flektagon patents) a slightly more modern look.
Last edited by dondidnod on Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:15 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Pocket 4K and Old Lenses

PostMon Sep 09, 2019 5:33 am

Did a 25 day job this summer with G2 and P4k for a lot of gimbal shots.

All footage with an Ironglass russian set, fake anamorphic, no paint.
20, 37, 58, 85 and 135
Metabones 0,64 Cine adapter for all P4k shots
We are very pleased with the results from both cameras.

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Eugenia Loli

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Re: Pocket 4K and Old Lenses

PostMon Sep 09, 2019 9:17 am

Yes, the image is more under control with it.


It might help with very imprecise, flaring anamorphic old lenses. But that's not the same against a modern lens.
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Re: Pocket 4K and Old Lenses

PostMon Sep 09, 2019 1:33 pm

What about the Takumars? Recently got 2, the 50mm 1.4 and the 135mm 2.5 and Im absolutely in love with them. Thinking about letting my 18-35 to rest.
Though, I still have to do more shoots with it to be certain. So far, so awesome.

Oh, and Im using them with a Viltrox focal reducer. And its all pretty.
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Re: Pocket 4K and Old Lenses

PostMon Sep 09, 2019 8:12 pm

Denny Smith wrote: Another classic Tokina Zoom, is the classic Tokina 28-70, f/2.6 original version, based on the Angenieux 28-70 Zoom, that was fairly parfocal, and has an excellent Cine IQ look to it. Tokina also made a ATX Pro 20-35 f/2.8, for some longer focal length range lenses. The Nikon version can be adapted to EF and these would work well on the new Pocket 6K.
Cheers


+1 on the tok 28-70 2.6. By far my favourite lens and I picked it up for less than £200
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Re: Pocket 4K and Old Lenses

PostMon Sep 09, 2019 8:22 pm

Takumar 135mm 2.5
01.jpg
Takumar 135mm 2.5
01.jpg (701.96 KiB) Viewed 5843 times


Takumar 50mm 1.4
02.jpg
Takumar 50mm 1.4
02.jpg (713.52 KiB) Viewed 5843 times


All with Viltrox M2 MKII
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Re: Pocket 4K and Old Lenses

PostSun Sep 29, 2019 6:26 am

Nice shots. Is that the original 1.4? I use Pentax K mount glass on my OG Pocket....which I share with my K1000...since I use the cameras together all the time...which mount Viltrox?
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Re: Pocket 4K and Old Lenses

PostThu Sep 03, 2020 1:57 pm

Quick question. I just bought the Blackmagic pocket 4k and was going to try to use some old Olympus lenses that i have. I bought the cheap fotasy om-m4/3 adapter. It fits but i can't seem to focus manually at all with these. It is not an electric adapter. can i not use it? I'm new to the blackmagic so i wasn't sure if there was any settings or something.
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Re: Pocket 4K and Old Lenses

PostThu Sep 03, 2020 4:38 pm

It should work. I have no difficulties using Olympus OM lenses with a Fotodiox adapter.

So you say you don't see any change in focus while turning the helicoid?
Or is it blocked and doesn't turn at all?
Do you get focus if moving back and forth with the camera?
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crepko44

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Re: Pocket 4K and Old Lenses

PostThu Sep 03, 2020 4:43 pm

The focus ring does move fine. But doesn't seem to change the blur on the lens at all. I can move the camera closer to subject and can get it in focus. But I thought i should still be able to use the focus ring on my Olympus lens?
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Re: Pocket 4K and Old Lenses

PostFri Sep 04, 2020 1:43 pm

I can only assume that either the lens is damaged or the adapter is too long.
If you get something in focus by position of the camera, does turning the focus ring have any effect?
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Re: Pocket 4K and Old Lenses

PostFri Sep 04, 2020 4:32 pm

the focus ring appears to have no effect at all.
Let me explain further. I bought 2 adapters pictured below.

capture1
Capture1.PNG
Capture1.PNG (542.27 KiB) Viewed 1936 times
picture is an electronic 4/3 to m4/3 adapter for my olympus lenses. They come in focus but the focus ring does not change focus at all.

Capture 2 is a non-electronic for my nikon lenses. Focus also does not work at all or change the focus.

Capture2.PNG
Capture2.PNG (500.4 KiB) Viewed 1936 times
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Re: Pocket 4K and Old Lenses

PostSat Sep 05, 2020 3:51 am

These are not really ‘old’ lenses. They look like fly-by-wire lenses and will need functioning electronic connections. I was strictly referring to lenses with purely mechanical focus, like most others in this thread.
I’m afraid I can’t help you with your issue.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Pocket 4K and Old Lenses

PostSat Sep 05, 2020 5:13 am

No, the AF-P lenses are lenses that achieve fast and quiet AF with adoption of a stepping motor for AF drive operation. So they need an active lens mount to power the lens focus motor, they are not manually coupled or screwdriver focused lenses found on AF-S type lenses. So your adapter is just a mechanical lens adapter with no electrical connections between the lens and camera. Their are no electronic lens adapters made for Nikon to MF/3 that I am aware of. So an electronic coupled focus Nikkor lens is not going to have a working focus on a BMD MFT camera, unless that lens can be manually focused, like the old legacy Nikon AF/S lenses.
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Re: Pocket 4K and Old Lenses

PostMon Sep 07, 2020 2:18 pm

I often use on my P4K Nikkor F series 300 f4.0 IFED, 180mm f2.8 IFED and 85mm f2.0 lenses 50mm f2.0, all with a dumb Metabones adapter. All are excellent glass. Simple. All manual. With the 2x crop factor super telephoto look on the longer lenses. An affordable alternative if you can find them in good condition. Tripod required however. These lenses were made for film and have sufficient sharpness. Like all vintage glass they have their own look. For wider shots I use modern MFT lenses.
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