Media Management Trim+relink = Project destroyed

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lukas108

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Media Management Trim+relink = Project destroyed

PostSun Feb 18, 2024 3:44 pm

Hi

I wanted to archive my project. To remove unused parts of the clip I used Media Management.

After trim process and auto relink to new cut files, project is broken. Some files are not available from timeline in their clip, most clips are desynchronized and internally moved - in one word - project has been destroyed.

Is it a broken feature? Or I missed something?
Please HELP, how to properly remove unused data from projects?

I'm on Davinci v17
Thanks
Last edited by lukas108 on Mon Feb 19, 2024 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Media Management Trim+relink = Project destroyed

PostSun Feb 18, 2024 6:22 pm

First question: does your media have proper timecode? As in does each file NOT start at 0 minutes?
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Re: Media Management Trim+relink = Project destroyed

PostSun Feb 18, 2024 7:40 pm

Revert back to the duplicate version of the project you saved before doing the procedure.

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Re: Media Management Trim+relink = Project destroyed

PostMon Feb 19, 2024 2:47 am

Any clips from smartphones involved?

We use Media Management all the time, but it only works reliably if all footage is coming from professional cameras or a hybrid camera with proper timecode.
If you find out that your clips have no proper TC, you can add it with ffmpeg or a GUI like Shutter Encoder, but that will cost extra time and storage space. Even smartphone footage can be cured with such tools, but that may not be 100% reliable.
Now that the cat #19 is out of the bag, test it as much as you can and use the subforum.

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Re: Media Management Trim+relink = Project destroyed

PostMon Feb 19, 2024 3:25 am

lukas108 wrote:I wanted to archive my project. To remove unused parts of the clip I used Media Management. After trim process and auto relink to new cut files, project is broken. Some files are not available from timeline in their clip, most clips are is desynchronized and internally moved - in one word - project has been destroyed.

It may be too late to try this, but the best tactic is to do the following:

1) save a copy of your existing project with a new name, like "My_Project_MM_2-18-2024" (MM standing for Media Managed)

2) get a new empty destination drive for the files

3) do the media management process with "Relink to New Files" selected

4) when it finishes, if all is well, you now have a smaller project with just the used files (even trimmed, if you want), and everything will be automatically linked.

At this point, you should grab a backup drive and copy over the entire original project "just in case" (with all the source files), so you have a back up in the case of disaster. Don't erase anything until you know the original is backed up!

This will absolutely work -- I've done it a dozen times in the past year or so. The key is: don't delete any files until you know they're backed up, and you've got new versions of the source files on a fast drive ready to go. As far as I know, Resolve will not move, remove, or delete files as part of the Media Management process -- the original files should be fine. The problem with relinking a media-managed project is it may have given the Trimmed files new names, and that gets tricky.
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Re: Media Management Trim+relink = Project destroyed

PostMon Feb 19, 2024 4:16 am

Second all of that, I should have cited Marc if he wasn't answering to this.

Let me add our method to check the integrity of the result (once it works as expected):
Render the media managed project out as a reference clip, import it as such into the original project and set the preview to Difference. That way it's easy to spot any fault, since a good copy should only show all black.
Now that the cat #19 is out of the bag, test it as much as you can and use the subforum.

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Re: Media Management Trim+relink = Project destroyed

PostMon Feb 19, 2024 9:07 am

Uli Plank wrote:Let me add our method to check the integrity of the result (once it works as expected):
Render the media managed project out as a reference clip, import it as such into the original project and set the preview to Difference. That way it's easy to spot any fault, since a good copy should only show all black.

An even better idea -- very good suggestion. We use Difference Mode all the time to check conforms, and it's great when multiple shots are repositioned a few pixels, enough that it matters.
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Re: Media Management Trim+relink = Project destroyed

PostMon Apr 15, 2024 9:14 am

Hi Guys. I'm back with that issue, still not solved.

This is video, showing the issue. Sorry for my bad English speech, but all should be clear enough. Please help.


When I tried to relink by selecting all clips and assign it to the folder of archive (created during timing process), 105 of 448 clips could not be found. This is just a bug I think ...
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Re: Media Management Trim+relink = Project destroyed

PostMon Apr 15, 2024 9:35 am

As far as I can see, all your .mov files are fine, while the problem shows with .mp4.
That format is notorious for missing or bad timecode, and you still didn't answer the question about it. So please check that.
And then a few more good rules from Marc, who taught me on successful trim management too:

1) limit your session to just the files actually used in the session (that is, make sure no unnecessary files are sitting in bins)

2) Render-in-Place all H.264, JPG, TIFF, and PNG graphics clips to ProRes or DNxHR so that now the clips have embedded timecode and (preferably) unique file names

3) for camera clips with embedded audio, my opinion is you're better off if you strip the sound out as a WAV file that lives in the session

4) be aware that Titles can be a bit dodgy and don't always survive the changeover with Media Management. (I would say the same thing with Fusion sequences, which I would render out and treat as a separate transcoded element.)

The simpler you make your session, the better the potential for successful Media Management. The moment you have a filename clash or a timecode conflict, it can fail. I wish Resolve had better error trapping so that when it did encounter an error, it just popped up a message with a list of problems, rather than just bailing on the Media Management entirely.

If your trim run is failing, here’s another one from Marc: do a copy run first, connecting to the new files. Then try the trim run, and it has a better chance of getting through.
Now that the cat #19 is out of the bag, test it as much as you can and use the subforum.

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Re: Media Management Trim+relink = Project destroyed

PostMon Apr 15, 2024 10:15 am

Uli Plank wrote:As far as I can see, all your .mov files are fine, while the problem shows with .mp4.
That format is notorious for missing or bad timecode, and you still didn't answer the question about it. So please check that.
And then a few more good rules from Marc, who taught me on successful trim management too:

1) limit your session to just the files actually used in the session (that is, make sure no unnecessary files are sitting in bins)

2) Render-in-Place all H.264, JPG, TIFF, and PNG graphics clips to ProRes or DNxHR so that now the clips have embedded timecode and (preferably) unique file names

3) for camera clips with embedded audio, my opinion is you're better off if you strip the sound out as a WAV file that lives in the session

4) be aware that Titles can be a bit dodgy and don't always survive the changeover with Media Management. (I would say the same thing with Fusion sequences, which I would render out and treat as a separate transcoded element.)

The simpler you make your session, the better the potential for successful Media Management. The moment you have a filename clash or a timecode conflict, it can fail. I wish Resolve had better error trapping so that when it did encounter an error, it just popped up a message with a list of problems, rather than just bailing on the Media Management entirely.

If your trim run is failing, here’s another one from Marc: do a copy run first, connecting to the new files. Then try the trim run, and it has a better chance of getting through.


Thanks Uli, you all probably have a right that the issue is lack of timecodes in the files. But I see also issues with some MOV files that sound comes from camera. There is no perfect relations when it comes to mp4 + WAV, and MOV files.
It seems that I will have to archive entire projects with unused media at this moment.
PS. In VEGAS I could archive in this way with no issue, even if files came from several sources.
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Re: Media Management Trim+relink = Project destroyed

PostMon Apr 15, 2024 2:09 pm

lukas108 wrote:It seems that I will have to archive entire projects with unused media at this moment.
You know that you can separate media that are completely unused and get rid of those?
Now that the cat #19 is out of the bag, test it as much as you can and use the subforum.

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Re: Media Management Trim+relink = Project destroyed

PostMon Apr 15, 2024 3:04 pm

Uli Plank wrote:
lukas108 wrote:It seems that I will have to archive entire projects with unused media at this moment.
You know that you can separate media that are completely unused and get rid of those?


I'm relatively new in Resolve, could tell me how to do that? As I understand - I would convert used clips to separated files that will be having all meta datas/timecodes etc. inside the timeline. My goal is - make archive smaller than entire project folder, but I would like to keep original quality as much as possible.

For now, my archive looks like this:
1. Used Media management, used copy all used media, relink files.
2. I've exported project drp files to archive folder.
3. I've copied render files to archive folder
I get 100% health projects, 1/4-1/3 smaller than original size.
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Media Management Trim+relink = Project destroyed

PostMon Apr 15, 2024 4:14 pm

I agree with you Uli that if there were solid timecode throughout the project things probably would be fine.

I also agree with the OP that what he’s seeing shouldn’t happen.

The suggestions posted here are great workarounds to the bugs in the media manager. But that doesn’t take away from this behavior indicating that there are bugs in the media manager that can severely - and silently - break a project.
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Re: Media Management Trim+relink = Project destroyed

PostTue Apr 16, 2024 12:52 am

Absolutely. My main complaint is the lack of any messages regarding what is going wrong.
I’m sure Marc needed a lot of testing to come up with those rules I cited. But one important point he’s always stressing: he converts GOP codecs to ProRes before using them in DR.
Yes, you need more space, but far less Aspirin.

P. S. DNxHR or Cineform are just as good at similar datarates.
Now that the cat #19 is out of the bag, test it as much as you can and use the subforum.

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Re: Media Management Trim+relink = Project destroyed

PostTue Apr 16, 2024 7:04 am

Uli Plank wrote:Absolutely. My main complaint is the lack of any messages regarding what is going wrong.
I’m sure Marc needed a lot of testing to come up with those rules I cited. But one important point he’s always stressing: he converts GOP codecs to ProRes before using them in DR.
Yes, you need more space, but far less Aspirin.

P. S. DNxHR or Cineform are just as good at similar datarates.

100% agree. And we also go a step further: if we have embedded audio on camera clips, we extract the audio as a WAV file and keep it in a separate SOUND format. That will absolutely Media Manage. I'm not as confident that an embedded-audio file will media manage, especially with a non-timecoded format like H.264. I've said for years and years that "H.264 is bad for post" (period), and it still is in 2024.
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Re: Media Management Trim+relink = Project destroyed

PostThu Apr 18, 2024 10:19 am

How to report this issue to the devs the most effectively?
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Re: Media Management Trim+relink = Project destroyed

PostThu Apr 18, 2024 11:57 am

Try the beta subforum.
But I doubt they'll care to support clips without proper TC. All other issues are legit complaints, IMHO.
Now that the cat #19 is out of the bag, test it as much as you can and use the subforum.

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