Missing “Swap Timeline and Source Viewer” Option in DaVinci

Hi Blackmagic team,

first of all, thanks for the hard work on DaVinci Resolve 20 — there are some fantastic new features, and I’m excited to explore them further.

However, I noticed that the option to swap the Timeline and Source viewers, previously found under "Timeline" (or your own shortcut), seems to be missing in the current beta. For someone like me, this is a crucial part of my workflow.

I regularly work with multiple timelines — creating dedicated Source Tape Timelines for selects, which I then use to build my First Draft Timelines. Being able to swap the viewers helped me navigate and compare timelines much more efficiently. Without this feature, the workflow becomes significantly more difficult and much less intuitive.

Could you please let me know if this functionality will return in the final version? Or is this a permanent change? Or did i miss something and it changed location?

Thanks in advance — and again, great job so far with Resolve 20

Best regards,
Max

You can now put the Source Viewer into Source Tape (from Cut page) or Timeline mode. Try those out.

I think this was intentional. The Timeline can now be loaded to the Source Viewer, and you should see the Timeline icon in Blue. I recommend re-mapping the Shift+Q key between the Source Clip and the Timeline, and use the default Q key to swap between the Source Viewer (second timeline) and the Timeline viewer (first timeline).

The keyboard shortcuts & menu items may have changed, but the swapping functionality remains, and has been significantly improved. (e.g. Blue playhead for read-only source timeline, red for "regular" edit timeline - helps to easily identify which one is being shown.) Also works with multiple tabbed timelines if you like to do that.

You can look up my other posts for an example of doing this with keyboard shortcuts, read the DR 20 "new features" guide, or just dig around until you figure it out... it's all there, just maybe not quite how you used to use it in DR19.

There is similar functionality with 'Open in Timeline with Source Viewer'. The huge drawback, for me, is that it doesn't work in single viewer mode. "Swap Timeline and Source Viewer" was much better. I hope they either fix 'Open in Timeline with Source Viewer' or bring back 'Swap Timeline and Source Viewer'.

I too hope they make the new feature work with single viewer mode. It’s pretty useless in a laptop the way it is.

I too hope they make the new feature work with single viewer mode. It’s pretty useless in a laptop the way it is.

In your opinion, what doesn't work in single viewer mode, Joe? For me, I find that not being able to load the current timeline directly into the source viewer is the sticking point - having to locate the timeline in the media pool and then using the 'open in source viewer' is the workaround but very kludgy. Seems like it should be a Timeline menu option - is that what's missing?

Also - and I can't believe I'm asking this, is there a way to mark in/out in a timeline and make a new timeline from just the mark in/out range? I thought there was (almost like a subclip) but I can't find it. Must be losing my mind. I'll go ask Perplexity after posting this, lol.

Add - looks like I can convert an in/out range to a compound clip - not seeing the sub-timeline option yet and Perplexity lied to me, lol.

I made a post about the single-viewer problem here viewtopic.php?f=40&t=219119

If you use 'Open Timeline with Source Viewer' and then switch to single viewer mode, it exits source Timeline Mode. It even writes the exit event into the history.

resolve_exit_source_timeline.png (2.46 KiB) Viewed 2171 times

There's no way to use 'Open Timeline with Source Viewer' and single viewer mode together.

But if you are in single viewer mode, there's no problem opening a timeline in source viewer, correct?

I too hope they make the new feature work with single viewer mode. It’s pretty useless in a laptop the way it is.

In your opinion, what doesn't work in single viewer mode, Joe? For me, I find that not being able to load the current timeline directly into the source viewer is the sticking point - having to locate the timeline in the media pool and then using the 'open in source viewer' is the workaround but very kludgy. Seems like it should be a Timeline menu option - is that what's missing?

Hi Steve!
Sorry it’s been a bit since I’ve gotten back to you. I think they’ve done a lot right with this oft-requested feature and it’ll hopefully be even better than Avid’s when they’re done. But what’s hurting for me right now is that it’s hard to enter from the keyboard, and it’s putting specific Timelines into a mode rather than having a Source Viewer representation in the Timeline. The latter requires some explanation so I’ll start with the former.

If I’m in a Timeline and I use the F command I get sent to the Source Viewer with the original of the clip under the playhead loaded. If I double-click I get the actual modifiable clip in the Source Viewer. I want this behavior with Timelines.

Let’s suppose there’s a command in Keyboard Customization called Open Timeline in Source Viewer. I want to map that to a key and, when I’m in a Timeline and I press it, the current Timeline - or a Nested Timeline if my playhead is over one - gets loaded into the Source Viewer.

You - or BMD - might say “wait a minute - you can’t have the current timeline loaded into the source viewer! That’d mean you have the current timeline open in two places!” To which I’d say “yup! Just like you have when you use the F key. Heck, when you double-click - which I wish were also a command in Keyboard Customization so I could map it - you have a MODIFIABLE version of the clip open in two places!”

“But,” BMD might say, “are you asking for TWO tabs for the same Timeline to be open in the Timeline Panel?” To which I’d say, “not quite. I’m suggesting that there be a SOURCE VIEWER TAB in the Timeline panel that might have the same Timeline open in it - but it would be quite distinct from the normal Timeline version. I’d be happy to elaborate on this if BMD were interested.

I made a post about the single-viewer problem here viewtopic.php?f=40&t=219119

If you use 'Open Timeline with Source Viewer' and then switch to single viewer mode, it exits source Timeline Mode. It even writes the exit event into the history.

resolve_exit_source_timeline.png

There's no way to use 'Open Timeline with Source Viewer' and single viewer mode together.

All true, except this, oddly, does seem to work fine....

When you issue a "swap" command from record to source, the viewer changes, but the timeline does not swap. If you then press the source T/L icon on the viewer, it will exit.

However, if you use a hotkey mapped to "toggle source timeline" (the same function) then press this key, it will swap the timeline and you get blue playhead too.

So to reiterate: In single viewer mode, each time you swap from rec to source, you need to press a "toggle source timeline" hotkey to get the timeline to follow. (when you swap back, you don't)

Counterintuitive, I know, but seems to work properly. i.e. editing from in/outs, blue cursor, patching...

Work for you?

Please BMD don’t let this release be another raft of “it works if you touch it just this exact way and no other” features. It really doesn’t have to be this way.

With regard to your earlier response, Joe, I'd like to be able to load the current timeline into the source viewer to make it easier to copy portions of it to elsewhere in the timeline. The source viewer is read-only so it's not really two instances of a writable timeline. Of course, you can do this manually by dragging the timeline into the source viewer (from the media pool) and then invoking the source timeline view but I would like a timeline menu option to perform this step in one action (or keystroke) for the current timeline.

But if you are in single viewer mode, there's no problem opening a timeline in source viewer, correct?

I couldn't get it to work like that either. When you load the timeline into the source viewer the first time, it turns the icon blue to indicate that it is in source viewer mode. If you then switch to the timeline viewer and back to the source viewer, the icon is no longer blue, indicating that it is no longer in source viewer mode.

But if you are in single viewer mode, there's no problem opening a timeline in source viewer, correct?

I couldn't get it to work like that either. When you load the timeline into the source viewer the first time, it turns the icon blue to indicate that it is in source viewer mode. If you then switch to the timeline viewer and back to the source viewer, the icon is no longer blue, indicating that it is no longer in source viewer mode.

True but it's a keystroke away from turning it into source viewer mode again (assuming you setup a shortcut in the keyboard preferences). I've been playing with this for a bit and it's a pretty smooth workflow to move from source viewer back to normal source and then back to timeline in single viewer mode. If I could load the current timeline into the source viewer with a keystroke, that would complete me

The main thing design wise I’m missing is having a dedicated timeline tab for the viewer rather than having timelines switch into viewer mode. I do love the blue thing though!

Forgot to say that I totally agree with Steve here that this too is essential. And easy I think!

If I could load the current timeline into the source viewer with a keystroke, that would complete me

In theory I also want to open the nested timeline that’s under the playhead if such exists. I say in theory because nested timelines are still not reliable enough to use.

I logged on to post about this and realised there's already conversations going on about it. I'll chime in:

The new implementation seems a regression more than progress to me, for two main reasons:

1. Source timeline is locked. Why would this be a plus?? - Say I've loaded a 'Selects timeline' in the viewer. I used to be able to make changes to it as I navigated it: trim, reorganise, re-populate, move used clips to track 2 to identify them at a glance, etc. Why is it better to have a locked timeline when having access to both gives you more flexibility?

2. Doesn't work in single viewer mode - this has already been discussed in this thread. The workaround is to set a new shortcut to enter "source timeline" (blue). What used to take one key stroke now takes two every time you swap. That's not a workflow improvement in my opinion.

Resolve 20 is incredible, and of course the engineering team has made incredible progress which is much appreciated. I think the solution would be to have both: the new "source timeline" button AND the old Swap Timeline/ Source Viewer". Then we can choose. If that's too complicated and only one can be implemented, I'd say the old version is much better hands down.

My two cents.

Hi Jose,

If you don't want a locked source timeline, and you also want to work with one viewer, couldn't you just load two timelines (or more) in tabs and then use a "next timeline" hotkey to swap ? Seems to me this mimics the old version quite closely.


... On second thought: probably this won't work for you if you use IN/OUT editing, but maybe OK if you use copy/paste editing.

I'm also unclear as to what the advantage over the old method is. I think there must be something because many people seem very pleased with it, especially ex-Avid users. The guy who runs the Creative Video Tips channel also seemed impressed with it. He has some tutorials on the previous method.

I'm also unclear as to what the advantage over the old method is

Easy:

Two viewer swapping with clear delineation between source & rec (i.e. blue playhead vs red playhead). It is agile, accurate (with patching too), stable...

For me, the old system was horribly confusing, slow, ... basically totally unusable. Never knew where I was or where things were going to appear on edit. The new one is fantastically better !

Interesting how there are such vastly differing point of view / opinions. Must make BM devs job a bit of a nightmare.

I don't really get the new feature at all... before I just could load multiple timelines, swap between both viewers and cycle from which timeline I'd want to edit to another timeline. Now I have to "prepare" the timelines to be in source, but swapping timelines changes whether they are in source mode or not?! When switching to source tape it closes all my tabbed source timelines and I have to reopen them again, but be careful to not open them regularly because then they get opened in both modes (source and normal) and I can't easily cycle through multiple timelines. Also the swapping is MUCH slower compared to 19. Playhead jumps around and doesn't match and also match frame and reverse match frame don't work anymore except for clips. You were able to do a match frame from timeline to timeline which is NOT possible anymore for some reason. I was forced to update to 20 because another editor had sent me a project file which I couldn't open in 19. Now I'm sitting here for three hours already trying to get my workflow going and I simply just can't.

edit: There is one major improvement though since you don't have to switch timeslines anymore to make edits, that's great, please keep that, reminds me of my long gone avid days

edit2: Okay, after a Resolve restart the match frame works as expected now, phew!

It’s much closer but, as you’ve noticed, there are a few issues that can be very detrimental to some workflows.

It’s much closer but, as you’ve noticed, there are a few issues that can be very detrimental to some workflows.

It just opened a gazillion timelines when I clicked through a few clips at different places, when leaving source tape it closed ALL my timelines. Is there an official manual or workflow for this? Right now I can't find a way to get in the flow with this cumbersome handling of timelines and clips

also newly opened timelines are opened regularly while single clips are opened as source timelines with new tabs for every single clips... how are you supposed to work with this?

I haven’t gotten it to work yet either. Many people seem to be delighted so I can only imagine that there is a path. I hope it’s close enough to my preferred workflow that I can use it.

It’s probably in a manual by now - I didn’t find it a while ago when I looked but will look again. Maybe someone will point us to it here - hopefully without ridiculing us.

I haven’t gotten it to work yet either. Many people seem to be delighted so I can only imagine that there is a path. I hope it’s close enough to my preferred workflow that I can use it.

It’s probably in a manual by now - I didn’t find it a while ago when I looked but will look again. Maybe someone will point us to it here - hopefully without ridiculing us.

I have also noticed that you can't disable tracks for source patching. I have audio on several tracks but only need a specific one but it always inserts all of them...

I have audio on several tracks but only need a specific one but it always inserts all of them...

Jakob, try disabling Edit menu > Edit Options > Automatically Create Tracks on Edit, that should get you there.