Does timeline resolution affect delivery quality?

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natzky

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Does timeline resolution affect delivery quality?

PostWed Nov 29, 2023 11:08 pm

Hi, the original resolution I have is 6k, then, just for work, I have the timeline resolution set to 2k. Of course I have some zoomed clips on edit tab (but the zoom doesn't go below 4k DCI)

The delivery resolution I want is 4k DCI with the best quality I can achieve. Do I have to set the timeline resolution to 4k DCI or 6k to have the best quality in 4k dci on delivery? (I'm not talking about render resolution here) Or the timeline resolution does not affect the delivery quality?

Thanks!!
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roger.magnusson

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Re: Does timeline resolution affect delivery quality?

PostThu Nov 30, 2023 12:11 am

Yes, the timeline decides the resolution. If the render resolution is set higher it will upscale from the timeline resolution, not from the media resolution.

You can edit in a 2K timeline resolution and then switch it to 4K before rendering. But beware that if you create any fusion clips while in 2K they will stay 2K even if you change the timeline resolution.
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natzky

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Re: Does timeline resolution affect delivery quality?

PostThu Nov 30, 2023 12:34 am

Thanks, but I'm not interested in the quality of the rendering while I'm working in this question, I'm interested in the quality of the final result, the output, the delivery.
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CougerJoe

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Re: Does timeline resolution affect delivery quality?

PostThu Nov 30, 2023 1:07 am

natzky wrote:Thanks, but I'm not interested in the quality of the rendering while I'm working in this question, I'm interested in the quality of the final result, the output, the delivery.


If you do that Resolve tells you you're doing something wrong

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roger.magnusson

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Re: Does timeline resolution affect delivery quality?

PostThu Nov 30, 2023 1:14 am

natzky wrote:Thanks, but I'm not interested in the quality of the rendering while I'm working in this question, I'm interested in the quality of the final result, the output, the delivery.

Yes, that's what I meant as well. When rendering on the Deliver page, the timeline decides the resolution (unless you render individual clips, in which case you can choose to render at the original media resolution).
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natzky

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Re: Does timeline resolution affect delivery quality?

PostThu Nov 30, 2023 1:16 am

I have no issue If a set a timeline to 2k and a output (delivery) to 4k dci, with original 6k resolution, just I wonder if setting the timeline resolution to 2k affect the output (the final result, the delivery) quality
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roger.magnusson

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Re: Does timeline resolution affect delivery quality?

PostThu Nov 30, 2023 1:20 am

Yes. Perhaps I didn't explain it clearly, but yes. If you have 6K clips on a 2K timeline, rendering on the Deliver page as 4K will have a negative effect on the output quality. When you do that, you should be seeing the warning that CougerJoe showed in his screenshot. You will get an upscale from 2K to 4K.
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natzky

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Re: Does timeline resolution affect delivery quality?

PostThu Nov 30, 2023 1:50 am

I don't get any warning.

So, the timeline resolution is not just for work, it affects the quality of delivery? If I set the timeline resolution to 6k, the clips I previously worked on a 2k timeline resolution will be affected by the new timeline resolution (if I delivery them again) or I will destroy the quality of edited clips when setting the timeline resolution to 2k?


I emphasize that I do not get any warnings. I guess it doesn't happen to me because the original resolution of my clips is 6k, which makes me doubt if the resolution of the timeline really affects the output quality (delivery resolution set to 4k DCI).
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CougerJoe

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Re: Does timeline resolution affect delivery quality?

PostThu Nov 30, 2023 3:05 am

natzky wrote:
I emphasize that I do not get any warnings. I guess it doesn't happen to me because the original resolution of my clips is 6k, which makes me doubt if the resolution of the timeline really affects the output quality (delivery resolution set to 4k DCI).


Here's an extreme version of what you're describing, 4K clip, 360P and 1440P timeline, encoded to 1440P

360P Timeline


1440P Timeline
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natzky

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Re: Does timeline resolution affect delivery quality?

PostThu Nov 30, 2023 8:24 pm

Thanks!! Perfect, totally clear!!
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Mike Manus

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Re: Does timeline resolution affect delivery quality?

PostThu Nov 30, 2023 11:01 pm

I'd suggest setting your timeline at 4k or even 6k from the beginning and setting your output scaling to 2k.
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natzky

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Re: Does timeline resolution affect delivery quality?

PostFri Dec 01, 2023 12:32 am

If I update the resolution of the timeline to 6k, will I recover the quality when delivering (set to 4k dci)?
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Peter Cave

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Re: Does timeline resolution affect delivery quality?

PostFri Dec 01, 2023 6:39 am

natzky wrote:If I update the resolution of the timeline to 6k, will I recover the quality when delivering (set to 4k dci)?


The best option is usually to set the timeline to the delivery resolution.
All sources are scaled to the output resolution as set in project preferences, or individual timeline settings.

Scaling up will always compromise the resolution but scaling down will not.
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Marc Wielage

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Re: Does timeline resolution affect delivery quality?

PostFri Dec 01, 2023 8:56 am

Peter Cave wrote:The best option is usually to set the timeline to the delivery resolution. All sources are scaled to the output resolution as set in project preferences, or individual timeline settings. Scaling up will always compromise the resolution but scaling down will not.

It's very rare I'd disagree with Peter, but this is one of those cases. Even when delivering HD from 4K material, we'd rather have the timeline in 4K, and then choose an HD render on the Deliver page. The reason why is if there's a blow-up, it looks better done in 4K and then down-rezzed to HD. If you use the output resolution as the Timeline setting, then you wind up with a blow-up done at HD rez, which can look like crap.

I found that out very painfully about 7-8 years on a project, when several big blow-ups started looking awful. But I caught it before the client ever saw it and had the time to re-render and fix it. I later confirmed with Alexis Van Hurkman (who wrote the Resolve manual for several years) that yes, you have to set the timeline resolution to the clip resolution. This is mentioned a few times in the manual, but you have to look for it. At least now, there's a warning if you're in a situation where you're doing a 4K render from 4K material, but have the timeline set for HD. If there's absolutely no blow-ups in the project, though, you might be OK.

Ideally, if I had enough time and a powerful enough machine, I'd even set it to 6K for projects shot in 6K and delivered in 4K or HD. But... there's not a huge amount of difference between a 4K timeline and a 6K timeline, so I generally let that go. Maybe with a VFX shot, I might go full res if the VFX people are cool with that.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Does timeline resolution affect delivery quality?

PostFri Dec 01, 2023 9:52 am

Another case is NR. For the absolute best noise reduction, it's better to use the original resolution (if your machine can handle it). Of course, this makes sense only for really good sources, which only suffer from fine-grained noise. Any heavy compression will have the noise clumped together and you won't see a difference.
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natzky

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Re: Does timeline resolution affect delivery quality?

PostFri Dec 01, 2023 1:36 pm

Thanks! I still have the following doubt, if I was working with the timeline in 2k, that is, when I made the delivery in 4k, I lost quality, if I make the delivery again with the timeline in 6k (just setting to 6k but without touch the previous work), Do I recover the quality I lost?
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Steve Alexander

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Re: Does timeline resolution affect delivery quality?

PostFri Dec 01, 2023 1:57 pm

Very much depends on whether your were using Fusion effects/clips.

Add - although I'm not 100% sure how Fusion adapts to an increased timeline resolution after first creating it - it does seem to scale some things correctly but if memory serves, some things not so much.
Last edited by Steve Alexander on Fri Dec 01, 2023 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jim Simon

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Re: Does timeline resolution affect delivery quality?

PostFri Dec 01, 2023 2:08 pm

My practice and advice is to work in a timeline matching the highest quality needed for delivery.

In your case, work in a 4K DCI timeline.

(Use other methods to improve performance.)
Last edited by Jim Simon on Fri Dec 01, 2023 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Steve Alexander

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Re: Does timeline resolution affect delivery quality?

PostFri Dec 01, 2023 2:19 pm

To the OP - try it with a sample of your project. If you are delivering Full HD and you shoot in 4K or UHD then depending on what your are doing and how you are scaling the footage, you may find that an HD timeline is fine (if performance is an issue). It's also not unusual to use UHD footage with center, no crop in a Full HD timeline simply to use the UHD footage to recompose without any loss of resolution. Just an example of why answering your question outright is not so straightforward.
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dahya.mistry

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Re: Does timeline resolution affect delivery quality?

PostFri Dec 01, 2023 5:28 pm

In the latest reference manual, the chapter entitled Image Sizing and Resolution Independence is a very good read for this topic, and refers to resolution independence etc.
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natzky

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Re: Does timeline resolution affect delivery quality?

PostFri Dec 01, 2023 5:33 pm

Just thinking in clips that i don't use fusion, if I make the delivery again with the timeline in 6k (just setting to 6k but without touch the previous work), Do I recover the quality I lost? (I read that the resolution is independent but it is not clear to me how it works on quality)
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Tom Early

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Re: Does timeline resolution affect delivery quality?

PostFri Dec 01, 2023 6:39 pm

natzky wrote:Just thinking in clips that i don't use fusion, if I make the delivery again with the timeline in 6k (just setting to 6k but without touch the previous work), Do I recover the quality I lost? (I read that the resolution is independent but it is not clear to me how it works on quality)


Yes. There are caveats when grading using different aspect ratios and using power windows but I'm just going to assume that your timeline aspect ratios match.
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natzky

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Re: Does timeline resolution affect delivery quality?

PostSun Dec 03, 2023 12:23 pm

Thank you all!!

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