easydcp/kakadu add colors to black and white films

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Erwan Robert-Thomasson

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easydcp/kakadu add colors to black and white films

PostWed Nov 29, 2023 9:16 am

hello,
I have an issue with a dcp made with the easydcp plugin recently and the same issue appears, thou differently, with kakadu. the dcp export add colors to black and white films.
I made a test with a a ramp generated by davinci and you can see the result below:

original ramp scope in davinci:
Image
easydcp export, scope with no grade
Image
kakadu export, scope with no grade
Image

---

original ramp
Image
easydcp export with 4x saturation node
Image
kakadu export with 4x saturation node
Image

here is a 3s dcp made with easyDCP:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1sCKc6weoRUn9UM_Tz4ZcZ-6xomAN7Hh_?usp=sharing


I detected the issue because my client said his film was not totally black and white in theater and even had weird colored spot sometimes.

has anyone ever had this issue and is it possible to resolve it by maybe using a different color transform process?

google drive folder with the elements
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

davinci resolve 18.0.1

thanks,
erwan
Last edited by Erwan Robert-Thomasson on Thu Nov 30, 2023 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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franciscovaldez

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Re: easydcp/kakadu add colors to black and white films

PostThu Nov 30, 2023 12:41 am

here is a 3s dcp made with easyDCP:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing


This seems black and white to me.
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Marc Wielage

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Re: easydcp/kakadu add colors to black and white films

PostThu Nov 30, 2023 5:09 am

Unpopular opinion: we generally send out all our DCPs to a local service company, because we'd rather trust them to do it right than take the risks ourselves. All these companies do is DCPs, so they can get it done right the first time without any slip-ups. They use a fairly precise LUT to get the Rec709/2.4 image to P3 DCI 2.6, and it's "reasonably" close. (In a perfect world, you'd do a trim pass for the theatrical delivery.)

The fees being charged these days are anywhere from $3/min. to $5/min., and that to me is a small price to pay for the peace of mind. They can also provide a KDM to control where and when the DCP is played, and also make sure the color space is correct when projected.

The white point you choose will have an effect on your perception of B&W, so bear that in mind. I believe there is an option to request 6500°K for DCPs, but I'm not sure how widely that's supported.
marc wielage, csi • VP/color & workflow • chroma | hollywood
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Lucius Snow

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Re: easydcp/kakadu add colors to black and white films

PostThu Nov 30, 2023 9:19 am

The white point isn't always at 6300K in cinema?
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Erwan Robert-Thomasson

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Re: easydcp/kakadu add colors to black and white films

PostThu Nov 30, 2023 2:04 pm

Marc Wielage wrote:Unpopular opinion: we generally send out all our DCPs to a local service company, because we'd rather trust them to do it right than take the risks ourselves. All these companies do is DCPs, so they can get it done right the first time without any slip-ups. They use a fairly precise LUT to get the Rec709/2.4 image to P3 DCI 2.6, and it's "reasonably" close. (In a perfect world, you'd do a trim pass for the theatrical delivery.)

The fees being charged these days are anywhere from $3/min. to $5/min., and that to me is a small price to pay for the peace of mind. They can also provide a KDM to control where and when the DCP is played, and also make sure the color space is correct when projected.

this is an indie production and the client will have to do with whatever I can output. a solution might be to add a slight tint to the black and white part...
and this is not a white point issue, it's not obvious here but I got as much green as magenta on the film DCP.


thanks for your answers!
Last edited by Erwan Robert-Thomasson on Thu Nov 30, 2023 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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waltervolpatto

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Re: easydcp/kakadu add colors to black and white films

PostThu Nov 30, 2023 2:52 pm

I cannot see the images....
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Erwan Robert-Thomasson

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Re: easydcp/kakadu add colors to black and white films

PostThu Nov 30, 2023 3:10 pm

waltervolpatto wrote:I cannot see the images....

here is a link to the google drive folder:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing
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waltervolpatto

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Re: easydcp/kakadu add colors to black and white films

PostThu Nov 30, 2023 9:30 pm

Interesting…. That almost look like a low density LUT applied somewhere in the process chain…

How do you go from your master color space to XYZ?
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Erwan Robert-Thomasson

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Re: easydcp/kakadu add colors to black and white films

PostThu Nov 30, 2023 9:44 pm

waltervolpatto wrote:Interesting…. That almost look like a low density LUT applied somewhere in the process chain…

How do you go from your master color space to XYZ?


export and timeline are in rec 709, easydcp does the rest. I've never spotted issue with colour films before.
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Lucius Snow

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Re: easydcp/kakadu add colors to black and white films

PostThu Nov 30, 2023 9:57 pm

Erwan Robert-Thomasson wrote:
waltervolpatto wrote:Interesting…. That almost look like a low density LUT applied somewhere in the process chain…

How do you go from your master color space to XYZ?


export and timeline are in rec 709, easydcp does the rest. I've never spotted issue with colour films before.

Which Rec.709? Which color management?
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Erwan Robert-Thomasson

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Re: easydcp/kakadu add colors to black and white films

PostThu Nov 30, 2023 10:09 pm

Lucius Snow wrote:
Erwan Robert-Thomasson wrote:
waltervolpatto wrote:Interesting…. That almost look like a low density LUT applied somewhere in the process chain…

How do you go from your master color space to XYZ?


export and timeline are in rec 709, easydcp does the rest. I've never spotted issue with colour films before.

Which Rec.709? Which color management?


davinci YRGB, gamma 2.4

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