H.264/H.265 vs ProRes on MacBook Pro M3 Pro/Max

Folks, please stop using H.264 if you have access to H.265.
H.264 is over 20 years old!

So? All NLE's have had ample time to "adjust", and since earlier models of Apple silicon hardware (m1/M2 Pro/Mac) had no problems handling h264, that should be an issue at all.

On "old" Panasonic FF cameras (including my S5), internal (!!!) UHD/C4k Log or HLG with 4:2:2 and - in my case 25 fps - is ONLY possible in up to 150 megabit/sec in h264, I'm not sure, if it also covers the current S1 models (and to what extend), but I have a theory...

Regqards

Folks, please stop using H.264 if you have access to H.265.
H.264 is over 20 years old!

So? All NLE's have had ample time to "adjust", and since earlier models of Apple silicon hardware (m1/M2 Pro/Mac) had no problems handling h264, that should be an issue at all.

On "old" Panasonic FF cameras (including my S5), internal (!!!) UHD/C4k Log or HLG with 4:2:2 and - in my case 25 fps - is ONLY possible in up to 150 megabit/sec in h264, I'm not sure, if it also covers the current S1 models (and to what extend), but I have a theory...

Regqards

Yes, it’s the same on S1H and that’s a problem.
but for S5 IIX there is no such problem

H.264 has several limitations compared to H.265. H.265 offers significantly better compression efficiency, reducing bandwidth and storage needs while maintaining higher quality. It handles high-motion scenes and dark scenes more effectively, reducing artifacts and providing smoother gradients. It also offers better scalability and network adaptability, and provides improved error recovery for streaming.

Shortly: "media offline" error when it's not and decode error during render on maximum speed

There is a topic connected with these problems - https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=194673. I explained the issues there and they are very similar to what other users of M3 Pro experience

I haven't tested H.265 because most of my footage is H.264

Hope it will be useful

I've skimmed the linked content, and I see your problem. If I have overlooked a detail or two, please correct me.

Let's - just for a moment - assume, that it's not an Apple hardware (chipset) problem. You've tried several M3's (quote: "So far, I have returned two M3 computers (onto my 3rd now)"), and we'll probably not get further following that trail (until Apple - ahem - "unexpectedly discovers" the need for a firmware chip update on this specific issue).

Let's also assume, that DaVinci Resolve Studio (up to and including 18.6.6) is working to spec (on my S5 I see no problems with h264 - although I'm on an M1 Pro critter). Since you can eliminate the M3 side effects (though at a huge cost), by altering one setting, we may have to accept, that the Studio version is working to spec.

This really leaves only one other, main factor: Sonoma. That OS has had a number of serious - and I stress the term serious - "personality issues" from 14.1 and up to 14.4.1 (I haven't dared install 14.5 yet, since I've hardly completed the clean-up since installing iOS 17.5).

Let's first look at a key setting under "Battery" (they exist in various forms in earlier OS versions - here my Sonoma 14.4.1);

Marked settings o importance

Skærmbillede 2024-05-20 kl. 16.42.45.jpg (151.59 KiB) Viewed 3348 times

I'm not installing a US-version, but instead explaining the settings I have marked in the image.

Upper: "Avoid 'sleep' when the screen is "paused/turned off" and connected to PSU. MUST be ON!

This one is important under several Mac OS version (major and minor). I won't go into a long winded explanation here. Look on the internet.

Lower: Allow hard disks to enter "sleep mode", when possible. Here: "ONLY on battery" or OFF!

It is hard to establish the actual effect, but with the shown setting problems are minimized on Monterey, Ventura and Sonoma (and earlier versions as well). Since Sonoma has been unusually "well bug ridden" from start - and still is - I'm not certain on the effect of these settings anymore.

I have a fews questions, that may help reach a better understanding of what MAY (no promise) be involved, and hopefully lead to easing your pain and problems. The following covers ALL your system use, daily use experiences etc.

Code: Select all

1. Has the system become more or less reliable over the Sonoma updates.

2. Are you using Time Macine?
    2.a locally connected (USB/Thunderbolt etc) disk?
    2.b Disk type? (SSD, HDD)?
    2.c NAS share?
    2.d Both?
    2.e What settings?

3. If using Time Machine backups have you at ANY time experienced error messages along the line "cannot connect to drive/target" or "Access credential problems" as case for termination of an earlier Time Machine backup? Or other "messages" indicating, that the Time Machine backup was terminated prematurely?

4. If you're using another backup setup, have you experienced access problems?

5. Have you experienced other odd issues in daily use on your M3's (using Sonoma)?

6. As I read the linked thread, you NEVER work with externally connected media (SSD's, HDD's) connected directly to the M3. Is that correct?

7. Do ANY of your problematic projects reference Server/NAS/Cloud based content in ANY way? If yes, please elaborate.


It doesn't hurt, if you elaborate on any oddities experienced - also in general for any use on your system. An insight in prior activity (if possible or even only "as far as you remember", a feeling or hunch) will probably be helpful.

I won't elaborate on possible "experiences", but it doesn't hurt to look into Sonoma's actual influence on system behavior in cases involving especially recent or newly released Apple Silicon hardware.

Regards

I have heard that one should NEVER edit video files on their internal drive - is that true? And if so, why?

At the office, we don't have an M3 system, but we do have an M1 and M2 studio ultra. Normally we store the footage on a NAS, via a 10Gb adapter, mostly reaches read speeds up to 1000Mps, which is really more than enough. But last week i had a few issues with the connection, and i copied a project to the desktop. Well.. I kinda got blown away by the speed. It reached speeds up to 5500MBps, which is totally overkill in theory, but i did notice a difference in performance. Importing, generating waveforms, scrubbing through all the footage, it was like cutting with a hot knife through butter, tasted really good...

I'm considering doing that more often, to delete it from the desktop when the project is finished.

only works with projects which aren't too big of course.

H.264 has several limitations compared to H.265. H.265 offers significantly better compression efficiency, reducing bandwidth and storage needs while maintaining higher quality. It handles high-motion scenes and dark scenes more effectively, reducing artifacts and providing smoother gradients. It also offers better scalability and network adaptability, and provides improved error recovery for streaming.

You're absolutely right, but it doesn't help people using hardware, that forces the use of h264 (or worse).

On my S5 I only get h265 4:2:0 (if I remember correctly), when I select 6k image burst (who'd have "thunk" that , which is actually implemented as a 200 megabit/sec video recording, sound inclusive even allowing Log in 5.1k 3:2 crop mode. It's noisy (mechanically) and has a limit of 15 minutes, but may allow testing an alternative approach to h264 on som Panasonic hardware (including MFT).

The ONLY other way to get h265 on my S5 is through HDMI recording (I use Atomos Ninja V), but then I prefer ProRES 422 HQ and use the internal h264 recording with camera sound as emergency/sync/scratch media. The Ninja setup not quite as "Ninja like" or even portable in real life, compared to camera recordings made internally only.

Regards and a big smile

H.264 has several limitations compared to H.265. ...

That is all true. But in case of Sony only way I can get 30fps is if I use XAVC SI and that is H.264 so I'm forced to use it. Lots of old footage is in H.264 too.

In any case, system should be able to handle H.264 if that is what user wants/needs because H.264 was very common, it is not as if it is exotic.

The Nikon Z8 which I mentioned before as something to consider for Marty (OP) does H.265 (4K oversampled and 8K) as well as 8K NRAW, as well as 4K ProRes Raw and ProRes. The only time I've seen any lagging in playback on my M1 Max MBP is with 8K H.265. It's harder on the machine than 8K NRAW.

The Nikon Z8 which I mentioned before as something to consider for Marty (OP) does H.265 (4K oversampled and 8K) as well as 8K NRAW, as well as 4K ProRes Raw and ProRes. The only time I've seen any lagging in playback on my M1 Max MBP is with 8K H.265. It's harder on the machine than 8K NRAW.

Not against your advice. It may be pertinent, even good, but…

…if we have to upgrade working cameras each time a new Apple Silicon chip or new macOS (major or minor versions) sees the light of day, camera manufacturing would become the next big thing next to “mobile plans” and legal money printing.

Regards

The Nikon Z8 which I mentioned before as something to consider for Marty (OP) does H.265 (4K oversampled and 8K) as well as 8K NRAW, as well as 4K ProRes Raw and ProRes. The only time I've seen any lagging in playback on my M1 Max MBP is with 8K H.265. It's harder on the machine than 8K NRAW.

Not against your advice. It may be pertinent, even good, but…

…if we have to upgrade working cameras each time a new Apple Silicon chip or new macOS (major or minor versions) sees the light of day, camera manufacturing would become the next big thing next to “mobile plans” and legal money printing.

Regards

This has nothing to do with macOS, it's just that Nikon made some giant leaps with internal raw recording as well as adding 8K H.265 as options for recording. Nikon is not forcing anyone to buy their cameras but they are certainly worth a look, especially for someone who is not embedded in another system. In addition they have some excellent sales right now. In the UK, the Z8 is £700 cheaper than full price right now, in the EU I think it's several hundred euro and the same in the US in dollars. Nobody is forcing but it is a very good time to buy right now.

The Nikon Z8 which I mentioned before as something to consider for Marty (OP) does H.265 (4K oversampled and 8K) as well as 8K NRAW, as well as 4K ProRes Raw and ProRes. The only time I've seen any lagging in playback on my M1 Max MBP is with 8K H.265. It's harder on the machine than 8K NRAW.

Not against your advice. It may be pertinent, even good, but…

…if we have to upgrade working cameras each time a new Apple Silicon chip or new macOS (major or minor versions) sees the light of day, camera manufacturing would become the next big thing next to “mobile plans” and legal money printing.

Regards

This has nothing to do with macOS, it's just that Nikon made some giant leaps with internal raw recording as well as adding 8K H.265 as options for recording. Nikon is not forcing anyone to buy their cameras but they are certainly worth a look, especially for someone who is not embedded in another system. In addition they have some excellent sales right now. In the UK, the Z8 is £700 cheaper than full price right now, in the EU I think it's several hundred euro and the same in the US in dollars. Nobody is forcing but it is a very good time to buy right now.

All fine and dandy, but this does NOT solve the problem with existing h264 material for that specific user, or any other user potentially affected in the future, in a world overflowing with “old” h264 material of any size, frame rate or bitrate.

It may be more pressing solving the problem for existing h264 material - some would probably be “once in a lifetime” or “never to be repeated” (main characters dead, building demolished etc) materiel, than run into the next best camera outlet, and buying a new camera, which doesn’t solve the immediate problem.

New camera seldom solves existing problems - except sellers bottom line (at best

Not everybody is starting out with a new and first camera. A nice portion of those reading this forum probably have created digital videos for five, ten even fifteen or more years; some of that material even has value today and in the future. Whether h264 or something else.

I doub’t most of them need advice on what to buy next and when.

Regards

All fine and dandy, but this does NOT solve the problem with existing h264 material for that specific user, or any other user potentially affected in the future, in a world overflowing with “old” h264 material of any size, frame rate or bitrate.

It may be more pressing solving the problem for existing h264 material - some would probably be “once in a lifetime” or “never to be repeated” (main characters dead, building demolished etc) materiel, than run into the next best camera outlet, and buying a new camera, which doesn’t solve the immediate problem.

New camera seldom solves existing problems - except sellers bottom line (at best

Not everybody is starting out with a new and first camera. A nice portion of those reading this forum probably have created digital videos for five, ten even fifteen or more years; some of that material even has value today and in the future. Whether h264 or something else.

I doub’t most of them need advice on what to buy next and when.

The original post was asking for advice for a newby to video editing and what gear to buy including a new camera not about solving the problems of H.264 which is way off topic and a massive diversion in fact. I think I'm on topic here.

All fine and dandy, but this does NOT solve the problem with existing h264 material for that specific user, or any other user potentially affected in the future, in a world overflowing with “old” h264 material of any size, frame rate or bitrate.

It may be more pressing solving the problem for existing h264 material - some would probably be “once in a lifetime” or “never to be repeated” (main characters dead, building demolished etc) materiel, than run into the next best camera outlet, and buying a new camera, which doesn’t solve the immediate problem.

New camera seldom solves existing problems - except sellers bottom line (at best

Not everybody is starting out with a new and first camera. A nice portion of those reading this forum probably have created digital videos for five, ten even fifteen or more years; some of that material even has value today and in the future. Whether h264 or something else.

I doub’t most of them need advice on what to buy next and when.

The original post was asking for advice for a newby to video editing and what gear to buy including a new camera not about solving the problems of H.264 which is way off topic and a massive diversion in fact. I think I'm on topic here.

You’re right. I should have returned to the other thread, and not continued here. I only assumed you answered one of the latest posts in the thread, not the first. Silly me.

I assume, you have read at least some, maybe many, if not all the entries before releasing your “sales pitch”; you - of course - have discovered, that the original poster had a clear vision of using a camera very different from an 8k Nikon, as well as contemplating using iPhones (up to and including iPhone 15 Pro).

I’m not criticizing the Nikon camera. It’s interesting, good maybe even lovely, but is it the right camera for the “OP” here and now, and will it allow the “OP” to reach his stated objective hitting the ground running without any practical hands on knowledge of the Nikon?

Large discounts alone on a single item does not necessarily mean low, even affordable price, on top of costs of a new computer and all added essentials. Including starting to learn new software.

Will he be able to report from the running up to the US election (2024!), as intended?

I assume, that you have read the content of many posts in this thread, including some of the later posters advice (far wiser and more knowledgeable than I), and disagree completely with their very clear advice to the OP.

I’d really like to hear your arguments. Really. Honestly. I’m always willing to learn.

Regards

I was just making Marty aware of alternatives to the Sony. I never said he should buy a Z8, I just mentioned its existence as an alternative. He was talking about spending $7000 on a Sony with lenses presumably and the Z8 with 24-120 amazingly sharp zoom is about $4500. It wasn't a sales pitch. I have no shares in Nikon and have nothing to gain by anyone buying one. I just love the camera myself. It's the best camera I've ever had by a long way. I do know quite a few Sony and Canon shooters who have made the switch in the last while though and there are good reasons for that.

Anyway I have been advocating that Marty should keep it simple and get moving whatever he decides on. He has definitely been overthinking things and been fed advice left, right and centre. I have been trying to be helpful and advising simplicity over complexity, focusing on his main goal. That's about it. I wish him luck.

I was just making Marty aware of alternatives to the Sony. I never said he should buy a Z8, I just mentioned its existence as an alternative. He was talking about spending $7000 on a Sony with lenses presumably and the Z8 with 24-120 amazingly sharp zoom is about $4500. It wasn't a sales pitch. I have no shares in Nikon and have nothing to gain by anyone buying one. I just love the camera myself. It's the best camera I've ever had by a long way. I do know quite a few Sony and Canon shooters who have made the switch in the last while though and there are good reasons for that.

Anyway I have been advocating that Marty should keep it simple and get moving whatever he decides on. He has definitely been overthinking things and been fed advice left, right and centre. I have been trying to be helpful and advising simplicity over complexity, focusing on his main goal. That's about it. I wish him luck.

I accept your point. I’m not perfect

I also hope, that Marty can break the “impasse” or indecision state, and begin a few practical tests in real life - on whatever gear he already has at hand. That will probably answer a nice selection of the myriad of questions he has posted. Simplifying many choices, I think.

Regards

I was just making Marty aware of alternatives to the Sony. I never said he should buy a Z8, I just mentioned its existence as an alternative. He was talking about spending $7000 on a Sony with lenses presumably and the Z8 with 24-120 amazingly sharp zoom is about $4500. It wasn't a sales pitch. I have no shares in Nikon and have nothing to gain by anyone buying one. I just love the camera myself. It's the best camera I've ever had by a long way. I do know quite a few Sony and Canon shooters who have made the switch in the last while though and there are good reasons for that.

Anyway I have been advocating that Marty should keep it simple and get moving whatever he decides on. He has definitely been overthinking things and been fed advice left, right and centre. I have been trying to be helpful and advising simplicity over complexity, focusing on his main goal. That's about it. I wish him luck.

Please tell me, I really need to know but I can’t find the information - does the Z8 have a focus transition like the S1H or S5 IIX?

Please tell me, I really need to know but I can’t find the information - does the Z8 have a focus transition like the S1H or S5 IIX?

Not that I'm aware of.

IIRC the OP wanted to record Prores internal. At one point he asked about using an external recorder.

I didn't think the OP had experience with any of the ML cameras mentioned. The learning curve is going to exist no matter which brand is bought.

Just because the Z8 can handle 8K doesn't mean it's not a 4K camera. It's oversampled in most 4K modes. That would cover the OP for quality

I'm under the impression that first of all he wants to know if the current M3 models of Apple's laptop have an issue with compressed files from any of these cameras.
Only users of these can answer that question reliably.

I'm under the impression that first of all he wants to know if the current M3 models of Apple's laptop have an issue with compressed files from any of these cameras.
Only users of these can answer that question reliably.

If Marty follows advice, he doesn't need to worry about H.264 at all. He just needs to think H.265 whatever camera he chooses for the type of work he is intending to do. ProRes is overkill given the massive file sizes.

I really doubt there are any issues with H.265 on M3 Macs, at least from the Nikon cameras that can record it (Z8, Z9, Zf) or there would be widespread reports. I might be missing something but the issues reported here seem to be related to H.264 from Sony and maybe Panasonic cameras with Resolve in particular? If there was a general problem with hardware decoding of H.265 on M3 Macs, there would be reports on Apple's FCP forum. I have an occasional look in there and there is nothing about any of this that I've seen.

As far as cameras are concerned, if I was Marty, I would be thinking about a hybrid mirrorless rather than an iPhone for the reasons mentioned above by Joema in relation to using one properly for professional results. In addition, I think it is also important to keep appearances in mind when dealing with people. You need to look professional as well as be professional to earn respect. While I have no doubt that iPhones are capable of delivering high quality results in the right hands, using a phone does not give the appearance of professionalism. How important that is in Marty's case I don't know but I suspect it will be a factor.

Maybe someone present here might know - does the Z8 have a focus transition (Rack Focus) like the S1H or S5 IIX?
We need a camera to shoot luxury jewelry in high resolution 6K 30 fps. And the Z8 is a great option for this, but it becomes completely pointless if it doesn't have a focus transition (Rack Focus) function like the S1H or S5 IIX

Maybe someone present here might know - does the Z8 have a focus transition (Rack Focus) like the S1H or S5 IIX?
We need a camera to shoot luxury jewelry in high resolution 6K 30 fps. And the Z8 is a great option for this, but it becomes completely pointless if it doesn't have a focus transition (Rack Focus) function like the S1H or S5 IIX

I am always hesitant to be a hostage to fortune, hence the slightly non-commital answer earlier. However, I can confidently say that there is no rack focus feature in the Z8 (or Z9).

Joe,

As you implied, to best approach a "pro" look, you want the 15 Pro using the 3x lens and the 15 Pro Max using the 5x. Given sufficient floor space and background, that produces a fairly nice shallow DOF image that many casual viewers might view as a professionally-shot interview.

This is an interesting link regarding how zoom works in an iPhone 15 Pro vs Pro Max...

https://www.reddit.com/r/applehelp/comments/1892q6m/so_the_3x_zoom_on_the_iphone_15_pro_is_actually/

However you are pinned to those spots on the floorplan based on the needed composition. It is actually more difficult than using our FX6 or RED cameras -- at least with those, we have many lenses.

Okay.

Also at 5x, the iPhone 15 Pro Max is really twitchy if used on a photo tripod. It needs to be on a fluid-damped video tripod with a pan handle. The 3x lens is not as sensitive, but it also should be on a fluid-damped video tripod with a pan handle.

Twitchy in what way?

What does that mean?

Fwiw, I have been looking to up my field rig and get a beefier tripod, fluid-pan head, and a Zoom F6 or maybe Zoom F8n.

For an interview, you also need external audio, which must be synced in post with the iPhones. We tried the Rode Wireless Pro, which basically worked but it has its own complexities. We half-tested the timecode sync with the phone, and there were some issues I can't remember, but we didn't pursue resolving those.

Currently I use a Zoom H6 with an XLR shotgun mic and have had good results with it. (Personally, I have never seen why people use in camera recording, and it's hard to believe recording into a video caemra could compete with a dedicated digital recorder. But I am no expert in audio...

The bottom line is if you have experienced people and decent lighting and other equipment, and if you thoroughly practice in advance, you can shoot an interview with an iPhone 15 Pro/Max that looks good. But it's no easier than using a "real" camera -- IMO it's harder.

Because of budgetary constraints, I can't see myself being able to get into a mirrorless until early Fall 2024 at best. ($5,000 for a laptop, $2,000 for lighting, $1,500 for an iPad, $1,500 for an iPhone 15 Pro Max, plus TAX is going to break my bank account as it is!!!)

A camera has purpose-designed buttons, menus, interfaces and power options. In some configurations, the iPhone has deeply-nested config settings that can be confusing. To shoot ProRes you really need both external storage and external power for the iPhone, which means some kind of adapter.

Valid points!

You can whip out an iPhone at a party, hit "record" and get decent recreational material. But to get good quality "pro" results on a documentary or scripted narrative, you essentially must use the pro procedures and pro equipment you'd use on a real camera. E.g, white balance the phones, shoot a color checker card, etc.

A good reminder!

But isn't an iPhone cheaper than a dedicated camera? Well, you also basically need a separate dedicated iPhone for that, unless someone wants to give up their phone for several hours. You can get a used BMPCC4k and lens for less than a 512GB iPhone 15 Pro Max.

More material for another thread, but thanks for the suggestion!

Michael,

Thanks for that very balanced and objective appraisal Joema. I think Marty would do very well to take what you say into very serious consideration when deciding his way forward with what appears to me be an impossible task given the short timescales involved.

Yes, I appreciate all of the wisdom here so far.

Ironically, my biggest downfall is going to be a judge and jury that are moving way too quickly for me!! (I'm never gonna learn how to do professional-looking talking-head videos in the next two weeks - plus I can't even get the gear in that time.

Sadly, I think I need to stick with my currently gear, current approach, and focusing on street interviews for right now.

Am thinking buying my lighting gear, backdrop, etc is the next step and just try that out using my iPhone 11 Pro Max and see if I can get acceptable talking-head videos.

(My HOPE is that good lighting, good sound, and good on-camera presence will trump a lack of camera gear for now.)

Michael,

Marty you need to greatly simplify your plans in my opinion.

I have come to that same conclusion after diving into the center of the video whirlpool over the last month!

Decide on what you actually need and go. It's already time to start practising to be ready for November.

Even worse, NOW is when I need to be ready for an upcoming jury decision!

When it comes down to real time image-making, you not only need to know what to do right but you also need to know what to do when things go wrong which they inevitably will do. It has to become second nature and that only happens with practice. The more complicated you make things, the higher the probability that things will go wrong.

You are absolutely right on this!

(I remember my first sit down interview at the start of the pandemic with a school administrator, and I had just gotten a new tripod, and couldn't figure out how to get the head to lock, and the principal was starting to get irritated, and it almost killed the interview - but I saved things in the end. So I get what you are saying!)

You need to decide on a setup, get the gear and start yesterday. Cut out the extraneous noise and focus on the essentials.

Understood!

Hoping to get on the road her ein a few weeks - still not sure to do with the current trial as it is moving faster than I can.

As an example of over-complexity, to really benefit from the power of node-based grading, you need to be getting towards advanced colorist level which is beyond anything you are likely to need for simple interview videos. Again there are serious time constraints. You need to have an in-depth understanding of how and when to use specific nodes and node structures. This in itself is not something that will happen overnight. A plan for the future perhaps as with learning motion graphics.

I will start another thread on this, but briefly...

Is there any reason that I should NOT quickly learn DaVinci Resolve to do basic editing, trimming, merging external audio, and maybe some simple title slides?

Yes, I know I could use iMovie or Final Cut Pro, but are the basics any harder in DaVinci Resolve than in FCP? (If not, then I might as well strat on the first step of DR, right?)

Uli,

Just like these two voices of reason, I'd also suggest to stop the overthinking and get practical.

You are all right, and I get that.

If your current laptop doesn't cut it (no pun intended, or is it?), get a M1,2,3 Mac with a minimum of 16 GB RAM and keep your iPhone and go for it!

Have been side-tracked for the last week - we have had lots of severe weather here in the Midwest (e.g. tornados, hail, flooding) and that has tied me up.

Also trying to get some bags for my gear so I can start building my travel kit. (They screwed up my order, so little things like that delay me.)

Now I am a week behind.

Will likely be ordering a new MacBook Pro here shortly.

Am thinking I should also get the lighting/YouTube studio gear that I was checking out in January so I have something to do talking head videos.

As mentioned before, will start off using my current iPhone and external audio gear to see if I can get decent talking head videos.

My current rig is sufficient for street interviews.

Then depending how all of that goes, maybe will bet an iPhone, but a mirrorless is off the table for now, and I'm not sure I can learn how to use a manual Blackmagic video camera in time - same issues as you all are warning me about.

You can always buy an iPhone 15/16/17, or a Sony/Nikon/Canon/Panasonic (or rent an Arri Alexa) when you find out you need it in real life and have the spare cash. But without a working computer and experience it's all just dreaming.

Yes, I agree.

I need to learn basic video editing and start publishing my existing work, and see how that looks first.

Then once I can finally see all of this video I have been shooting for 4+ years, and see how it looks, THEN I can figure out what to do next.

Michael,
....cut
Is there any reason that I should NOT quickly learn DaVinci Resolve to do basic editing, trimming, merging external audio, and maybe some simple title slides?

No, if you have equal non-experience in Final Cut Pro and DaVinci Resolve, you might as well get going in DaVinci (if your current system is suited). For simple tasks, like you describe, differences are not that great in real life. If you already have experience in using Final Cut Pro, why start "wasting time", when time is of maximum essence to get going?

IF you NEED (absolutely and truly) the option to work in windows in tight situations, that's the only way forward (unless you'll want to experience the ordeal of working via a remote screen into a MacBook. An "acquired taste", at best.

Regards

Michael,

Anyway I have been advocating that Marty should keep it simple and get moving whatever he decides on. He has definitely been overthinking things and been fed advice left, right and centre. I have been trying to be helpful and advising simplicity over complexity, focusing on his main goal. That's about it. I wish him luck.

And that is excellent advice!

Nick,

IIRC the OP wanted to record Prores internal. At one point he asked about using an external recorder.

I didn't think the OP had experience with any of the ML cameras mentioned. The learning curve is going to exist no matter which brand is bought.

Just because the Z8 can handle 8K doesn't mean it's not a 4K camera. It's oversampled in most 4K modes. That would cover the OP for quality

I over-analyze everything, and counter to my critics, it almost always pays off, because I don't make a lot of the foolish mistake people who just "dive in" make.

The point is that a lot of my questions were thinking 10 steps ahead.

But, yes, I have never owned a mirrorless, or shot video on a camera, or even had access to a lot of the stuff discussed here.

However, I have been planning on getting a new iPhone 15 Pro Max for several months now because I need another iPhone (camera) in my workflow. And since a new iPhone uses a lot of the things we have been discussing (e.g. ProRes) I figured that I should start learning about these things.

At the same time, Michael and Uli and others are 1000% correct that I need to get back out in the field and continue to hone my skills. (And I most certainly need to finally learn how to edit 25TB of video and start publishing things, otherwise, why shoot video?)

So while I will continue to ask about things like ProRes, H.265, inter vs intra-frames, color-grading, etc. I agree that a lot fo that stuff is down the road for me.

Let's just pray that H.264 (?) footage on an iPhone 11 Pro Max with external audio is good enough for my end audience - because that is what I have!

Michael,

If Marty follows advice, he doesn't need to worry about H.264 at all. He just needs to think H.265 whatever camera he chooses for the type of work he is intending to do. ProRes is overkill given the massive file sizes.

Yeah, I guess an iPhone 15 Pro Max would be shooting H.265, right?

And even my iPhone 11 Pro Max has an option for HEVC - I just never chose it because I can't preview the footage afterwards on my current laptop.

I really doubt there are any issues with H.265 on M3 Macs, at least from the Nikon cameras that can record it (Z8, Z9, Zf) or there would be widespread reports. I might be missing something but the issues reported here seem to be related to H.264 from Sony and maybe Panasonic cameras with Resolve in particular? If there was a general problem with hardware decoding of H.265 on M3 Macs, there would be reports on Apple's FCP forum. I have an occasional look in there and there is nothing about any of this that I've seen.

And if there were consistent issues with H.264 on M3 Macs, I would think you'd hear about it more online as well.

Uli will probably yell at me for this, but I will be getting a new M3 regardless.

First, I will not compromise on configuration with used. (I want what I want - even the color!)

Second, I bought a near new refurbished MacBook Pro from a reputable seller and ended up needing to pay for a new logic board 6 months later, so while I am all for used gear, not really for used laptops.

If my new M3 has issues, then either I will ditch a CODEC (e.g. H.264, H.265, etc), or ditch the software (e.g. DaVinci Resolve) or ditch the camera - which I don't own yet (e.g. Sony a7S iii).

Either way, I will be getting a beefy M3 Pro or M3 Max in the next week - so let's HOPE that is a wise move considering my use-case?!

As far as cameras are concerned, if I was Marty, I would be thinking about a hybrid mirrorless rather than an iPhone for the reasons mentioned above by Joema in relation to using one properly for professional results.

I started reading a thread on here - before I was accepted to the forums - about a Blackmagic camera, and maybe I will start a new thread to do a deeper dive on this?

In addition, I think it is also important to keep appearances in mind when dealing with people. You need to look professional as well as be professional to earn respect. While I have no doubt that iPhones are capable of delivering high quality results in the right hands, using a phone does not give the appearance of professionalism. How important that is in Marty's case I don't know but I suspect it will be a factor.

Interesting point, Michael, and in many situations you are correct. HOWEVER, in my situation, an iPhone is actually an asset...

You see, while my rig actually looks like a light version of the 6 O'clock news, it doesn't look so big that it intimidates.

One downside of doing any mirrorless camera - and all related gear - is that is WILL look much more professional, and ironically that won't help me in most cases - except maybe sit-down interviews.

I have interviewed over 1,600 people about the pandemic, because I - and my gear - come across as unassuming, unpretentious, and relatable. IN FACT, that is my "brand"...

I am not, nor will I ever be CNN or FoxNews, and I think people appreciate that!

Also, with any iPhone, I can pop it out of my BeastCage, and go "bare-back" and really look casual.

This is not to say that if anyone here want to buy me a new Sony a7S iii and a top-notch portrait lens that I wouldn't take it in a heart-beat, but if I never get beyond an iPhone it isn't the end of the world.

(The only reason I want a camera is because I like to shoot manual, and I don't like the fisheye effect that really all smartphones yield.)

Anther thing is that might current "piped out" iPhone is the centerpiece of MUCH conversation. Poeple walk up to me all of the time - even when I am holding it in my hand walking down the street - and they are like, "WHAT IS THAT?"

Me: "It's an iPhone."

Them: "NO WAY!!!"

Me: "Way." *smiles*

In the end, I'll get my Sony a7S iii (or a Nikon, or a BMCC), but to your earlier advice, I probably need to shut out and get back out in the field shooting, AND MORESO, learn how to edit so I can publish my work!

Michael,

Is there any reason that I should NOT quickly learn DaVinci Resolve to do basic editing, trimming, merging external audio, and maybe some simple title slides?

Yes, I know I could use iMovie or Final Cut Pro, but are the basics any harder in DaVinci Resolve than in FCP? (If not, then I might as well strat on the first step of DR, right?)

I would say a definite yes. Resolve is a much more difficult program to learn than FCP in my opinion (forget iMovie) having spent quite some time learning both. FCP is not simple by any means but Resolve is way more complex. Even starting a project in Resolve, you will be immediately mind-boggled by the number of choices. You will come on here and ask what to do and you will get at least three different answers. That is a good thing if you have time to learn what the choices mean and make an informed choice of your own but it will take longer, probably a lot longer. For you, time is of the essence.

With FCP there are a few choices, you choose one and off you go - it is much more streamlined because there are far fewer choices. In my opinion, FCP is more intuitive. Keyboard commands and the GUI in general are more consistent with other Mac apps. The magnetic timeline makes editing much easier than Resolve's more standard edit page.

While you can learn Resolve as your first NLE, I think it will take significantly more time than learning FCP for your needs, assuming you follow a structured learning process in either case. Resolve has an advantage in that BMD provide excellent training materials but they will take quite some time to work through. I'm not knocking Resolve by the way. It is a fantastic program but it is complex and it can't be tackled effectively in bits and pieces. Whatever you decide you need to take a holistic approach so you have a proper overview.

All valid about using an iPhone. I wasn't clear on your inteview process but that makes sense now. Definitely shoot HEVC (H.265) though. And get editing

Michael,
Is there any reason that I should NOT quickly learn DaVinci Resolve to do basic editing, trimming, merging external audio, and maybe some simple title slides?

There is an alternative to all this, until you get fluent in the computer setup, you plan to use (after acquiring the hardware required and mastering the tools).

It's called LumaFusion and will (probably) work on your iPhone without significant problems. It integrates with most things in the Apple-sphere. Look it up. Costs money. Onetime only, as far as I remember.

You can't get more minimalistic than that. But it's flexible in many respects. It's not "pro" in any meaningful way of the term. It's a usable tool, if that's what you've got!

I have used it on and off since.... a long time ago. I think first time was on iPhone 6 or iPhone 8 Plus and one of the first iPads ever released. It's not necessarily simple to use, if you have NO prior NLE editing experience. It mostly gets the (simple) work done (including Log and whatnot).

What iOS camera Apps can deliver (adjusted for the iPhone support on the iPhone you use), it usually handles without any hiccup.

Whenever I was forced to use it, ir worked for the simple tasks, I threw at it. It's become reasonably usable over time (especially if you have slender fingers, and not the grill sausage variety I have). I haven't used the FCPXML project export to Final Cut Pro, so... you'll have to decide for yourself.

It also runs on iPad and "Apple Silicon" (even Android, haven't checked that). Can't remember, if I have tested the App on my M1 Mac mini).

The latter makes it easy to move quick and dirty edits stored on iCloud on to any iPad or other Apple Silicon. If already possess an iPad, sausage fingers become less of a problem.

You'll have to decide for yourself, IF it is worth using as an interim solution, until you get up to snuff on a bigger system.

Note: It's NOT a recommendation. Only a heads up. Nothing more.

Link: https://luma-touch.com

Regards

...I over-analyze everything, and counter to my critics, it almost always pays off because I don't make a lot of the foolish mistakes people who just "dive in" make...

There's nothing wrong with thoroughly analyzing things -- provided it's the RIGHT things. I suggest you spend about 1/2 of your time learning and analyzing lighting, light control and composition. Here are some basic, short tutorials:

Interview shooting (lighting and composition): Interview shooting: (lighting & composition):

B-roll (beginner vs pro):

LumaFusion has come a long way, they can still compete on small devices. Of course the tiny screen is a challenge, even if it works on an iPhone.
But for some exercising, why not? With another cheap app, called VideoLUT, you can even do some basic color grading. The problem with DR: it's free for most of what you need, but the hardware is not. So, if you have difficulties to decide which hardware to get for it, why not get going with some cheap software and the hardware you already own?
I have to agree with Joe: spend much of your time getting into documentary aesthetics.

Yeah, I guess an iPhone 15 Pro Max would be shooting H.265, right?

Yes, just like the Pro, and with the right app also with quite good data rates.

And if there were consistent issues with H.264 on M3 Macs, I would think you'd hear about it more online as well.

Uli will probably yell at me for this, but I will be getting a new M3 regardless.

Why should I yell at you? It was nothing more than a heads up. I tend to recommend what I have extensive experience with. Not having experience with M3, but reading about some issues, I recommended hardware that I know very well and where I didn't have such issues.

Second, I bought a near new refurbished MacBook Pro from a reputable seller and ended up needing to pay for a new logic board 6 months later, so while I am all for used gear, not really for used laptops.

Well, I never buy refurbs from anyone but Apple. They give you one year of warranty here in Europe. I never needed to send one back, and we even bought Mac Pros and screens from them. My now 7 years old iMac workhorse was a refurb too.

If my new M3 has issues, then either I will ditch a CODEC (e.g. H.264, H.265, etc), or ditch the software (e.g. DaVinci Resolve) or ditch the camera - which I don't own yet (e.g. Sony a7S iii).

The issue should be solved by then, and I have yet to read about issues with footage out of an iPhone on M3.

Either way, I will be getting a beefy M3 Pro or M3 Max in the next week - so let's HOPE that is a wise move considering my use-case?!

I'd still consider a Max overkill for your use case. But then, I just don't believe in future-proofing anymore after more than 40 years working with computers.

(The only reason I want a camera is because I like to shoot manual, and I don't like the fisheye effect that really all smartphones yield.)

Huh? The 3x lens of an iPhone has no such effect at all. Even the 1x is pretty well corrected by software, but being wide angle, it looks strange when you are getting close to faces. Maybe that's what you are referring to?

Finally, I have to agree with Michael. If you don't have prior experience with any NLE, FCP-X is easier to learn than DR. You might even consider an M4 then for future-proofing, the colors are great!

Sorry, I'm probably quite cruel throwing another option into the mix
But then, I don't think you are the typical iPad person.

Michael,

Is there any reason that I should NOT quickly learn DaVinci Resolve to do basic editing, trimming, merging external audio, and maybe some simple title slides?

I would say a definite yes. Resolve is a much more difficult program to learn than FCP in my opinion (forget iMovie) having spent quite some time learning both. FCP is not simple by any means but Resolve is way more complex. Even starting a project in Resolve, you will be immediately mind-boggled by the number of choices. You will come on here and ask what to do and you will get at least three different answers. That is a good thing if you have time to learn what the choices mean and make an informed choice of your own but it will take longer, probably a lot longer. For you, time is of the essence.

Duly noted.

With FCP there are a few choices, you choose one and off you go - it is much more streamlined because there are far fewer choices. In my opinion, FCP is more intuitive. Keyboard commands and the GUI in general are more consistent with other Mac apps. The magnetic timeline makes editing much easier than Resolve's more standard edit page.

Okay.

While you can learn Resolve as your first NLE, I think it will take significantly more time than learning FCP for your needs, assuming you follow a structured learning process in either case. Resolve has an advantage in that BMD provide excellent training materials but they will take quite some time to work through. I'm not knocking Resolve by the way. It is a fantastic program but it is complex and it can't be tackled effectively in bits and pieces. Whatever you decide you need to take a holistic approach so you have a proper overview.

Okay.

Michael,

All valid about using an iPhone. I wasn't clear on your inteview process but that makes sense now. Definitely shoot HEVC (H.265) though. And get editing

I went to the local Apple store a second time last night, and after talking with the manager, I'm ready to "pull the trigger" on a new MacBook Pro.

Since it is Memorial Day weekend, and I still have to figure out the money thing, I won't be able to order a new laptop for another week or so, but I am ready to move forward.

And, yes, I am ready to learn video-editing, and hopefully start publish my prior work, and new work, here in June!

Joe,

There's nothing wrong with thoroughly analyzing things -- provided it's the RIGHT things.

Well, isn't that the challenge of life in general? *LOL*

Always working towards making the "RIGHT" decisions, but sometimes falling short!

I suggest you spend about 1/2 of your time learning and analyzing lighting, light control and composition. Here are some basic, short tutorials:

Thanks for the links, and yes, I agree about the importance of lighting.

Actually, I already have maybe 70-80 videos on lighting that I have downloaded (and watched) from YouTube, and I've already watched those tutorials.

I have to get my spreadsheet and finances updated this week, but I am leaning towards buying lighting before a laptop - I need to start doing talking head videos NOW.

I have a shopping list already, and it includes professional lighting and a backdrop and I estimate comes in at around $2,000.

On a side note... What I am most anxious about right now is this...

Can I look good enough on video to be comfortable to reveal myself to the entire world?



I don't have a lot of confidence in my appearance and how I look on video, and the most important thing I need to decide on is not gear, but, "Am I willing to put myself on display for the world to criticise me, and possibly tear me to shreds, and ruin my life forever, or so I sell my gear and go take up something safer like skydiving or Do-It-Yourself Bomb Diffusing?"

YOLO, but is an earlier suicide - via YouTUbe - the "RIGHT" way to go out?

Uli,

LumaFusion has come a long way, they can still compete on small devices. Of course the tiny screen is a challenge, even if it works on an iPhone.

Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, I am familiar with it, and it might be a solution - ironically - after I am a whiz at video-editing and I want to publish something from the field. But for starters, I thinking learning on my laptop is a smarter approach.

I have to agree with Joe: spend much of your time getting into documentary aesthetics.

I am drowning right now...

I know what I need to do - there just isn't enough time to do it.

Three judges stalling until 2030, and one judge moving so quick it gives me whiplash.

It is basically Memorial Day weekend, and now would be a great time to go out and interview people with my current - more than sufficient rig - HOWEVER, I need to stay home and finish all of my research and build my interview cards so I can hit the ground running when a verdict is in, and the debates start, and so on.

Right now I am at a point where 10 people are drowning, and I can only save 2-3. But which ones? (And I want to save all 10 people.)

It's really frustrating...

Also debating if I should quit my job, and go 1000% in between now and November. (Most successful entrepreneurs says either you're all in, or you're out!)

In the end, all I can do is take people's advice, make the "RIGHT" decisions under the circumstances, work 25/8, and the rest is God's will...