Did Grant say, “Paid Update?”

People are leaving Adobe because of this kind of stuff not because it sucks...People keep forgetting this.

If you lock them off and then lock BRAW updates off too (since it doesn't work on older versions), what stops people from going back to Adobe or Avid and skipping buying BMD cameras?

And then the inevitable monthly subscription model...

there is a difference between "monthly subscription" and "pay whatever money" for an update.
that is how software always worked... you pay, you get an upgrade....

there is a difference between "monthly subscription" and "pay whatever money" for an update.

If you say so...I see no difference in paying "whatever money" every year, like the Resolve major updates have been, and "whatever money / 12" per month.

that is how software always worked... you pay, you get an upgrade....

That's how some software worked. There are still plenty that are free to upgrade (like Windows for example that works from version 7 till 11 with the retail version). Open source etc.

And there are others that are subsidized by other things like hardware sales which is currently BMD's model most likely. Wasn't Resolve plastered everywhere on camera boxes and such. Buy our cameras and enjoy using Resolve for FREE.

Without Resolve aren't BMD cameras just expensive bricks since none of them shoot ProRes anymore?

Here's a quote from what Intel tried in 2010.

"Back in 2010, Intel started the “Intel Upgrade Service” and they added extra clock speed and additional cache to some Core i3 processors if you paid extra. This feature was never a success and it was halted by Intel after some severe backlash. The internet was raging over the impact of designing hardware with microtransactions."

Anyway, good luck with the update fees I guess.

OK... go back to free / open source I guess.....

I'm free to chose to support Blackmagic with some of my money.....

We all have to just wait and see. If the purchase model changes to something that’s not palatable to Resolve users, then it will be detrimental to BMD. If it is reasonable and “not a subscription”, like $49 for a major upgrade, I’m all for it as long as they provide support and only charge the GA versions, not something in beta. And again, let’s just see what he means by “Paid Update”. No need to speculate on.

Yup. So far a lot of users here defend Resolve’s lack of UI polish by saying how much value you’re getting for such a small amount of money. And they get a ton of users by being free/very inexpensive. I’m sure they’ll be very careful about changing that.

If you say so...I see no difference in paying "whatever money" every year, like the Resolve major updates have been, and "whatever money / 12" per month.

Big difference: if you stop paying your Adobe subscription, then Premiere (or whatever) stops working.

If there was a Resolve 21 update next year that costs $29.95, and you didn't want to pay it, I would bet that Resolve 20 will still keep working for years and years, as long as the hardware and the OS are still functional.

That's a huge difference.

BTW, according to stock reports, Adobe has over 30,000,000 subscribers to the Adobe Creative Suite. I tend to doubt that there are quite that many Resolve users. 1,000,000? Sure. 5,000,000? I dunno. Note that Adobe Technology has a Market Cap of about $150 billion dollars, and last I heard, Blackmagic Design is worth about a billion dollars (but is not a public company with stock).

The impression I got is more features might cost more in the future. Not just from what Grant said but what others from Blackmagic have said.

The added AI stuff that's still in development might / will be extra cost if you want it.

there is a difference between "monthly subscription" and "pay whatever money" for an update.
that is how software always worked... you pay, you get an upgrade....

Actually software used to be on a sub model if you go back. You bought an IBM mainframe it came with a service contract that was a percentage of the HW cost and that included software and updates. Same thing with DEC etc.

Buying software outright came with third parties selling software into the PC world.

I would have no problem paying $20 or $30 for a yearly update -- Blackmagic has to pay for support and R&D somehow.

Me neither, with a couple of provisos.
1 it's paid updates, not a subscription. That is, if you don't pay for the update your current version doesn't stop working.
A real world example: I did a lot in Adobe CS3-CS6 in the past and keep CS6 on the computer so I can access old files
I do some maintenance but no new work in CS6.
For Resolve, I am in semi retirement doing more fun projects for me and local groups rather than full on commercial work, so it is not cost-effective for me to pay a subscription and at some point I won't need the Resolve updates either.

However, as I didn't directly pay for Resolve Studio V16 I got it free with a Speed Editor (or vice versa) I would have no problem at this point paying $200 for V21 seeing what they have added to V20.

2 Any charges should be explained well in advance. The problem was, as I see it, Grant announced V20 public BETA with a suggestion that was read by many that V20 might be chargeable. Given that V20 upgraded the project libraries that would not be readable by V19, you can see where the panic was coming from.
If you tried V20 Beta, it would be difficult to go back to V19. And no one knew what if costs there would be, let alone the dreaded subscription some were panicking over.

So as long as BMD announce any upgrade charging framework before the public beta, I am happy with that,

As others have said, Resolve is not a trivial app. In fact, it used to be several apps ranging in cost from a few $Ks to well over $250K. It has only got more capable since then, so BMD being a commercial company has to make some money somewhere to keep the lights on and the staff's food and ret paid.

OK... go back to free / open source I guess.....

I'm free to chose to support Blackmagic with some of my money.....

As a Linux user that remark doesn't deter me one bit.

However, I think I supported Blackmagic with my hardware purchases over the years quite a lot, this isn't about supporting Blackmagic.

Its about Blackmagic not gradually turning into Adobe, which always starts with little changes like this.

The user base isn't that big and its not gonna get bigger if you start charging more for it.

Or maybe it will?

Seeing people being happy to be charged more and actively pushing for it is something I find strange.

Seeing people being happy to be charged more and actively pushing for it is something I find strange.

People will pay for things that have value.
Most on this forum are earning their income with BMD/Resolve and understand that.

As a SW guru once said "I can't afford free software" and he was right. Someone has to pay the developers.

If there was a Resolve 21 update next year that costs $29.95, and you didn't want to pay it, I would bet that Resolve 20 will still keep working for years and years, as long as the hardware and the OS are still functional.

That's a huge difference.

That's the thing. As a small time colorist and cinematographer, most of my clients (including myself) fortunately or unfortunately give me BRAW to grade. As of now, I can't grade BRAW out of the Cine 12K LF on Resolve 18 for example. Which would force me to update every time BRAW gets an update.

And I kept buying their cameras with the promise that I can decode the footage that comes out of it for free.

If that changes, why would I keep buying their cams? How many update fees offset just one lost camera purchase like the Ursa Cine 17K?

Seeing people being happy to be charged more and actively pushing for it is something I find strange.

People will pay for things that have value.
Most on this forum are earning their income with BMD/Resolve and understand that.

As a SW guru once said "I can't afford free software" and he was right. Someone has to pay the developers.

Resolve isn't free. Its 300$. You pay the developers by getting new people using it. Which in turn buy more of your hardware. Or viceversa.

As a "billion dollar company" like Marc said above, I doubt the developers aren't getting paid.

And I kept buying their cameras with the promise that I can decode the footage that comes out of it for free.

That's a fair point. The thing is you can do that.
If you don't upgrade the firmware in the camera it will work, forever and for free with the version of Resolve you have now.

If you want to upgrade the encoder, you also have to upgrade the decoder. That will be a commercial decision for you.
If you do, then you carry on with the new codecs you have bought.
If you don't, you carry on as before at no cost.

What is the problem?
Or is it that you want new things for free?

And I kept buying their cameras with the promise that I can decode the footage that comes out of it for free.

That's a fair point. The thing is you can do that.
If you don't upgrade the firmware in the camera it will work, forever and for free with the version of Resolve you have now.

If you want to upgrade the encoder, you also have to upgrade the decoder. That will be a commercial decision for you.
If you do, then you carry on with the new codecs you have bought.
If you don't, you carry on as before at no cost.

What is the problem?
Or is it that you want new things for free?

So now I'm stuck not updating firmware on my cameras? Gee, I'm sure happy about that. That will make me wanna buy more BMD hardware in the future.

People were happy to shell out for expensive hardware knowing the software that came with it would work for free.

People might not be so happy if that changes which could potentially cost BMD a lot more on hardware sale losses. The profit margin on an Ursa Cine 17K for example is not 20 bucks.

The user base of Resolve is not that big to offset potential hardware sale losses.

That is all.

It makes sense for BM to charge for things that continue to cost them when used like WEB based services for example. Pay for use makes sense but does not imply everyone would need those modules. At the moment there are only two versions, free and Studio there is no reason that more versions could be provided at different costs and upgrade policies. At one point EDIUS had two versions one general and one for Broadcast that had integration with their other broadcast software. EDIUS also had a separate CODEC package sold separately and a free version. BM could do the same with integration for ATEM etc at a different cost and upgrade policy.

Vegas has a reasonable upgrade price that is about half the new price for most upgrades. However the old products continue to work fine if upgrade is not needed. I have working versions from Vegas 13 to Vegas 18 when I stopped upgrading when I moved to Resolve. I could upgrade to Vegas 22 for $145. Reasonable compared to updating my CS6 Suite.

I am amused by people continuing to want perfect FREE product as if they work for FREE. Nothing is free in this world it is only a matter of how it is paid for. For what it costs Resolve Studio is a bargain. It is close to the lowest cost involved in shooting and editing video. Forget the cost of a camera or computer and monitor , the software cost much the same as a couple of good batteries and SD cards !! Oh, I forgot some people buy an expensive camera then get cheap batteries and SD cards from Amazon and wonder why they have problems !!

For what it costs Resolve Studio is a bargain.

Resolve is a bargain because they make their money from expensive hardware sales. Why is this such a hard concept? It certainly isn't free, even in its current form.

If they wanna change that relationship it might not be such a bargain in the future.

For what it costs Resolve Studio is a bargain.

Resolve is a bargain because they make their money from expensive hardware sales. Why is this such a hard concept? It certainly isn't free, even in its current form.

If they wanna change that relationship it might not be such a bargain in the future.

What is wrong with that ? Buy their hardware to support them. If you do not buy their hardware it is very much a bargain. Look at all the people complaining about getting a clean feed who clearly are not prepared to buy hardware from BM that would make that task easy. Sorry compared to the cost of a computer, monitor, camera and support equipment Resolve Studio is close to free. The added cost of a Ultra Studio 3G is trivial and works with any PC. Yes if you want to get a 12G monitoring solution it is expensive. But not compared with the other costs of getting to those files to edit, also the computer and monitor that makes this worthwhile. Yes a 12G monitoring BM product is over $1000 but bearing in mind a computer to edit these files and a calibrated monitor to look at them is like 5 or 6 times that cost. The BM product is still the smallest cost in the setup. Just the NVIDIA 4070Ti GPU in my PC is more expensive for instance.

What is wrong with that ? Buy their hardware to support them.

Nothing is wrong with that. That's how it works currently. Buy their hardware and work with Resolve.
Which in turn subsidizes people that only work with Resolve.

Why mess with something that works?

How many update fees you think would be necessary to offset lost hardware sales.

How many Studio users are out there that have absolutely nothing to do with any BMD hardware and are just using Resolve? Doubt there are that many...

Because as I see it now, Resolve is integral, like the OS for their hardware. Or the drivers equivalent.

Imagine Apple starting to charge again for MacOS. Buy this new phone for 1K and another 1K to make it work. And another 1K if you want security updates.

Or if Nvidia started charging for driver updates. I mean, they're developers too...they have to be paid. Or is it that they get paid by people buying their expensive hardware so that they can use the software (CUDA which is free).

there is a difference between "monthly subscription" and "pay whatever money" for an update.
that is how software always worked... you pay, you get an upgrade....

Actually software used to be on a sub model if you go back. You bought an IBM mainframe it came with a service contract that was a percentage of the HW cost and that included software and updates. Same thing with DEC etc.

Buying software outright came with third parties selling software into the PC world.

Yes but the vertical structure like IBM it was at the twilight of computers your talking about early 1980s.

Once the computer become more open (not specialized) and software decouple from hardware, that model collapsed.

For the majority of computer history, that was just the infancy.

I was adamant that for some hardcore Resolve users like myself, who do all the things around grading (and some grading from time to time), I'd love for Resolve to evolve more into this one place for all needs of edit, grade, finishing and vfx. But that would require a lot of work and r&d and I'm ok if it would cost extra. Maybe not 5000$ a year Flame extra but still.

People are leaving Adobe because of this kind of stuff not because it sucks...People keep forgetting this.

If you lock them off and then lock BRAW updates off too (since it doesn't work on older versions), what stops people from going back to Adobe or Avid and skipping buying BMD cameras?

And then the inevitable monthly subscription model...

At the end of the day, money always seems to win. And yes—he very clearly said “a paid upgrade,” no doubt about it. Now, if we’re talking about genuinely major, game-changing features, fair enough. But asking users to pay for bug fixes and minor UI enhancements? No thanks.

To be honest, I’ve seen this coming for a while, which is why I’ve been cautious about investing too heavily in Blackmagic’s outboard hardware. The reality is, independent filmmakers are among the lowest-paid creatives in the industry—they do it for the love of the craft, not the money. So if you’re going to shake things up, the reasons had better be pretty compelling.

If someone is debating Adobe vs Blackmagic purely based on economic reasons, then I gotta tell you - these two solutions are not even in the same realm of product quality. I can work in Resolve whole week and not have it crash on me (unless I do something obviously stupid), where in Adobe it's workarounds on top of workarounds in-between crashes.

So now I'm stuck not updating firmware on my cameras? Gee, I'm sure happy about that. That will make me wanna buy more BMD hardware in the future.

People were happy to shell out for expensive hardware knowing the software that came with it would work for free.

Grow up.

Bot the camera and software will always work for free.
Only if you want something new like new technology, they may cost.

Tell you what. Next time you deliver a video, how will you feel if the customer wants free re-edits for life?

[

Grow up.

Oh wow, what a professional interaction.

Why don't you take your lollipop and get back to where you belong, in kindergarden.

What are you like, 5?

Also when I will start selling hardware with my video edits that only work on said hardware then yes, I will expect customers to come back for free edits. Its called support.

[
Grow up.

Oh wow, what a professional interaction.
Why don't you take your lollipop and get back to where you belong, in kindergarden.
What are you like, 5?

Your behaviour prompted my comment, which from your response, seems justified.

If someone is debating Adobe vs Blackmagic purely based on economic reasons, then I gotta tell you - these two solutions are not even in the same realm of product quality. I can work in Resolve whole week and not have it crash on me (unless I do something obviously stupid), where in Adobe it's workarounds on top of workarounds in-between crashes.

I haven’t used Premiere in a while and vastly prefer Resolve to it. That said crashing is only one of many ways to measure quality. There are quite a few measures in which Resolve is sorely lacking. I hope for these to be addressed but I’ve been living in Resolve since v16 and so far they have not. Again I far prefer Resolve to Premiere but to me it’s frustrating how much quality I have to sacrifice when living in it.

[
Grow up.

Oh wow, what a professional interaction.
Why don't you take your lollipop and get back to where you belong, in kindergarden.
What are you like, 5?

Your behaviour prompted my comment, which from your response, seems justified.

We shall see what is justified and what isn't.

It seems you cannot handle a debate and you de-evolve into personal attacks.

Hopefully the rules of this forum will prevail.

In the meantime, keep your foul language and foul attitude away from me. Funny how it's always the aggressor that finds excuses to justify their behavior.

[
Grow up.

Oh wow, what a professional interaction.
Why don't you take your lollipop and get back to where you belong, in kindergarden.
What are you like, 5?

Your behaviour prompted my comment, which from your response, seems justified.

This interaction provoked me to read back and see the whole thread between you two that prompted it. I must admit that in this case it looks to me like jamedia shot first.

Now though it’s gotten unhinged on both sides.

Perhaps read back through the whole discussion and see what you think?

I haven’t used Premiere in a while and vastly prefer Resolve to it. That said crashing is only one of many ways to measure quality. There are quite a few measures in which Resolve is sorely lacking. I hope for these to be addressed but I’ve been living in Resolve since v16 and so far they have not. Again I far prefer Resolve to Premiere but to me it’s frustrating how much quality I have to sacrifice when living in it.

I agree - don't know about Premiere (if anything I use After Effects more often), but I still can't believe we don't have as many naming tokens in deliver tab as in AE. I need my [yy][mm][dd] etc NOW.

This interaction provoked me to read back and see the whole thread between you two that prompted it. I must admit that in this case it looks to me like jamedia shot first.

Now though it’s gotten unhinged on both sides.

Perhaps read back through the whole discussion and see what you think?

If you ask me, all I see is a toxic guy that got called out for being toxic. I have reported the posts and will move unto blocking him.

I really don't have time to argue with toxic individuals and haven't done anything to deserve being trash talked to and for sure won't allow it.

LOL. I can't believe anyone complaining about paying for an upgrade for Resolve. Are you a Pro?

During my Pro days working on tape, I had to buy 3 BetaSP VTR's for A/B roll. A Convergence 95+ editor. Mixers, etc. for $75,000. A new Sony BetaCam for $23,000. No complaints. Made good money and had happy clients.
Resolve is a steal. Free version is fine for non-pros, etc. $298. for Studio is amazing.

Stop complaining and get to work.

"Small Fee", not subscription to do with Resolve.
Nothing about the cost of AI generative images/fill via BM Cloud using server processing.

People are leaving Adobe because of this kind of stuff not because it sucks...

Adobe sucks becouses they dont allow you to own the software, they basicly rent you the software! So once your susbscription expire, the software does no work anymore! With other companies, once your susbscription is expired, the software continue to function normaly. You just dont get the latest update unlesss you renew the subscription.

So Adobe sucks big time and I hate it.

People are leaving Adobe because of this kind of stuff not because it sucks...

Adobe sucks becouses they dont allow you to own the software, they basicly rent you the software! So once your susbscription expire, the software does no work anymore! With other companies, once your susbscription is expired, the software continue to function normaly. You just dont get the latest update unlesss you renew the subscription.

So Adobe sucks big time and I hate it.

And you want BMD to go down that road as well? Remember up to CS6 Adobe was also a update if you want to model until it wasn't. And the difference is, Adobe didn't lure you by selling you hardware to go hand in hand with the software.

What the BMD guy said in the video about not alienating people better be true.

Grant has often said he hates the Adobe model.

Grant has often said he hates the Adobe model.

Grant also said he hates generative AI and won't add any of that into Resolve yet here we are.

[Peter Chamberlain]

"Small Fee", not subscription to do with Resolve.
Nothing about the cost of AI generative images/fill via BM Cloud using server processing.

This Q&A explains it clearly.

I'm locking the thread as there are too many inflammatory comments.