Why Is Copy/Pasting Nodes so Hard?

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herein2020

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Why Is Copy/Pasting Nodes so Hard?

PostSat Jul 24, 2021 2:21 pm

Ok guys I just don't get it....why is it so difficult to simply copy and paste nodes in the Color panel from one clip to the next? It is so inconsistent that I simply give up and create a gallery image then apply grade.

I have tried everything....Select the first Node > CTRL A > CTRL C > CTRL V into the new clip; sometimes it works and sometimes it only updates the first node in the new clip. I've tried selecting the last node first (red box) then selecting the rest with the mouse > CTRL C > CTRL V into a new clip; sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I've also tried deleting all nodes in the destination clip first....that definitely does not work.

Why is this so hard? CTRL A > CTRL C > CTRL V when a node is selected is a universal key sequence everywhere else in every other application and within the Windows OS except Davinci Resolve. The only thing that works for me every time is creating a gallery image then applying grade...but sometimes I just want to copy and paste a few grades on a few clips and the gallery image is not the most intuitive way to me at times.

Is there some secret checkbox or way I am supposed to approach this that will suddenly make the copy/paste process more reliable?
Software: Windows 10 2004, DR 17.2.2 Studio
Hardware: HP Z4, Core i9 14 Cores@3.10GHz, 64GB of RAM, RTX 2080TI, NVME OS Drive, NVME RAID Array, SSD Cache Drive
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Jim Simon

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Re: Why Is Copy/Pasting Nodes so Hard?

PostSat Jul 24, 2021 3:01 pm

What is the goal here? Are you trying to copy an entire grade, or just one node?
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herein2020

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Re: Why Is Copy/Pasting Nodes so Hard?

PostSat Jul 24, 2021 10:31 pm

Jim Simon wrote:What is the goal here? Are you trying to copy an entire grade, or just one node?


My typical grade is 3 nodes.....Primaries, Curves, and False Color. All I want to be able to do is select all 3 nodes from a graded clip, copy them using CTRL C and paste them to an ungraded node using CTRL V. This works sometimes then sometimes it stops working for no apparent reason.
Software: Windows 10 2004, DR 17.2.2 Studio
Hardware: HP Z4, Core i9 14 Cores@3.10GHz, 64GB of RAM, RTX 2080TI, NVME OS Drive, NVME RAID Array, SSD Cache Drive
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Marc Wielage

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Re: Why Is Copy/Pasting Nodes so Hard?

PostSat Jul 24, 2021 10:51 pm

As far as I know, you can't select multiple nodes and then copy and paste them all into another shot. What you can do is paste them one at a time, or if you want to replace the nodes in a later correction with just those 3 nodes, you could select the new shot and then center-mouse click onto the old shot.

Another method is to use PowerGrades and grab a Gallery still of the setup you want to use. Center-mouse click onto the Gallery grade, and that entire correction will be applied to the new one. You can also append it by right-clicking. And you can drag the nodes one at a time.

There is value in using the exact same number of nodes on every shot in the timeline, and then copy that setup onto multiple shots. It also helps to label every node when using this Fixed Node Structure. By using the Color -> Ripple Node Changes to Selected Clips menu function, you can change identically-numbered nodes across many shots, even the whole project. But the node numbers have to agree on every shot -- that is, if you change Node #3, then Node #3 is going to change on every shot selected in this node.
marc wielage, csi • VP/color & workflow • chroma | hollywood
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herein2020

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Re: Why Is Copy/Pasting Nodes so Hard?

PostSun Jul 25, 2021 12:39 am

Marc Wielage wrote:As far as I know, you can't select multiple nodes and then copy and paste them all into another shot. What you can do is paste them one at a time, or if you want to replace the nodes in a later correction with just those 3 nodes, you could select the new shot and then center-mouse click onto the old shot.

Another method is to use PowerGrades and grab a Gallery still of the setup you want to use. Center-mouse click onto the Gallery grade, and that entire correction will be applied to the new one. You can also append it by right-clicking. And you can drag the nodes one at a time.

There is value in using the exact same number of nodes on every shot in the timeline, and then copy that setup onto multiple shots. It also helps to label every node when using this Fixed Node Structure. By using the Color -> Ripple Node Changes to Selected Clips menu function, you can change identically-numbered nodes across many shots, even the whole project. But the node numbers have to agree on every shot -- that is, if you change Node #3, then Node #3 is going to change on every shot selected in this node.


But that's the thing...starting with version 17 you can copy and paste multiple nodes to other clips, I do it all the time. If you have version 17 try it, select multiple nodes with your mouse > CTRL C > go to a different clip > CTRL V. It will work about 50% of the time. This was supposed to be a new feature for DR17 but it just doesn't work consistently.

UPDATE

OK so I think I've gotten a little further. If you click the first node in the new clip and press CTRL V...only the first node's color grade will apply and no new nodes will be brought over. If you click the clip in the timeline the same thing will happen...only the first node will be updated. But if you click the clip in the film strip then press CTRL V all of the nodes will be pasted from the source clip. This worked 3 out of 3x for me, I will see with my next project if this stays consistent.

A - CTRL V here will only paste the color grade to the first node
B - CTRL V here will paste the entire color grade as long as you selected all of the nodes in the source clip
C - CTRL V here will only paste the color grade to the first node

I love DR but things like this can be so counterintuitive and frustrating. Whatever you select and CTRL C then CTRL V should be pasted to the new clip no matter how you highlighted the destination clip. Also if you select a node in a source clip then press CTRL A it should select all of the nodes....instead it selects all of the clips; the selection process should be more context sensitive.

Node_Locations.jpg
Node_Locations.jpg (505.59 KiB) Viewed 341 times
Software: Windows 10 2004, DR 17.2.2 Studio
Hardware: HP Z4, Core i9 14 Cores@3.10GHz, 64GB of RAM, RTX 2080TI, NVME OS Drive, NVME RAID Array, SSD Cache Drive
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Peter Cave

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Re: Why Is Copy/Pasting Nodes so Hard?

PostSun Jul 25, 2021 6:55 am

The User Manual details all the copy/paste options in detail in Grade Management, chapter 139. It's got a LOT of different options to allow different methods to be employed.
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Marc Wielage

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Re: Why Is Copy/Pasting Nodes so Hard?

PostSun Jul 25, 2021 7:13 am

herein2020 wrote:A - CTRL V here will only paste the color grade to the first node
B - CTRL V here will paste the entire color grade as long as you selected all of the nodes in the source clip
C - CTRL V here will only paste the color grade to the first node

That's basically what I said, but in a different way.

What you can't do is -- say -- select five nodes out of 10, copy those to the clipboard, go to another shot, and paste just those five nodes. That does not work (yet), nor can you cut and paste Pre-Clip or Post-Clip grades (yet). It would be nice if selecting and pasting color correction nodes were like selecting and pasting words in a text document, but it's a little trickier than that. Don't underestimate the thousands and thousands of potential adjustments that are possible in each node. This is not as simple an operation as it appears.

My suggestion is you reassess how you're approaching color correction and find a method that can give you these same results. Again, a Fixed Node Tree approach can solve a lot of these problems. One secret is that you can use Color -> Ripple Node Changes to Selected Clips, and that effectively allows you to apply one node's color to dozens, even hundreds of shots. Do that multiple times, and you've basically cut and pasted several nodes to multiple shots. It's the kind of thing that takes longer to explain than it does to do.
marc wielage, csi • VP/color & workflow • chroma | hollywood
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Jim Simon

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Re: Why Is Copy/Pasting Nodes so Hard?

PostSun Jul 25, 2021 2:50 pm

herein2020 wrote:Whatever you select and CTRL C then CTRL V should be pasted to the new clip no matter how you highlighted the destination clip.
I disagree. The behavior you're seeing here is by design.

New in 17 is the ability to CTRL+C on a clip, and then copy that entire grade to another clip using CTRL+V. This allow folks without a panel to Copy/Paste whole grades without using the mouse.

So the Paste behavior intentionally varies whether you're selecting the clip, or a node, for the Paste operation.

Once the behavior is understood, it's pretty nice.
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matthoefler

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Re: Why Is Copy/Pasting Nodes so Hard?

PostSun Jul 25, 2021 3:20 pm

Jim Simon wrote:
herein2020 wrote:Whatever you select and CTRL C then CTRL V should be pasted to the new clip no matter how you highlighted the destination clip.
I disagree. The behavior you're seeing here is by design.

New in 17 is the ability to CTRL+C on a clip, and then copy that entire grade to another clip using CTRL+V. This allow folks without a panel to Copy/Paste whole grades without using the mouse.

So the Paste behavior intentionally varies whether you're selecting the clip, or a node, for the Paste operation.

Once the behavior is understood, it's pretty nice.


Don't listen to this retard --

You do know that you can copy and paste grades by selecting the clip you want to apply a grade to and then middle clicking the scroll wheel on the clip with the grade you want copied on the timeline right?
Last edited by matthoefler on Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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John Spirou

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Re: Why Is Copy/Pasting Nodes so Hard?

PostSun Jul 25, 2021 5:24 pm

Can you copy paste pre/post Group nodes and how?

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Marc Wielage

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Re: Why Is Copy/Pasting Nodes so Hard?

PostSun Jul 25, 2021 10:41 pm

John Spirou wrote:Can you copy paste pre/post Group nodes and how?

Not with the normal copy/paste command/control-C or -V. But there is a workaround: you can grab a Gallery still of the Pre- or Post-Clip grade (which names it with "Pre" or "Post" as a suffix), then navigate over to the new shot in the new group, and you can paste the Gallery Pre/Post-clip grade into the new Group.

If you just needed to use part of the Group grade on the new group, you could drag individual nodes over one at a time from the Gallery (using Display Node Graph), and that would give you the effect you need.
marc wielage, csi • VP/color & workflow • chroma | hollywood
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herein2020

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Re: Why Is Copy/Pasting Nodes so Hard?

PostSun Jul 25, 2021 11:24 pm

Peter Cave wrote:The User Manual details all the copy/paste options in detail in Grade Management, chapter 139. It's got a LOT of different options to allow different methods to be employed.


Thanks Peter, I just wish there were enough hours in a day to read the whole manual, but I did find the exact behavior that I observed an the full explanation on Page 2769 of the manual. If you CTRL V after selecting a clip from the Thumbnail Timeline it will paste the entire grade, if you select a node first it will only update the selected node from the source clip to the selected node in the destination clip.

Marc Wielage wrote:
herein2020 wrote:A - CTRL V here will only paste the color grade to the first node
B - CTRL V here will paste the entire color grade as long as you selected all of the nodes in the source clip
C - CTRL V here will only paste the color grade to the first node

That's basically what I said, but in a different way.

What you can't do is -- say -- select five nodes out of 10, copy those to the clipboard, go to another shot, and paste just those five nodes. That does not work (yet), nor can you cut and paste Pre-Clip or Post-Clip grades (yet). It would be nice if selecting and pasting color correction nodes were like selecting and pasting words in a text document, but it's a little trickier than that. Don't underestimate the thousands and thousands of potential adjustments that are possible in each node. This is not as simple an operation as it appears.

My suggestion is you reassess how you're approaching color correction and find a method that can give you these same results. Again, a Fixed Node Tree approach can solve a lot of these problems. One secret is that you can use Color -> Ripple Node Changes to Selected Clips, and that effectively allows you to apply one node's color to dozens, even hundreds of shots. Do that multiple times, and you've basically cut and pasted several nodes to multiple shots. It's the kind of thing that takes longer to explain than it does to do.


Actually the exact way that I want to work is possible, I just didn't take the time to try to find it in the manual or experiment to figure out the behavior. Page 2769 of the user manual explains what I figured out on my own...to get the functionality that I was looking for all I need to do is select the destination clip from the thumbnail timeline vs clicking a node in the tree. This works exactly the way that I want it to.

I almost never use more than 3 nodes since I'm not grading projects that require anything more than that, so this is perfect for me. I do still wish CTRL A when a node is selected would select all of the nodes in the tree but no big deal....dragging to select 3 nodes isn't that difficult now that I know how to consistently paste them to the destination node.

Everyone works differently and I know there are many other ways to achieve the same thing, but for me I like to use CTRL C > CTRL V sometimes, a gallery still if I need the grade throughout the project, and CTRL SHIFT = sometimes when I just need to quickly copy the grade from a previous clip. The local/remote grades, memory slots, and middle mouse click methods just don't fit with the way I like to work.
Software: Windows 10 2004, DR 17.2.2 Studio
Hardware: HP Z4, Core i9 14 Cores@3.10GHz, 64GB of RAM, RTX 2080TI, NVME OS Drive, NVME RAID Array, SSD Cache Drive
Media: 4K@60FPS 10 Bit 4:2:0 H.265 LongGOP, 4K@30FPS 10bit 4:2:2 LongGOP H.264

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