Excruciatingly Slow

Get answers to your questions about color grading, editing and finishing with DaVinci Resolve.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

triplescience

  • Posts: 12
  • Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2024 12:06 pm
  • Real Name: Samy Bukowski

Excruciatingly Slow

PostSat Apr 06, 2024 12:14 pm

I honestly cannot believe I paid 289 British pounds for this software. It is ABSURDLY SLOW. I tried using a proxy resolution but it is 5 times as slow as rendering in full... I have tried all the youtube hacks like smart cache etc. Clearly I don't fully appreciate the intricate working cogs behind something like this because I simply cannot fathom how a piece of software that I'm just asking to play a couple of video clips on top of one another can be this slow?

The Unity engine can render an entire game in 4k and I can scrub the timeline effortlessly. Why is DR so brutally slow? I saw some bug report about prores encoded video proxies being slower than full res but tbh I just bought this to edit some simple clips so I don't really feel like I should have to start sifting through solutions to bug reports. Is this NORMAL for video editing software? It takes at least 60 seconds for a video transition to fully apply. And the timeline is frozen until that happens. How can anyone be expected to work like this?
Offline

Jim Simon

  • Posts: 30940
  • Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:47 am

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostMon Apr 08, 2024 8:56 pm

List out your hardware and media specs.
My Biases:

You NEED training.
You NEED a desktop.
You NEED a calibrated (non-computer) display.
Offline
User avatar

Tony359

  • Posts: 280
  • Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:50 pm
  • Location: United Kingdom
  • Real Name: Antonio Marcheselli

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostMon Apr 08, 2024 9:24 pm

"for a video transition to apply" - what do you mean with that? I drag the effect and it doesn't take any time to drop on the timeline - playing it is a different story, my system cannot play it smoothly straight away but if you give Resolve a few seconds, it will cache it in the background.

What resolution are you using, what files, how many tracks and - as mentioned - what HW are you using.

A DRA (a full backup of a small project to test) would also help.

As you put it, it's just a big rant I'm afraid :)
DaVinci Resolve Studio 18.6.6
Ryzen 5700X - 32GB RAM - 1.5TB Sata SSD - RTX 3070 8GB
Windows 10 22H2
Offline
User avatar

carsonjones

  • Posts: 136
  • Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:17 pm
  • Location: Toronto, Canada
  • Real Name: Carson Jones

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostMon Apr 08, 2024 11:43 pm

Resolve is fantastic and smooth depending on your hardware. List your hardware specs as others have said and there's a good chance everyone will help out in finding where your bottleneck is.
Offline
User avatar

Uli Plank

  • Posts: 22200
  • Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:48 am
  • Location: Germany and Indonesia

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostTue Apr 09, 2024 1:37 am

If DR is slow, it’s the hardware that doesn’t suffice.
Now that the cat #19 is out of the bag, test it as much as you can and use the subforum.

Studio 18.6.6, MacOS 13.6.7, 2017 iMac, 32 GB, Radeon Pro 580
MacBook M1 Pro, 16 GPU cores, 32 GB RAM
Sonoma 14.5 with 19b3 (sandbox)
SE, UltraStudio Monitor G3
Offline
User avatar

Marc Wielage

  • Posts: 11222
  • Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:46 am
  • Location: Hollywood, USA

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostTue Apr 09, 2024 8:41 am

triplescience wrote:I honestly cannot believe I paid 289 British pounds for this software. It is ABSURDLY SLOW. I tried using a proxy resolution but it is 5 times as slow as rendering in full... I have tried all the youtube hacks like smart cache etc. Clearly I don't fully appreciate the intricate working cogs behind something like this because I simply cannot fathom how a piece of software that I'm just asking to play a couple of video clips on top of one another can be this slow?

Resolve can move lightning fast if you have the right workflow and fast hardware.

Resolve speed is almost always dependent on system power (CPU, RAM, GPU), I/O speed (drive speed, formatting, and connection), and choice of source material codec. Drivers and OS can of course have an effect as well, as can timeline settings, timeline length, resolution, FPS speed, render cache, and so on. External RAIDs with fast connections will yield better performance most of the time, as can SSDs. Slowdowns can also occur due to highly-compressed codecs (like H.264/H.265), high frame rates, Fusion compositions, Magic Masks, OFX plug-ins, noise-reduction, or Optical Flow speed-changes that stress systems resources.

Jason Bowdach has more to say about Resolve performance in this article:

https://blog.frame.io/2020/02/24/davinc ... rformance/
Certified DaVinci Resolve Color Trainer • AdvancedColorTraining.com
Offline

Vilas422

  • Posts: 22
  • Joined: Thu May 23, 2019 11:52 am
  • Real Name: Vilmantas Krisciunas

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostTue Apr 09, 2024 9:21 am

I have R9 3900X 12C/24T, RX 7800 XT (16GB VRAM), 32 Gigs DDR5 RAM, Resolve is on SSD while my footage is on HDD , and i mostly work in 1080p proxys which are done on BM Proxy generator. And yes, somehow on my system i have these weird ui lags, footage lags, and ect. and i just don't understand.
Offline
User avatar

Uli Plank

  • Posts: 22200
  • Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:48 am
  • Location: Germany and Indonesia

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostTue Apr 09, 2024 9:50 am

What happens if you convert your sources to a codec like ProRes with a tool like Shutter Encoder for a try?
Now that the cat #19 is out of the bag, test it as much as you can and use the subforum.

Studio 18.6.6, MacOS 13.6.7, 2017 iMac, 32 GB, Radeon Pro 580
MacBook M1 Pro, 16 GPU cores, 32 GB RAM
Sonoma 14.5 with 19b3 (sandbox)
SE, UltraStudio Monitor G3
Offline

Frank Engel

  • Posts: 933
  • Joined: Thu May 17, 2018 11:09 pm
  • Real Name: Frank Engel

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostTue Apr 09, 2024 10:59 am

Resolve does not strike me as particularly slow as long as you can throw enough hardware at it, but it is definitely much more demanding on the hardware than are various other applications, and it certainly has never impressed me as being particularly fast.

In particular, for reasonably simple projects that could be done in either one, I usually gravitate more toward Final Cut Pro X because for many such projects I find it to be much faster to work with than Resolve is on the same hardware, until you start getting into more complex requirements or wanting better results from color grading, etc.


What format are the proxies in that are being generated?

If it is one of the H.264 / H.265 formats, check for the specific compression type. These codecs are not directly good for editing due to the complexity involved in decoding them, unless there is hardware-level support for the decoding. Different video hardware supports different combinations, but both AMD and Nvidia tend to support decoding only a small subset of these formats natively, so if your proxies are in a different format you are creating more work for the editor and the results can seems slightly random depending on how far a frame is from an I-Frame:

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/artic ... udio-2122/


ProRes decoding will be easier on the editor for purposes of the CPU / GPU, but such footage tends to be larger and will be more demanding on storage bandwidth. If you are storing the proxies on a single hard drive (rather than a RAID array which has more bandwidth) you may run into problems with I/O throughput if attempting to play back multiple streams at once unless you stick with the lower quality versions of ProRes.
Offline

triplescience

  • Posts: 12
  • Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2024 12:06 pm
  • Real Name: Samy Bukowski

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostWed Apr 10, 2024 1:38 pm

Hello everyone thank you for all the replies and help. Also sorry for the irate tone to my initial post I was partially rage posting and extremely frustrated.

Resolve does not strike me as particularly slow as long as you can throw enough hardware at it, but it is definitely much more demanding on the hardware than are various other applications, and it certainly has never impressed me as being particularly fast.


Thank you for essentially articulating what is my underlying point. I don't dispute that resolve can be fast with enough hardware power but it feels ...disproportionate... I fully accept that this may be down to not only my own misconceptions but also my unfamiliarity with the right codec/proxy settings.

My hardware is certainly not top of the range by today's standards but I just never expected to need a hadron collider to put together a game trailer:

Intel(R) Core i7-7700K CPU @ 4.20GHz, RAM: 16 GB / Storage: 512 GB SSD, Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080Ti. I know this PC is not even close to being new but this is the first program that has made my gaming PC feel like dial-up broadband. Resolve and my media both sit on an expanded SSD. Do I just need a new PC?

Also thank you for all the information about the optimal proxies I will look into that and try to optimise.
Offline

triplescience

  • Posts: 12
  • Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2024 12:06 pm
  • Real Name: Samy Bukowski

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostWed Apr 10, 2024 1:58 pm

I might add that my timeline is 60fps and about 2 minutes long. I have about 4 audio tracks but only 1 is playing continuously, and 3 video tracks but again only one main one. My media is mixed and some of it is OBS footage I've screen recorded in 1080p and some is Apple ProRes 422 HQ direct renders from my unity game. Apologies if I'm missing some technical detail this really isn't my area of expertise (codecs etc).
Offline
User avatar

Uli Plank

  • Posts: 22200
  • Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:48 am
  • Location: Germany and Indonesia

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostWed Apr 10, 2024 10:25 pm

Check if any of your clips has variable frame rates with a tool like MediaInfo.
If so, there’s your culprit.
Now that the cat #19 is out of the bag, test it as much as you can and use the subforum.

Studio 18.6.6, MacOS 13.6.7, 2017 iMac, 32 GB, Radeon Pro 580
MacBook M1 Pro, 16 GPU cores, 32 GB RAM
Sonoma 14.5 with 19b3 (sandbox)
SE, UltraStudio Monitor G3
Offline
User avatar

Tony359

  • Posts: 280
  • Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:50 pm
  • Location: United Kingdom
  • Real Name: Antonio Marcheselli

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostWed Apr 10, 2024 10:31 pm

it's still not clear to me what the real issue is.

60 seconds for a video transition to apply: what does that mean?

your system is "average" - but should be more than capable to put together a single track video. Effects will never play in real time though unless you cache first and/or reduce resolution.

And Resolve will eat up your 512GB in no time - I assume that after the OS and some games you don't have much left?

What is an "expanded" SSD?
DaVinci Resolve Studio 18.6.6
Ryzen 5700X - 32GB RAM - 1.5TB Sata SSD - RTX 3070 8GB
Windows 10 22H2
Offline

Vilas422

  • Posts: 22
  • Joined: Thu May 23, 2019 11:52 am
  • Real Name: Vilmantas Krisciunas

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostThu Apr 11, 2024 12:28 pm

Uli Plank wrote:What happens if you convert your sources to a codec like ProRes with a tool like Shutter Encoder for a try?


I mean, yeah okay, i might try that, but encoding outside of Resolve seems too much work, when i has the tools to makes proxys inside the resolve it self, (somehow not in proxy generator?? And my system is more than capable of dealing either with h264 or h265, but why is the UI itself is lagging hardly? And its only 1080p timeline, with no hard effects or anything, it's fairly simple project. Example i just made.
Version: 18.6.5 (18.6.6 is more slower)
Last edited by Vilas422 on Thu Apr 11, 2024 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Offline

triplescience

  • Posts: 12
  • Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2024 12:06 pm
  • Real Name: Samy Bukowski

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostThu Apr 11, 2024 12:42 pm

Tony359 wrote:60 seconds for a video transition to apply: what does that mean?


Not sure why this is unclear: I have two clips, I drag a transition onto them like cross dissolve or whatever, it takes at least a minute for the smart cache to turn from red to blue and give me some semblance of smooth play. Otherwise it just freezes at the point of the transition.

What is an "expanded" SSD?


I added an 870 2TB samsung SSD to an expansion slot on my PC.

Vilas422 wrote:I mean, yeah okay, i might try that, but encoding outside of Resolve seems too much work, when i has the tools to makes proxys inside the resolve it self


Totally totally agree. It's very surprising that I'm having to undertake any optimisation techniques at all.
Offline

triplescience

  • Posts: 12
  • Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2024 12:06 pm
  • Real Name: Samy Bukowski

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostThu Apr 11, 2024 1:04 pm

Uli Plank wrote:Check if any of your clips has variable frame rates with a tool like MediaInfo.
If so, there’s your culprit.


Bud I think you're 100% right here. Because even during playback when two clips of different sources combine I get lag. It pretty much never plays smoothly. So is this a general limitation?
Offline
User avatar

Uli Plank

  • Posts: 22200
  • Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:48 am
  • Location: Germany and Indonesia

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostThu Apr 11, 2024 1:42 pm

Yes. Most professional NLEs will struggle with that. They are all based on stable timecode.
More primitive software can handle that better.
But did you check it or are we still speculating?
Last edited by Uli Plank on Thu Apr 11, 2024 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Now that the cat #19 is out of the bag, test it as much as you can and use the subforum.

Studio 18.6.6, MacOS 13.6.7, 2017 iMac, 32 GB, Radeon Pro 580
MacBook M1 Pro, 16 GPU cores, 32 GB RAM
Sonoma 14.5 with 19b3 (sandbox)
SE, UltraStudio Monitor G3
Offline

triplescience

  • Posts: 12
  • Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2024 12:06 pm
  • Real Name: Samy Bukowski

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostThu Apr 11, 2024 1:46 pm

Thank you, appreciate it!
Offline

Jim Simon

  • Posts: 30940
  • Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:47 am

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostThu Apr 11, 2024 3:34 pm

triplescience wrote:Do I just need a new PC?
It wouldn't hurt.

Some other options are new media. For any kind of screen capture, such as games, use a hardware recorder. The files they produce are meant for editing.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... ideoassist

Another option is a new editor. Resolve is designed for broadcast/cinema. Many consumer-level NLE's are better at handling consumer-level media.
My Biases:

You NEED training.
You NEED a desktop.
You NEED a calibrated (non-computer) display.
Offline
User avatar

Tony359

  • Posts: 280
  • Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:50 pm
  • Location: United Kingdom
  • Real Name: Antonio Marcheselli

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostThu Apr 11, 2024 5:41 pm

triplescience wrote:Not sure why this is unclear: I have two clips, I drag a transition onto them like cross dissolve or whatever, it takes at least a minute for the smart cache to turn from red to blue and give me some semblance of smooth play. Otherwise it just freezes at the point of the transition.



Well, I don't call it that way. But if you discuss on a forum you need to be prepared to explain things to others :)

I don't use cache at all - the transitions somehow "cache" anyways (though I don't see the red/blue line) after a few seconds.

60 seconds to "render" or "cache" a complex transition might actually be ok on an intel gen 7 with a 1080ti? Remember that caching only happens when the system is idle - there is a delay you can set in the preferences somewhere. So if you keep playing for example, caching will pause.

But general timeline playback must be smooth anyways.

What is an "expanded" SSD?

I added an 870 2TB samsung SSD to an expansion slot on my PC.


I was asking as your list of specs mentioned a 512GB only. "expansion slot": what type of SSD is that? Is that SATA or M.2? I'm asking as if M.2 nVme you might want to make sure you have enough PCI Express lanes to run it at full speed. I doubt that's the problem but on my motherboard for example I cannot add the second SSD because I have already a RAID card in one of the slots.

In short: test your SSD speeds with CrystalDiskMark
DaVinci Resolve Studio 18.6.6
Ryzen 5700X - 32GB RAM - 1.5TB Sata SSD - RTX 3070 8GB
Windows 10 22H2
Offline
User avatar

joema4

  • Posts: 180
  • Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:26 pm
  • Real Name: Joe Marler

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostThu Apr 11, 2024 6:25 pm

triplescience wrote:...My hardware is certainly not top of the range by today's standards but I just never expected to need a hadron collider to put together a game trailer:

Intel(R) Core i7-7700K CPU @ 4.20GHz, RAM: 16 GB / Storage: 512 GB SSD, Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080Ti. I know this PC is not even close to being new but this is the first program that has made my gaming PC feel like dial-up broadband. Resolve and my media both sit on an expanded SSD. Do I just need a new PC?...


Your CPU is a four-core 7th generation (Kaby Lake), released in 2017 (seven years old). Relative to a current 14th-generation Intel CPU of about that same product position, your CPU has roughly 1/2 the single-core performance, and 1/4 of the multi-core performance.

Your GPU is also a 2017 design, Pascal generation. It is probably roughly 1/4 the performance of a current design.

That said, I have a 2017 iMac 27 with the same i7-7700K CPU and a Radeon Pro 580 GPU with 8GB VRAM, and running Resolve Studio it can still do basic things. So normally I'd think your machine could edit a two-minute video. The OBS codec is very difficult, but it's only 1080p. If your other material is ProRes 422, that should be smooth to edit.

If you have applied retiming, optical flow, or video noise reduction, those can be slow on an older machine. If your machine is short on disk space, that can cause exponential performance degradation. Resolve is constantly creating render cache files.

It wouldn't hurt to run the Blackmagic Disk Test on each of your hard drives, then run the free version of GeekBench for both CPU and GPU and post all the numbers.
Offline

4EvrYng

  • Posts: 670
  • Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2022 12:45 am
  • Warnings: 1
  • Real Name: Alexander Dali

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostThu Apr 11, 2024 7:02 pm

triplescience wrote:Not sure why this is unclear: I have two clips, I drag a transition onto them like cross dissolve or whatever, it takes at least a minute for the smart cache to turn from red to blue and give me some semblance of smooth play. Otherwise it just freezes at the point of the transition.

What are your cache settings (codec and resolution)? Also, have you looked at Task Manager while transition is being applied to see where exactly your bottleneck is? You have only 16GB of memory, you could be swapping your memory to disk into oblivion, even fastest SSD can't help with that. You are using ProRes (at least as a source), which is very CPU intensive. If you don't look at Task Manager to get exact answer it is next to impossible to help you, all people can do is throw guesses.
Offline

Peter Chamberlain

Blackmagic Design

  • Posts: 14064
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:08 am

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostFri Apr 12, 2024 7:10 am

When the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080Ti was released people were working in UHD at 24fps with a codec that didn’t require special decoding.

With h264/265 OSB at UHD 60p, that’s a lot more data and difficulty to decode. That and the old CPU supports the the need for pre processing the source images to a better codec for fast decoding, using cache, a lower resolution timeline or a combination of the above.
DaVinci Resolve Product Manager
Offline

Nick2021

  • Posts: 782
  • Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 3:19 am
  • Real Name: Nick Zentena

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostFri Apr 12, 2024 8:36 am

Tony359 wrote:
What is an "expanded" SSD?

I added an 870 2TB samsung SSD to an expansion slot on my PC.


I was asking as your list of specs mentioned a 512GB only. "expansion slot": what type of SSD is that? Is that SATA or M.2?



An 870 would be SATA. His machine is too old for NVME. I guess he could add a PCIE card.
Offline
User avatar

Uli Plank

  • Posts: 22200
  • Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:48 am
  • Location: Germany and Indonesia

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostFri Apr 12, 2024 8:41 am

Before doing such guesswork about storage media, we should know much more about his source media.
If they are hard to decode or in variable frame rate, speed of any modern storage is not the issue. If they are not VFR, I'd suggest a more modern machine instead of trying to invest in the old one.
I can do a cross dissolve with UHD 50 fps HEVC clips in a UHD timeline in realtime on a laptop. No caching, no proxies, no cache. Just original media. I have no doubt it would do 60 fps as well.

@Samy
If you'd put too short clips of your typical media on a cloud service, I can try them for you.
Now that the cat #19 is out of the bag, test it as much as you can and use the subforum.

Studio 18.6.6, MacOS 13.6.7, 2017 iMac, 32 GB, Radeon Pro 580
MacBook M1 Pro, 16 GPU cores, 32 GB RAM
Sonoma 14.5 with 19b3 (sandbox)
SE, UltraStudio Monitor G3
Offline

Nick2021

  • Posts: 782
  • Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 3:19 am
  • Real Name: Nick Zentena

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostFri Apr 12, 2024 8:49 am

No guessing an 870 is SATA. There is one to my right :lol: But ya it should be fast enough for anything including 8K HEVC.
Offline
User avatar

Uli Plank

  • Posts: 22200
  • Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:48 am
  • Location: Germany and Indonesia

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostFri Apr 12, 2024 8:56 am

I was referring to guesswork about the bottlenecks in Samy's system. When Peter Chamberlain wrote "a lot more data", he was probably referring to UHD and not storage throughput.
In general, modern source formats need modern computer hardware. Or transcoding.
Now that the cat #19 is out of the bag, test it as much as you can and use the subforum.

Studio 18.6.6, MacOS 13.6.7, 2017 iMac, 32 GB, Radeon Pro 580
MacBook M1 Pro, 16 GPU cores, 32 GB RAM
Sonoma 14.5 with 19b3 (sandbox)
SE, UltraStudio Monitor G3
Offline

triplescience

  • Posts: 12
  • Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2024 12:06 pm
  • Real Name: Samy Bukowski

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostFri Apr 12, 2024 9:19 pm

Hello gents, my apologies I wasn't getting notifications for this thread - thank you all again for replying and trying to help me.

Below is a short clip of my editing experience. You can see everything is smart cached but this part of my timeline just never plays smoothly. At the end I also add a new cross dissolve:


Uli is correct that it's probably from all the crossing over from different media types I have. In this small section I play an mp4 (my obs recording) to an mov (my prores recording) back to the mp4 and it never switches smoothly. I have performed the mediainfo analysis of the clips as suggested and although obviously the clips are different sources they do have the same 60fps. Below are the results:
mov clip.JPG
mov clip.JPG (39.49 KiB) Viewed 1599 times

obs mp4 clip.JPG
obs mp4 clip.JPG (32.71 KiB) Viewed 1599 times


Nick2021 wrote:An 870 would be SATA. His machine is too old for NVME. I guess he could add a PCIE card.

Correct *cries*

4EvrYng wrote:What are your cache settings (codec and resolution)?

Attached:
cache settings.JPG
cache settings.JPG (26.51 KiB) Viewed 1599 times


4EvrYng wrote:Also, have you looked at Task Manager while transition is being applied to see where exactly your bottleneck is? You have only 16GB of memory, you could be swapping your memory to disk into oblivion, even fastest SSD can't help with that. You are using ProRes (at least as a source), which is very CPU intensive. If you don't look at Task Manager to get exact answer it is next to impossible to help you, all people can do is throw guesses.


Although I'm afraid I don't quite understand the point of looking at the task manager when applying a transition (are you saying just check whether the GPU or CPU gets usage blocked?), I suppose it sounds like I have a CPU bottleneck anyway given my timeline doesnt play smoothly even after everything is cached.

I also disagree with the sentiment that these thrown guesses haven't been useful. I fully concede that it's been a slow agonising walk to get you the info needed to perform a true assessment (and I'm sorry for that) but the original problem statement from my side was why is my DR running so insanely slowly and I pretty much got answers right on the money initially that DR is quite demanding/not particularly expeditious and I need to check my hardware and optimisation is a necessary part of the workflow.

I think it is fair that we have established that my hardware is nowhere near capable to parse the type of media I have. Yes my PC is about 6 years old and yes tech moves fast and moore's law etc but I still don't think 6 years is that old. OK, I don't expect to play raytraced cyberpunk at 8k but this PC has done everything I have ever asked of it to this point including play 60gb modern steam games. The comparisons quoted to the very newest models are still slightly ad absurdium to me - I (didn't) think I should (have had to) get a brand new PC right this instant with a 14th gen processor and a 4090 to put a DR timeline clip together. I know that's not exactly what's being said but you get my point here. This goes some way to explaining the original disconnect to me.

Now, having said all of that, clearly I was mostly wrong, and you do pretty much need very modern hardware to do what I'm trying to do. I still feel like there's too much onus on the user to do the codec/proxy optimisation and I would have expected DR to just handle it but again I'm probably not understanding the technical limitations. Anyway, despite the hardware requriements feeling disproportionate, your answers and this thread have gone some way to enlightening me about my misconceptions. And I thank you for all your patience in explaining this to me. Below are all the benchmarks asked for as well. Given all this additional info, I'd ask if you wouldnt mind taking a look and seeing if the consensus is still accurate. Cheers.
Last edited by triplescience on Fri Apr 12, 2024 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Offline

triplescience

  • Posts: 12
  • Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2024 12:06 pm
  • Real Name: Samy Bukowski

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostFri Apr 12, 2024 9:22 pm

Benchmarks:
geekbench2.JPG
geekbench2.JPG (29.99 KiB) Viewed 1595 times

geekbench1.JPG
geekbench1.JPG (49.04 KiB) Viewed 1595 times
Offline

triplescience

  • Posts: 12
  • Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2024 12:06 pm
  • Real Name: Samy Bukowski

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostFri Apr 12, 2024 9:24 pm

Speed Tests:

RAW:
raw speed test.JPG
raw speed test.JPG (90.56 KiB) Viewed 1594 times

Main C drive:
disc test C.JPG
disc test C.JPG (47.52 KiB) Viewed 1594 times

SSD:
disc test F.JPG
disc test F.JPG (40.09 KiB) Viewed 1594 times
Offline

triplescience

  • Posts: 12
  • Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2024 12:06 pm
  • Real Name: Samy Bukowski

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostFri Apr 12, 2024 9:28 pm

Peter Chamberlain wrote:When the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080Ti was released people were working in UHD at 24fps with a codec that didn’t require special decoding.

With h264/265 OSB at UHD 60p, that’s a lot more data and difficulty to decode. That and the old CPU supports the the need for pre processing the source images to a better codec for fast decoding, using cache, a lower resolution timeline or a combination of the above.


Thank you this was helpful and educational insight.
Jim Simon wrote:It wouldn't hurt.


Fair, thank you.

Tony359 wrote:Well, I don't call it that way. But if you discuss on a forum you need to be prepared to explain things to others


There was no malice in this I genuinely thought I was missing something. Or if we were speaking at cross-purposes.
Offline
User avatar

Uli Plank

  • Posts: 22200
  • Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:48 am
  • Location: Germany and Indonesia

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostFri Apr 12, 2024 9:57 pm

ProRes 4444XQ is overkill for anything but cinema and/or heavy VFX. And, yes, for this you need very fast media. A NVMe drive via Thunderbolt can handle it, but ProRes 422 HQ will make your next investment far cheaper.
We still don't know if your OBS footage is CFR or VFR. Check the second page to the tree display of MediaInfo.
Now that the cat #19 is out of the bag, test it as much as you can and use the subforum.

Studio 18.6.6, MacOS 13.6.7, 2017 iMac, 32 GB, Radeon Pro 580
MacBook M1 Pro, 16 GPU cores, 32 GB RAM
Sonoma 14.5 with 19b3 (sandbox)
SE, UltraStudio Monitor G3
Offline

triplescience

  • Posts: 12
  • Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2024 12:06 pm
  • Real Name: Samy Bukowski

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostFri Apr 12, 2024 10:11 pm

Uli Plank wrote:Check the second page to the tree display of MediaInfo.


Does this help?
Attachments
obs mp4 clip2.JPG
obs mp4 clip2.JPG (63.88 KiB) Viewed 1563 times
Offline
User avatar

joema4

  • Posts: 180
  • Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:26 pm
  • Real Name: Joe Marler

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostFri Apr 12, 2024 11:00 pm

triplescience wrote:...Does this help?


The procedure is attached. Understanding the details of each codec in use is a crucial part of troubleshooting almost any performance issue.
Attachments
MediaInfo_Procedure.jpg
MediaInfo_Procedure.jpg (258.92 KiB) Viewed 1488 times
Offline

triplescience

  • Posts: 12
  • Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2024 12:06 pm
  • Real Name: Samy Bukowski

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostSat Apr 13, 2024 12:19 am

movtext.JPG
movtext.JPG (85.81 KiB) Viewed 1449 times

obstext.JPG
obstext.JPG (94.63 KiB) Viewed 1449 times
Offline
User avatar

Uli Plank

  • Posts: 22200
  • Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:48 am
  • Location: Germany and Indonesia

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostSat Apr 13, 2024 2:18 am

So, at least it's CFR. Good. But the odd size may not fit your hardware decoder (if any).
Convert both formats to ProRes 422 and see how your machine performs then. If it works, all you need to invest is space and time.
But investing in a new machine would also help. As I wrote, my humble Apple laptop handles dissolves in either of these formats (plus even larger ones) in realtime without breaking a sweat. A strong and well set up PC should do the same.
Now that the cat #19 is out of the bag, test it as much as you can and use the subforum.

Studio 18.6.6, MacOS 13.6.7, 2017 iMac, 32 GB, Radeon Pro 580
MacBook M1 Pro, 16 GPU cores, 32 GB RAM
Sonoma 14.5 with 19b3 (sandbox)
SE, UltraStudio Monitor G3
Offline
User avatar

joema4

  • Posts: 180
  • Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:26 pm
  • Real Name: Joe Marler

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostSat Apr 13, 2024 5:03 am

Your Geekbench CPU and GPU numbers are not that bad. As expected, they are roughly in line with my numbers on my 2017 iMac 27, which has the same i7-7700K CPU.

However the BRAW speed test was much slower than my 2017 machine: 6 fps vs 23 fps on 8K CPU, and 54 fps vs 98 fps on 8K GPU.

You didn't report the "speedometer" I/O rates from the Blackmagic Disk test, but due to the below, I'm concerned the I/O capability is insufficient. Also for some reason, your SSD drive did not report any data for reads. That is very important since reads typically outnumber writes by 5:1.

The notext_002.mov file is UHD 4k/60.0 fps, ProRes 4444 XQ. It is encoded at 3.3 gigabits per second, or 413 megabytes per second. That is an extremely high data rate, beyond the ability of a fast 7200 SATA drive. That would mostly saturate a lower-end SSD such as a Samsung T5.

The MP4 file 2304 x 1536 pixel at 60.0 fps. It is H.264 8-bit 4:2:0, encoded at 132 megabits per second, or 16.5 megabytes per second. That is 1/25th the data rate of the ProRes file.

I was concerned that maybe the oddball frame size might prevent Quick Sync hardware acceleration from working, so I used FFMpeg to encode a similar file and the decode acceleration of Resolve Studio 18.6.5 seemed to work on my 2017 iMac with i7-7700K. If you have any doubts you can enable/disable Resolve hardware accelerated decoding in Resolve Preferences>System>Decode Options. There should be a major performance difference between enabled and disabled.
Offline
User avatar

Uli Plank

  • Posts: 22200
  • Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:48 am
  • Location: Germany and Indonesia

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostSat Apr 13, 2024 5:07 am

Thanks for testing, Joe, I was assuming the same for my 2017 iMac, which is not used that much anymore.
Could still be that QS doesn't do the same under Windows.
Now that the cat #19 is out of the bag, test it as much as you can and use the subforum.

Studio 18.6.6, MacOS 13.6.7, 2017 iMac, 32 GB, Radeon Pro 580
MacBook M1 Pro, 16 GPU cores, 32 GB RAM
Sonoma 14.5 with 19b3 (sandbox)
SE, UltraStudio Monitor G3
Offline
User avatar

Tony359

  • Posts: 280
  • Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:50 pm
  • Location: United Kingdom
  • Real Name: Antonio Marcheselli

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostSat Apr 13, 2024 8:30 am

Although I'm afraid I don't quite understand the point of looking at the task manager when applying a transition (are you saying just check whether the GPU or CPU gets usage blocked?), I suppose it sounds like I have a CPU bottleneck anyway given my timeline doesnt play smoothly even after everything is cached.


Your transitions are chached, your content is not.

Open task manager, click on performance and observe. Is your CPU running at 100%? Or your GPU? What temperature is your GPU running? Is your RAM full? 16GB are not a huge amount nowadays and 4K 60fps is demanding!!

Now in Resolve click on Playback-Timeline Proxy Resolution and set it to HALF. You don't need to see 4K in the small viewer. Does that help?

Also, as I said before, the caching happens when the system is idle for xx seconds. If you keep playing and moving around, caching will pause.
DaVinci Resolve Studio 18.6.6
Ryzen 5700X - 32GB RAM - 1.5TB Sata SSD - RTX 3070 8GB
Windows 10 22H2
Offline
User avatar

Uli Plank

  • Posts: 22200
  • Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:48 am
  • Location: Germany and Indonesia

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostSat Apr 13, 2024 8:38 am

Tony359 wrote:Now in Resolve click on Playback-Timeline Proxy Resolution and set it to HALF. You don't need to see 4K in the small viewer. Does that help?

Won't help much, since you'd still need to decode the whole frame first. AFAIK, the only codec that really profits from partial decoding is wavelet. Real proxies are more efficient.
Now that the cat #19 is out of the bag, test it as much as you can and use the subforum.

Studio 18.6.6, MacOS 13.6.7, 2017 iMac, 32 GB, Radeon Pro 580
MacBook M1 Pro, 16 GPU cores, 32 GB RAM
Sonoma 14.5 with 19b3 (sandbox)
SE, UltraStudio Monitor G3
Offline
User avatar

Tony359

  • Posts: 280
  • Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:50 pm
  • Location: United Kingdom
  • Real Name: Antonio Marcheselli

Re: Excruciatingly Slow

PostSat Apr 13, 2024 9:13 am

Of course real proxies are the way but at least on my system turning the timeline proxy resolution to half helps a lot - yes you have to decode the frame but then you can relax when it's time to display it, particularly when transitions, titles and effects are involved.
DaVinci Resolve Studio 18.6.6
Ryzen 5700X - 32GB RAM - 1.5TB Sata SSD - RTX 3070 8GB
Windows 10 22H2

Return to DaVinci Resolve

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], kirillbellick, panos_mts and 189 guests