Canon R5 8K RAW Video and 4K MP4 Proxies: Discordant Renders

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markr041

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Canon R5 8K RAW Video and 4K MP4 Proxies: Discordant Renders

PostWed Jun 16, 2021 11:57 pm

The Canon R5 has the capability to shoot 8K RAW video and 4K proxies simultaneously. I shoot in Clog 3. Resolve has no problem linking the RAW clips to the proxies. And editing and coloring with the proxies goes smoothly and easily.

My workflow is to use Resolve Color Management, setting the input gamut to Canon cinemacolor and the input gamma to Clog3, which is what the video was shot at and is in the metadata of the RAW clips. The output is set to the default REC709.

I edit using the proxies until they look great. Then I render using the original RAW clips at 8K from the same timeline. The problem is that the rendered video based on the RAW clips seems to not have incorporated the color changes I made - the rendered video using the proxy clips looks fine, the rendered video using the RAW clips instead of the proxies does not.

What is going on?
Mark Rosenzweig
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Jim Simon

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Re: Canon R5 8K RAW Video and 4K MP4 Proxies: Discordant Ren

PostFri Jun 18, 2021 3:04 pm

I can't think of anything that might cause that.

If you disable Proxies under the Playback menu so that the original clips are used, what do you see on the Color page?
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markr041

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Re: Canon R5 8K RAW Video and 4K MP4 Proxies: Discordant Ren

PostFri Jun 18, 2021 11:59 pm

Jim Simon wrote:I can't think of anything that might cause that.

If you disable Proxies under the Playback menu so that the original clips are used, what do you see on the Color page?


Yes, when looking at proxies, looks just like I want. Then simply uncheck use proxies and it does not. Here are the screen grabs:

Proxies 1.jpg
Proxies 1.jpg (970.42 KiB) Viewed 277 times


RAW 2.jpg
RAW 2.jpg (985.36 KiB) Viewed 277 times
Mark Rosenzweig
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John Paines

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Re: Canon R5 8K RAW Video and 4K MP4 Proxies: Discordant Ren

PostSat Jun 19, 2021 2:28 am

How do the images compare before you grade them? Are they identical? One possibility is that color management is automatically assigning an input color space value to the raw clips which isn't identical to what you're setting manually to the proxies.

You might also want to consider not grading proxies. They're what? 8-bit and highly compressed? Does that make sense, when you have the raw footage available? Is the Canon raw unplayable/unworkable on your system?

Also, have you set data levels of the clips to "full", for both? AFAIK, Canon log expects "full", not video levels.
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Jim Simon

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Re: Canon R5 8K RAW Video and 4K MP4 Proxies: Discordant Ren

PostSat Jun 19, 2021 2:00 pm

John's idea is a good one. As the proxies are created in-camera and not natively within Resolve, I wonder if they don't share the same color profile.
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markr041

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Re: Canon R5 8K RAW Video and 4K MP4 Proxies: Discordant Ren

PostSun Jun 20, 2021 7:17 pm

Jim Simon wrote:John's idea is a good one. As the proxies are created in-camera and not natively within Resolve, I wonder if they don't share the same color profile.


Yes. But the proxies are made in the camera with the same profile as the RAW. So, the metadata of the RAW and proxy clips should contain that profile. The question is what settings in Resolve have to be chosen so they match in the editor. Getting a solution to the problem is why I posted, after showing what the issue is.

Meanwhile, when one makes "optimized" media within Resolve from the RAW clips, editing with those "proxy" clips results in exactly the same looks for the RAW and the proxies. So, that works very well.

The problem is that creating proxy media from 12bit RAW clips within Resolve takes a very, very long time. It is not practical, and having proxies from the camera ready to go must be the solution if only someone understood how to make them match.

And, no, directly editing the 12bit RAW files without proxies or "optimized" media is impossible.
Mark Rosenzweig
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Jim Simon

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Re: Canon R5 8K RAW Video and 4K MP4 Proxies: Discordant Ren

PostMon Jun 21, 2021 3:20 pm

markr041 wrote:the proxies are made in the camera with the same profile as the RAW.
What you're reporting here suggests otherwise, though.

Maybe run an experiment in a new project. Import the same clip twice, one RAW one Proxy. (But don't link it as a proxy. Treat it as a regular clip.)

If memory serves, you won't need to set an Input Color Space for the RAW, so try different settings for the Proxy to make it match.

Report back.
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markr041

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Re: Canon R5 8K RAW Video and 4K MP4 Proxies: Discordant Ren

PostMon Jun 21, 2021 10:06 pm

Jim Simon wrote:
markr041 wrote:the proxies are made in the camera with the same profile as the RAW.
What you're reporting here suggests otherwise, though.

Maybe run an experiment in a new project. Import the same clip twice, one RAW one Proxy. (But don't link it as a proxy. Treat it as a regular clip.)

If memory serves, you won't need to set an Input Color Space for the RAW, so try different settings for the Proxy to make it match.

Report back.


Thanks for answering. I figured it out; it is just a matter of how to use Resolve with RAW nd non-RAW proxy clips.

Both sets of clips do indeed have the same metadata settings. So, it is a matter of settings in the RAW tab.

The answer is that in the RAW tab to set each clip as Canon Full Resolution, Canon.cinema color gamut and Clog3. That is what was set in the camera. And use Clip Properties, not Project Properties.

In Project settings, just set it to Resolve Color Management, and nothing else.

Then the timeline looks exactly the same whether one is using the proxy clips or the RAW.

I do not know whether this is the best way, but it seems to work.
Mark Rosenzweig
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Jim Simon

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Re: Canon R5 8K RAW Video and 4K MP4 Proxies: Discordant Ren

PostTue Jun 22, 2021 4:54 pm

Hazaa! :D

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